Can someone explane what a stretch is please. I have heard this term used but did not relize it was an Impact word until today.

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Glaucon
I realize it is ambiguous to deal shame out abstractly, so I would like to clarify by saying that I mean those people in power who have apathetic views or an uneducated understanding of LGATs. I realize I cannot put shame on people who don't even realize Impact is what it is, and I definitely don't want to put shame on the victims of this place. My apologies for being cumbersome.

I don't see any of what you said as cumbersome. When I have said LGAT's are a plague, I mean it! It is a mental health plague that is allowed to run free outside the checks and balances of criminal law. It is a tragedy.

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SmokerSally
Can someone explain what a stretch is please. I have heard this term used but did not realize it was an Impact word until today.

A stretch is an exercise where a trainee is to do something that they will find embarrassing (dressing down to nothing to dance for a bunch of people you don’t really know), difficult (going out and begging local merchants for food to make a thanksgiving dinner for a family) or humiliating (a man dressing up like Pee-Wee Herman. Usually the person who has been identified as the class pervert). In Summit a stretch is a performance where you humiliate yourself on the front end, and then do something spiritual, such as a ballet or pantomime. The belly dancing part is supposed to be the spiritual one where dressing up like cows is the embarrassing one. They can’t win…some women say it is a liberating experience, but I know many who did that stretch and it did not help their self esteem one bit in the long term, and that’s a fact. These stretches are aimed to get you to further go against your individual psychology and join in the group mentality of the mental conditioning. It is a sheep in wolves clothing.

When you do Impact, you do "stretches" throughout all of the trainings. Other stretches include going to a public place like a mall and approaching people to get them to hug you. I hated that. My reaction was to lie....and partly I did. I managed to ask a couple of people (one that I ordered food from and thought she wouldn't freak out) and then when I returned I just listened and hoped that I wouldn't be called upon. I remembering getting the Honeybaked Ham store to donate food to a family...then we had to identify a family that we were to deliver the food to. We made a deal with Honeybaked Ham that all of us would eat (and pay) for our food if they would donate 4 meals for a family that had just moved into my neighborhood. There were many stretches that were way out of my comfort zone. I hated nearly all of them. The worst ones were where my own personal integrity and personal space was jeopardized. AND I told myself it was all good for me. Good heavens....what is good about that?

This is a comment from "How Did You Delude Yourself", the new LGAT thread on this site. I found it interesting:

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Hope

My doctor referred me to Landmark. I went nearly 1-1/2 years after he casually mentioned it during an office visit. I've heard other therapists are recommending Landmark Education.

It used to be that going to a health professional who was working in a professional office didn't have to be researched to see if they actually had professional credentials. I learned the hard way. I didn't delude myself that he was a "real doctor" - I trusted no one would have the brass ones to open a medical practice near a hospital and not have a medical degree. I went to one Forum and realized that my doctor was up to his eyeballs in their "technology."

My family was introduced to Impact by friends, and many people are "recruited" to the Berger's cult by friends and family with the guilt ridden "do you trust me" approach. But I wonder how many Utah doctors or therapists have irresponsibly "recommended" Impact as a form of therapy? How many brainwashed mental therapists are in LGAT's like Impact :shock: ????

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outofimpact
The worst ones were where my own personal integrity and personal space was jeopardized. AND I told myself it was all good for me. Good heavens....what is good about that?

I told myself that as well, although I couldn't shake the feeling that I was betraying myself somehow as I did this shit. Then it led to TIT and more. At times I feel like a survivor of some horrible crime. And what makes it worse is that at those times it seems like its all in my head, and I want to disbelieve what has been done to me, because then I have to think about what I may have done to others while I was under the influence of the Impact mindset. All I know is that I don't even know who that Impact person was anymore. I have reclaimed much, and can only improve from here. I've had to divorce my identity from the Impact-self, in a very real way. It is probably the most difficult thing I have ever had to do. But it is working, very well. :)

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Glaucon
My family was introduced to Impact by friends, and many people are "recruited" to the Berger's cult by friends and family with the guilt ridden "do you trust me" approach. But I wonder how many Utah doctors or therapists have irresponsibly "recommended" Impact as a form of therapy? How many brainwashed mental therapists are in LGAT's like Impact :shock: ????

