Wantingtruth stated:

“What seems to be at the bottom of all this is a desire to be special. To do something above the ordinary.”

This is absolutely true… at the root Mr. Cunningham has an overwhelming need to seem above mediocrity and to espouse his dilution of himself to others. Read the reference below.

The NPD illusion of superiority is a facet of a generalized disdain for reality. These individuals feel unconstrained by rules, customs, limits, and discipline. Their world is filled with self-fiction in which conflicts are dismissed, failures redeemed, and self-pride is effortlessly maintained. They easily devise plausible reasons to justify self-centered and inconsiderate behavior. Their memories of past relationships are often illusory and changing. If rationalizations and self-deception fail, individuals with NPD are vulnerable to dejection, shame, and a sense of emptiness. Then they have little recourse other than fantasy. They have an uninhibited imagination and engage in self-glorifying fantasies. What is unmanageable through fantasy is repressed and kept from awareness. As they consistently devalue others, they do not question the correctness of their own beliefs; they assume that others are wrong. The characteristic difficulties of individuals with NPD almost all stem from their lack of solid contact with reality. If the false image of self becomes substantive enough, their thinking will become peculiar and deviant. Then their defensive maneuvers become increasingly transparent to others (Millon & Davis, 1996, pp. 405-423).

-Sharon C. Ekleberry, Dual Diagnosis and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder

found on: [www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com]


It is important in understanding the man. I remind first Mr. Cunningham and second the rest of those reading that Mr. Cunningham has never actually accomplished anything of major significance or weight… he has never accomplished any exploit that would be above mediocrity and his largest achievement to dates rests in the years 2004 to 2006 where he was at the height of his influence over people… he is not a scholar as he thinks, he holds no actual authority on heaven or earth though he is obsessed with the notion that he does, he is not an apostle nor does he have trans-local influence or authority in any shape or form, he has displayed no real prophetic gifting though he suggests he is soaked in the prophetic to the point of teaching classes on it, he has failed at every single business endeavor he has put his hands on to date, including those of other peoples businesses. Yet he is again under the dilution that he is a wise business man, he tells others that he is honest yet the investigation conducted by is previous elder board found that he was in fact often misleading and outright dishonest about his practices, teachings and things he has said in the past… we have no real evidence of any healing he has done, no real evidence G-d’s favor on him, though he suggests that he has so much favor with G-d that just being near him will bless you…

I could continue but you get the picture… the reality of Mr. Cunningham is described above. He has a clinical issue, among many others, but this might shed some light on where he is coming from… and in all honesty and without being facetious it makes me sad for the man.

Thank you, Ring Barer. No doubt this forum is providing Tony with his Narcissistic Supply. But well worth it, if Tony’s victims (family, friends, women, colleagues, followers, students, etc.) recognize their co-dependant behavior and therefore leave him and RLC. Some may choose to stay, but at least they are informed and can learn to deal with it.

“Narcissistic Supply includes all forms of attention - both positive and negative: fame, notoriety, adulation, fear, applause, approval. Whenever the narcissist gets attention, positive or negative, whenever he is in the "limelight", it constitutes Narcissistic Supply. If he can manipulate people or influence them – positively or negatively – it qualifies as Narcissistic Supply.”

From: [samvak.tripod.com] Here's more from this link:

Question:
What is Narcissistic Supply?

Answer:
We all search for positive cues from people around us. These cues reinforce in us certain behaviour patterns. There is nothing special in the fact that the narcissist does the same. However there are two major differences between the narcissistic and the normal personality.

The first is quantitative. The normal person is likely to welcome a moderate amount of attention – verbal and non-verbal – in the form of affirmation, approval, or admiration. Too much attention, though, is perceived as onerous and is avoided. Destructive and negative criticism is avoided altogether.

