help us, you are right. However, I have now developed an "I do not really give a sh*t" attitude. I can have that attitude because my husband did not stay involved with them. I know we are identifiable from my postings. And the local group here is a really big one.

Margie, you have an awful amount on your plate. I have dealt with a great deal of tragedy with my youngest son (19) and drugs, and some terrible truths about his younger life came out while he was in rehab. Unfortunately while he was going to AA, he was constantly bombarded with men from MKP urging him to go. My son will probably be in therapy, and on numerous psychotropic drugs for the rest of his life. The reason for this is not his drug use, but what drove him to choose drugs. He was even told by one man, "if you just join MKP, go to NWTA, you can give up the drugs and psychiatrist" forever.

My son has ben suicidal off and on since he was an early teen. If he ever went to NWTA, with the issues I know he has, I would be so fearful of him committing suicide. But these bastards never let up on him. He was even angry at us because we would not pay the money for him to go. He eventually stopped going to AA. He appears to be doing well. He is working and going to school, so I stay hopeful. It is a damn shame he cannot attend AA w/o the pressure of MKP.

All I can say to you is "knowledge is power". Hopefully, your husband will be like many men who go for a while, then quit. I was one of the lucky ones. My husband attended NWTA, attended graduation, and never went back. But that was because of what happened to him at NWTA. He never felt comfortable with that group again. However, they hounded him non-stop to join I-group. He finally got firm with them, and told them to stop calling. If he ever felt like joining I-group, he would. They finally stopped after he put it to them bluntly.

You need to continue to be strong. Right now your husband is in the hands of a group that is not family friendly. I hope you can find an institution for your son. That must be heartbreaking for you. Be cautious, they might try to recruit your son thru your husband. Many men in MKP think it is a cure-all for everything.

I have not received any complaints that would support the idea that MKP goes after it's critics in an agressive personal way that is dangerous.

They have made legal threats regarding copyright, after someone posted the MKP manual on this message board. But after it was converted within "fair use" standards there were no further legal letters.

FYI--MKP is not my primary suspect regarding the DDOS attacks.

I don't think Margie has anything to worry about by posting here.

The UK is ripe for cults - Landmark, Scientology, and Mankind Project.

The latest reports are from a newletter associated with Alternatives - a programme of relatively benign courses, workshops and seminars based at St. James Church in Piccadilly, London, UK. A few of the workshops are Osho-based 'tantra' - but it also appears that Alternatives is sponsoring the Mankind Project's 'New Warrior' weekends. This is appalling and I wonder if St. James Church relaises that guys have committed suicide after a 'New Warriors' weekend.

[www.thechangingtimes.co.uk]

[www.thechangingtimes.co.uk]

[www.thechangingtimes.co.uk]

[www.thechangingtimes.co.uk]

[www.thechangingtimes.co.uk]

[alternatives.org.uk]

Help_us, thank's for the advice. I understand what you are saying, but I have already spilt the milk. Soo, nothing to do but trudge on. I'm already mired in muck up to my knees.. a little milk won't hurt, too much[/!

what2do, are you saying that MK has invaded AA?? I think I may have read that somewhere on this board, about where they go to recruit. There is such a wealth of info to process and remember). This is even more awful than I had imagined! I AM a recovering alcoholic, and have been sober for 20 years. I do not know what I would have done without the support of my husband, good insurance (for real therapy) AND AA to see me through the hardest of times. I am so very sorry to hear that your son and others who are in such physical and emotional need and seeking help are being bombarded. Once a person seeks out AA they are at "their bottom". There is nothing left but perhaps a small spark that says, maybe, just maybe I can do this.

I am more than disgusted.

Before I got into therapy and AA, I was seeking. A drunk, but never the less a "seeking" drunk. After a few weeks of intense "bible study" witha group of women I ended up in a 'church' where I was baptized. Even though my mind was in a state of helplessness, I asked too many questions. One Sunday the preacher did a sermon about "The sister with a tongue of fire amongst us" :twisted:

ginah,
As a WOMAN, I would like to state I am NOT a BITCH, I am an ASSERTIVE woman, and proud of it.[/quote] (I hope this comes through as your quote, cause I really like it)

I will forever be THE SISTER WITH THE TONGUE OF FIRE... AND DARN PROUD OF IT TOO!!!
:D :D
Rick, I am grateful for your encouragement. Thank you!

I have heard of many different ways that men have become "turned-off" by MKP. For myself, it was my wifes honest questioning of why is MKP rules "trumping" our wedding vows.

Other ideas of exposing MKP is to explain the unethical behavior MKP has illustrated that is documented in this forum and the Yahoo forum.

The latest example of unethical behavior...

I was recently confronted by an MKP individual via email threatening me to be in breach of contract of the confidentiality agreement. He, I'm assuming, used specific information in a very unethical and threatening tone. Was he acting alone or under the direction of MKP? That question does not matter to the fact that he did this action under the name of MKP.

I wish you the best for your future.

