IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
Hopeful Soul
()
Date: August 16, 2007 09:01PM
Indoctrination vs, Training
Since this is an education forum, not a religious forum, a little latitude in discussion is needed to combat what is clearly a religious based indoctrination entity, Impact Trainings. They have chosen to proclaim ecumenical status, that is, worldwide or general in extent influence or application. Their deprivation of mental freedom offends not only all religions, atheists, but citizens of all persuasions. My objective here is to make an ecumenical statement in view of recent posts.
I know little of world religions, but I do know that they all have canonized literature of some form. Even Impact has that in things like that awful song about singing in the wind. I have used brief clips from LDS literature here in the past that I thought had an anti-Impact flavor. Actually I find all of these texts and the U.S. Constitution for that matter to have abundant anti-Impact literature. There is one more beautiful little piece of text that I think fits the time with this forum, wonderful SAMIZDAT, or self publishing irritant to Impact that it is. This comes from “Hymns of the Church…,” or what I call the fifth standard work. The words are by Susan Evans McCloud, in hymn 220, verse 3. It goes, “I would be my brother’s keeper, I would learn the healer’s art. To the wounded and the weary I would show a gentle heart.” Think of a Quest graduation. Were there ever a group of people, one hundred plus or minus in number, more wounded and weary than these? My biggest lesson from Impact is to not be confrontational to these souls. To the wounded and the weary, showing a gentle heart is the only way to go. Confrontation will surely make things much worse. They have lost, for a time at least, their power to think critically for themselves and make rational judgements. I could have quoted Steve Hassan on his experience with the Moonies. He says the same thing that I have said here in essence.
Hopeful
Since this is an education forum, not a religious forum, a little latitude in discussion is needed to combat what is clearly a religious based indoctrination entity, Impact Trainings. They have chosen to proclaim ecumenical status, that is, worldwide or general in extent influence or application. Their deprivation of mental freedom offends not only all religions, atheists, but citizens of all persuasions. My objective here is to make an ecumenical statement in view of recent posts.
I know little of world religions, but I do know that they all have canonized literature of some form. Even Impact has that in things like that awful song about singing in the wind. I have used brief clips from LDS literature here in the past that I thought had an anti-Impact flavor. Actually I find all of these texts and the U.S. Constitution for that matter to have abundant anti-Impact literature. There is one more beautiful little piece of text that I think fits the time with this forum, wonderful SAMIZDAT, or self publishing irritant to Impact that it is. This comes from “Hymns of the Church…,” or what I call the fifth standard work. The words are by Susan Evans McCloud, in hymn 220, verse 3. It goes, “I would be my brother’s keeper, I would learn the healer’s art. To the wounded and the weary I would show a gentle heart.” Think of a Quest graduation. Were there ever a group of people, one hundred plus or minus in number, more wounded and weary than these? My biggest lesson from Impact is to not be confrontational to these souls. To the wounded and the weary, showing a gentle heart is the only way to go. Confrontation will surely make things much worse. They have lost, for a time at least, their power to think critically for themselves and make rational judgements. I could have quoted Steve Hassan on his experience with the Moonies. He says the same thing that I have said here in essence.
Hopeful
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
SaneAgain
()
Date: August 16, 2007 10:53PM
Hopeful Soul, what (and who) are you actually talking about? Rswinters or the trolls and apologists who hang out here?
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
damagedbyassociation
()
Date: August 17, 2007 06:50AM
Quote
"damagedbyassociation"
On that note, acknowledging that I'm not moderating this forum, I would like to comment that a lot of communications that are posted here are bickerings about what other members are saying, as if we can't be understanding enough to give another member the benefit of the doubt, or we WANT to be quick to judge them (harshly) which dilutes the power and significance of this forum for me.