The narcissist, in contrast, is the mental equivalent of an alcoholic. He is insatiable. He directs his whole behaviour, in fact his life, to obtain these pleasurable titbits of attention. He embeds them in a coherent, completely biased, picture of himself. He uses them to regulates his labile sense of self-worth and self-esteem.

To elicit constant interest, he projects to others a confabulated, fictitious version of himself, known as the False Self. The False Self is everything the narcissist is not: omniscient, omnipotent, charming, intelligent, rich, or well-connected.

The narcissist then proceeds to harvest reactions to this projected image from family members, friends, co-workers, neighbours, business partners and from colleagues. If these – the adulation, admiration, attention, fear, respect, applause, affirmation – are not forthcoming, the narcissist demands them, or extorts them. Money, compliments, a favourable critique, an appearance in the media, a sexual conquest are all converted into the same currency in the narcissist's mind.

This currency is what I call Narcissistic Supply.

It is important to distinguish between the various components of the process of narcissistic supply:

1. The trigger of supply is the person or object that provokes the source into yielding narcissistic supply by confronting the source with information about the narcissist's False Self.

2. The source of narcissistic supply is the person that provides the narcissistic supply

3. Narcissistic supply is the reaction of the source to the trigger.

Publicity (celebrity or notoriety, being famous or being infamous) is a trigger of narcissistic supply because it provokes people to pay attention to the narcissist (in other words, it moves sources to provide the narcissist with narcissistic supply). Publicity can be obtained by exposing oneself, by creating something, or by provoking attention. The narcissist resorts to all three repeatedly (as drug addicts do to secure their daily dose). A mate or a companion is one such source of narcissistic supply.

But the picture is more complicated. There are two categories of Narcissistic Supply and their Sources (NSS):

The Primary Narcissistic Supply is attention, in both its public forms (fame, notoriety, infamy, celebrity) and its private, interpersonal, forms (adoration, adulation, applause, fear, repulsion). It is important to understand that attention of any kind – positive or negative – constitutes Primary Narcissistic Supply. Infamy is as sought after as fame, being notorious is as good as being renowned.

To the narcissist his "achievements" can be imaginary, fictitious, or only apparent, as long as others believe in them. Appearances count more than substance, what matters is not the truth but its perception.

Triggers of Primary Narcissistic Supply include, apart from being famous (celebrity, notoriety, fame, infamy) – having an air of mystique (when the narcissist is considered to be mysterious), having sex and deriving from it a sense of masculinity/virility/femininity, and being close or connected to political, financial, military, or spiritual power or authority or yielding them.

Sources of Primary Narcissistic Supply are all those who provide the narcissist with narcissistic supply on a casual, random basis.

Secondary Narcissistic Supply includes: leading a normal life (a source of great pride for the narcissist), having a secure existence (economic safety, social acceptability, upward mobility), and obtaining companionship.

Thus, having a mate, possessing conspicuous wealth, being creative, running a business (transformed into a Pathological Narcissistic Space), possessing a sense of anarchic freedom, being a member of a group or collective, having a professional or other reputation, being successful, owning property and flaunting one's status symbols - all constitute secondary narcissistic supply as well.

Sources of Secondary Narcissistic Supply are all those who provide the narcissist with narcissistic supply on a regular basis: spouse, friends, colleague, business partners, teachers, neighbours, and so on.

Both these primary and secondary Narcissistic Supply and their triggers and sources are incorporated in a Narcissistic Pathological Space.

Question:
What are the functions of Narcissistic Supply in the narcissistic pathology?

Answer:
The narcissist internalises a "bad" object (typically, his mother) in his childhood. He harbors socially forbidden emotions towards this object: hatred, envy, and other forms of aggression. These feelings reinforce the narcissist's self-image as bad and corrupt. Gradually he develops a dysfunctional sense of self-worth. His self-confidence and self-image become unrealistically low and distorted.

In an effort to repress these "bad" feelings, the narcissist also suppresses all emotions. His aggression is channelled to fantasies or to socially legitimate outlets (dangerous sports, gambling, reckless driving, compulsive shopping). The narcissist views the world as a hostile, unstable, unrewarding, unjust, and unpredictable place.