Camp Muir, I appreciate you talking about how your wife's honest questions helped you to reexamine your MKP involvement.

Every time, I start out nice we end up argueing more and more and I am the one who gets angry. Last night I blew it. I yelled, I cried.. I feel that he keeps giving me these "off center" answers and that he is blase/indifferent about any of the "real" answers. I AM the one who looses my temper, and I KNOW it is of no good.

He did agree to view some material or have anyone I choose to come over and talk with him that is not affiliated with MKP.
He also brought up to me that he had told me about the MKTW and had left the paper work laying ut for me to read and I hadn't, and he was right. I trusted his friend, etc, etc.. My fault.

I was reading one of your posts where you said something about your therapist recomending NW. Which brought me to a "list of 21 criteria" written by Help_us.
Thank you all so much, I have more digging to do and actually have a smile on my face.

Is there anything written here about why so many therapists consider LGATS fine and dandy and even recommend them?

Something that came to mind is, how do we know if we are dealing with a NW or WW in our everyday business, health, and family decisions? I guess we don't unless we ask... and get a truthful reply. There are so many ads for "this" or "that" kind of healing, or therapy, or health related issues.

I do not want to support these people in any way. I do not want to hire a NW/WW to work on my house, fix my car, or teach my child at a school sponserd summer day camp!

I sort of question why I bother coming back to this site. A New Warrior friend and I were discussing this site recently and he followed it for a while then was "banned" because he simply couldn't see how these judgments about MKP hold water.

If anyone gets this message you will see a recurring cycle in this thread:

Hurtgirl#1: Makes a post that she can't handle it that her boyfirend/lover/husband is making changes in his life and she blames MKP for the fact he is confronting things whith her that he hadn't handled before; and she feels she is losing control of his life.

Hurthgirl#2: Commisserates and shares her pain of when her boyfriend/husband took control of his life -- all because of those nasty manipulative brainwashing MKP guys

Disgruntled Warrior: Chimes in with something about how he didn't like the weekend; or he had a falling out with some of the guys and felt "burned" -- discloses some of the processes out of context to try and make people feel sorry for him because he did something that was kind of "off the wall" and feels bad about it.

Non-Disgruntled Warrior: Calls the game for what it is -- essentailly a self pitying cycle

Hurtgirls & disgruntled warrior: Take anyone's disagreement with judgmetns against MKP as proof the Non-Disgruntled warrior is brainwashed and really needs help.

Non-Disgruntled Warror: Saying he's just honestly sharing what he sees.

New Hurtgirl comes in -- the cycle starts over.

Wherever you are in this cycle -- read this and know this is basically what happens here over and over again -- and it seems to fuel this pseudoauthority of certain pepole who like to deem themselves "experts" on problems that just don't really exist.

I have to judge it's a bit neurotic.

With that I'm out.

To whom it may concern:

There is a repeated pattern to posts here by MKP supporters.

They assign blame over and over again to anyone or anything but MKP, e.g. in the post above it's "hurt girl," "disgruntled warrior" etc.

What "duncacs" and other spinmeisters attempt to do is apologize away the fallout from MKP training. And they refuse to address in any meaningful way how the MKP program itself, i.e. its design and dynamics, hurts people.

Start at the beginning of this thread...

See [board.culteducation.com]

Note the manual excerpts, which to almost anyone other than MKP supporters, demonstrates that the group manipulates the men that participate in its program without their knowledge.

Nothing much about MKP is spontaneous, but rather contrived and carefully scipted and managed.

Also note the parallels between what MKP does and the techniques that typify "coercive persuasion."

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also note the persistent and consisten pattern of problems described by a clinical psychologist regarding large group awareness training (LGAT) or what he prefers to call "mass marathon training."

See [www.culteducation.com]

If you follow through this thread from the beginning you will read the same apologies posted by MKP devotees over and over again.

"That's not my experience" is a frequent refrain, and then the apologist offers a personal testimonial praising MKP.

Then they say "it's not for everyone."

At times some MKP apologists have gone so far as to offer that a particular leader or devotee might be at fault, but they will never assign any responsibility to the program itself.

All this despite the deeply very troubled history of LGATs such as Landmark Education, Sterling Institute of Relationship, Lifespring, Impact Training, NXIVM, etc. etc.

See [www.culteducation.com]

LGATs historically have generated complaints, lawsuits over personal injuries and bad press over the years.

Also see [board.culteducation.com]

You can view the large amount of complaints about LGATs at this message board.

What is evident is that LGATs cause very serious problems on a continuing basis.

And if you look through the various threads about them on this message board, their supporters often sound the same.

That is, they refuse to address issues and offer the same sing-song mantra regarding their "experience," blame the victims rather than accept that the program itself might be responsible.

I have never "controlled" my husband's LIFE, nor he mine.

My husband and myself decisions in a loving partnership of marriage.

Our lives are intertwined.

It is sad that duncacs doesn't seem to know the difference between marriage and control.