Since stating this, it seems a lot of people started reflecting about what they posted and offering explanations for the bickering. It was not my goal that anyone hold back any anger or otherwise harsh comments regarding Impact. I absolutely detest what Impact Trainings does to people, and especially what they decided to do to my wife, my children and to me - especially since my children and I weren't "voluntary participants" in their brainwashing, mind-controlling, verbally and mentally (minimally) abusive courses. I had merely observed that some people have perhaps been misunderstood on this forum, and giving these people (i.e., members of this forum who post their disgust of Impact) a break - who have a valid argument against Impact, would go a long way to really keep this about Impact! So, on that note, I would also be remiss to not thank all of you for sharing your experiences about how you've been able to find a way out of the hell you've been through, and for being so supportive when I really needed to find people that could understand my concerns, my anger and frustration and my feelings in general about this ugly thing called Impact.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: August 18, 2007 11:43PM
Quote
SaneAgain
Hopeful Soul, what (and who) are you actually talking about? Rswinters or the trolls and apologists who hang out here?
Thanks SaneAgain. The post in question did seem a tad absurd/pointless but I didn't want to be the Jerk that pointed it out (again)...
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
army-of-me
()
Date: August 19, 2007 01:41AM
Ugh, I remember standing up to "engage" and saying that I was having a hard time at the training because I didn't trust my feelings, I only trusted my logic. Justin told me that there was a "possibility" that I didn't know the difference between my heart and mind and that we were about to do an exercise that would "assist" me with my question. This is when we did the singing exercise. We were all to have a turn to sing that "awful song about signing in the wind", solo, acapella, with a microphone in front of a group of fellow trainees and staff. You had to sing it until you "got it right". Getting it right meant singing it sincerely, emotionally, passionately, etc. Each person probably heard the song 30-50 times and sung it themselves 1-3 times when the night was over. As far as I know, the only person who didn't sing was asked to leave. Here is an excerpt from the lyrics of the song (I added the italics to point out parts I thought were more cultish):Quote
Hopeful Soul
that awful song about singing in the wind.
Quote
song lyrics excerpt
In a moment of truth at the top of the hill
I open my arms and [i:f7d885f880]let go of my will[/i:f7d885f880]
And stand with my face to the wind
With the storm beating down [i:f7d885f880]on this sacred ground[/i:f7d885f880]
If I stand for the grace that I've known
For what I believe
Then [i:f7d885f880]I won't stand alone[/i:f7d885f880]
No I won't stand alone
According to freedomofmind.com:
These techniques aren't necessarily dangerous by themselves, however...Quote
freedomofmind.com
There are thousands of different "mind control" techniques which can be used for positive benefit. Some these techniques include: prayer, meditation, chants, singing songs, visualizations, affirmations, positive self-talk, breathing techniques, hypnosis, "speaking in tongues", ecstatic dancing, music.
When I asked Justin my question, he responded with an answer that left me confused and then distracted or diverted me by saying that our next activity had the "answers". This activity had nothing to do with my questions, but was successful in distracting me from my concerns.Quote
freedomofmind.com
Meditation techniques can be used to build awareness and self control, or it can be used as a way of "thought-stopping"-undermining independent thinking and reality-testing. For example, if a person is having doubts and questions about a leader's behavior, and meditates to get rid of "negativity", it might stop the person from taking necessary action.
That is the difference between the techniques being healthy and damaging. At impact, no one had a choice to participate at their own comfort level. It was used to also divert me from my concerns.Quote
freedomofmind.com
I personally enjoy the benefits of prayer, meditation, chanting, singing as well as self-hypnosis techniques. At my Jewish Temple people are free to participate at their own comfort level. A healthy skepticism toward dogma and exclusive elitism is encouraged.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
The Shadow
()
Date: August 19, 2007 02:28AM
hi, this is the first time for me at this section of the Forum, mostly I have stayed at one or two other...
but there seems to be a common thread running through most of peopl's comments and that is "we can't do anything about it because we are participating voluntarily"....
It was not until I attended one of the recruiting sessions for the THIRD time that I realized that my friend had ATTEMPTED to hypmotise me AT THE VERY FIRST "graduation" ceremony. That is one of the reasons I kept going back...I did not even know what was happening to me, but I am one of those people who are not susceptable to hypnosis, I don't know why some people are more easily hypnotised than other, but when I finally decided to listen to "that little voice" inside me, that was when I started doing research on "Landmark", and found it's connections to EST, and subsequently found this site.
Please everybody, realize this: these creeps are using our friends and loved ones to hypmotise us; and our friends and loved one don't even know that they are doing it. It is that insideous. We have been hyptomised WITHOUT OUR CONSENT, and in most countries that is ILLEGAL, and goes against our constitutional rights. We CAN do something about this! We have to get organized to make these creeps accountable for what they are doing.
but there seems to be a common thread running through most of peopl's comments and that is "we can't do anything about it because we are participating voluntarily"....