He defends himself by loving a completely controllable object (himself), by projecting to the world an omnipotent and omniscient False Self, and by turning others to functions or to objects so that they pose no emotional risk. This reactive pattern is what we call pathological narcissism.

To counter his demons the narcissist needs the world: its admiration, its adulation, its attention, its applause, even its penalties. The lack of a functioning personality on the inside is balanced by importing Ego functions and boundaries from the outside.

The Primary Narcissistic Supply reaffirms the narcissist's grandiose fantasies, buttresses his False Self and, thus allows him to regulate his fluctuating sense of self-worth. The Narcissistic Supply contains information which pertains to the way the False Self is perceived by others and allows the narcissist to "calibrate" and "fine tune" it. The Narcissistic Supply also serves to define the boundaries of the False Self, to regulate its contents and to substitute for some of the functions normally reserved for a True, functioning, Self.

While it is easy to understand the function of the Primary Supply, Secondary Supply is a more complicated affair.

Interacting with the opposite sex and "doing business" are the two main Triggers of Secondary Narcissistic Supply (SNS). The narcissist mistakenly interprets his narcissistic needs as emotions. To him, the pursuit of a woman (a Source of Secondary Narcissistic Supply - SSNS), for instance, is what others call "love" or "passion".

Narcissistic Supply, both primary and secondary, is perishable goods. The narcissist consumes it and has to replenish it. As is the case with other drug addictions, to produce the same effect, he is forced to increase the dosage as he goes.

While the narcissist uses up his supply, his partner serves as a silent (and admiring) witness to the narcissist's "great moments" and "achievements". Thus, the narcissist's female friend "accumulates" the narcissist's "grand and "illustrious past". When Primary Narcissistic Supply is low, she "releases" the supply she had accumulated. This she does by reminding the narcissist of those moments of glory that she had witnessed. She helps the narcissist to regulate his sense of self-worth.

This function – of Narcissistic Supply accumulation and release – is performed by all SSNS, male or female, inanimate or institutional. The narcissist's co-workers, bosses, colleagues, neighbours, partners, and friends are all potential SSNS. They all witness the narcissist's past accomplishments and can remind him of them when new supply runs dry.

Question:
Why does the narcissist devalue his Source of Secondary Narcissistic Supply (SSNS)?

Answer:
Narcissists are forever in pursuit of Narcissistic Supply. They are oblivious to the passage of time and are not constrained by any behavioural consistency, "rules" of conduct, or moral considerations. Signal to the narcissist that you are a willing source, and he is bound to try to extract Narcissistic Supply from you by any and all means.

This is a reflex. The narcissist would have reacted absolutely the same way to any other source because, to him, all sources are interchangeable.

Some Sources of Supply are ideal (from the narcissist's point of view): sufficiently intelligent, sufficiently gullible, submissive, reasonably (but not overly) inferior to the narcissist, in possession of a good memory (with which to regulate the flow of Narcissistic Supply), available but not imposing, not explicitly or overtly manipulative, undemanding, attractive (if the narcissist is somatic). In short: a Galathea-Pygmallion type.

But then, often abruptly and inexplicably, it is all over. The narcissist is cold, uninterested and remote.

One of the reasons is, as Groucho Marx put it, that the narcissist doesn't like to belong to those clubs which would accept him as a member. The narcissist devalues his Sources of Supply for the very qualities that made them such sources in the first place: their gullibility, their submissiveness, their (intellectual or physical) inferiority.

But there are many other reasons. For instance, the narcissist resents his dependency. He realizes that he is hopelessly and helplessly addicted to Narcissistic Supply and is in hock to its sources. By devaluing the sources of said supply (his spouse, his employer, his colleague, his friend) he ameliorates the dissonance.

