thank you so much for posting this
I have felt like something was wrong with me for the last 5 years after leaving this group, like I was the only one that didn't "get it"

feldspar, how are you doing five years later. What made you want to join, and what made you leave MKP? Did you have any of the things I posted about happen to you?

I was surprised by your post. You are the first person I have ever seen that actually was a member, then left. Most of what I have learned has been from posts here. However, they are from spouses, or people who have not physically been.

Welcome. I am also new to this forum.

Please don't thank me for posting this, I'm shocked to be the first to do this. We need to find similar documents for the Women Within movement so we can see the overall ideological perspective of the creators of this monster.

feldspar, please share all you can about your experiences with this group - for example - how typical is what I am posting to your experience? If you are not up for that, then no problem.

Seems like we newbies are the most interested in this MKP side of the LGAT phenomenon! Welcome both, I'm new to this darker world too! before being approached by these guys I never realised what was going on around the world! Too stuck trying to expose political mind control I guess!

[b:8dcfc951af][Note: what follows is a summary of the previous post due to a copyright protest from MP. This summary is done for the purpose of criticism and is within "fair use" guidelines.][/b:8dcfc951af]

"Sunday Morning Wake Up" for MP initiates.

Staffers are instructed to "greet the men with respect, as New Brothers" and to be "Pleasant, friendly, quiet, trusting, caring for New Brothers."

New brothers are watched as they "get ready" and are told to "wear their talismans."

Sunday MP staffers are "to reunite the whole community of men in sacred space...[where] men enjoy the new learning from ritual space as what true prayer might be all about."

MP considers all the intitiates "brothers" once they have completed their Saturday night process.

What follows are carefully scripted and choreographed talks, rituals and exercises.

One ritual includes facing in "seven directions," which "prerepares men for their Integration Training which uses them as a theme for 7 of the 8 weeks."

There is emphasis on "Unity with New Warrior Brothers."

And there is also a "Renaming Ceremony...To reconnect each man proudly with his male lineage and bless his family name."

New brothers then "get to know each other by their given names."

This all can be seen as establishing a new identity for the "brother" and a group identity, which then includes him.

A number of rituals emphasize this theme, using the new name repeated in various rites.

MP then adds "a cognitive understanding to the experimental learning as the initiates proceed through their initiation."

There is much "repetition" required and expected in this process.

The "context statement" is repeated.

"As a visionary organization these ideas may likely be ahead of our their time and challenging to understand. Therefore we present this exact context three times during the weekend. This maximizes the possibility of men truly understanding it, which empowers them by grounding the cognitive with the experimental learning."

The "New Warrior Context" is then recited, which defines what MP considers "reality," proper contextual thinking, perception etc. etc.

This runs along the lines of other LGATs that teach participants that they can and should create their own reality.

MP says that "Shadow's Mission...to know their "Mission" as their own reality creation and recognize that their Shadows (another creation) may stand in the way."

MP introduces a "cognitive level of understanding," which supposedly "balances the head and heart learning and takes it deeper."

This involves "visualization techniques.

They recite the "Theory of `new' Warriorship" aloud.

About how a "'new' warrior is a man who lives his mission. The New Warrior is a mission driven man."

MP then links this sense of "mission" to a composite philosophy that allegedly includes "Tibetan tradition" and "Yaqui Indian tradition."

the "Visualization Process" includes a musical background "close your eyes" session. It's time to remember the "little boy" again etc. etc.

The previous day is redundantly repeated so it sinks in.


Empasis on internalizing and repeating your "mission."

Very carefully scripted and detailed exericises that are timed out to the minute.

Coming up is what MP calls the "'good bye" experience."

A formal process of repeating your "mission" and hearing others repeat theirs, then saying "good bye." This "produces a powerful feeling of Knowing" for the "brothers and new warriors."

Now its time for "remembering" (repeating) the "'Hero's Journey' experience," which supposedly both "empowers" and "diempowers"-- perhaps a bit of a double bind situation.

Again, this is a choreographed exercise on man hanging on another's back representing his "Shadow" that "can trip [him] up." The initiates are taught to keep the "Shadow" off their back and in from of their face so that they "can keep an eye on him."

There is then the "Team Process" to repeat exercises focused on "Shadows" working "toward clarity until it feels right." Followed by more repetition about "their mission."

The goal or "Final outcome" is to have "one clear, deeply felt 'mission' statement and awareness of Shadows."

More time "for men to share feelings and experiences in a new open way." And they are to "feel each other's energy and transformation."

Staffers are to be "Loving and interested in these men."

"This process sets a model for the Integration Group 'check in' process.

More sharing in "morning circle" about "any feeling, experiences, or dreams they may have had..."

Staffers are told to "let the new brothers do the talking."

"Qualities of Warriorship" include "New awareness...Beyond Fear...Trusting and Open..."

It's time to get ready for "Cock Talk."

This includes "outrageous fun in throwing off shame and social inhibitions." And the men get "undressed."

