Hello outofimpact,

Thank you for raising the subject of stretches. I have been wanting to bring this and related subjects to the board for some time but every time I try to do so I find myself re-living the experiences and also having extreme anxiety, because in the training I did (Quest / Inquest in South Africa) these processes came after an intense 'commitment to secrecy' process that unfortunately still has an irrational hold over me, even though intellectually I reject that commitment as morally and legally invalid. So I am very grateful for what you have written here.

I have also only recently realised how severely harmful the training is and decided to reject it totally. I am having some of the same problems you describe though - beating myself up for getting involved, feeling bad about people I recruited and re-living the experiences as I read and write about them.

I have read in several places that cults 'prey on people's weaknesses' and so I spent a lot of time examining my weaknesses to figure out what my weaknesses are and how they 'got' me. Eventually I realised they didn't get me through my weaknesses, but through my strengths - and that probably goes for most people. How I came to realise that was by reading this board - the people who post messages here (the ones who are 'out') - are all so nice! Intelligent, good senses of humour, polite and respectful with each other, courageous, passionate, philosophical, concerned about the well-being of other people and the rest of society, willing to examine themselves honestly (probably too much so) - really really nice people here!! So it occurred to me that maybe it was the strengths of the people writing here that got them sucked into the lgat, and maybe (hopefully) that applies a little to me too. I am sure we have weaknesses and those were preyed on, but I think that is the lesser part of what happened and it is helpful to first look at the strengths, like:

- a desire to improve ourselves and our lives.

- courage to try something new and different.

- Open-minded enough to try something different.

- courage to walk into a training room without knowing in advance what would happen in there

- trust in the person who recruited us (bearing in mind most probably did so with the best possible intentions).

- love - having what AT THE TIME felt like a wonderful experience and wanting to share that with others.

- natural honesty - people without natural honesty would not be interested in training that emphasises integrity so heavily (their definition of integrity is skrewed, I know, but at the time that didn't sink in).

- optimism and perseverence - continuing with the training despite nagging doubts in the hope that it would actually work.


In an ideal world these are good qualities. In a world of con-artists they are liabilities that ended up damaging us and other people and I guess have to be tempered with a lot of caution and cynicism, but they're still good qualities.

I hope this doesn't sound arrogant and unrealistically positive (as if I've been reading The Secret or something) - I am well aware of all my weaknesses and that everyone has weaknesses and that they do play a part, but I really think these good qualities are the real hooks that got us in - as well as ultimately what got us out.

I think its better to focus on this in the beginning, when its all a shock and you have a lot of readjusting to do - then maybe look at the weaknesses a little later when its all had time to sink in and settle.


All of the above is about how they sucked us in, but the details of the manipulation - don't ever underestimate the power of those techniques. There is a reason why they are kept secret, and not very much written about or practiced in decent society. These people have been doing what they do for decades, and have got it all down to a precise and obscene art. Or maybe not an art, because I don't think even they understand what they're doing, they've just perfected the craft of how to do what they do, and they throw in every technique plus the kitchen sink. Have you read the article on the Landmark room set up? That is mind blowing, and its only the set up for the basic quest. Just imagine everything else that goes on behind the scenes in the advanced trainings. Not only the physical setup, because you've probably seen that - but the psychological effect of every single tiny detail that is so anally and obsessively staged and co-ordinated. You would have to be inhuman to resist or see through all that at the time, on your own.

And also don't underestimate the physical effects of the trainings - they create altered states of consciousness and force your body to release powerful levels of natural drugs like endorphins, serotonin, adrenaline, cortisol etc. If the concentration of these chemicals that are released during a process like a stretch could be bottled and sold on a street corner they'd probably fetch higher prices than cocaine and heroin. Think about it. Its far more than simply being fooled by a bunch of stupid ideas.

I know I need to be careful not to drive myself crazy by trying to deal with it all too quickly so maybe you need to be careful and cautious as well - just imagine all those processes you've done suddenly being done all at the same time in reverse - it would kill you! Just go slowly, a little at a time. That's something else they do on those trainings, everything is instant dramatic change and I don't think its healthy, humans need time to adapt and reflect and change gradually in a balanced-out way.