Moreover, the narcissist perceives intimacy and sex as a threat to his uniqueness. Everyone needs sex and intimacy – it is the great equaliser. The narcissist resents this commonness. He rebels by striking out at the perceived founts of his frustration and "enslavement" - his sources of Narcissistic Supply.

Sex and intimacy are usually also connected to unresolved past conflicts with important Primary Objects (parents or caregivers). By constantly invoking these conflicts, the narcissist encourages transference and provokes the onset of approach-avoidance cycles. He blows hot and cold on his relationships.

Additionally, narcissists simply get tired of their sources. They get bored. There is no mathematical formula which governs this. It depends on numerous variables. Usually, the relationship lasts until the narcissist "gets used" to the source and its stimulating effects wear off or until a better Source of Supply presents itself.

Question:
Could negative input serve as Narcissistic Supply (NS)?

Answer:
Yes, it can. Narcissistic Supply includes all forms of attention - both positive and negative: fame, notoriety, adulation, fear, applause, approval. Whenever the narcissist gets attention, positive or negative, whenever he is in the "limelight", it constitutes Narcissistic Supply. If he can manipulate people or influence them – positively or negatively – it qualifies as Narcissistic Supply.

Even quarrelling with people and confronting them constitute Narcissistic Supply. Perhaps not the conflict itself, but the narcissist's ability to influence other people, to make them feel the way he wants, to manipulate them, to make them do something or refrain from doing it - all count as forms of narcissistic supply. Hence the phenomenon of "serial litigators".

Question:
Does the narcissist want to be liked?

Answer:
Would you wish to be liked by your television set? To the narcissist, people are mere tools, Sources of Supply. If, in order to secure this supply, he must be liked by them – he acts likable, helpful, collegial, and friendly. If the only way is to be feared – he makes sure they fear him. He does not really care either way as long as he is being attended to. Attention – whether in the form of fame or infamy – is what it's all about. His world revolves around this constant mirroring. I am seen therefore I exist, he thinks to himself.

But the classic narcissist also craves punishment. His actions are aimed to elicit social opprobrium and sanctions. His life is a Kafkaesque, ongoing trial and the never-ending proceedings are in themselves the punishment. Being penalized (reprimanded, incarcerated, abandoned) serves to vindicate and validate the internal damning voices of the narcissist's sadistic, ideal and immature Superego (really, the erstwhile voices of his parents or other caregivers). It confirms his worthlessness. It relieves him from the inner conflict he endures when he is successful: the conflict between the gnawing feelings of guilt, anxiety, and shame and the need to relentlessly secure Narcissistic Supply.

Question:
How does the narcissist treat his past Sources of Narcissistic Supply? Does he regard them as enemies?

Answer:
One should be careful not to romanticise the narcissist. His remorse and good behaviour are always linked to fears of losing his sources.

Narcissists have no enemies. They have only Sources of Narcissistic Supply. An enemy means attention means supply. One holds sway over one's enemy. If the narcissist has the power to provoke emotions in you, then you are still a Source of Supply to him, regardless of which emotions are provoked.

The narcissist seeks out his old Sources of Narcissistic Supply when he has absolutely no other Narcissistic Supply Sources at his disposal. Narcissists frantically try to recycle their old and wasted sources in such a situation. But the narcissist would not do even that had he not felt that he could still successfully extract a modicum of NS from the old source (even to attack the narcissist is to recognise his existence and to attend to him!!!).

If you are an old Source of Narcissistic Supply, first, get over the excitement of seeing him again. It may be flattering, perhaps sexually arousing. Try to overcome these feelings. Then, simply ignore him. Don't bother to respond in any way to his offer to get together. If he talks to you – keep quiet, don't answer. If he calls you – listen politely and then say goodbye and hang up. Return his gifts unopened. Indifference is what the narcissist cannot stand. It indicates a lack of attention and interest that constitutes the kernel of negative Narcissistic Supply to be avoided.

