I want to follow-up on Escaped's post and say that there is hope. I have been through alot emotionally and spiritually as a result of my Radiant Life experience. I have been so messed up that I have at many times been downright antigod. I read the posts on here for at least a year and only got on because someone was posting and literally making fun of and discounting the hurting. I felt I needed to speak up. It has taken me about a year to get to the point of opening up on here somewhat. Just know all of you who are angry and bitter that it can change. I can't say all of the anger and bitterness is out of me but since DejaVu and Ringbarer have come on here I have talked alot of this out and am much more receptive to healing and not transfering my Radiant Life experience on the shoulders of Jesus. I have to come to the realization that it is not him. Anyway, despite these changes beginning in me, I want to be here to help those that are in deep and want out. I want to let you know that there is a way out, just make the move. Come here and tell your story if you need to. My heart cries at the post about Kevin Reta. So much lost for so little. You know the old saying.......... when the going gets tough the tough get going. And I don't mean Kevin, I mean those supposedly there to support him, his pastor for one. Anyway, thats it for now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2008 01:39PM by whatajoke.

Quote
lifeisafunnything
I was being a little sarcastic about how I feel about wanting to show them up a little. Mostly joking though.

Fantastic postings! I appreciate your cander in how you tell a story.

Joking & Humor is somthing I have to use to keep my head about me when I have witnessed so much distructive teaching.

free2beme again an excelent point about freedom in Christ.
For me a former member of RLC gave me a CD with a message from a pastor out of Arizona called TrueFaced. Listening to his explanations and illistrations of what Gods grace is like vs. working for acceptance and merrit badges at rlc started my journey out of rlc. It helped me realize that the preformance base love is what I was working so hard at acheving at rlc that I could not be myself.

the book TrueFaced is about learning to trust God once again.
I would encourage any body to give the CD a listen and or watch the video. I don't have a link for you to click on but if you google "TrueFaced" you'll find several links one is on "godtube.com"

another source I have found to be so informative and helpful is a small little church called Open Door Fellowship. www.odfchurch.org down load the messages called the "Grace Siries" there is a lot of teaching out of Romans 3-8 that really helped me undo so much of Tonys false teachings.

I have said this before regarding Tonys relationships with people they simply don't last very long before he has taken advantage or hurt some body.
I look back at the neighborhood where he lives at one time there was over 13 families from rlc living there. I remember Tony talking about how people live like prisoners in there homes never knowing there neighbors. But ask Mike & Vicki or Jim & Linda or Russ & Marie Crocco when was the last time Tony ever walked over and said hi? the sad thing is his mom & dad live next to Mike & Vicki and yet you rarely see any one going back and forth. Tony drives his car into the Garague and hides in is house.

its just sad

I was talking with a close friend recently about this forum, they also used to attend RLC. I asked them what they thought about this forum, about what people were saying, what they thought about Tony, etc. I was surprised to find them in a neutral position about it all. While they knew things were wrong, they also believed that most of what has been done was not directly connected with Tony and the fact that he is the central figure of the church is why he has been so scrutinized. They brought up the point that Tony teaches at times in a round about kind of way, which can lead others to percieve it differently than he meant it (which i can agree with). Their main point is that we are not Tony and cannot know what was and is going through his head when he says a certain thing, or does something crazy like barge into a prayer meeting like he did. They basically just went on to argue that most of the things that have been done to hurt people didn't come directly from Tony, but others. Leadership perpetuated it, regular joes perpetuated it to gain some level of the authority that was being taught. They recounted many times where Tony actually publicly brought up the fact that he was tired of people trying to mimic him, and taking what he said out of context and teaching it in an unhealthy manner. And while I can halfway agree with all this and I see their point, it is very hard for me to believe that he didn't make it that way (either through ignoring it, or by secretly inviting it to happen). The fact that the ENTIRE structure of the church has the same philosophies and practices tells me that he has had his hand in this corruption for a long time. EVERY SINGLE PERSON doesn't misinterpret a teaching so much so that it finds its way into the everyday life of its members on its own. I have heard Tony defend himself against this issue. When he hears about someone teaching something "off", he immediatly blames the person. If multiple people are doing it, he questions the whole lot and can't figure out where they got that idea. I don't know. It doesn't make sense for it to have just happened because all these other people were just wrong. The church is laced with bad philosophies that came from somewhere. If not Tony, why wouldn't he make sure to get rid of it? It is his church, that he says he cares about, and he obviously knows it has major issues (he admitted to it). Why would his only response be to shrug his shoulders and say "It's them."? Wouldn't someone who really cares, try to shake things up, address people, remove people, SOMETHING other than just blame?

