DejaVu......thank you for everything you have brought to this forum. I understand everything has a time and a place. I also agree that Tony needs to have a radical change not just apologetic rhetoric. Deja you do not have to apologize for not sharing now, it is aok. The truth will ultimately reveal itself as it has been on this forum.

Your welcome!

Well, to know a little more about me. I was previously a very committed member of RLC. I loved God and wanted nothing more than to know him and follow him, give my life for him. When I came to RLC I was ready to do this and believed I had found a place that was perfect for it. I got connected, involved in everything I could. I went to the young adult ministry, to Gate groups, discipleship, I discipled people, I went to SOMA, ministry of Thanksgiving, the Gap, Friday Night Worship, all three Sunday services, early morning prayer groups, outreachs, plays, real life events...EVERYTHING. I was under the impression that if I missed something (anything), that I would miss God or what he was doing. So i was there 7 days a week for almost 4 years. I was given things and I gave things, I longed for someone to really love me, to father me and I thought that no one else would suffice but Tony. He was the epitome of what I wanted, and wanted to become. At times, he was this for me, but never very deep. He would act like he cared, but never without me coming to him. He knew my issues, but seemed to pass over me when it came to handing out relationships. I always thought it was just me, that I was just messed up beyond control. Long story short (kinda) I went through some things in my personal "walk", was told I had demons (that was the hokiest thing I have ever willingly put myself through) and was basically told that I wasn't getting in to heaven unless I did this, that and the other. I couldn't take it anymore. I literally stopped believing. I stopped caring. I thought everything people told me was a lie. I wanted nothing to do with church, the people in it, and sadly to say, I ended up wanting nothing to do with God. To this day I find it very hard to believe. I no longer want to live my life for God (which hurts so much, and scares the hell out of me at the same time) and any church I go into feels fake. When people tell me that they hear God, I automatically don't believe them and this comes directly from my interaction with Tony. He has driven home the fact that people are jacked up, misled and crazy. AND I BELIEVED HIM. Now I'm stuck in a world of disbelief (which is so unlike me). He really should know that a lot of people feel this way. No longer wanting to believe. That's sad.

In regards to a recent posting on NPD ( Narcissistic Personalitly Disorder ), I really thought this extensive article through Wikipedia will help many understand what we may have on our hands at RLC. PLEASE take a few minutes to read it. Notice my red highlights of irony. Also, the blue of interesting things to consider.

BTW: Though there is treatment and prognosis for it and that there is pharmacotherapy available, NPD patients rarely get it because they hardly ever believe they have it. This is why "IF" Tony may have this, he needs God to intervene. Whether or not you want to classify him with a syndrom or not is up to all of you. Howver, you cannot deny that these symptoms are very much the same as his. Atleast for those who no him good enough to see them. Many never get close enough to experience it though.


Narcissistic personality disorder ( NPD )
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV-R), the diagnostic classification system used in the United States, as "a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy."[[/color]1]


The narcissist is described as turning inward for gratification rather than depending on others and as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power and prestige.[[/color]2] Narcissistic personality disorder can be caused by receiving excessive praise and criticism in childhood, particularly from parental figures.
•
Classification

DSM-IV divides personality disorders into three clusters based on symptom similarities.[1] This clustering categorizes the Narcissistic personality disorder as a cluster B personality disorder, those personality disorders having in common an excessive sense of self importance. Also in that cluster are the Borderline personality disorder, the Histrionic personality disorder and the Antisocial personality disorder.
The ICD-10 (International Classification of Mental and Behavioural Disorders, published by the World Health Organisation in Geneva 1992) regards narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) as "a personality disorder that fits none of the specific rubrics". It relegates it to the category known as "Other specific personality disorders", which also includes the eccentric, "haltlose", immature, passive-aggressive, and psychoneurotic personality disorders.

DSM Criteria
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following[1]:
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Epidemiology
Lifetime prevalence is estimated at 1% in the general population and 2% to 16% in clinical populations. 50 to 75% of those with this diagnosis are men.[3]
Hypothetical causes

The etiology of this disorder is unknown according to Groopman and Cooper. However, they list the following factors identified by various researchers as possible factors.[3]
• An oversensitive temperament at birth
• Overindulgence and overvaluation by parents
• Valued by parents as a means to regulate their own self-esteem
• Excessive admiration that is never balanced with realistic feedback
• Unpredictable or unreliable caregiving from parents
• Severe emotional abuse in childhood
• Being praised for perceived exceptional looks or talents by adults
• "Excessive praise for good behaviors or excessive criticism for poor behaviors in childhood"

Some narcissistic traits are common and a normal developmental phase. When these traits are compounded by a failure of the interpersonal environment and continue into adulthood they may intensify to the point where NPD is diagnosed.[citation needed] It has been suggested[who?] that NPD may be exacerbated by the onset of aging and the physical, mental, and occupational restrictions it imposes as can most personality traits.[4][dubious – discuss]
Various clinical views