It was not until I attended one of the recruiting sessions for the THIRD time that I realized that my friend had ATTEMPTED to hypmotise me AT THE VERY FIRST "graduation" ceremony. That is one of the reasons I kept going back...I did not even know what was happening to me, but I am one of those people who are not susceptable to hypnosis, I don't know why some people are more easily hypnotised than other, but when I finally decided to listen to "that little voice" inside me, that was when I started doing research on "Landmark", and found it's connections to EST, and subsequently found this site.
Please everybody, realize this: these creeps are using our friends and loved ones to hypmotise us; and our friends and loved one don't even know that they are doing it. It is that insideous. We have been hyptomised WITHOUT OUR CONSENT, and in most countries that is ILLEGAL, and goes against our constitutional rights. We CAN do something about this! We have to get organized to make these creeps accountable for what they are doing.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
The Shadow
()
Date: August 19, 2007 02:42AM
CORRECTION; I was here once before, but it seems like such a long time ago, I forgot....
I would also like to add, that initially I did think that the particular LGAT group that I was exposed to (Landmark) has some merit, however, since May I have reversed that opinion. Some of the ideas they grab on to certainly have merit, (they have been copied from people who DO have integrity), but in the case of Landmark, the end does not justify the means. That is to say, the way they are forcing their message down the throats of unsuspecting individuals takes away from any good that might come out of these programs.
True Transformation DOES NOT happen over night, or over a period of months, true Transformation takes time and intelligent introspection... participating in life, not by been badgered and having other peoples notions rammed down your throat.
I would also like to add, that initially I did think that the particular LGAT group that I was exposed to (Landmark) has some merit, however, since May I have reversed that opinion. Some of the ideas they grab on to certainly have merit, (they have been copied from people who DO have integrity), but in the case of Landmark, the end does not justify the means. That is to say, the way they are forcing their message down the throats of unsuspecting individuals takes away from any good that might come out of these programs.
True Transformation DOES NOT happen over night, or over a period of months, true Transformation takes time and intelligent introspection... participating in life, not by been badgered and having other peoples notions rammed down your throat.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
army-of-me
()
Date: August 19, 2007 05:00AM
**URGENT**
One of my best friends is a photojournalist and she just called me said she is very interested in doing a story on "how (insert any LGAT here, especially Impact) ruined your life."
If Impact ruined or significantly altered your life, you would like a chance to be heard, and you are either in southern California or in northern Utah PLEASE PM me today or tommorrow. She needs to write up a proposal first and needs someone to do the story about, but the proposal is due in the next couple days. Please PM me if you have any questions, are interested or know someone who might be interested. Thanks so much![/size:240e344091]
One of my best friends is a photojournalist and she just called me said she is very interested in doing a story on "how (insert any LGAT here, especially Impact) ruined your life."
If Impact ruined or significantly altered your life, you would like a chance to be heard, and you are either in southern California or in northern Utah PLEASE PM me today or tommorrow. She needs to write up a proposal first and needs someone to do the story about, but the proposal is due in the next couple days. Please PM me if you have any questions, are interested or know someone who might be interested. Thanks so much![/size:240e344091]
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
SaneAgain
()
Date: August 19, 2007 05:57PM
Hopeful Soul wrote:
Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. It seems you are saying:
You learned great lessons on Impact.
The music was awful.
Disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan
The Ross Institute of New Jersey/May 2013
See [www.culteducation.com]
The inclusion of news articles within the Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) archives, which mention and/or quote Steven Hassan, in no way suggests that RI recommends Mr. Hassan or recognizes him in any way.
News articles that mention Steve Hassan have been archived for historical purposes only due to the information they contain about controversial groups, movements and/or leaders.
RI does not recommend Steven Hassan.
RI has received serious complaints about Steve Hassan concerning his fees. Mr. Hassan does not publicly disclose his fee schedule, but according to complaints Steve Hassan has charged fees varying from $250.00 per hour or $2,500.00 per day to $500.00 per hour or $5,000.00 per day. This does not include Mr. Hassan's expenses, which according to complaints can be quite substantial.
