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outofimpact
It has come to my attention that I may have offended some here in wanting to expose the teachings. I apology if I have done that here. I will be careful about what I say here. I only want to heal.

I do not understand what you meant by this post. How have you done this? Who has given you reason to believe this? I don't see this anywhere...It certainly is not MY view! I have exposed more than anyone here and I have never gotten any such reproach. That is the WHOLE PURPOSE of these forums. I say, offend away! I don’t understand…

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exImpact
I do not understand what you meant by this post. How have you done this? Who has given you reason to believe this? I don't see this anywhere...

I am just taking a shot in the dark here, but I wonder if there is any relation to this post from the Klemmer topic.

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Rswinters
I am choosing to stay within my integrity. I agreed not to disclose what is done in Klemmer seminars, and only share what I experienced in them.

Well, I am not violating my promise. I am not telling you what is, and is not done in Klemmer seminars. I am telling you that Impact Training seminars are extremely similar in what, how, and the way these LGAT's utilize these mental and emotional tools that are experienced in seminars.

I am telling you to read in detail about Impact Training and use it as a guage to determine if you want to participate in Klemmer.

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question lady
I am just taking a shot in the dark here, but I wonder if there is any relation to this post from the Klemmer topic.

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Rswinters
I am choosing to stay within my integrity. I agreed not to disclose what is done in Klemmer seminars, and only share what I experienced in them.

Well, I am not violating my promise. I am not telling you what is, and is not done in Klemmer seminars. I am telling you that Impact Training seminars are extremely similar in what, how, and the way these LGAT's utilize these mental and emotional tools that are experienced in seminars.

I am telling you to read in detail about Impact Training and use it as a guage to determine if you want to participate in Klemmer.

Was this a response to outofimpact on another post?

Besides, "integrity" is irrelevant. It is a two way street, If they were dishonest with you and actually USE integrity as a weapon to mentally condition or CONTROL you, any implied agreement of nondisclosure is VOID. It’s like telling the Nazi’s you won’t lie to them so the Jewish family you are harboring avoids the camps. In both the Impact and Nazi situations, concerns of integrity are amoral. By my estimation, if you are convinced of the unethical nature of an organization such as these LGAT’s you are ethically obligated to expose them. I am not sure of the status of [i:fab9c6b690]signed and legally notarized[/i:fab9c6b690] non-disclosure agreements however. Do the Klemmer Asses use those? Either way, Impact does not and that is what is relevant to this discussion.

outofimpact, you've only posted on the Impact pages and I see no criticims that you speak of aimed at you, did someone PM you or contact you through Yahoo Messenger?

exImpact,

It wasn't a reply to outofimpact but a recent discussion on the Klemmer thread.

I agree with you exImpact. The more I think about it, I cannot come up with any legitimate reason for the LGAT's to extract such a promise, particularly when they use covert, manipulative techniques to obtain it.

I think it serves their agenda, which harms people by:

* making people feel like they are doing something wrong by revealing what happened.

* preventing analysis of how the brainwashing is carried out

* perpetuates a mystique around the training, and various levels thereof

* creates a sense of "us" versus "them"

* promotes "bonding" with the group members.

I think it is like the promise of secrecy a child molester extracts from his victim. It is only by speaking the truth that the victim can become free. The promise serves the pernicious agenda of the abuser, and does not serve the victim in any way.

Nonetheless, I understand that getting to the point where one feels comfortable speaking could be a long process which should not be forced.

Wow, the last few posts reminded me of the emotional love-ins that occur at the trainings when two people have an issue with each other. Believe it or not, I don't think every misunderstanding needs to be discussed in detail. I think outofimpact's initial post could have been addressed appropriately with a question/statement such as, "What the hell are you talking about? Stop peeing down your leg and trying to fit in, use the forum as it was intended".

However I thought the discussion on integrity was very interesting. I agree with ex. Impact integrity is only a tool used to control and manipulate. How often did Impact insist on trainees behaving in a way that violated the basic tenets of honesty and integrity towards family members or others? I think there's clearly a greater good here that needs to be satisfied, especially when it can be argued that the non-disclosure agreement was obtained under duress.

