You know it would be interesting to have people pose certain questions directly to Byron Katie. Does she ever take questions publicly?

I'm going to be looking for these books, Corboy. Fascinating reading! Thank you for posting that.

Anticult said: One wonders if Byron Katie makes claims her followers will gain some type of supernatural power?
Does she claim to be able to "read your mind"?

No, she doesn't claim to read your mind, per se, because "can you absolutely know for sure what another person is thinking?" But, she does claim to know exactly how you feel because she has been there and your work is her work, and we are all the same. When we did an exercise around prejudice and racism, it became very apparent that she could not empathize with the black folks in the audience, and she angered several people by telling a black man that he was "nothing". Can you imagine this old white woman telling a very large black man that he is nothing, then feigning innocence... as the man forgave her, because she was Byron Katie.. and didn't mean anything by it?

She does generally act like she knows more about you than you do, because she's just like you and she's done her work. The thing about BK is, she doesn't have to tell you these things... it's all very subtle.

I read the book "Snapping" after The School, and I noticed this element to many cult experiences that people had in the book... They seemed to have supernatural-type experiences that really convinced them of the cult's validity. Well, I had experiences there where it did seem like BK was reading my mind in a supernatural way... and it freaked me out.

For the first few days of the School, I was one of her favorites. She treated me very differently than everyone else, and it made me uneasy. I felt like she hated me, but people would just walk up to me and say, "Wow, Katie really likes you", so she had obviously singled me out for whatever reason. Hatred or liking, I'm unsure of what it was, or why she did it.

It was sort of like... well, that moment in the "Lord of the Rings" movie where the elf-queen is talking to Frodo in his mind...??? LOL! That's the only thing I can think of to explain it. I would think a question, look up at Katie, and she would be staring right at me... and would nod "yes" as if she knew what I was questioning. That really did a number on me... and it all seemed to be pressuring me want to stop doubting her. But it was so weird... it made me doubt her more.

While her attentions were on me, there seemed to be something supernatural taking place, and it was really messing with my mind. I tend to believe that there are supernatural events in this world... some are good, and some are bad... and just like cult leaders... the bad ones masquerade as good. There are so many different energies in this world... and someone like BK, who has learned to manipulate them is evil, in my opinion. As weird as it may sound, I definitely think that there was something supernatural there going on that was elevating the mind control... and I think BK may have been controlling it. What is "it"? Some type of energy, I guess.

So, could she read our minds? It certainly seemed that way.

Personally, I believe we are all spiritual beings, and that spiritual/supernatural things are not foreign to us. A real spiritual experience doesn't feel weird, confusing, or unfamiliar to us... like the experiences in cults do. That element of "strange" and "inexplicable" to supernatural or spiritual things is usually what tips me off that something is not right about it. When that weird mind-reading thing started happening, I wanted to call home, change my plane ticket, and get the heck out of there. Oh... but I didn't have a cell phone (and the phones in the rooms didn't dial out!) I talked to my roommate about it, she didn't believe me, so I doubted myself and decided to stick it out.

Anyway, after a few days, I lost BKs favoritism because I stood up, looked her in the eye and said "Katie, you lie." (She invited us to criticize her. And, the fact that she didn't get defensive was supposed to prove to us that she was innocent of all accusations. Plenty of people had plenty to say, too.) She seemed unaffected, but she acted like I didn't exist for the rest of the School. Interestingly enough, I didn't have any more of those weird supernatural/spiritual experiences either.

I think that by inviting criticism, she has developed a sure-fire way to identify who is with the program, and who is not... she knows who give her attention to and who to leave alone... who is buying it, and who is not. So, yes, vlinden, you can ask her these things... plenty of people did. She's the master of diversion and evasion, though. And she just makes you feel like you're the biggest idiot on the planet if/when you question or criticize her.

For me, telling her that she lies... set me free. I saw her eyes when I said it. That was the moment that set me free from her grasp, I believe.

I feel rather embarrassed to admit all of this, but as long as I keep it to myself it still seems to have some power over me.

-jj

P.S. I like the suggestion to post things on the net where people searching for her can find them. Great idea! I'll see what I can do. I've actually thought of making an info. page about it... but will I get sued or something??? Ugh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2008 02:00AM by jj52.

It was sort of like... well, that moment in the "Lord of the Rings" movie where the elf-queen is talking to Frodo in his mind...??? LOL! That's the only thing I can think of to explain it. I would think a question, look up at Katie, and she would be staring right at me... and would nod "yes" as if she knew what I was questioning. That really did a number on me... and it all seemed to be pressuring me want to stop doubting her. But it was so weird... it made me doubt her more.

While her attentions were on me, there seemed to be something supernatural taking place, and it was really messing with my mind. I tend to believe that there are supernatural events in this world... some are good, and some are bad... and just like cult leaders... the bad ones masquerade as good. There are so many different energies in this world... and someone like BK, who has learned to manipulate them is evil, in my opinion. As weird as it may sound, I definitely think that there was something supernatural there going on that was elevating the mind control... and I think BK may have been controlling it. What is "it"? Some type of energy, I guess.