I don't know. It's a lot to think about, to be honest. I can't get a full grip on it. I just want things to change. I put all my hope into this thing, this movement, just to watch it fall apart. I'm very sad and just unsure how to take it all. Sorry for the length.

Quote
lifeisafunnything
I was talking with a close friend recently about this forum, they also used to attend RLC. I asked them what they thought about this forum, about what people were saying, what they thought about Tony, etc. I was surprised to find them in a neutral position about it all. While they knew things were wrong, they also believed that most of what has been done was not directly connected with Tony and the fact that he is the central figure of the church is why he has been so scrutinized. They brought up the point that Tony teaches at times in a round about kind of way, which can lead others to percieve it differently than he meant it (which i can agree with). Their main point is that we are not Tony and cannot know what was and is going through his head when he says a certain thing, or does something crazy like barge into a prayer meeting like he did. They basically just went on to argue that most of the things that have been done to hurt people didn't come directly from Tony, but others. Leadership perpetuated it, regular joes perpetuated it to gain some level of the authority that was being taught. They recounted many times where Tony actually publicly brought up the fact that he was tired of people trying to mimic him, and taking what he said out of context and teaching it in an unhealthy manner. And while I can halfway agree with all this and I see their point, it is very hard for me to believe that he didn't make it that way (either through ignoring it, or by secretly inviting it to happen). The fact that the ENTIRE structure of the church has the same philosophies and practices tells me that he has had his hand in this corruption for a long time. EVERY SINGLE PERSON doesn't misinterpret a teaching so much so that it finds its way into the everyday life of its members on its own. I have heard Tony defend himself against this issue. When he hears about someone teaching something "off", he immediatly blames the person. If multiple people are doing it, he questions the whole lot and can't figure out where they got that idea. I don't know. It doesn't make sense for it to have just happened because all these other people were just wrong. The church is laced with bad philosophies that came from somewhere. If not Tony, why wouldn't he make sure to get rid of it? It is his church, that he says he cares about, and he obviously knows it has major issues (he admitted to it). Why would his only response be to shrug his shoulders and say "It's them."? Wouldn't someone who really cares, try to shake things up, address people, remove people, SOMETHING other than just blame?

I don't know. It's a lot to think about, to be honest. I can't get a full grip on it. I just want things to change. I put all my hope into this thing, this movement, just to watch it fall apart. I'm very sad and just unsure how to take it all. Sorry for the length.

Life ~ I hear what you are saying and I have often thought the same things. But, I had to look at the situation and analyze it two fold.

1. If the students, leaders, etc are to blame because of their misteachings from the teacher than might I ask what's wrong with the teacher? In other words if you send your child to school and they are unable to learn do you always look at the your child? I would say no. You have to look at the whole situation. Often times I have found that it was the teacher's methods and not my childs ability to learn.

2. In a corporate setting, or any other setting for that matter, if there is a leader who continues to have failure in his/her leadership below; what does that say about their leadership ability? I good leader steps up to his failures and does not pawn it off on other people. A good lead has and attitude of 'the buck stops here'. If this was a corporation, the stockholders would have ousted the Sr. Pastor a long time ago.

I will say this, I do not believe that Tony had ill intentions to begin with. I don't believe he has ill intentions now. I just think he has removed himself so much from the reality that he himself is believing a lie. Again, just my opinion.

Quote
lifeisafunnything
I was talking with a close friend recently about this forum, they also used to attend RLC. I asked them what they thought about this forum, about what people were saying, what they thought about Tony, etc. I was surprised to find them in a neutral position about it all. While they knew things were wrong, they also believed that most of what has been done was not directly connected with Tony and the fact that he is the central figure of the church is why he has been so scrutinized. They brought up the point that Tony teaches at times in a round about kind of way, which can lead others to percieve it differently than he meant it (which i can agree with). Their main point is that we are not Tony and cannot know what was and is going through his head when he says a certain thing, or does something crazy like barge into a prayer meeting like he did. They basically just went on to argue that most of the things that have been done to hurt people didn't come directly from Tony, but others. Leadership perpetuated it, regular joes perpetuated it to gain some level of the authority that was being taught. They recounted many times where Tony actually publicly brought up the fact that he was tired of people trying to mimic him, and taking what he said out of context and teaching it in an unhealthy manner. And while I can halfway agree with all this and I see their point, it is very hard for me to believe that he didn't make it that way (either through ignoring it, or by secretly inviting it to happen). The fact that the ENTIRE structure of the church has the same philosophies and practices tells me that he has had his hand in this corruption for a long time. EVERY SINGLE PERSON doesn't misinterpret a teaching so much so that it finds its way into the everyday life of its members on its own. I have heard Tony defend himself against this issue. When he hears about someone teaching something "off", he immediatly blames the person. If multiple people are doing it, he questions the whole lot and can't figure out where they got that idea. I don't know. It doesn't make sense for it to have just happened because all these other people were just wrong. The church is laced with bad philosophies that came from somewhere. If not Tony, why wouldn't he make sure to get rid of it? It is his church, that he says he cares about, and he obviously knows it has major issues (he admitted to it). Why would his only response be to shrug his shoulders and say "It's them."? Wouldn't someone who really cares, try to shake things up, address people, remove people, SOMETHING other than just blame?

