Idiots
Manipulating
People
All
Crimes
Tollerated


--Ed

Hello! One of my very close family members is attending Quest training this week. When she told me about it, I was supportive, because I had NO idea what it was all about. I do not live in Utah and have never heard anything about it. (Does it seem like Utah is particularly susceptible to these things?) Yesterday, I spent the WHOLE day researching Impact and read every post on this thread. HOLY CRAP! I am really worried now! I am hoping that she will be able to listen to her instincts and get out of dodge! I have not been able to get ahold of her today. I'm not sure if the training is all day or if it starts after work. I don't want to jump down her throat and have her get defensive, I think that would make things worse. What can I do? Another family member and her husband freaked out when they heard about it and are now afraid they may have caused more damage by "driving her to prove her point".

Anyway, I appreciate all the previous posts...very informative!

This is in reply to dramamama. I've in your place only a few months ago. I had no idea either what my family member was getting into. You may not be able to stop them from completing Quest, but whatever you do talk them out of signing up for the next level - Liftoff. If you get this post before they go on Friday you may have a shot at stopping them as they absolutely have a horrible experience on Thursday. If this person is a child of yours you could put a stop on their credit card so they can't pay for another session. They will most likely sign up for the next session this Saturday before they go to graduation. They will tell you on Thursday night they won't sign up for another session, but by Saturday they will have changed their minds. They will pay $150 deposit for liftoff which is nonrefundable. When you do try to talk them out of it, know that they will most likely be totally against it. Make sure you do your homework and then present information in a nonconfrontational way. You can go to the better business bureau website and print off what they recommend (not to go unless you have seen a license psychologist). If you know any licensed psychologists ask them if they would recommend impact training (I talked to three different one who all said to stay as far away from impact as possible). If you happen to be LDS they advise against going to places like Impact. So I was able to pursued my family member from going by 1. Better Business Bureau 2. licensed psychologist recommendation 3. criminal background checks on the owners 4. advice by church officials against it. After two hours of discussion we finally made some headway and this family member decided against going. It was really tough to change their mind. We offered to pay the $150.00 nonrefundable deposit to get them not to go to liftoff. It was definitely worth it. This family member doesn't have too many bad feelings about impact training, but is super glad they didn't go to Liftoff.

Hi Dramamama,
As far as I remember, Quest starts at 3pm MST on the first day. When I went, it ended progressively later everyday, but I think we were let out around 11:30pm or midnight on the first night. The first two days are spent breaking the participants down, and then they spend Saturday building them back up. I believe that if someone leaves the training before it's finished (the sooner the better), it's less likely to "stick".

Yes, Utah does seem to be more suseptible to these things. As a California transplant, I've noticed that, too.

You're right that jumping down her throat could make things worse. Impact teaches (although they claim not to "teach anything", ha ha) that positive thinking will make your life all better, and that negativity is the enemy (funny again, though, because most of Quest is filled with yelling, screaming, name-calling and other very negative stuff. Impact only seems to have a problem with so-called negativity if the negativity is directed at them.) So if you were jumping down her throat, she may accuse you of being overly negative. The other thing is they create an us vs. them mentality. "Us" meaning Impactees who are now "enlightened". "Them" being all of the "poor blind souls" who haven't been through any trainings. Quest trainees are told they are not even allowed to discuss any part of their experience at Impact unless it's with someone who has been to Quest. So she may not talk about it much, except to try to convince others to go to try it out for themselves.

I would suggest still being very supportive and loving of her, without being supportive of the training. Telling her sincerely that you love her no matter what, would be very important. Impact likes to put up this front that they are a source of unconditional love (which is hilarious because it's so NOT unconditional), which creates a real sense of belonging with trainees. Make sure she understands that you and your family are on her side. If she knows she has other, much better sources of unconditional love, she would, IMHO be less likely to get sucked into the group dynamic. Also, if she ever feels wronged by Impact, she won't hesitate to come to you about it.

I think that another effective tool against the training is to get her thinking logically. If she is already into any new age ideas (ie. the book "The Secret", the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know", alternative medicine, belief in past lives, etc), this will be harder as Impact borrows from many new age philosophies. Impact doesn't allow you to question what they do. One of the rules is that you aren't allowed to ask the trainer any questions, only he can. If someone does manage to ask a critical question about the training, the trainer simply turns the question back on the asker by asking something like: "How is this issue you are having right now, a reflection of your life?" After the trainer turns the table on the asker, the asker will usually, eventually breakdown and find a way to relate their question to something traumatic in their life. By then, the asker has forgotten what the original question even was. So. many trainees are blindsided, don't think what's being said through, and accept what's taught. I would suggest getting the wheels turning in her head by asking her questions, as if you were simply curious, about the training. Since you've just read through this entire message board, that should give you some good ideas. "Why" questions would be especially good.
Here's some ideas off the top of my head:
"What did they talk about today?" Most likely, the answer will be, "I can't tell you." If not, that's a good sign since she's already not following their arbitrary rules.

"Why can't you tell me?" Most likely the answer will be something about her having promised not to , or that it might spoil it for you if you ever wanted to go, or that confidential information was shared and she doesn't want to betray her fellow trainees trust. If you break your promise to keep their rules, the trainer will ask something like "what was more important than your integrity?" or some other guilt inducing question, or perhaps even kick the trainee out (but not before screaming at them in front of the entire group), thus "losing their integrity", their dignity and their $500. . If you can imagine, even those who think the rules are silly, will keep them just to avoid the consequences.