Steven Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One recent complaint cited total fees of almost $50,000.00. But this very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.
Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results..."
Steve Hassan has at times suggested to potential clients that they purchase a preliminary report based upon what he calls his "BITE" model. These "BITE reports" can potentially cost thousands of dollars.
See [corp.sec.state.ma.us]
Steve Hassan runs a for-profit corporation called "Freedom of Mind." Mr. Hassan is listed as the corporate agent for that business as well as its president and treasurer.
RI does not recommend "Freedom of Mind" as a resource.
RI also does not list or recommend Steve Hassan's books.
To better understand why Mr. Hassan's books are not recommended by RI read this detailed review of his most recently self-published book titled "Freedom of Mind."
See [www.cultnews.com]
Steve Hassan's cult intervention methodology has historically raised concerns since its inception. The book "Recovery from Cults" (W.W. Norton & Co. pp. 174-175) edited by Dr. Michael Langone states the following:
"Calling his approach 'strategic intervention [sic] therapy,' Hassan (1988) stresses that, although he too tries to communicate a body of information to cultists and to help them think independently, he also does formal counseling. As with many humanistic counseling approaches, Hassan’s runs the risk of imposing clarity, however subtly, on the framework’s foundational ambiguity and thereby manipulating the client."
RI has also learned that Mr. Hassan has had dual-relationships with his counseling clients. That is, clients seeing Mr. Hassan for counseling may also do professional cult intervention work with him.
Professionals in the field of cultic studies have also expressed concerns regarding Steven Hassan's use of hypnosis and Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).
Based upon complaints and the concerns expressed about Mr. Hassan RI does not recommend Steve Hassan for counseling, intervention work or any other form of professional consultation.
If your church took over Impact and changed the music, would that solve the problem?
I notice you also regularly post updates on Impact registration figures. Do you work for Impact? :?
Can you please provide Steve Hassan's quote? I think the comments you refer to are about the methods of deprogramming - by persuasion and activating the person's old self, as opposed to using force - rather than a comment on how to have a discussion on an internet forum.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 09:29PM by rrmoderator.
Quote
Indoctrination vs, Training
Since this is an education forum, not a religious forum, a little latitude in discussion is needed to combat what is clearly a religious based indoctrination entity, Impact Trainings. They have chosen to proclaim ecumenical status, that is, worldwide or general in extent influence or application. Their deprivation of mental freedom offends not only all religions, atheists, but citizens of all persuasions. My objective here is to make an ecumenical statement in view of recent posts.
I know little of world religions, but I do know that they all have canonized literature of some form. Even Impact has that in things like that awful song about singing in the wind. I have used brief clips from LDS literature here in the past that I thought had an anti-Impact flavor. Actually I find all of these texts and the U.S. Constitution for that matter to have abundant anti-Impact literature. There is one more beautiful little piece of text that I think fits the time with this forum, wonderful SAMIZDAT, or self publishing irritant to Impact that it is. This comes from “Hymns of the Church…,” or what I call the fifth standard work. The words are by Susan Evans McCloud, in hymn 220, verse 3. It goes, “I would be my brother’s keeper, I would learn the healer’s art. To the wounded and the weary I would show a gentle heart.” Think of a Quest graduation. Were there ever a group of people, one hundred plus or minus in number, more wounded and weary than these? My biggest lesson from Impact is to not be confrontational to these souls. To the wounded and the weary, showing a gentle heart is the only way to go. Confrontation will surely make things much worse. They have lost, for a time at least, their power to think critically for themselves and make rational judgements. I could have quoted Steve Hassan on his experience with the Moonies. He says the same thing that I have said here in essence.
Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. It seems you are saying:
You learned great lessons on Impact.
The music was awful.
Disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan
The Ross Institute of New Jersey/May 2013
See [www.culteducation.com]
The inclusion of news articles within the Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) archives, which mention and/or quote Steven Hassan, in no way suggests that RI recommends Mr. Hassan or recognizes him in any way.
News articles that mention Steve Hassan have been archived for historical purposes only due to the information they contain about controversial groups, movements and/or leaders.
RI does not recommend Steven Hassan.