Anyway, thank you again for all you've written about the stretches (outofimpact and everyone else).

Ex..thank you for your comments here. I have been working with a therapist and that has been helpful. I have not addressed Impact in the way you suggested and I think that will be most helpful. Up until this point, I have been unable to describe my experience to my therapist because I can't seem to make the words come out of my mouth in a way that I don't just sound like I am whining. The crap that Impact taught and the way I hear myself, sounds to me like I am making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't understand how to state what happened without my own judgmental ear jumping in and my brain telling me that I am exaggerating. That makes me feel a bit crazy. Its like I have been so conditioned from my experience that I can't describe what I am feeling inside. My therapist says this is PTSD...and I believe her. The retraumatization I feel nearly prevents me from describing what happened. You see, when you are in the training room, it is like your brain goes mush and then they tell you what to think, feel, experience and yet you are clueless that anything is happening. (Now I hear myself telling myself that I need to speak from "my experience....in other words, as they tell you, I shouldn't speak in the "you" statements but use "I" instead of "you") OH goodness..does this make sense to anyone else?

Anyway....I will not give up in divorcing myself and becoming whole. I appreciate so much the advice and understanding given in this forum. Thank you ....all ..for your contribution.

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outofimpact
Ex..thank you for your comments here. I have been working with a therapist and that has been helpful. I have not addressed Impact in the way you suggested and I think that will be most helpful. Up until this point, I have been unable to describe my experience to my therapist because I can't seem to make the words come out of my mouth in a way that I don't just sound like I am whining. The crap that Impact taught and the way I hear myself, sounds to me like I am making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't understand how to state what happened without my own judgmental ear jumping in and my brain telling me that I am exaggerating. That makes me feel a bit crazy. Its like I have been so conditioned from my experience that I can't describe what I am feeling inside. My therapist says this is PTSD...and I believe her. The retraumatization I feel nearly prevents me from describing what happened. You see, when you are in the training room, it is like your brain goes mush and then they tell you what to think, feel, experience and yet you are clueless that anything is happening. (Now I hear myself telling myself that I need to speak from "my experience....in other words, as they tell you, I shouldn't speak in the "you" statements but use "I" instead of "you") OH goodness..does this make sense to anyone else?

Sorry if my message seemed too lengthy or presumptuous, I was kind of giving the advice to everyone who looks at the board :) I have PTDS too and I occasionally go through those awful mental tennis matches, and when it happens I get frustrated and/or livid. Because I deluded myself so thoroughly that the training staff was my family, and when my guard is down, I have the stray thought come to me that I'm betraying these people who betrayed me in a horrible way. THAT gets under my skin something fierce. The crazy mountain out of a molehill stuff initially happened to me too, that was one of the reasons (not the major reason) why it took me so long to seek therapy. All I had to do was look at these boards and begin typing and only the mountain remained :D

Ex - I can only imagine the gymnastics your mind does when the thoughts come to your mind that you are betraying your "training staff was your family." I have not had any contact with anyone from my "impact family" since I removed myself from the email list I was on 1 or 2 years ago. The truth of the matter is, the staff family betrayed you by abusing your mind. In my mind, I know that love is not abusive. There isn't one of the staff and trainers that are not abusive in their manipulations. I experienced abuse as a child, in a marriage, and in the Impact Trainings. There were times I recognized what was happening in the trainings as abuse...but I deluded myself because I wanted to fit in. I never really like Pamela....who told us that when she did her stretch she was a BITCH. Well...that totally fit..back when she did her stretch and NOW. I can hardly believe that I wanted her to like me. What was wrong with me?! I really wanted Terri to like me...and it seemed that Hans and Sally were just off limits unless you were REALLY special. Well...I didn't fit that profile. None of them went out of their way to make me feel loved. It hurt at the time, and now I recognize that as one of the ways they get you hooked. Self esteem is so destroyed that you look to a trainer to build you back up...and then you are so dependent on that that you don't know how to give yourself the feedback of self esteem without the training. It always amazed me to hear how some of my "impact family" needed to go to the Center to be ok. That reminds me how some in the LDS religion need to go to the temple to be ok. (I don't mean that in a derogatory way...I just don't understand it)

Again...keep posting. It is very helpful to communicate here and learn the truth.