Man, I know how this kind of thing can head trip you.

I once spent a lot of time with a culty type of man who I had a tremendous connection with, and THE most bizarre synchronicities -- one of them being that his mother's name (first and middle) were exactly the same as my mother's, and it's a pretty unusual combination of names. The way I found about this was part of the strangeness because I saw his mother's first name signed on one of her paintings. And I thought -- oh, she has the same name as my mother! And then in mental blink of an eye, I knew that she had the same middle name as well, and that if I asked him, he would confirm it. So I turned to him and asked him what the middle name was, and he told me, and of course it was identical, and he smiled and said, "Your mother has the same middle name, doesn't she?" All of this came right after this man was trying to convince me that some of us are higher spiritual beings who are all part of the "Family of Light" and we reincarnate over and over again together in the same families and friendships, to help "do the work" (ooohhh, familiar!!) here on Earth.

I was kind of trapped in this guy's cabin in the woods for a few months during a heavy winter, so I was rather a captive audience for all this stuff.

But there was much more than this, strange telepathy and energies circulating between us that was palpable. He was also one of the most grounded people, oddly enough, that I'd ever met, in certain ways. He could build a house by himself -- I watched him do it. He could take a car completely apart and put it back together. He was a hunter. There was nothing woo-woo about him in his daily life, he hated hippies, he didn't like most people, actually.

So I suspended judgment on him for a while, and he was very kind to me and helped me during a bad time.

But . . . he believed the most far-out shit imaginable, often with no real proof of anything at all, and he wanted me to believe as well. I couldn't do it, and ultimately our friendship had to end because his craziness was too tiresome -- always having to question what he was saying, always having to check my own sanity and rationality.

I think at this point we have to realize that "supernatural" or "mystical" powers or abilities can exist within people who are not necessarily rowing with both oars in the water, who are not "holy" or pure, who have all sort of personality issues and character flaws. Weird, but apparently true.

Hell, my mother can read my mind, and she ain't no saint! =)

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jj52
I feel rather embarrassed to admit all of this, but as long as I keep it to myself it still seems to have some power over me.

I missed a day here so will be reading this thread later but just want to comment on the above. It's understandable to feel after-effects from the programming. The programming can go quite deep and can take a good amount of time to purge. I spent six days in an lgat (lifespring spinoff) "course" seven years ago and I *still* get a ZAP inside when I hear or use certain taboo words. In just six days internal triggers were linked up with certain words and implanted very deeply in me.

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vlinden
I think at this point we have to realize that "supernatural" or "mystical" powers or abilities can exist within people who are not necessarily rowing with both oars in the water, who are not "holy" or pure, who have all sort of personality issues and character flaws. Weird, but apparently true.

Maybe that's what all "supernatural", "mystical" power is: just derived from and manifestations of the fact that both oars are not in the water? And, just cuz you're weird doesn't mean you're holy. HA HA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2008 02:33AM by skeptic.

vlinden and skeptic,

Thank you so much. Ugh... what a relief! That feels better and more healing than anything concerning The Work and BK.

Sincerely,
jj

It sounds like Byron Katie is also using techniques from NLP, one called Matching-Mirroring to gain Rapport, which gives the illusion of being able to "read" someone's thoughts and feelings.
Notice that when BK turned off her technique, the feelings went away?
That sounds like NLP based hypnotic induction. [skepdic.com]

Also, she sounds skilled at doing Cold Reading. [skepdic.com]

As far as the ESP Mind-Reading stuff, all of that can be investigated, and has been, but its beyond the context of the thread and forum. But for anyone interested, here is a good link. (but I would suggest we try to stay on the topic of Byron Katie and her company, for clarity).
ESP
[skepdic.com]

Many of these New Age LGAT cults use hooks like supernatural powers, and the questions of Philosophy to draw people in. (like Scientology).
There is a new post in the previous page by a new person about that. (welcome!) You see, all of that is great! Its called being a curious human, and we can read good books, philosphy, science, art, and explore those ideas.
But we don't need to be scammed by some LGAT cult Guru over it!

Byron Katie takes normal human curiousity and perverts it for her own ends. Her own Ego-Worship and Money-Worship. Its so obvious, as its the exact same patterns many other groups use.
For example, The Byron Katie School (of mind-control), can easily gross $1.5 million dollars in ONE WEEK.
That is serious money, as she does not even pay her fake "STAFF", she charges them for the pleasure of working for her!
So how much does Byron Katie Inc gross a year?
25 million? More?

Some people will do pretty outrageous things for 1 million bucks, even $10,000. What will some people do for $1.5 million a week? 25 million a year?
And Ralpher said that Byron Katie is going to be "big" in the new age field...that means they are shooting for maybe 100 million bucks!?

It reminds me of an old thread I read here about the "Gentle Wind Project", which was another sleazy hubby-wife team. The wife said Space Aliens showed her how to make these fake "healing pucks" they sold for thousands. Totally weird stuff, crazy. Guess what? In the end, they were prosecuted and shut-down as the entire thing was a complete fraud. They fooled a lot of people, but it was a complete self-conscious fraud...and they are back at it with a new name and a new scam...