Quote
wantingtruth
I hope that all those who have read this forum realize that Tony's views on Polygamy are very important to him. Why else would he have elaborated on it so many times?

DO YOU REALLY WANT THIS MAN AS YOUR SPIRITUAL LEADER???

DO YOU TRUST HIM WITH IMPRESSIONALBLE YOUNG PEOPLE???

I would like to open a couple of other subjects up

There is also something amiss and I do not know how to name it. It has to do with Tony's rejection of anyone that is even near his age or older.
He hangs around with young people, has them over for dinner, and spends large amounts of time with them. On the surface this seems to be innocent - even well intentioned - you know sowing into the future generation.
If you are middle aged or have a family of your own, chances are that he has never been to your house for dinner, nor have you been invited to his. The exception to this is if you are affluent, or are in some way useful to him.

But what is the effect? Young people who are arrogant, and truly believe that parents or those with real world experience don't know anything. Tony teaches that since all conventions are useless and only he knows the ones that need promotion, mature adults are spiritually stunted, and the young people who have learned at his feet are "the very best". I've heard him say it myself "Mine are the best that there is" His DNA (spiritual) is so superior that a 50 year old with an established career and much life experience would be well served to sit at the feet of one of his "best" 20 year olds.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME? It reminds me of Khmer Rouge in the movie the KILLING FIELDS. Or Chairman Mao's twisted policies that lead to the death of tens of millions of Chinese. Both of these evil systems disdained those who were the backbone of their cultures, and sought to create a new order that would satisfy their vision. Tony loves to promote his special ones over what already works. If you aren't young and part of his circle he doesn't have time for you.

I was at the Sunday service recently where Tony had 2 young SOMA students, 1 male, 1 female expound on what some word meant and then Tony continued to teach. The arrogance from the young man was palpable. I felt sorry for him. He wouldn't last 1 week working for the same company that I work for. MY worldly co-workers are more humble than that. Tony, he was just like you. Ick.

Whatajoke refered to this other one earlier:
Tony believes in "crafting the moment". That is why he makes an entrance wherever he goes. He has to make himself look good. Perhaps he got this spiritual insight from the pop singer Madonna and her song "strike a pose".

What seems to be at the bottom of all this is a desire to be special. To do something above the ordinary. That's why the stupid amount of teaching on crap (spiritual parenting, polygamy, follow my crazy way of life. NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER anyone?

Oh, and the following his crazy way of life was unachievable. No matter how hard you tried no matter how much you sacrificed or groveled or humiliated yourself or gave in time or money IT WAS NEVER ENOUGH. Tony's only achievement was in creating a performance based church.

Matt 23:2-4 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. they tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them."

Wow I have heard the same thing at turning point having young people over for dinner to cultivate the future generation. and the result is exactly the same arrogance, I've even heard from one guy how one of the youths brag to him about getting to go to Mike and Cyndi's and he didn't almost a na na nana na na thing Wow is this a coincidence I guess since most of them attend soma they are probably given 20 years of wisdom with each diploma. excuse the sarcasim here. but all this stuff is hurting my heart and making me feel crazy, where I once felt great joy now just sorrow

Won't Be Dogmatized,

Very good article... everyone should read the above even in its lengthiness...

Like others have stated when I read what has been being posted I'm sickened.

I also have to go before Father, because I am tempted toward feeling guilt, because though much of this I did not experience it does not surprise me. I knew much of this was happening and I should have said something on numerous occasions and did not for fear of man.

I am thankful that neither my daughter nor son was picked to be part of the inner circle by Tony C.

I am surely not the greatest dad in the world, but I spent a lot of time and still do praying for my children and I thank the Lord that he has answered those prayers by protecting them both from Tony C and others following his twisting of the bible and practice of witch craft in the form of manipulating people and situations to get what he wants.