Greetings everyone,
I just barely finished Quest last week. I am in the process of reading the contents of this entire thread. I am about half way through the 26 page saga, and I plan on finishing it as soon as I have time.
I just have to say to most everyone who has posted here: thank you for all that you have shared. I only went though Quest and the few days I've had since graduation have been spent trying to forget and de-program everything I just experienced. I went in feeling pretty happy and functional hoping to attain even more happiness and functionality. I came out feeling anxious, depressed, confused, angry, powerless/powerful (yes, both) and sleep deprived. (nice results, eh?)
I have a desire to write a long email to everyone in my "impact family" detailing my thoughts on the whole thing so that maybe, just maybe, the idea that one person had a bad experience will give them an idea to re-evaluate (or more accurately just evaluate to begin with) any decisions to move on in the trainings. Or maybe just introduce to them the "possibility" that it was actually a bad thing for someone. I hesitate to do so because I fear reliving "the feedback arcs" again in email replies, yet I would also want to respond to anyone who replies who wants to discuss it rationally. What do you guys think?
Yesterday I felt like I would explode, but reading this thread has already started healing the wounds that are so fresh (and hopefully not very deep). Again, I'm grateful I only went to Quest, or else I would be calling a therapist instead of typing this.

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army-of-me
Greetings everyone,
I just barely finished Quest last week. I am in the process of reading the contents of this entire thread. I am about half way through the 26 page saga, and I plan on finishing it as soon as I have time.
I just have to say to most everyone who has posted here: thank you for all that you have shared. I only went though Quest and the few days I've had since graduation have been spent trying to forget and de-program everything I just experienced. I went in feeling pretty happy and functional hoping to attain even more happiness and functionality. I came out feeling anxious, depressed, confused, angry, powerless/powerful (yes, both) and sleep deprived. (nice results, eh?)
I have a desire to write a long email to everyone in my "impact family" detailing my thoughts on the whole thing so that maybe, just maybe, the idea that one person had a bad experience will give them an idea to re-evaluate (or more accurately just evaluate to begin with) any decisions to move on in the trainings. Or maybe just introduce to them the "possibility" that it was actually a bad thing for someone. I hesitate to do so because I fear reliving "the feedback arcs" again in email replies, yet I would also want to respond to anyone who replies who wants to discuss it rationally. What do you guys think?
Yesterday I felt like I would explode, but reading this thread has already started healing the wounds that are so fresh (and hopefully not very deep). Again, I'm grateful I only went to Quest, or else I would be calling a therapist instead of typing this.

Greetings army,

To be honest, one of the reasons I started posting on these boards is for people like you. I do want people to stay away from the trainings altogether, but my main hope is that people [i:e6b08841bd]currently[/i:e6b08841bd] involved in the trainings will see what is here and leave, thusly preventing further trauma and impoverishment inflicted by these quacks. So, congratulations, I am genuinely happy for you and everyone you care about.

As far as emailing your “Impact Family”, (or as I like to call them, “strangers Impact uses to guilt you into thinking you are a bad person”) I have seen variations of this kind of attempt to save their buddies and they have all had similar results. In Summit, there is a process where the trainees wash each others feet as Jesus did to Mary Magdalene. Long ago in the Harmony days, between their Summit and Lift-Off trainings, a group of various LDS buddies sent the group an email, bashing Impact’s plagiarism of a sacred LDS rite and asked that the group boycott the trainings. They also included the official LDS statement that warns people away from LGAT’s (why so many Mormons irrationally disregard this warning from the Brethren, I'll never understand). During the post training, a trainer (who is no longer with Impact) used these LDS buddies as an example of THE WAR religion and the “outside world” can cause and basically vilified and threw them under the bus. I think one or two people that were at the post training left because of this, but I am not positive. I witnessed attempts at this "LDS viewpoint coup" numerous times, and it makes some people re-think the trainings, but I remember that some trainees claimed that it pushed them harder into the training. My opinion is that those individuls it “pushes harder” are lost anyway, and have abandoned reason to a significant degree.

