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bigboyx5
That was a very detailed and well written post, thank you for taking the time to avoid the knee jerk reaction. Since the men were ordered to take the "treatment" not an educational weekend, and you know them personally, could you provide some concrete details. I think a man of integrity would step up and post the names of those involved. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't trial decisions public domain. like I said earlier stating "I know" without proof is worthless.
I'm sensing a parsing of my words, so let's back up a bit. My original statement was not meant to be a legalistic technically exact statement as if I was on trial. I talked to one man late last night (who was at the trial because the judge told him he was going to do this) and the process was as I stated in a second or third blog. It was a choice IN THAT SPECIFIC CASE of taking an evening anger management class for 12 weeks, taking the Weekend or spending some time in jail. I have NO clue whether judges have complete latitude or not.
Nice try on the "man of integrity", you will get no names from me unless I have their permission. If you judge my opinion or statements are 'worthless' then ignore them and if that is the way a blog works or there is an agreement that I didn't read carefully then I will simply let this forum be.
Great point on the trial decisions being public, go to it!
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bigboyx5
Who is doing the ongoing divorce study?
We actually advertised for a part time research guy with some pay (it was all volunteer before) and a University researcher type guy was chosen. Check the website to see if his name is public. I really don't know.
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bigboyx5
I'd like to hear some more about the Cree who have attended, since I have a few "niichii' in the first nations, specifically what they thought of the symbolism etc.
One major group from a place called Hobeema Alberta (Central Alberta)and another man who is published and is from southern Alberta, he is well known in that world for his writings and research at a University there. I was responsible for that connection, I was literally standing and taking in a First Nations Festival in downtown Edmonton back in 1994 and I happened to notice a man who was talking to reporters. Later I talked to him and we became friends. He was VERY intrigued at the notion of a 'male initiation' since his people had lost their rites many years ago. He went and 300 men followed over 10 years. That man is now our International Vice Chair.
Honestly the results have been spotty with the Cree nation, there is a core of men who have made a big difference but a lot of the men who took the training (the band paid the full fee) didn't get much out of it.
Flip side was the interesting connection between the two worlds. I was in a coma in 1997 with a viral form of meningitis and some of the Cree leaders came to my bed twice and did a ritual healing dance around my bed. My daughter recounted that she wasn't surprised but my mother who had flown in from the east was freaked out. She knew I was involved in men's work but had no idea it was like that.
At some level I think that reaction is what causes most of the difficulty with MKP. Imagine if the Cree wrote up a 'protocol' for the healing dance and it talked about 'calling in spirits' or something like that. Christians like me might freak and be offended. Instead I choose to try to build bridges with other people of faith and I don't expect them to change, I just try to understand and find common ground.
I only have a few minutes but Ginah (sp?) had a piece about how we deal with women and found some words that said something like "women don't understand men's ritual". Sorry Ginah, I don't know how to go to that post without losing this one.
First, I have three versions on our protocols and those words do not appear in any of them. However, I will admit a kernal of truth and that's probably how someone rewrote what was originally written.
The more correct way to say it is some women don't understand the male psyche very well, instead they understand what they like and don't like, but not the deep running needs for some of the 'weird' ways we do what we do. A branch of feminism is not very male friendly and they have demonized the male need for roughhousing , for reverence of a different variety, for even initiation which has 1000's of years of history AND a modern history of abuse like in some fraternities.
I have met literally HUNDREDS of women over the years who DON'T want to know and admit to their own private rituals. And I have met women who are almost psychotic wanting to know every detail, every word.
For those on this list who know what I'm talking about, these words are more than enough. For those of you on this list who are offended by this, no amount of words or studies will suffice.
I pray we find ways to build bridges and to understand. Also, the work against cults is vital and important, keep it up even if I think you're off base on MKP! :(
Keep well all
GFTR99
PS I'm getting more familiar with this format called blogging, hope it's more readable now