Convergence of the Secular and Religious Opposition to Impact

Formerimpactgrad,

Amen! You say Impact makes a lot of promises that it fails to deliver. You have just stated one of the Evil One’s main characteristics. There are plenty of cogent arguments to be made using the secular approach. I only bring in religious argument because Impact is a religion. Truth will never be in conflict with itself. I see a convergence of arguments here, all coming to the same conclusion you made, and that is that Impact sucks in simplest terms. There are many arrows in the anti-Impact quiver. Secular arrows will sting, but it will be the religious arrow that is lethal. As to Impact’s enchanted religious relics, blue/violet flames of protection, apostolic staffs, affirmations chanted etc., I have seen enough to confirm that it is all true. With freedom of religion being a constitutional right all this is OK with me. As you pointed, out it is their causing of mental and emotional undesirable side effects that are intolerable. The hypocrisy of “the process” is also intolerable.

Robert Paisola did say one big truth. Impact is truly unique in the world. The unique attribute however is only that it has headquarters located at the center of gravity of the LDS Church. No other LAGT can make that claim. They gave up running trainings all over the place. Why? Looks to me like they optimized for morphing the training to slip under the radar of the LDS members, who really don’t understand their own religion in too many cases, and getting the maximum return on investment. My first impression of Quest was that it was analogous to going to a slaughter house rather than a hospital for a brain tumor removal. The slaughter house has the tools to do the job quickly, but what about the undesirable side effects?

Hopeful

Hopeful,

Lethal in what way? I have no problem with anyone bringing up LDS opposition to LGATs, I have cited the letter myself in this very forum, however I would guess that at least 50% of the trainees are either non-LDS or at the very least non-practicing. While the religious concerns are very valid there are a number of people who read this forum who won't care in the slightest about the opinions of the LDS church.

While I don't believe its important (or even possible) to placate everyone with every single post, I do want to provide other sides of the argument, even though it is a repetition, because most people won't read the whole thread. While some people may find the 2Nephi information interesting and useful, others may push the back button immediately if they can't find anything non-religious (or at least non-LDS) in nature.

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question lady
I think it serves their agenda, which harms people by:

* making people feel like they are doing something wrong by revealing what happened.

* preventing analysis of how the brainwashing is carried out

* perpetuates a mystique around the training, and various levels thereof

* creates a sense of "us" versus "them"

* promotes "bonding" with the group members.

I think it is like the promise of secrecy a child molester extracts from his victim. It is only by speaking the truth that the victim can become free. The promise serves the pernicious agenda of the abuser, and does not serve the victim in any way.

Nonetheless, I understand that getting to the point where one feels comfortable speaking could be a long process which should not be forced.

Well put! And good analogy of a child molester. Yes, the vow of secrecy serves only to protect the abuser. The sickness is piled layer upon layer. After taking a good, hard look at the lgat layers I have come to think that every single thing about them is sick & twisted. In the early part of my departure from the lgat, while I was beginning to see some serious flaws in logic and reality in the doctrine I also thought there were some good aspects. I still didn't know about the mind control feature.

When I learned about the manipulation and deception I was shocked. It's been a process of coming to terms with the fact that nothing done by the lgat was for the stated purpose of improving participant's lives. The entire so-called course was a sham. It's just layers of sick, manipulative deception piled high and deep. That's all I see, the more I look. No matter what a so-called teaching [i:8f0eefdece]appeared[/i:8f0eefdece] to be, there is a hidden and sinister purpose for it.

The LGAT LIE. ONE CONTINUOUS SOLID LIE, appearances notwithstanding.

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skeptic
That's all I see, the more I look. No matter what a so-called teaching [i:82f23a1696]appeared[/i:82f23a1696] to be, there is a hidden and sinister purpose for it.

The LGAT LIE. ONE CONTINUOUS SOLID LIE, appearances notwithstanding.

Exactly. That is why any type of appeal to this "integrity" and "be your word" nonsense one adheres to with regards to LGAT content or processes has no application when dealing with these monsters.