The non-LDS approach (emails etc.) has been done, and the results are similar, but reach more than just the LDS trainees. And now with the information available to everyone through this message board, you could give them data from these pages and links to them etc. The Cult of the TIT will be quite contentious for many at the Quest level, because they aren’t quite as deep into the conditioning as they will be after Summit. You may be able to get people who are on the fence about moving on to summit to join you. Impact will try to intimidate you to stop (as all LGAT's do. If it were not for intimidation they would be out of work), but they will not follow through on any of it because they would have to expose the details as to what goes on inside the training. Even if you only get one person to change their mind about Impact, it’s a victory. As far as the electronic feedback arc fear goes, let them do what they want! That is what the trash folder is for. They do not know anything about you other than what you shared in Quest, so, they may know some facts about your life, [i:e6b08841bd]but they haven’t a clue as to who you really are,[/i:e6b08841bd] although they may have convinced you that they do. That training room is not, as they say, a “life simulator” , rather, it’s a “fiction propagator”! All seemingly intimate relationships formed in that environment are created in a place that is built on false pretenses and delusion induced by mental conditioning and intimidation.

Good on ya, army! And good luck with everything you are trying to accomplish. Yes, I mean “try”. It’s that process that happens between not accomplishing something and accomplishing that thing. It does exist! That is why we have a word for it! :D

Cheers,
ex

Army,

You were told in Quest that hanging on to your peanuts would cause you to loose your place at the abundant banquet table of life, right? That advice is really designed to keep your wallet open and you willing to pay for and attend Summit. You are experiencing their false, and vain, and foolish doctrine. Do a little experiment by sticking your hand into a jar of peanuts with a mouth that will just admit your open hand. You will find that by putting your hand in cupping shape with the thumb tucked in you will still be able to bring out a lot of peanuts. Invest those peanuts wisely and you will reap far greater returns than by attending Summit, etc.
Further you will take no further risk to your precious sanity.

Hopeful

Army: HI :)

As far as "feedback"....don't let it get to you. Just know how contrived it is. When I was in Quest, I was very upset that I had to slam people with negative feedback. Of course I was really into Quest (at the time) and so I was really trying to go with my gut and true feelings....everything I said something that was positive or neutral...a staff member or trainer would get on my case. I was so confused. So just know that the rules are that you have to say really nasty stuff about people.....otherwise you're "not serving them". What a joke! I have seen more people traumatized by "feedback" than just about anything. My dad went to it 14 years ago and still mentions it occasionally about how that was the most negative, hurtful thing he ever did! I went to it only a year or so ago....and I forced myself to forget everything I heard because I knew it wasn't the REAL ME!

Impact should be shut down for that "experience" alone...for the damage it does. I'm sorry you experienced it :(

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exImpact
Been tracking the hits for the Impact Trainings thread page over the last few months, thought you might find it interesting:

3/24/07-10336
4/02/07-11400
5/17/07-15315

6/21/07-30620

This is unprecedented. Hits nearly [i:b28f135cea]doubled[/i:b28f135cea] in only one month.

Those numbers are amazing! It seems to me that it is even more imperative to post everything we can think of to expose the information and teachings that are "taught" in the trainings. The code of silence is the trainings biggest thing they have going for them. You see, if you are silent, and your experience is internal, the teachings and manipulations have power. When one exposes the beast, it shrinks and become known by all...therby, eliminating those who might succumb to teachings like that of Impact. I am going to go through my stuff and see if I can find the manuals and information I received throughout the 3 lower trainings. I know there was printed information, and anything I might have journaled might be helpful in exposing and sharing with others. If there are that many hits, it makes me wonder who is looking for information.

Keep Posting! Thank you, all, for your help in healing.