Pathological narcissism occurs over a broad spectrum of severity. In its more extreme forms, it is narcissistic personality disorder. NPD is considered to result from a person's belief that he or she is flawed in a way that makes the person fundamentally unacceptable to others [5]. This belief is held below the person's conscious awareness; such a person would typically deny thinking such a thing, if questioned. In order to protect themselves against the intolerably painful rejection and isolation that (they imagine) would follow if others recognised their supposedly defective nature, such people make strong attempts to control others’ view of them and behaviour towards them.
Psychologists commonly believe[weasel words] that pathological narcissism results from an impairment in the quality of the person's relationship with their primary caregivers, usually their parents, in that the parents were unable to form a healthy, empathic attachment to them.[citation needed] This results in the child conceiving of themselves as unimportant and unconnected to others. The child typically comes to believe that he or she has some defect of personality which makes them unvalued and unwanted [6].

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is isolating, disenfranchising, painful, and formidable for those diagnosed with it and often those who are in a relationship with them. Distinctions need to be made among those who have NPD because not each and every person with NPD is the same. Even with similar core issues, the way in which one's individual narcissism manifests itself in his or her relationships varies.
[citation needed]
To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen [4]. They may also demand certain behavior from their children because they see the children as extensions of themselves, and need the children to represent them in the world in ways that meet the parents’ emotional needs [7]. (For example, a narcissistic father who was a lawyer demanded that his son, who had always been treated as the "favorite" in the family, enter the legal profession as well. When the son chose another career, the father rejected and disparaged him.)
These traits will lead overly narcissistic parents to be very intrusive in some ways, and entirely neglectful in others. The children are punished if they do not respond adequately to the parents’ needs. This punishment may take a variety of forms, including physical abuse, angry outbursts, blame, attempts to instill guilt, emotional withdrawal, and criticism. Whatever form it takes, the purpose of the punishment is to enforce compliance with the parents' narcissistic needs[7].
People who are overly narcissistic commonly feel rejected, humiliated and threatened when criticised. To protect themselves from these dangers, they often react with disdain, rage, and/or defiance to any slight criticism, real or imagined [8]. To avoid such situations, some narcissistic people withdraw socially and may feign modesty or humility.[/[/color]color]

Though individuals with NPD are often ambitious and capable, the inability to tolerate setbacks, disagreements or criticism, along with lack of empathy, make it difficult for such individuals to work cooperatively with others or to maintain long-term professional achievements [9]. With narcissistic personality disorder, the person's perceived fantastic grandiosity, often coupled with a hypomanic mood, is typically not commensurate with his or her real accomplishments.
The exploitativeness, sense of entitlement, lack of empathy, disregard for others, and constant need for attention inherent in NPD adversely affect interpersonal relationships.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2008 03:07AM by Deja Vu.

Quote
Won't Be Dogmatized
I suspect Tony Cunningham has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I have studied this condition to better help me understand certain people in my life. Friends, family, associates and followers of someone who has NPD are unknowingly providing him/her with the "supply" needed in order to maintain superiority.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) symptoms:
•Reacts to criticism with feelings or rage, shame or humiliation.
•Takes advantage of others to achieve own goals.
•Self-important.
•Exaggerates achievements and talents.
•Preoccupation with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love.
•Unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment.
•Requires constant attention and admiration.
•Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him.

There's so much more at: [www.medicinenet.com]

Or you can Google Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

This is funny becuase i was recently looking at something almost identical to this.... very good information and very accurate of what is going on...

Quote
lifeisafunnything
Well, to know a little more about me. I was previously a very committed member of RLC. I loved God and wanted nothing more than to know him and follow him, give my life for him. When I came to RLC I was ready to do this and believed I had found a place that was perfect for it. I got connected, involved in everything I could. I went to the young adult ministry, to Gate groups, discipleship, I discipled people, I went to SOMA, ministry of Thanksgiving, the Gap, Friday Night Worship, all three Sunday services, early morning prayer groups, outreachs, plays, real life events...EVERYTHING. I was under the impression that if I missed something (anything), that I would miss God or what he was doing. So i was there 7 days a week for almost 4 years. I was given things and I gave things, I longed for someone to really love me, to father me and I thought that no one else would suffice but Tony. He was the epitome of what I wanted, and wanted to become. At times, he was this for me, but never very deep. He would act like he cared, but never without me coming to him. He knew my issues, but seemed to pass over me when it came to handing out relationships. I always thought it was just me, that I was just messed up beyond control. Long story short (kinda) I went through some things in my personal "walk", was told I had demons (that was the hokiest thing I have ever willingly put myself through) and was basically told that I wasn't getting in to heaven unless I did this, that and the other. I couldn't take it anymore. I literally stopped believing. I stopped caring. I thought everything people told me was a lie. I wanted nothing to do with church, the people in it, and sadly to say, I ended up wanting nothing to do with God. To this day I find it very hard to believe. I no longer want to live my life for God (which hurts so much, and scares the hell out of me at the same time) and any church I go into feels fake. When people tell me that they hear God, I automatically don't believe them and this comes directly from my interaction with Tony. He has driven home the fact that people are jacked up, misled and crazy. AND I BELIEVED HIM. Now I'm stuck in a world of disbelief (which is so unlike me). He really should know that a lot of people feel this way. No longer wanting to believe. That's sad.