I see no evidence that Byron Katie is actually nuts. Quite the opposite. She may ACT weird and strange, but that seems to be Marketing, carving out a unique identity in the glutted New Age marketplace. You gotta be different to get some attention these days.

But they are running a large, international multimillionaire dollar money-making racket. Totally blatant.
Once they go "international" then money can be moved around for tax reasons, bank accounts in various countries, protection from liability, etc.

Its pretty clear that the "crazy-weird" is their schtick, their pitch, their uniqueness. It draws a certain type of person in, the type of person they want.

But it is mainly designed/evolved to destabilize people's sense of Self and even REALITY, so they can take over your life and mind. It flat out Thought Reform, in a highly systematic fashion.
Once they lose contact with reality, these folks can literally sell their house to get money to give to Byron Katie. Vulnerable people "lose it" and end up working for the culty LGAT for free, even worse, being charged money to work for the LGAT...this "crazy" stuff is clearly designed to take away people's sense of reality.

Its just a large, aggressive, well-organized, growing money-making scam, using every LGAT technique, and even brainwashing technique in the book.

[www.culteducation.com]

It reminds one of how NLP in the olden days had a technique allegedly from the "spy" community, that they used to destablize people's identities. Job #1 was to try to remove their sense of Identity by taking away Belief References, one by one. (they had an entire system for this). Remove enough of these, and the person can start to lose contact with reality, then you can begin to take over their belief constructs.

That is what Byron Katie is trying to do...clear the mind-slate, or at least mess it up, and then direct it towards her. Doesn't work on everyone, but it works on ENOUGH vulnerable people to bring in the millions. They don't need to get EVERYONE, just the vulnerable ones. Sick stuff folks, very sick stuff.

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The Anticult
Once they lose contact with reality, these folks can literally sell their house to get money to give to Byron Katie. Vulnerable people "lose it" and end up working for the culty LGAT for free, even worse, being charged money to work for the LGAT...this "crazy" stuff is clearly designed to take away people's sense of reality.

Its just a large, aggressive, well-organized, growing money-making scam, using every LGAT technique, and even brainwashing technique in the book.

Yeh. Why, she's just a "crazy" (i.e. harmless) little lady. Another scam technique, to disarm the wary. Crazy Katie. Yep. More marketing. She's no guru, just a crazy lady. Fear not. She's too crazy to slickly rob and scam you. As usual, NOTHING IS WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE.

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Sick stuff folks, very sick stuff.

INDEED!!!!!!!!

ok, just for my own dis-entertainment, I just read a bunch more Byron Katie interviews and writings.

This woman is NOT "crazy".
She is a highly-manipulative, highly-savvy, highly-aggressive.
She admits she has always been great at making lots of money, and also controlling people, even controlling them from her bedroom over the phone! I believe she could sit in her bedroom, and control a business empire over the phone...that I believe, that makes sense.

Al Capone did that too!
:-)

She is trolling and using "love" as a weapon against vulnerable people to suck them into her world, to then extract cash, worship and free labor from them, and who knows what else?? There is even much more to it...

She knows exactly what she is doing with all of her destablizing word tricks, complex mind-games, and cockroach stories. Very interesting she uses the cockroach metaphor (fabricated story) for her Self-awakening.

Stay far away from this woman, if you value your Mind and life, she can wreck your mind with her tactics.
This woman needs to be decontructed and publcially exposed for what she is, a blatant con-artist.

Anti-cult,

The more you deconstruct Byron Katie, the more I think you've got her nailed, and the more disturbing all of this becomes. I'd really be interested to find out exactly where she was supposedly housed while she was "crazy."

You may be absolutely right about the games Katie is playing, it sounds right on the money. And she didn't actually read jj's mind, but only mirrored, as you said.

I can see that you have no beliefs in anything metaphysical. I would feel exactly the same way if it weren't for my personal experiences. I've met two genuine psychics in my life (aside from my mother), one famous and one unknown, both remarkable. There is no way these people were frauds. They had never met me in their lives, they were able to see all sorts of personal details about my life that were not generalities. But still, they were not all knowing. For instance the famous one knew I was studying to be a pianist (no callouses on my fingers or anything to give this away), but he wrongly pronounced that I would, indeed, become one. I ended up giving it up some years later.

I also know there are people who have learned to manipulate energies for their own ego-driven purposes. It's a good thing to recognize that and beware of it. Some people are tremendously dangerous for this reason.

I drive this point home only because people should not become so starry-eyed over those who can do these things, read minds or see into someone's past, or move energy around with their hands. It doesn't mean they're holy. My ex parter of 6 years was a martial artist who could make his hands heat up like oven mits! Honestly I don't think these "supernatural" abilities are all that remarkable. There are many people walking around with them, not making a dime off of them.

Okay, that's all from me on this. I'm off to the beach for five days for some MUCH needed R&R. Adios, everyone!