RI has received serious complaints about Steve Hassan concerning his fees. Mr. Hassan does not publicly disclose his fee schedule, but according to complaints Steve Hassan has charged fees varying from $250.00 per hour or $2,500.00 per day to $500.00 per hour or $5,000.00 per day. This does not include Mr. Hassan's expenses, which according to complaints can be quite substantial.
Steven Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One recent complaint cited total fees of almost $50,000.00. But this very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.
Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results..."
Steve Hassan has at times suggested to potential clients that they purchase a preliminary report based upon what he calls his "BITE" model. These "BITE reports" can potentially cost thousands of dollars.
See [corp.sec.state.ma.us]
Steve Hassan runs a for-profit corporation called "Freedom of Mind." Mr. Hassan is listed as the corporate agent for that business as well as its president and treasurer.
RI does not recommend "Freedom of Mind" as a resource.
RI also does not list or recommend Steve Hassan's books.
To better understand why Mr. Hassan's books are not recommended by RI read this detailed review of his most recently self-published book titled "Freedom of Mind."
See [www.cultnews.com]
Steve Hassan's cult intervention methodology has historically raised concerns since its inception. The book "Recovery from Cults" (W.W. Norton & Co. pp. 174-175) edited by Dr. Michael Langone states the following:
"Calling his approach 'strategic intervention [sic] therapy,' Hassan (1988) stresses that, although he too tries to communicate a body of information to cultists and to help them think independently, he also does formal counseling. As with many humanistic counseling approaches, Hassan’s runs the risk of imposing clarity, however subtly, on the framework’s foundational ambiguity and thereby manipulating the client."
RI has also learned that Mr. Hassan has had dual-relationships with his counseling clients. That is, clients seeing Mr. Hassan for counseling may also do professional cult intervention work with him.
Professionals in the field of cultic studies have also expressed concerns regarding Steven Hassan's use of hypnosis and Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).
Based upon complaints and the concerns expressed about Mr. Hassan RI does not recommend Steve Hassan for counseling, intervention work or any other form of professional consultation.
If your church took over Impact and changed the music, would that solve the problem?
I notice you also regularly post updates on Impact registration figures. Do you work for Impact? :?
Can you please provide Steve Hassan's quote? I think the comments you refer to are about the methods of deprogramming - by persuasion and activating the person's old self, as opposed to using force - rather than a comment on how to have a discussion on an internet forum.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 09:29PM by rrmoderator.
IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
SaneAgain
()
Date: August 19, 2007 06:09PM
army-of-me wrote:
army, this sounds horrid. I would hate being forced to sing in public.
I agree. The problem with lgats is everything they do is specifically designed to get people "out of their comfort zones" so that they can experience stress, then later a release from stress, together with some love-bomging, to release endorphins and make them more suggestible to whatever is being promoted.
As someone (can't remember who) said: "I've worked hard to create a comfort zone, I'm staying in it!" :lol:
Quote
Ugh, I remember standing up to "engage" and saying that I was having a hard time at the training because I didn't trust my feelings, I only trusted my logic. Justin told me that there was a "possibility" that I didn't know the difference between my heart and mind and that we were about to do an exercise that would "assist" me with my question. This is when we did the singing exercise. We were all to have a turn to sing that "awful song about signing in the wind", solo, acapella, with a microphone in front of a group of fellow trainees and staff. You had to sing it until you "got it right". Getting it right meant singing it sincerely, emotionally, passionately, etc. Each person probably heard the song 30-50 times and sung it themselves 1-3 times when the night was over. As far as I know, the only person who didn't sing was asked to leave.
army, this sounds horrid. I would hate being forced to sing in public.
Quote
freedomofmind.com wrote:Quote
I personally enjoy the benefits of prayer, meditation, chanting, singing as well as self-hypnosis techniques. At my Jewish Temple people are free to participate at their own comfort level. A healthy skepticism toward dogma and exclusive elitism is encouraged.
That is the difference between the techniques being healthy and damaging. At impact, no one had a choice to participate at their own comfort level. It was used to also divert me from my concerns.
I agree. The problem with lgats is everything they do is specifically designed to get people "out of their comfort zones" so that they can experience stress, then later a release from stress, together with some love-bomging, to release endorphins and make them more suggestible to whatever is being promoted.
As someone (can't remember who) said: "I've worked hard to create a comfort zone, I'm staying in it!" :lol:
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