Please don't give up. A little distance from the "Church" thing helped me for awhile. I needed to get back involved into a fellowship...
I used pray all the time and still do sometimes, " God, please don't give up on me. I am struggling to believe, to trust. I want You but I am having a hard time finding you."
I sometimes still lack that connection I had with God, but I know he is there with me. I can not look back on life and not see him there. Even through all of the RLC crap.
I say all this to hopefully encourage you. I promise no church is perfect, but the fellowship with believers at a healthy church is vital.
-Nicole

Thanks Nicole...I do try to get encouraged to go again, but I feel like I'm not there yet. I just don't want to anymore. Life is great though. I have a lot more peace, a lot more fun, and can finally be honest about myself without fear of what people think. It's wierd, because everything else in my life has come together since leaving RLC, but my hope for a life with God has dwindled.

Lifeisafunnything,

I am sorry to here of this. I know how it feels. Though I was in leadership and really connected to Tony and others, I felt it too. quote [I couldn't take it anymore. I literally stopped believing. I stopped caring. I thought everything people told me was a lie. I wanted nothing to do with church, the people in it, and sadly to say, I ended up wanting nothing to do with God. To this day I find it very hard to believe. I no longer want to live my life for God (which hurts so much, and scares the hell out of me at the same time) and any church I go into feels fake. When people tell me that they hear God, I automatically don't believe them and this comes directly from my interaction with Tony. He has driven home the fact that people are jacked up, misled and crazy. AND I BELIEVED HIM. Now I'm stuck in a world of disbelief (which is so unlike me). He really should know that a lot of people feel this way. No longer wanting to believe. That's sad.]

I wanted to say that I am sorry for any misleading I may have caused you since I know you were in the young adult ministry. In case you did not know, This is Ryan Lazalier. We are here as a support to you. We were all caught in this trap. Some were more entangled than others but to all, it was just as painful and REAL. If you want to PM me, you are more than welcome to and I will respond. I am glad you are here now and your insights and feeling can really help others. Take care for now. Hope all is well. If not, I know you are in for amzing healing and a newness with God you have never had before.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2008 03:43AM by Deja Vu.

Welcome Lifeisafunnything.

I have to say that when I read your testimony tears welled up in my eyes. I know that this has happened all too many times. My heart grieves for those who have fallen away from God. This has got to stop!!! I wish there was something I could say or do that would take away your pain. Know this, you are a loved child of God and He cares about you! This is not a lie, but truth!!! This is why it is so important that we all have that personal relationship with Jesus and know His word so we can test what is being taught. There is no condemnation for those (including myself) who at one time looked at Tony for the answers. So, while we go from each flavor of the month such as spiritual parenting, Tony the Apostle or casting out demons, the word of God never changes.


Peace be with you all.

Lifeisafunnything

Thank you for your post and thank you for being willing to share. I can totally identify with the ruin that comes to ones faith after they leave and especially after they have been close to Tony in any capacity. However, the good news is that God is real and I have found that he is actually much different than I thought or was taught… I have very solid convictions at this point as a result of coming out of RLC and breaking off my relationship with Tony. Just continue to process, it’s a long road out and your brain will go through a sort of grieving process but it ends with you having your own healthy beliefs.

I just wanted to also address everyone and speak on what Ryan addressed in an earlier post… what we are doing here is having an enormous effect. People are being impacted and things are on the move… Ryan referenced a shifting in some RLC leadership… I am asking for those of you who pray to please do so regarding the RLC leadership… I have been hoping for a long time for certain things to take place and I have seen from afar that they are quite possible but now they look almost entirely reachable. I will share the details later if things go as I hope they are but I don’t want to compromise anything or anyone right now. Please just continue to tell your stories and testify because I am telling you I have had more testimony of people starting to question than I expected.

I suspect that it will not be long before I have some personal run ins with some people in leadership at RLC and this is evidence of the impact we are having. This is a good thing and I thank God for it. I want to also remind everyone that the power of our testimonies has resulted in people being honest with themselves about what they have seen and experience and finally admitting that its not good. This forum has turned into a place of honesty and humble admissions of guilt and apologies for some, it has also become a place of actual testimony and not conjecture or speculation… the result, more have joined in and more are hearing that we are not full of it… this is great and not for our glory or for us to say “we are right” but so that people looking on this site can identify and call it for what its is.

You might be able to hear the excitement in my righting but in case you cant, its there… those of you who pray, please pray for the elders, pray for the pastors and pray for those closest to Tony… these people are locked into a lie like many of use were but like we all did they can get out…