I don't know. It's a lot to think about, to be honest. I can't get a full grip on it. I just want things to change. I put all my hope into this thing, this movement, just to watch it fall apart. I'm very sad and just unsure how to take it all. Sorry for the length.

I agree with all of what you said here. I do believe sometimes the teachings would come down through leadership as if it were a game of telephone.
The only issue I have with it is this. Tony is the senior pastor, it is his responsibility and the elders to make sure that things are taught to the people correctly. It poor leadership skills to blame people. Him and the Elders needs to take control of this. Plus he acted out all of these teachings himself, but when it seemed to be out of control, he wanted to say it was someone elses fault.
I don't know inside details about a lot of things, but there is an interesting trail of questions.
I am still curious as to why Pastor Scott McCullough is the listed Pastor for RLC Sacramento on the Church of God website.

lifeisafunnything...............your friend is definately entitled to their opinion and right to tell their perspective. I have seen similar things and thought the same things at times but when you factor in the overall and you see Tony in acts of manipulation and abuse then it all goes out the window. SOMA is a big one where he starts to hammer people. I definately do not agree with your friends conclusions. Also, reading the testimonies of Deja and Ringbarer show how manipulative and underhanded he is pittting people against people. I used to blame everyone but Tony but that is what Tony wants. Good manipulators are good blame shifters. If there are so many teaching it wrong then he is doing something wrong. There are also some major issues with the whole Sheparding thing and Spiritual Covering which he promotes big time.

I just have a couple more things to add that I was thinking about regarding your post and Tony:

Quote
lifeisafunnything
They brought up the point that Tony teaches at times in a round about kind of way, which can lead others to percieve it differently than he meant it (which i can agree with). Their main point is that we are not Tony and cannot know what was and is going through his head when he says a certain thing, or does something crazy like barge into a prayer meeting like he did.

Tony is not Jesus. Jesus is all knowing. Has your friend ever thought about why Tony teaches in a roundabout way? He is not all knowing and doesn't know how his roundabout message will be received. And I don't think the word of God would support this. He is hurting more people through his roundabout teaching. Only Jesus could do that because Jesus was in control. Pastor Tony is not in control, Jesus is. Also, maybe he teaches in a roundabout way because he doesn't want any accountability. Pastors in other churches preach the word directly and take accountability because it is not their words but Jesus". It is not meant to be a puzzle.



Why would his only response be to shrug his shoulders and say "It's them."? Wouldn't someone who really cares, try to shake things up, address people, remove people, SOMETHING other than just blame?

I hate to be presumpuous but when you get old and experience many situations and see alot you develop an instinct. Maybe it is wisdom. Maybe it is stupidity. I am guessing your friend might be one of the people in the church who has been hammered with tony's teachings in soma, fridays, and gap. His blame shifting was a recurrent theme. I can tell you from experience that when a pastor starts doing this he is very insecure about his kingdom and not in a good place. This happenned in the last church I was at. This church had issues which pale in comparison to RLC. Things were not going good. The pastor went to the point of bringing it up in a sermon and not taking any accountability. He yelled real loud that it wasn't his fault. This pastor was gone within 3 months because the elders recognized that they were in control of the churches administration and the pastor was accountable to them. The church found a new pastor and now is thriving. The pastor who shifted the blame, ran from the church. He eventually came back but not as a pastor as an administrator in the organization. Blameshifters are not meant to lead.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2008 03:40AM by whatajoke.

Iifeisafunnything,

I too have an acquaintance that speaks with the same ignorance. When I say ignorance, I do not say this with a negative tone, but from the real meaning of the word. Most people, even those who have some kind of close connection, have no idea of what is really taught and especially “IMPLIED”. Most of the young people, 16-25 years especially, spend a lot of time in his home and going out to coffee and dinner with him. They think that this gives them enititlment to relationship. Many actually think they “KNOW” him because of the time spent with him. Trust me…. This is far from truth. When he finally trusts you, he begins to “speak into you” things that would NEVER be shared in view of the whole. He also will tell you, “I am glad I can trust you”, with a STRONG implication of, “DON’T TELL ANYONE WHAT I AM ABOUT TO TELL YOU”.