I know of several doctors and other professionals in Impact. I know mental health professionals in TIT. If they haven't recommended Impact as part of their private practice they've at least used the TIT tools with their patients. One of the doctors runs a dual clinic where he practices both alternative and traditional medicine. He has all kinds of wierd tools that are supposed to change your "frequency" and increase your natural healing ability. If you're into herbs and natural remedies I can see how this would be a somewhat good option as he does, at least, have a professional degree.

On the other hand, I know several people in TIT 3 and other trainings that practice herbology on their own and actually use it as a substitute for traditional medicine. How they can put trust in a crystal over centuries of scientific research is beyond me. Basic kinesthesiology is actually taught as part of the TIT experience. The whole idea of asking yourself what's wrong and using muscle testing to get the answer is not unheard of. Physical illness, in the training, is often seen as a sign of a deeper emotional or spritual conflict and so is attempted to be fixed by crystals and energy rather than actually seeing a doctor or taking a pill. It is a common belief that meditation and getting in tune is a cure all.

Besides medical professionals, I've heard of bishops and stakes presidents in the LDS religion recommending the training. Yes, this is an uncommon experience as most of them are against the training, but it does happen. I also know that one of Hans's close friends, who is an emeritas member of the quorum of the the seventies, is in TIT 3.

Now that I think about it, Hans's friend may not be in TIT 3. I know for sure he did the core trainings and I thought I heard rumours that he went on to TIT 1, but I'm not quite sure.

Ex - How have you divorced yourself from your Impact-self? I am having trouble separating that person and who I am today because as I read others' experience, I feel like I relive the shit that they put me through. And I agree with you TOTALLY when you say that you said you were betraying yourself. That is exactly what I felt. I wasn't tuning in to my "inner knowing," which told me that I was betraying my own sense of self. Instead, I lied to myself and told myself that Impact was doing something good and wonderful to myself.
:cry:

As I have found support here, I feel so blessed and empowered to take my life back. I asked my parents to do Impact. They made it through Quest...and it nearly killed my father. At the time, I told him I was giving him a gift. I am so grateful that they didn't go on to any of the other trainings. I had never had much of a relationship with my father until Impact and I have to tell you that Quest did provide us an opportunity to bond. Now I am sickened to think that the "bond" we experienced was so abusive. Fortunately, because my parents are old and set in their ways, they didn't want to go on to any of the other sessions and most of what was taught didn't stick. I hope I didn't cause my parents any harm when I used the manipulation to get my parents to do Quest. I am saddened that I was one of Impact's groupies who bought into the crap they taught.

Can I ask...How do you stop beating yourself up for buying into the crap taught in Impact. This is the part I am having a hard time with ....separating myself out...and not ripping myself up one side and down the other because I totally bought into this stuff.

Also, spiritual?, I, too, know of a physician who recommends Impact as a way to work through your problems. He is a D.O. and staffed some of my trainings. He was one of the reasons I went to Impact. I quit seeing him after Impact. Again, it was one of those things I removed myself from after I was through with the trainings. Somehow, I felt like I was seeing a "quack" because I couldn't subscribe to the Impact lifestyle anymore.

Enzio was a participant in Quest but chose to "watch" Summit (either 208 or 211) and didn't do much more with Impact. He also reported back to the Church about Impact. If he didn't attend TIT then the whole picture wasn't gotten and the juicy stuff was left out. I also noticed a slight change in the Summit when he was there - some of the processes were altered a bit, and Pamela's 'demeanor' was a bit different.

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outofimpact
Ex - How have you divorced yourself from your Impact-self? I am having trouble separating that person and who I am today because as I read others' experience, I feel like I relive the shit that they put me through. And I agree with you TOTALLY when you say that you said you were betraying yourself. That is exactly what I felt. I wasn't tuning in to my "inner knowing," which told me that I was betraying my own sense of self. Instead, I lied to myself and told myself that Impact was doing something good and wonderful to myself.
:cry:

As I have found support here, I feel so blessed and empowered to take my life back. I asked my parents to do Impact. They made it through Quest...and it nearly killed my father. At the time, I told him I was giving him a gift. I am so grateful that they didn't go on to any of the other trainings. I had never had much of a relationship with my father until Impact and I have to tell you that Quest did provide us an opportunity to bond. Now I am sickened to think that the "bond" we experienced was so abusive. Fortunately, because my parents are old and set in their ways, they didn't want to go on to any of the other sessions and most of what was taught didn't stick. I hope I didn't cause my parents any harm when I used the manipulation to get my parents to do Quest. I am saddened that I was one of Impact's groupies who bought into the crap they taught.

