This forum provides an interesting sounding board for people who have been involved with LGAT's. Since most LGAT's, Impact in particularly, have a history of being very litigious (or at least threatening to be) it can be difficult for people who feel they have been harmed to express their feelings and meet others who feel the same way. While I don't agree with everything that is posted by the anti-Impacters, I can at least say that I believe them to be sincere. At times I have openly criticized Hopeful Soul (I probably will again) and sometimes I find Shadow's criticisms petulant and immature but at the end of the day I think everyone is just trying to voice their concerns and feel a kind of empathy that they will never get from friends or family who have not experienced the trainings.

As far as the pro-LGAT people are concerned, it would be nice to be able to converse with one who has retained at least a portion of both their sanity and integrity. We have had a number of one and done posters who have accused the anti-LGAT people of being at fault for the failings of the Impact Trainings. There have been a few others (Otter, Robert Paisola and boonetahoe specifically) who have demonstrated a tendency to fabricate evidence to defend their position. The others that we have seen have been like Hearts, who seems to be genuinely sincere but conditioned to the point that he/she doesn't see how they are evaluating Impact from a completely biased and impartial perspective.

I turned against Impact because, in my observation, their training failed to deliver what it promised. Trainees would commonly attend session after session only to see their lives get worse and worse. I observed the Impact Trainers systematic conditioning of people to constantly turn inward and blame themselves (and others outside of the training) for their failings. While this can be a healthy and effective way to deal with personal issues, the Impact Trainers take it too far and directly apply relatively sound logic in ways that are completely off the wall. The thinking seems to go that if the trainee is always in control of what goes on in their own lives then the training must never be at fault for anything. While I must ultimately believe that all people are responsible for what occurs in their own lives I saw Impact trainers and staff place themselves in positions of authority and offer unsolicited advice in some very delicate areas. When their advice backfired miserably the trainers and staff would point to some perceived error in the trainee’s execution of their advice in order to absolve themselves from any accountability for the trainee’s results. While much of the lower levels of the training are built on principles that I believe to be true, it is in the execution and application where the Impact Trainings ultimately fail.

I realize that most Impact graduates leave the Training feeling like they have had one of the most profound experiences of their entire lives. Growing up I heard a number of people tell me that marijuana "expanded their minds" and LSD, heroine or meth allowed them to access avenues of thought that I could never understand. In many respects I see the Impact Trainings as being similar to these narcotics, in the short term trainees seem to be happier and if they get off quickly they might not experience long term damage. The people that stick around for a long time become addicts. They talk about how great they feel only to have key aspects of their lives crumble around them over the weeks, months and years. I heard many people lament their negative situations but, just like the junkie who always takes another hit, these trainees would go back to the Impact Trainings center and experience a spiritual high that would temporarily cause them to forget their prior troubles. Like narcotics, Impact seems good in the short term as long as the trainee is able to put aside, forget or rationalize everything else that’s going on outside of their short term fix.

In the end time will tell if the training works or not. The difficulty in evaluating the results goes back to a lack of objective data combined with the tendency for long term addicts to rarely admit that they have a problem even if every aspect of their life screams that a change must be made. Apparently the short term euphoria combined with slow and steady brain damage make it very hard for people to ever recover. To his credit BooneTahoe has been the only pro-LGATer to attempt dialogue on any kind of logical level. While it seems apparent to me that he communicated dishonestly on that level, I do commend him for trying. In the end though boonetahoe has a vested financial interest in the success of LGAT trainings, especially Impact where much of his training's processes were stolen from, and as a result I suppose he will do or say anything to try and turn readers in his favor. Is there a pro-LGATer out there who is willing to address the many sincere and results based flaws that seem to exist in the Impact Trainings?

Former,

WOW. Excellent post. Your writing is full of clarity, percision and power.

One minor point to correct:

>>the end though boonetahoe has a vested financial interest in the success of LGAT trainings, especially Impact where much of his training's processes were stolen from, <<

This is only true in the sense that a thief who robs another thief's home has likewise commited theft.

GLF stole materials from Impact, most of which Impact had stolen from Lifespring, some of which Lifespring is apparently trying to reclaim ownership of, others of which Impact stole from Landmark Education (wouldn't it be great to have LE go after Hans?) and other of which were copied from books available at places like the Golden Braid bookstore.

So Boone and others like him defend their theft in a fog of, "But we don't know who the original owner was, we "can't" find out, so therefore we are not theives."

Sounds logical only to those caught up into the "don't make it mean something" mind-numbing haze of LGATs.

It's kinda like they're driving a car they know was stolen by someone, who stole it from someone else, who stole it from someone else, who took some parts from another stolen car and welded them on, and put a gloss of new paint on it -- and they actively do not want to know, or research, who any of the car they are driving really belongs to. Their desire to keep the car running ("for all the good we're doing") overwhelms all of that.

