EZE3.17:

Please drop the "Do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked" ending on your posts.

Also, remember that many people posting here have been badly hurt, and humor has its place.

Try to be a little less humorous and perhaps a bit more focused.

TrueWords:

Preaching is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.

Also, you should know that very bible literate people are frequently trapped in destructive churches.

It is simplistic to say that if someone knew the bible better they would not get caught--it's more complex than that and includes many factors.

Godlessness in the Last Days...
2Timothy 3: 1-5

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves. Lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleaure rather than lovers of God... having a form of Godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.


I have experienced the devastating effects of the teaching on 'Siritual Parenting'... The damage is extensive... I Quote this passage again , because of the omission concerning 'obedience' to parents... I think we are all affected by this (Spiritual Parenting) demonic teaching...

TRUEWORDS:

Be very careful to speak about so many the way you spoke about them when you stated:

"and the rest just followed along like little dumb sheep". Speak TrueWords.

This list of people are not dumb or stupid. If you knew these people, you and others would know their tenacious heart for God and hard work and service. MANY are very inteligent and well versed in scripture. There are many factors in why many are deceived. Satan masquerades as LIGHT! and so do his servants. Yes, Light. Deception would not be deception if it was easily detected. The "simple" often do not detect it because they are often religious and not "searching".

What I will say is this; Many are deceived because they do not settle for what is practiced currently in the Church or in Christianity. They are sheep looking for TRUTH and a true shephard or shephards who are real and genuine and who represent Christ. This opens many up for not only finding TRUTH and LIFE, but also for being deceived. Anyone who thinks they cannot be deceived is ALREADY deceived. Christ constantly warns us about "antichrists" because he says Many of the ELect will leave their faith and follow the great deception.

Sometimes sheep are too trusting and not enough discerning, but that does not mean they are "Dumb Sheep". I believe that in all of this ordeal, it has prepared many for what is to come. These sheep are more wise and discerning of truth. Hopefully, most, if not all, will learn from this whole experience. Anyhow, this is just my thought and opinion. Take it or leave it.

-Ryan-

Ryan,

If you read my post in context, the "dumb sheep" I referred to were the elders that went along with Tony and Greg, for years and years. Maybe I could have been a bit clearer. I said nothing about the members in general.

Since someone suggested we copy this entry into this main thread.... here it goes....

We went to TP from 1998-2001, when Tony first came up to promote SOMA. We were part of the church when there was no connection to Tony, after he had given Mike advice, that Mike refused to take and there were years of no talking. I have that on record from Tony and have talked to Mike about it. Mike was always full of passion for God and was a true worshiper. After Tony came up, Mike, Jeff and and a few others urged us to consider going to SOMA. We moved to RLC to do so. We sat under Tony's teaching for 2 1/2 years and I can tell you, what you are describing in Mike is the "DNA" of Tony, in his very words. The weekend our 1st child was born Mike and Cyndi were in Sacramento and came and met us for Coffee in Old Sacramento. Mike held my child and told me that Tony had just made him a spiritual son. He was so in awe, impressed with the gravity of the honor that had been bestowed on him. After knowing the "old Mike" and hearing things that are going on at TP, there is no doubt in my mind that Mike is a clone of Tony. It breaks my heart to hear that this is true, but those who are there should be warned that Mike hasn't gone out in the deep end as much as Tony has, but unless God open's their eyes and there is brokenness before God, Mike will go even more astray from scripture and become even more controlling and power hungry. Pray! that God would open Mike's eyes and soften his heart during his sabatical.
Here is a short list of traits that Tony bestows on his sons and followers
Buisness savy ideas/greed for wealth
Teaching honor to those are to give the honor - resulting in personal gain/promotion
Teaching spiritual parenting - removing the authority of your parents and putting oneself under some else's spiritual authority, for the goal of a greater spiritual inheritance
Discipleship that extends far beyond helping people follow God, more into helping people follow the ways of the leader
Generosity of the people, to the leaders benefit

To Braveheart and everyone else: Alice Lee cannot be included in your list. John and Alice are very committed to serving God not Tony. They are at RLC because that is were John feels God would have him be. There was a time when Alice was pursuing relationship with Tony. John and Alice both became very clear that their relationship with Christ and with each other was and is what matters.

John and Alice recently held a dinner at their home to honor Matt and Bev Wanner. I believe that the Lees and Wanners friendship and love for each other will not be shaken by the circumstances around them.

Thank you Guess Who and Deja Vu for pointing out that not everyone who remains at rlc is deceived and or a dumb sheep... there is a remnant left, (there always are), some who have been called to pray, worship and interceed on behalf of the truth. That what is hurting, deceptive, improper and false would be revealed and brought into the light and dealt with as seen fit by the Lord.

In my experience justice, is better off in the hands of the Lord and I will add to that this statement; it will probably not look like anything you or I can envision...

The hired hand and his band of merry men are being shown for what they truly are -vulnerable, fragile men. Susceptible to all kinds of sin and failure, just like the rest of us. However, as those elected or appointed and approved, even through manipulation, as Leaders in the body they are held by both men and the Lord to a higher standard of responsibility and therefore judged by that higher standard for what they do (comission) and what they do not do (omission).

The hand has been dealt and the game is being played out, minute by minute... play by play, until the final cards are played and all will be revealed. Until that time there is opportunity for recognition and for repentance, there is even opportunity for redemption and restoration but not until the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is laid out there for all to see and can be addressed... Here's to TRUTH.

peace.

I would be happy to retract my statement lumping Alice Lee in that list of Tony's Spiritual Daughters

I was working with old information, sorry

Dan

Quote
Deja Vu
What I will say is this; Many are deceived because they do not settle for what is practiced currently in the Church or in Christianity.
-Ryan-

I'm confused. I think I'm either misunderstanding or perhaps you mis-communicated in the line above. Even when I read it in context with the rest of what you said I keep thinking I must be misunderstanding. Could you be more explicit for us simple folk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2008 04:30AM by TomWilson.