By tonight she probably hasn't had much time to reflect on what happened today at impact. It might be good to introduce some opportunities for critical thinking by asking her more questions.
"Well, I wouldn't want you to betray the confidential nature of other's experiences, but I want to know what YOU did today." Again, it'll probably be answered with, "I can't tell you".
Then you ask leading questions like:
"Why were you there so late? Why can't the training be done during the day? Isn't it harder to think clearly when it goes on so late?"
"I've heard that in self-help groups in the 70's, the trainer would yell and scream at participants. They don't do that now, though, right?" The trainer does yell at participants in Quest, and that is one of the most shocking things to trainees on the first day. Although, it's implied later that it's tough love, it's really a way to gain control over the group and break participants down into emotional and fearful states.

Lastly, there are many people who go through Quest (and even Summit and Lift-Off), are super into it for a few months, and then it just eventually goes away. They go back to their lives as they were before they ever went to Impact. The stories told on this board are heartbreaking, but not necessarily precursors for everyone who goes through impact's doors. Going through those doors is a gamble, and I hope and pray that your family member is one of the lucky ones.

*hugs*

I want to share the email I sent to her this morning. I tried to be very non judgemental and loving. Let me know what you think...

"Hey! I just wanted to check in with you to see how your first night went.
How do you feel about things?

I think it's important, when learning new things, to trust your instincts
and your feelings. Don't let anyone tell you how to act, react, or how you
should respond to things. Trust yourself. Remember, all things that come
from Heavenly Father will make you feel loved and peaceful. Heavenly
Father wants us to feel good about ourselves. Don't let anyone make you
doubt yourself or feel bad about yourself. Just get out of it what's good
for you and leave the rest.

This is one of my favorite scriptures:

2 Timothy, 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of
power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

I think about this when I am feeling weak and afraid. It helps me remember
that those feelings do not come from Heavenly Father, but from the "other"
guy.

I love you so much! I hope you're having a good day!"

>>One of my very close family members is attending Quest training this week. <<

It's Thursday night, midnight as I write. All's quiet in our home here, but over at Impact it's FEEDBACK ARCS right now.

Earlier was Red/Black.

Some participants will not be back tomorrow.

Some left in the middle of the Feedback process, trailing TIT3ers chasing after them.

Some will never talk to there family member who told them about this ever again.

Most will be blissed out love puppies by this time tomorrow (Friday at midnight).

No one will be awake or aware enough to notice something is so false and evil there, at least not until some weeks or months have passed.

I pray for them all, every month when the cycle starts up again, for all the madness and damage done by these self-appointed, untrained,money-grubbing "trainers" and their doe-eyed unpaid staffs to: "Vanish and be healed!"

--Ed



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2008 02:09PM by Impacted.

dramamama:

Please avoid preaching and sharing your religious beliefs.

This is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.

I apologize. I didn't mean to be preachy. I just wanted to share the email I sent to my family member to get others opinions as to whether they thought she might take it the wrong way and get defensive.

This message board has been very helpful. The last thing I want to do is offend anyone.

dramamamma

army-of-me has given you advice that is good. Confrontation will make it worse. Be curious, tactful and patient and sincerely interested in what your loved one is experiencing. You are on the right track to full understanding of what you are up against.

Many of us appreciate your sharing of experiences. Expect some flack from you know who.

Quote
dramamama
I want to share the email I sent to her this morning. I tried to be very non judgemental and loving. Let me know what you think...

"Hey! I just wanted to check in with you to see how your first night went.
How do you feel about things?

I think it's important, when learning new things, to trust your instincts
and your feelings. Don't let anyone tell you how to act, react, or how you
should respond to things. Trust yourself. Remember, all things that come
from Heavenly Father will make you feel loved and peaceful. Heavenly
Father wants us to feel good about ourselves. Don't let anyone make you
doubt yourself or feel bad about yourself. Just get out of it what's good
for you and leave the rest.

This is one of my favorite scriptures:

2 Timothy, 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of
power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

I think about this when I am feeling weak and afraid. It helps me remember
that those feelings do not come from Heavenly Father, but from the "other"
guy.

I love you so much! I hope you're having a good day!"

Hi Dramamama,

I guess my one concern with your approach stems from Impact's use of religious doctrine to justify their methods. Encouraging your loved one to "trust her feelings" can, and likely will, be manipulated by Impact to justify much of what has gone on. Impact's major push in the Quest Training is to shut down the "Ego Mind" and begin operating "from the spirit". What this means to the unimpacted is that the Quest Training encourages people to avoid thinking rationally and rely only on feelings. The trainers are masters of manipulating feelings and the processes are set up to make the trainees emotionally vulnerable.

Army-of-me suggested that many Impact Trainees attend Quest, Summit and Lift-off without experiencing longterm damage. I have seen this many times myself and since it can be very difficult to pull someone out of Quest once they have made the conscious decision to stay, I would recommend encouraging your loved one to commit to wait on attending Summit. If you can convince her to put off attending, even if its only for a month or two, odds are she will become disassociated with the training and never go back. Attempting to get her to remove herself immediately will probably cause her to address an issue concerning you in the training which will probably lead to the trainers and staff attempting to turn her against you. One of the prominent Impact Trainers and staffers tried to tell me one time that I had repressed memories of abuses from my father. Since I cannot consciously remember my father ever laying a hand on me, or anyone else, this was so unlikely and stupid that even in my manipulated and emotional state I never bought into it. I observed similar interactions between trainers, staff and trainees regarding other family members who were opposed to the training and many of those individuals were not able to retain sufficient rationality to see through the lie. As a result, a number of families were divided over issues that, at least from my perspective, probably never even existed. My point in saying this is just to encourage you to be careful. Know that pulling your loved one out of Summit or Lift-Off is probably just as good as keeping them out of the rest of Quest and you have a higher probability of success if you approach the issue with some subtlety.

Best of Luck!