This process seems to get the MP initiates into a higher a state of suggestability. They are told to "get playful with wild abandon."

Again, carefully choreographed and scripted process that includes "dance music."

MP leader says, "We invite you into a conversation about men's bodies and sexuality."

According to MP "5 minutes of hard rock'n is usually enough!"

Leader and staff "model" behavior "taking clothes off to the music," which "can be wild and playful."

After "everyone appears sufficently energized and naked" the men sit down in another circle for yet another talk.

MP alllows that "Any man may refuse to take off his clothing off.
Let there be no coercion" and he can still join the circle."

However, given the environment, modeled behavior and seeming peer pressure, it's probably most men end up complying.

MP says tells its initiates that "We live in a society which believes that sexuality is counter to spiritual growth...We therefore have few, if any, role models of healthy sexual expression."

"Shadow" is relegated the negative baggae of sexual repression, and "Shadow" should be overcome.

MP tells the men to "sexually rediscover" themselves.

And that "Doing this, we see a penis which can stand tall and hard and serve to give pleasure and bring forth life itself." But there is also "a penis that can be soft and very vulnerable."

It's time to begin "sharing...shame and pain around sexual issues."

Of course all this sounds like group therapy, but accoording to MP it's "education."

Because if it were described as therapy, which is what it seems to be, particpants might reasonbly expect qualified clinical professionals, such as certified, licensed counselors, rather than MP staffers/volunteers with no specific credentialed training and no meaningful legal accountability.

MP recognizes that its process can be "frightening," and result in "pain." Participants may ben "want to cry."

Shouldn't professinals properly qualified to handle, evaluate and maintain safety duing such a stressful process?

Instead MP offers "sex jokes to loosen them up" and then "flip it" to manipulate the men through "a cognitive context which makes the container a little safer."

The leader introduces the "cock talking stick...Phallos the sacred erect cock."

The men hold Phallos to speak about their innermost secrets and pain regarding sex.

Sex therapy?

No it's "education."

The men are encouraged to "let go...[about] sexuality...in front of...brothers."

"Teaching Themes" include "The god between your legs...Cock power as life giving only when hard and thrusting...Masculinity & femininity: Different models of intimacy...Women love to be with powerful men...Homoerotic Feelings: I can love a man without feeling sexual...Homophobia fear around sex and intimacy confusion."

Sound like something for a Ph.D psychologist with specific training and a focus upon sex therapy would be truated to discuss and help someone through.

Never mind.

MP staffers/volunteers can do this without any meaningful specific credentials, licensing or clinical experience. And wihout a licensing board or agency to supervise them, little if any meaningful accountability if it doesn't work out or there are serious problesms/after effects.

4. Intimacy:
Fucking vs. "making love".
The way to intimacy is not through sex but through communication from the heart.

feldspar, how are you doing five years later. What made you want to join, and what made you leave MKP? Did you have any of the things I posted about happen to you?

5 years later still married, wonderful wife and kids, but not a day goes by I don't think about this group. I joined because my business partner kept on and on about getting me to go. Basically just wouldn't give it up until I finally agreed. Found out later that the only reason he really wanted me to go was so that he could "staff" a weekend as a facilitator. At that time you weren't allowed to staff the weekend unless you brought a "recruit". I think that may have changed now.

What made me leave? I didn't really connect well with a follow up group when I got back and after about a week away from their "support" I realized how silly the whole thing was. Leaving the group took a little while longer but I mentally left it about that time. To be honest the events that followed sound so crazy that I don't really feel comfortable posting them. At this time.

In terms of the things that happened on the weekend, I'd rather not be too specific. They make you sign a confidentiality statement and frankly I'm still a little paranoid about this group. Suffice it to say that the posts preceding capture the spirit of the weekend. I don't recall anything like the post asking people to touch other's genitals, but generally these posts look pretty much on target

I understand this group does seem a little crazy. At first I was afraid to post on this board because of possible retaliation against my husband. I finally decided a bunch of kooks was not going to intimidate me. I am only speaking of myself. I can understand why you feel as you do.

What made you start looking up cult information. Was it MKP, or something else.

My husband never attended I group. However, for several weeks he received numerous phone calls from several men strongly urging him to go. He got into this mess from his 12 step sponsor. This man also has continued putting pressure on him to renew his involvement.

Finally this past week, he told sponsor he only wanted to do step work. He did not want to discuss MKP. His sponsor said OK, we will see.

I have to admit I am curious as to what happened when you stopped going, but only if and when you become comfortable sharing.

Thank you for coming here and sharing what you have. If you are married, what did your wife think of MKP?

what 2 do?