However I can tell you that my daughter on one occasion did experience abuse and rejection from youth leadership specifically Aubrey S. and that when I spoke out about it I spoke to Dan Flory and he refused to follow up on it. And it happened during a critical period in my daughter’s life that has negatively affected her relationship with Jesus as a result of Aubrey’s response to something I spoke to her and Jeremy about in confidence which she followed up by using it against my daughter.

I can hardly write this as tears are welling up in my eyes at what Tony, Dan and all the others who practice what he teaches have done to you and others. What I experienced is small in comparison.

However I feel that I owe an apology to everyone for not confronting Tony, Elders, and others myself out of fear of man when I heard with my own ears and saw with my own eyes much of this and when the Spirit was showing me other things I did not witness myself, but know nontheless.

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬____________________________________________

Wantingtruth:

Thank you coming in here and speaking the truth boldly. From a personal of perspective being one who is 45-years-old I am thankful that you brought up Tony and the inner-circle of 20 something’s treatment of those in our age group.

I do not believe I have ever brought this up here, but Kevin Reta can confirm this. They were so committed to marginalizing me and what God was doing that on one occasion when God intervened and stopped a gunfight among gang members at the Budget Inn while preaching Kevin Reta was forbidden by Brandon Miller to share that part of the testimony of what God did that day.

It happened to also be a day when we had one of the largest number of people respond to the Gospel. As these gang members were about to start shooting at one each other I could hear and see what was going on and as I preached, I was asking the Lord if I should tell everyone to get on the ground. However instead the Holy Spirit caused me to preach with more and more passion and suddenly it just all stopped a moment latter I stopped preaching and there was one of the largest responses that day.

However, Brandon’s response was like the leaders of RLC did not want known the magnitude of what God was doing at the Budget Inn or that God had chosen to use me. A few weeks ago I was telling someone that I’d like to ask why the Tony, Brandon and the other leaders seemed so committed to marginalize me and treat with complete dismissal.

I realize this is possibly a bit immature, but I take some satisfaction in the fact that God used me the way he did at the Budget Inn and the fruit that I am still experiencing from that work proves that Tony teaching is false. I never sought to honor Tony yet allowed me to see over 170 people respond to the Gospel in the first 3 months at the Budget Inn.

I did not do that to serve or advance Tony’s vision, but in obedience to God, because he gave me that vision. Oh and by the way I also believed then as I do now that that practicing Old Covenant Tithing and teaching it as being for today violates the New Covenant and therefore I did not practice Tithing.

Plus I do not believe that as taught that Tithing is even bible. My point is that God even used me and is still using me to reach out to the former residents of the Budget Inn and I never Tithed and Tony teaches tithing. I also never sought to follow his way of life, matter of fact my last year at RLC I did not even respect him and only remained, because of the work at the Budget Inn.

_____________________________________

Lastly, I understand that every keeps talking about Tony C. However, those who are current Elder’s, Pastors and other leaders are just as guilty as they are choosing to stay and they are all Tony clones.

Forgive me, but I do not care what spiritual sounding reason some people are using to justify staying in “ministry” positions at RLC people who claim that they are not Tony followers and God is telling them to stay. If they really believe that, they are deceived.


Someone mentioned something about Tony experiencing rejection from family or something like that. I find that interesting, because for a long time especially when I sporadically attended the false “prophetic cadre” every time I saw Tony I keep seeing a little abused, neglected, and rejected little boy. Who is now engaging in the same behaviors that he taught from his parents especially his father to get what he wants from people and situations for his own benefit at the expense of others. Accept cryptic bits I have picked up from the forum I know nothing about his childhood and years of living with his family growing up.

I am sorry if none of this really adds to the current topic in the thread, but I just felt like I had to say all of this.