Thus Boone's defense of Impact. If he called Impact for what it truly is, what he knows it to be (namely the training equivalent of a stolen car chop shop) it would reflect rather badly on the Great Life Company he is so comitted to defending and in videos all over the Internet supporting.

Impact threatend a lawsuit of Harmony for using the Quest, Summit and Lift-off names. In reaction to that lawsuit, or at least coincident with it, Harmony put another new coat of paint on their stolen car -- calling it the Great Life Foundation with Quest turning into Awakening, Summit into Brilliance within, etc, etc. . .

It's generally known that Hans and Sally were Lifespring participants. But Sally and her business partner, and former Harmony Trainer Mike Cordell about 8 years ago right now, were also Landmark Education Forum participants right here in SLC (she bailed on the last 4 hours so as not to be listed as a Landmark Forum "graduate.") Much of her TIT II and TIT III was apparently written by her while she was a participant during that Landmark Forum and just after.

Hope someone at LEC is monitoring this . . . sends an LEC employee through . . . gets a deposition from Cordell . . .

----Ed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2008 03:10AM by Impacted.

I appreciate all of your responses and wish you luck. Thank you for your information. The training works for me. I enjoy staffing and enjoyed my trainings. I can't tell if in the future things will go sour but I am keeping an open and positive mind. :)

Have a great day!

~Hearts

>>It's kinda like they're driving a car they know was stolen by someone, who stole it from someone else, who stole it from someone else, who took some parts from another stolen car and welded them on, and put a gloss of new paint on it -- and they actively do not want to know, or research, who any of the car they are driving really belongs to. Their desire to keep the car running ("for all the good we're doing") overwhelms all of that.
<<

Just got a private message that this is what ALL businesses do. They revise others work, make slight improvements, change the special sauce a bit and keep making money, spy on each other, etc, etc. Burger King and Taco Bell got a lot of their ideas from McDonalds, who got it from Howard Johnsons or whatever . . .

So what?

None of these businesses are in the business of "training people about integrity," being their word, telling the truth, etc, etc. GLF/Impact say that is the business they are in while doing anything but either in or especially out of the training room.

--Ed

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Impacted
>>It's kinda like they're driving a car they know was stolen by someone, who stole it from someone else, who stole it from someone else, who took some parts from another stolen car and welded them on, and put a gloss of new paint on it -- and they actively do not want to know, or research, who any of the car they are driving really belongs to. Their desire to keep the car running ("for all the good we're doing") overwhelms all of that.
<<

Just got a private message that this is what ALL businesses do. They revise others work, make slight improvements, change the special sauce a bit and keep making money, spy on each other, etc, etc. Burger King and Taco Bell got a lot of their ideas from McDonalds, who got it from Howard Johnsons or whatever . . .

So what?

None of these businesses are in the business of "training people about integrity," being their word, telling the truth, etc, etc. GLF/Impact say that is the business they are in while doing anything but either in or especially out of the training room.

--Ed

That's an asinine private message that attempts to minimize Impact and Greatlife's lack of integrity by isolating a relatively minor instance of LGAT dishonesty without addressing the many more serious accusations. Con artists typically handle criticisms this way because they think they can deflect attention to a less serious and egregious violations instead of addressing the bigger issues that are largely indefensible.

My point in bringing up the stolen ideas is merely to point out that the common processes give all LGAT's a vested interest in defending each other because they all do essentially the same things. As a result no one affiliated with the management of an LGAT can have their word taken at face value because too many have track records of dishonesty and all of them have an incentive to defend the processes regardless of whether they work or not. Is there really someone dense enough to think that the common copycat practices that exist in some other industries absolve Impact and Greatlife of their ongoing misrepresentations of their product?

The pedigree of Impact certainly can be traced through a succession of other LGATs going back to Alexander Everett and his admitted sources. It appears to me that some of Impact’s more destructive stuff was corrupted from age old wisdom, given a new age religion twist and presented as truth to gullible trainees. One of the Werner Erhard aphorism is that “understanding” is the booby prize of the universe. If you take the book of Proverbs as an example of King Solomon level wisdom, classical poetic literature, withstanding the test of over 3,023 years and see what Impact has done with it you will see what I mean. The word “understand” and its derivatives are among the most common words in Proverbs. For example: “Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.”; ...”apply thine heart to understanding.; “Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.” ; “The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge; but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.”; and perhaps one of the most quoted proverb is: 4:7, “Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore, with all thy getting get understanding.”

Other word like right and wrong, heart versus mind, hope, etc, are slaughtered in the first hours of Quest in a way that dislocates long cherished references and bench marks in the “unfreezing” process where the trainee’s mind is reduced to mush and reconstituted and solidified in the Impact Process mold. Trainees begin to think and say, I am alive,” when they are really dulled into nonsense and foolishness, eschewing “understanding.”

