where is everyone now that I want to talk?
:)

I\'m still here Dazed.

This is me waiting to talk with dazedandconfused :)

what is on your mind?

Hey there dazed; it is 9:32 p.m. in my part of the world...are you still her wanting to talk...??

speak up man! :lol: "I'm listening",,, just like Frasier, eh? :? this is me, confused, no, just kidding :)

I will be in and out, so just shout!

regards,
'shad'

Charting the popularity of the thread:

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8/27/07-67051

nice...

Put this up on the South African Quest thread, but thought I'd post it here too:

This effect/reaction stuff is interesting. At Impact the logic went like this: People go through life choosing to be victims: “Everyone did this to me and that is why I am the way I am the way I am and that is how I justify being a horrible person to everyone else on the planet."

The Impact fix to this is for a person to consciously choose accountability for everything that has (or will) happen in not only their own lives, but in the lives of the people around them. Then you are not simply in "effect/reaction" to everything, rather you are at "cause", and are a "creator". They then expand this creationism to be the true divine nature of the human being, and on into the idea that all humans are in fact gods.

Now, here is where I began to see their (at that time, “our”) logic break down. Whenever something dysfunctional happened in the trainings such as oh, fornication and adultery among the office staff and the trainees for one real example, lip service was given to "accountability" by those in charge, but not "responsibility" which according to them literally means "the ability to respond". Responsibility is being at effect; and thus a victim, so no no no no. They do not take accountability by saying, "Oh...maybe its the training and our shoddy product that caused this abhorrent, deviant behavior...". No, you will [i:538de1eaf5]never[/i:538de1eaf5] hear that. I [i:538de1eaf5]did[/i:538de1eaf5] hear, "Oh, I am ONLY accountable in that I should have been more careful as to who I let into my inner circle."

Essentially saying: “[i:538de1eaf5]The training is good the training is great we surrender our will as of this date[/i:538de1eaf5].”

Then of course, I would invariably come to another conflict in this logic when a trainee with a history of molestation would come to Impact. They would get confused when they were told that they allowed the abuse to happen. And always, some random exception to this “logic” would be given, such as “Well, you are and have been accountable for [i:538de1eaf5]how[/i:538de1eaf5] you have chosen to respond to the abuse, right?” or something to that effect, but they can never directly address the flaw in their logic. If a little helpless kid is a god and is at choice, how could they be considered a victim in fact? And if [i:538de1eaf5]they[/i:538de1eaf5] can be, why not everyone else? I mean, we are dealing with universal truth here, right? :roll: I heard it explained this way more than a few times: "not only are we at choice, but we are also in relationship with the choices of others." Isn't that what being a victim is all about in the first place?!? This is their explanation from the Trainer In Training cult perspective: “Well, we make agreements with each other in the pre-mortal life to teach each other and learn from each other. So in fact, you did agree to be molested, you just don’t remember because the mortal veil has been placed over your eyes that you might not see so you can have this mortal experience. With our assistance, you may remove that veil and forgive your beautiful teachers...”. They reinforce this reasoning from a children’s book (that is sometimes read to them in the Summit training) called [i:538de1eaf5]The Little Soul and the Sun[/i:538de1eaf5].

Convenient, no? It is no wonder why so many Mormons eat this stuff up…

Quote
exImpact
[w]e make agreements with each other in the pre-mortal life to teach each other and learn from each other. So in fact, you did agree to be molested, . . .

So if you wanted to molest a kid and didn't do it, you would be breaking you agreement to "teach' this person. So you would actually be doing the kid a favor by molesting them.

This is beyond sick.

BTW, this doesn't sound mormonish to me. I've heard of pre-existence agreements to be placed in certain situations in life, but the idea is to exercise your free will and do the right thing despite temptation to do otherwise. "We are to be tested', I was told.

Q-lady, I disagree. The pre-existance is a [i:6d5cd004f5]very[/i:6d5cd004f5] LDS idea (It is probably the most developed and detailed description of the pre-mortal life in Christian existence) and the presentation of the Impact theodicy is calculated. The Bergers were Mormon themselves and many of their children still are, including the Quest coordinator. Most of the trainers and office staff were and are LDS, and those who stay do so only to serve, and those who left did because they believe religion is war. The explanations Impact provides for why all of the crap in the world exists has a universal tone that is laced with LDS ideals. Many Mormons eat it up. How else could you explain why so many of them would willingly join a religious cult?

I'll tell you: Shaky faith and easy answers.

Most Mormons who become TIT-LDS do so for a few reasons.

ONE: they believe that many of the brethren have lost their way.

TWO: they don't believe the church has many practical, real-world answers for modern-day problems and have lost faith.

THREE: They no longer desire to be sheep in the flock, now knowing that they have all the authority from God they require within themselves.

The Berger's use the trainings to instill in others [i:6d5cd004f5]their[/i:6d5cd004f5] version of the Mormon truths. They use what they believe is true to manipulate others to believe the same, and they cut out anything they don't agree with. They have made their own religion, and it has direct ties and influences from the LDS faith.

Although I don't agree with much of what Hopeful Soul has posted on these boards, much of what they have shared (the false and foolish doctrine etc.) could be valid from an insider-LDS point of view.

there is another message thread started on religious cults and sects

Quote
dazedandconfused
there is another message thread started on religious cults and sects

True, but this is the Impact thread, and if we are talking [i:333bd1119c]about Impact[/i:333bd1119c], we aren't going off topic, regardless if religion gets in the mix or not (is that what you are wondering dazed?). I have written before multiple times on this very subject on this board and have never been brought up short because I usually don't stray from the board topic. Why have people go to two sources to learn about Impact as opposed to the practical convenience and effectivenes of one?

Impact = Religious Cult + LGAT.

I am not interested in discussing religion, I am interested in exposing ALL of the teachings that are given by Impact, both openly and behind closed doors. And I think I am free to discuss relevant observations, right? :)