Tom......................thanks for the heartfelt and brutally honest post. I too am one of the older ones and I could always tell that Tony would steer clear of me. I was at his house only one time with a SOMA group and he not only avoided me like the plague but had difficulty having even small talk. I think in his own little way he was intimidated because he wasn't sure if he could control or manipulate me. Tony does not have mature relationships with the older people there. Instead he invites the youngsters over continually and I have seen how immature and manipulated they are by it all. I can remember Tyler Jackson, who I think to his credit has since left RLC, come over to my house one day when I hosted a group of SOMA students. Well Tyler was acting strange but kind of bubbling with glee inside. He made it clear there that he couldn't stay long because he has a special dinner to go to. He kept talking about it and that it was really big and important because tony was involved. After awhile, I asked him what is going on and you know he had the nerve after coming over to my house and bringing it up on his own then making a big deal out of it to tell me that he couldn't tell me but it is something big and it was with Tony. He was basically gloating about being invited to dinner with Tony and that he was chosen or singled out for something by Tony. I was seriously shaking my head that night and really saw a bad side of the manipulation. The young immature kids including the 20 somethings are extremely vulnerable and have been very manipulated by Tony. I saw it in SOMA and I saw it with some good aquaintences I made with some of the younger kids. I bring the story about Tyler up only to try to show how ridiculous it gets. I am sure that Tyler is in a better place now as this was a couple of years ago but this type of thing was rampant. I can also say that my contacts with Rose were spooky at best. She was at the house the day I was over there and she taught a SOMA class I attended. In the few times I tried to talk to her the conversation was very contrived and uncomfortable. It was not possible for someone like me to have a normal heartfelt conversation with someone like Tony or Rose.

Tom, thank you for all your work and caring over at the Budget Inn. You were doing real Gods work. It doesn't take SOMA, Friday Night Worship, Gap, church on sundays, Real Life, Pathetic Cadre, Sprint Club, Brandons special prayer warriors, and on and on to get out and really do what God wants and get your hands dirty. All Radiant Life has to offer is church. No real substance for doing what God really intended. The Budget Inn was a perfect opportunity to serve the Lord as the Lord wants to be served. It is not supposed to be easy. it is nice ministering to all the nice families in the park on saturday and it is good an right. But it is also easy and doesn't reach many who Jesus came for. The truly depressed and hurting. You see I believe there is a white collar salvation and a blue collar salvation. Before someone gets riled up, this is not scriptural and just an analogy. The white collar salvations i would consider typical of alot of the people at Radiant Life absent a ministry like Celebrate Recovery. These white collar saved go around talking about their salvation and how God healed them from their parents being mean to them (their version, it was most likely discipline they didnt like), or how they grew up with their mind so confused (like most teenagers), or how their parents were divorced (but both still did their best). The white collar salvation was a built up, blown up, contrived story about what they have gone through and what god has done. Please I do not want to belittle you if you grew up with a bad relationship with your parents and that is what brought you to God. I am just saying that I heard so many contrived, ridiculous stories and I just wanted to stop an yell that it is okay you dont have to have a stupid story to pronounce your salvation and what god has done. God has done just by creating you. Just by turning your eyes towards him. Then their is the blue collar salvation. The kind that happens at places like the Budget Inn. The kind of salvation where gang members are throwing down their guns, where dope addicts are throwing away their dope, where adults that were molested forgive and live productive lives turning their eyes toward God, where poor people at the Budget Inn are just happy someone cares enough about them to show up and keep their word, and on and on. The point of this whole thing is that the blue collar salvations are the ones that God talks about when he talks about taking care of the poor and oppressed. The blue collar are truly oppressed. They are not oppressed because their parents always made them eat their carrots and they didnt like carrots. Anyway I know the point of this all was to let Tom know that I personally appreciate what he did and it really doesnt matter what I think. It is god who is really watching and knows the heart of the work that was done there. I hope some of this makes sense. If not, I guess I had fun writing it. I know I may hit a few raw nerves with my analogy but hey, it is my perspective of what I have seen through the years. I am definately not saying that you have to say, recover from an addiction to be truly saved. I am just saying that in my years I have observed two different groups that unfortunately really dont mix with each other. I am almost wary of hitting the post message button on this but I will go for it.