Can I ask...How do you stop beating yourself up for buying into the crap taught in Impact. This is the part I am having a hard time with ....separating myself out...and not ripping myself up one side and down the other because I totally bought into this stuff.

Also, spiritual?, I, too, know of a physician who recommends Impact as a way to work through your problems. He is a D.O. and staffed some of my trainings. He was one of the reasons I went to Impact. I quit seeing him after Impact. Again, it was one of those things I removed myself from after I was through with the trainings. Somehow, I felt like I was seeing a "quack" because I couldn't subscribe to the Impact lifestyle anymore.

I am pretty sure spiritual? is including the specific D.O. you are referencing. He is one that came to mind as I read this. It is natural and healthy to want to stay away from anything that reminds you of all things Impact. The damage to self-esteem is, as far as I can tell, the most common and nearly universal side-effect of the damage done by LGAT’s. Of course, the severity of this is relative and depends on many variables. My first suggestion for you Outof, is if you have not already, find a therapist. But not just ANY therapist. Interview with a few before you settle on one. Make sure they do not utilize any new-age techniques or resources within their therapy, this will trigger issues you do not need to revisit. If you can, find a professional with a doctorate as opposed to a masters, unless of course the masters you find is brilliant and has good chemistry with you. It is my opinion that finding a therapist that will prescribe medication as a temporary tool for the sole purpose of helping you to not have to rely on for your stability is a good sign. Don’t be afraid to ask for what discipline they specialize in. Make sure you mention you are interested in de-programming, that you just want your identity and self-esteem back. Be up front with them and tell them everything you went through while you were in Impact, beginning in quest, and onward. Do not hold anything back with your professional, particularly your cultish experiences, you will only frustrate your experience if you do.

Make sure the professional knows you have been mentally conditioned. You may have to educate your thereapist, do not assume that they are aware of all of the issues here. Pound it into them so they can fully, appropriately appreciate the gravity of the situation.

Professional therapy is to help give you a road map back to yourself. A sounding board can be a good thing, but talking with a professional and figuring out a strategy with which to combat your issues and move on is the point here. It will help alleviate this sense of floundering about with your emotions and move to solving the problem(s). Guilt is a big issue for me, and it can be crippling if the imagination is allowed to run rampant with it. My therapy sessions have done more for me than the sum of everything else I have tried, including this board.

When I first began to go to therapy, I had to battle the Impact imbued disdain I had for the profession, coupled with past failures with therapy. I now write off the past failures because I did not screen my therapists when I was younger. Make sure to make an appointment before you leave each interview. Even if you have to re-schedule, make an appointment, even if you know you can’t keep it. It is too easy to want to blow it off. Make sure you are willing to have the discipline to recover in partnership with your professional for the long haul. There is no time limit on how long recovery can take. Although I have had some measure of recovery, as I have expressed, sometimes it feels like it is all gone and I become submerged in all of it. That is when I page my flexible and understanding therapist, even though I don’t want to do it.
This is a safety net that personally tailored for your specific situation. Although helpful, this website should be seen as a supportive tool to be utilized in conjunction with your therapy.

Sharing my experiences and talking about the issues (as I have learned) can be both helpful and harmful. The mind cannot differentiate from past trauma and remembered trauma. When I am unable to step back and separate myself from what I talk about, I find I re-traumatize myself. This does not mean that I have to become unemotional, but because the trauma and conditioning from the trainings still has sway and life within my behavior and psyche, I have to be careful and moderate the time I spend focusing on the trainings. I have tried multiple times to take a break from talking about these issues, but (obviously) I have not been successful. So, I have to be MUCH more attentive to my mindset and my mental and emotional attitudes when I address these issues so that I may be able to continue any dialogue. Ultimately, Impact and LGAT’s must become an object you can look at without it sending you into any kind of [i:1e695a55ec]destabilizing[/i:1e695a55ec] emotional or psychological state. But this cannot automatically be accomplished without a conscious effort if you are experiencing the symptoms you admit to, and this is difficult without someone to help guide things along, particularly when it is someone with an outside perspective. I ask that anyone who is reading this post and continues to come up against Impact related problems from being involved in it, regardless of the comparative severity of issues, please do not downplay the potential significant benefit of seeking professional help.