Definitely started looking into cults because of MKP. I couldn't understand why after such a brief involvement I felt so much fear of the men in the group and had so many recurrent thoughts/anxiety about the group. I was amazed how little information was available on the internet about this group. I stumble onto LGAT terminology about 1 year ago and then things began to clear up for me. I am actually surprised that there have not been any positive posts on this thread re MKP. If you look at other threads on other boards, inevitably someone with a variation of wolf will shut down the thread with glowing posts about MKP and explanations that anyone unhappy with their experience "just wasn't ready". Also surprised that no one has posted threats regarding posting of their training manuals.

In terms of what my wife thought of the group, She really has only a vague idea of what went on. I sent her this link yesterday so that she could read it. She knows that it changed me and not for the better. I am hoping reading this thread will help her understand.

You might find some more information/support at this yahoo group if you haven't already been there. I didn't find this group particularly supportive, but you can see the type of group speak pressure that you're likely to encounter.

[groups.yahoo.com]

also try to be creative with your google searches. for example try mkp + wicca and see what you find.

good luck

This is exploitation of a belief no different to another cult and its sad to see people hurt...
no beleif should be exploiting people full stop..
What is so interesting is the lack of understanding by the leaders of these types of groups...
planetary life is in circles and they will eventually suffer their own actions but how many other people suffer before they are exposed and suffer them selves...
i hope with all my heart that you or anyone effected by the actions of these people, can get beyond those effects and resume a safe and secure life...
i have been invited to join a coven and refuse to follow some one elses ideas, i wish to enjoy wicce and accept what i feel is right and not what others tell me thats right...
lets hope others will escape these groups and can get back to a safe and secure life away from such groups...they are part of the destruction of human kinds compassion and need to let live..........

feldspar, I went to the yahoo group you posted of. Could only read the intro page w/o registering. I have registered and am awaiting acceptance.

I am curious as to why you have not shared very much about MKP with your wife before now. Did you think she would not understand. I do not think my husband wanted to share, but by the time I started digging and found info, asked him about it, he started sharing. Oddly, enough it takes me finding more info like the manual talking about the "c" talks before acknowledges that also went on.

He says he does not want to be involved anymore, but is still skeptical about the information I have discovered. Several times in the past few weeks he has stated "maybe I should have continued with the Igroup". Part of him felt he did good work there, and does not want to admit this group of men are not what they represent themselves to be. At least I think that is what maybe going on.

Thank you for the thread to the yahoo group.

Is this bringing up bad memories for you to discuss this here? I hope not.

feldspar, I spent some time reading on the yahoo web you gave. Pretty eye opening stuff. I do understand what you mean about that forum. A lot of bickering between a handful of people, with neither side giving an inch.

I had never heard of the sex toy used in Ctalk. That seemed to gross me out. I was surprised that the men would hold it while speaking. I guess by that point so many barriers had been broken down, they just went along with whatever was suggested.

The information I have received in these last few weeks from the people here has been so helpful. It is hard to resist an "enemy" that you do not know. I understand the phrase - keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. I do not think my husband will ever associate with this group again. I am one of the lucky ones.

I keep thinking of all the women, who have read the literature and blindly believe it. You have to admit the literature, and the websites have everything a wife would want for her husband. This has taught me a very valuable lesson. Be wary of anyone who promises the sun, moon, and stars and a life of perfection if you just follow their path. There will always be a hidden agenda behind those promises.

Quote
what2do
feldspar, I spent some time reading on the yahoo web you gave. Pretty eye opening stuff. I do understand what you mean about that forum. A lot of bickering between a handful of people, with neither side giving an inch.

I've got on too - and posted a couple of comments so should get some hairs on end - I think the best thing I can do there is promote some real debate!

Quote
what2do
I had never heard of the sex toy used in Ctalk. That seemed to gross me out. I was surprised that the men would hold it while speaking. I guess by that point so many barriers had been broken down, they just went along with whatever was suggested.

Mind control in action.

Quote
what2do
The information I have received in these last few weeks from the people here has been so helpful. It is hard to resist an "enemy" that you do not know. I understand the phrase - keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. I do not think my husband will ever associate with this group again. I am one of the lucky ones.

I trully hope he doesn't - this is the most overpriced commodity I have ever come across!

Quote
what2do
I keep thinking of all the women, who have read the literature and blindly believe it. You have to admit the literature, and the websites have everything a wife would want for her husband.

Clever semantics are at play with these people, very slick presentation. Completely empty rhetoric when any thought applied! Reminds me of the UK tory and labour parties - and the republicans on your side of the water!

Quote
what2do
This has taught me a very valuable lesson. Be wary of anyone who promises the sun, moon, and stars and a life of perfection if you just follow their path. There will always be a hidden agenda behind those promises.

We are but small people, disposable. I thought I was a cynic that had come across all the deprived human conditions - how did I miss all this?? - though as I have stated before, the UK seems a little less prone to these LGAT's - for now - we always seem to import everything a few years later!
There are a lot of people desperate to cling to one ideology or another, be it Christian, Buddhist, Socialist, Capitalist, Nihilst - is this the inherent human weakness? The need to comply to a higher power? We are the higher power!!!! When will we get over this collective madness?!