See, a lot is taught in arenas like SOMA and Prophetic Cadre that is not taught in public settings. Most would not believe what is spoken in private. Things like; negative things about my wife, woman in general, boasting of congregation, jockeying of relationships through gossip leveraging, etc. Also, condition of covenant relationships and threat implications.

To most, Tony does not look like what he speaks is false. A lot of what is taught publically is VERY Godly and right on, if you can sort through all of the other stuff. Your friend may have been somewhat close to Tony but that does not mean they were trusted by him with things close to his heart. Once again, I do not believe Tony is malicious. I believe he doesn’t even know what he is implying most of the time. I think it is all birthed out of his own rightness with himself, accompanied with his own VERY strong convictions.

Quote: Their main point is that we are not Tony and cannot know what was and is going through his head when he says a certain thing, or does something crazy like barge into a prayer meeting like he did. They basically just went on to argue that most of the things that have been done to hurt people didn't come directly from Tony, but others. Leadership perpetuated it, regular joes perpetuated it to gain some level of the authority that was being taught. They recounted many times where Tony actually publicly brought up the fact that he was tired of people trying to mimic him, and taking what he said out of context and teaching it in an unhealthy manner. And while I can halfway agree with all this and I see their point, it is very hard for me to believe that he didn't make it that way (either through ignoring it, or by secretly inviting it to happen).

Note: We can tell what is going on in his head and heart to an extent. HOW? By what he speaks and by his actions as well as by the fruit that is birthed in others that have been closest to him. Also, Tony does pass the buck a lot of the time. He teaches STRONGLY, especially in Soma about “IMMITATION” and uses many examples. When a whole bunch of people begin to immitate, he throws it back and will teach that he never meant immitation of fashion or food or whatever. Yet in this, he always implies that we should not have preferences because we are Bond Slaves of Christ and Slaves do not have rights. So in return, people lay down even their “FASHION and FOOD” preferences and do what they have been told is right and “Submit and immitate”. This starts many fads like, Sprint Club for better health, Drinking of Soy milk instead of regular milk. Not using deoderant because it clogs your pores and gives you cancer, instead to use “natural products, praying at 5 in the morning for an hour so you can hear God, “courting” in relationships instead of dating, “community living”, demon deliverance, not to eat McDonalds and litterally call it evil, I could go on….. Remember, fads are started by someone. People want to be like Tony because he puts himself as a standard to follow.

Remember to all the readers who are “surfing”, Tony has always taught this; “EVERYTHING rises and falls on the bases of authority”. It all flows down. I strongly believe this teaching, even in my own household. So when your friends argue that it is not his fault, always remember that God held “LOT” accountable for his “Servants” arguing against Abraham. So much that Abraham knew that it was best to divide the land and go separate ways. Maybe Lot never conspired against Abraham to his servants, but what ever it was, by action, or speech, his servants probably would not have had attitude if Lot was right with Abraham. In this case of RLC and “others” like Brandon Miller being blamed and slandered by Tony to many in prophetic cadre, Soma and to me personally, it is a direct reflection on the part of Tonys leading. Hell, people make mistakes, but when they do, they need to make restitution for their wrongs. I litterally mean to every person. Than afterwords, to STOP doing it.

Anyhow, “LIAFT”, I just wanted to let you know that this is normal. Most will be ignorant and you can’t expect any more from them for now. Let them find their own path. Try not and argue the point. Just rest in confidence of what you know and have experienced. Know this, I do not even share my thoughts unless someone asks me and I can tell genuinly wants to know the truth.

-Ryan-

Here is something I was thinking about. If Tony has told Ryan that Matt is dangerous and Tony has told Matt that Ryan is dangerouos then isn't Tony accountable that he has dangerous people in leadership. The comments that Tony made to Ryan and Matt show his manipulation and abuse. You can believe what you want to believe. I am in no way saying that ryan and matt are dangerous. Just saying if that was Tony's belief and that was an elders belief (Greg Huths comment) and they put a person in leadership that they believe is dangerous then they are accountable for than. Sorry, ryan and matt. I was just using that as an example. These are the games Tony plays. If it is true that matt and ryan are dangerous and tony knows it then he has some responsibility for whatever destruction and abuse they cause. If it is not true and Tony was just saying it for his own reasons then what does that say about what kind of man Tony is. Either way it exposes Tony for what he is......... a pastor who has gone wayward and is caught up in his own ego. Wake up Tony and stop blaming everyone but yourself.

just food for thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2008 06:38AM by whatajoke.