Also,one last note Tom..........I think Brandon has come along ways since those days where he was trying to control everything and devote himself to serving Tony. Unfortunately, he ended up being one of Tony's "Necessary Casualties."

If you guys think I am rambling and way off point on this, sorry but I am getting old and senile.........LOL,

Thank you Whatajoke: I understand and agree with you analogy except I will be so bold as to say that one is a false gospel that leads to a false conversion to religion and the other is the Gospel of the Kingdom that transforms people into lovers of God and their neighbors as one grows in the knowledge of Fathers love for them through authentic relationship with Him.

Secondly their is one more thing that I have never shared here and that is when Dan Flory supposedly discipled me sometimes when we would get together I would share things with Dan that the Spirit was speaking to or showing me about him and he would always confirm that things I was hearing were from God, because I could not know them otherwise. However he told Tony about it and Tony told Dan he had to stop "discipleing" me, because it was out of order for me to speak into Dan's life and that only Dan had could speak into my life, because Tony never gave me authority to do that. Hmm! I thought the Holy Spirit chooses who gets what gifts and how and when they operate. However, at that time I so believed that Dan was a man of God that even though I knew Tony was wrong in telling Dan to terminate our relationship I agreed to stop speaking what the Spirit was telling and showing me regarding Dan so we could continue our relationship.

Wow, I now see that was Gods way of trying to save me from Dan betraying me and trying to steal the vision God gave me which so far Dan has abjectly failed at pulling off as most everyone who he tried to bring into his scheme has flaked out.

Tony seems to have forgotten that a Body only has one head and all the parts are equal and the Head of the Body of Christ aint Tony. However as I understand it that is the whole crux of the problem at RLC when broken down to the smallest equation anyway. However in my understanding of scripture it is also what is wrong with institutional church period it is just not always as pronounced as it is at RLC, because of Tony's unbridled narcissism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2008 02:20PM by TomWilson.

Sidebar - Here is a link that has a variety of articles with some very well known names. [www.deceptioninthechurch.com] . You will find articles concerning the apostolic movement and word of faith movement.

If any of you remember one of the few times anyone else was allowed on the pulpit at RLC was for Ed Silvoso. There is much info on him and many others.

I post this link so everyone can become more aware of who and what to look out for. What I and I suspect others are looking for is a place that we can fellowship with other believers where the leadership follows Christ's example of servant leadership.

If servant leadership is not the norm then quite frankly I am not interested in ever being part of that "body" . Titles and/or any form of authoritarian leadership can quick frankly suck my *$#& . If the leadership is an anyway "seeking the seat of honor" for themselves then, again they can ....

Please excuse the explitives in my last post. Got a little carried away.

Back on track. The post by Wont be dogmatized was quite enlightening.

Based on what I read it seems to have caused my mind to go blank. I can't remember the name of who we were talking about. Must not have been anybody. For that matter I think I will start just calling this someone the infamous Mr. Nobody, since I can't recall the name anymore.

Yes I know a little sarcasm. Seriously though we all know that Mr. Nobody reads this blog and has his sycophants reading it as well. So, either good or bad on this blog about Mr. Nobody (the false teacher), seems to be good Narcissitic Supply. Damn here we go helping ??? (forgot again) . ;)

Lest we be deceived that the Hired hand and his band of merry 'yes' men are alone in their deceptive, manipulative and spiritually abusive ways... I found an article about a so called 'pastor' in Virginia and another trail of destruction.

The headline reads:
"In Va., a Powerful and Polarizing Pastor
A Loudoun Minister Inspires Loyalty From Followers, Anger From Ex-Members With Torn Lives and Moral Pain"

Here is the link. It's a five page article but mirrors so much what is happening at rlc even down to the arogance of the leadership!

[www.washingtonpost.com]

Hope this will open some eyes to the depth of deception being thrust upon the church today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2008 10:52PM by Worship_Big.