After reading all of this thread, I am convinced that it is not in TIT/LMT that the most mind altering bad stuff is presented; it is in Quest especially, but also Summit and Lift-Off. I recently listened to a lot of nonsense from the mouth of an LMT III person. It sounded almost the same as the Impactian nonsense spoken by this same person after completing only some of the introductory core level courses.

I endorse the invitation of pro-Impact persons to post their experiences here. My experience from reading here is conditioned by the post that reminded us that we should not give credit to the rapist for wearing expensive, good smelling after shave lotion. I fail to be convinced that there is any redeeming value to Impact Training that would offset its destructive, mind bending, corrupting effects.

I endorse the invitation of pro-Impact persons to post their experiences here. My experience from reading here is conditioned by the post that reminded us that we should not give credit to the rapist for wearing expensive, good smelling after shave lotion. I fail to be convinced that there is any redeeming value to Impact Training that would offset its destructive, mind bending, corrupting effects.[/quote]

Makes sense.

TIT/LMT-I feel one of the biggest problems is you get these 'trained' people to go to the next level which they believe is next to ascension. I can't say that is true for everyone but for a grand majority. Then all this 'info' is crammed down their throats even if they have no idea what is going on. Then you have a bunch of people stuck between religions not knowing which way is up and using all their new vocabulary and info to create an idea of elitism. If the person is in a situation of being a coach or staff member they can manipulate the new 'lifters' into their own agenda. With the coaching and staffing you end up having the so-called blind lead the blind.
If you want to know what they teach in LMT take a look at the works of those who write about chakras and auras and lightworkers. The thing is they're taught in bits and pieces and out of context. What can anyone do with the information until they break free?

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Hearts5683
I appreciate all of your responses and wish you luck. Thank you for your information. The training works for me. I enjoy staffing and enjoyed my trainings. I can't tell if in the future things will go sour but I am keeping an open and positive mind. :)

Have a great day!

~Hearts

I guess the bottom line hearts is that the training is systematically designed to manipulate feelings in an effort to artifically create a feeling of euphoria while attributing all of the negative side effects to other influences. Until you can evaluate the merits of the training the same way that you evaluate other influences in your life (and you have already demonstrated a tendency to judge things inequitably) then you will continue to believe that the training is working even if everything else in your life goes to hell.

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formerimpactgrad
As far as the pro-LGAT people are concerned, it would be nice to be able to converse with one who has retained at least a portion of both their sanity and integrity.

-- do you really think that is possible, that a pro-LGAT still maintains any sanity or integrity? I mean, do they even share the same definition of the words "sanity" and "integrity?

Shad

“Words have power” is an axiom of Impact dogma. I agree with that to the extent that words have the power to cloud, confuse, mislead and control as Impact misuses them. Words also have the power to enlighten, clarify and define when used as Impact will not like. I remember sitting in amazement and disbelief at the ritualistic ordinances the Impact paid and volunteer “priests” were officiating in during the core training. I recall thinking that Impact really had a priesthood that runs the show, although they would not admit that. Where I have had a sort of breakthrough is in finally realizing that LGATs and especially Impact Trainings are really priestcraft

I must be dense and slow in the head to have not seen this reality sooner. It took a combination of personal experience along with reading the experiences of others on this thread to have an ah! moment on the word “priestcraft.” It fits Impact so nicely and explains so much of their dogma. The first dictionary meaning of priestcraft is: a derogatory reference to priests who use their influence to control secular or political affairs. The second dictionary meaning is the skills involved in the work of a priest. Companion words are intrigue, plot, and machination. Machination is scheming or crafty action or artful design intended to accomplish some usually evil end. Another use for “priestcraft” is a stratagem and frauds of priests or imposition of religious concerns. My choice for the most applicable use of the word priestcraft to Impact is: the management of selfish and ambitious priests to gain wealth and power or impose upon the credulity of others. Credulity is the readiness or willingness to believe, especially on slight or uncertain evidence. This fits Quest to a T.

So as the Chief Priest Hans goes through his artful machinations on blue flames, St. Germaine etc. the lesser priests support the whole thing by telling trainees that it is wrong to analyze, make comparisons, be in your head, listen to your ego mind and on and on. They pretend to keep trainees in their excellence, keeping their word, being accountable; all the while they are deluding, oppressing, and fleecing the trainee by imposing on their credulity.

On March 2 here The Shadow told Hearts 5683 to stop trying to get us to buy what the “Fake Messiahs” are trying to sell us. I have tried to make a similar point using the term “priestcraft” but ended up using a lot more words than Shadow. Impact will find it impossible to shake off either of these terms.