Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: March 15, 2009 02:21PM
Quote
Brokenhearted
Okay, I'm getting ready to listen to last weeks sermon, but I have to bring up a point that's been bugging me since I first noticed it. How many times have the people on this forum been accused of gossip? Did pastor mike accuse this forum of gossip in his message (I'm about to find out)?
But, if he is addressing the things that we are saying here, to the body, but not to us....if he is twisting and misstating our concerns....again, to the body, but not to those of us here on the board....isn't THAT gossip?
Is pastor mike now doing exactly what we've been accused of doing, or warned against?
Isn't he doing exactly what he's instructing soma students, and staff, and the body to avoid doing?
Is pastor mike feeding the rumor mill by implying (or boldly stating) false statements about the people that are posting here?
You make a great observation regarding the Gossip. but even more I have noticed in the years of attending RLc Every time Tony would rail against a subject like Gossip or being filled with pride or arrogance I would notice the same behavior in Tony 3-4 months latter.
Quote
Brokenhearted
Have you declared in front of the church that you have changed the bylaws of the church?
Does the body know that you are changing the mission and vision of TPc?
here is a thought.....
For me running a business I would have to write a business plan at the end of the first year I went back and I re-read my Business plan. I could see where I missed the mark on some of my goals and for other areas of business I exceeded my goals.
What I believe both Tony and Mike need to do is write a Statement of faith paper on what they believe then present it to the congregation for a review then have a time of open public questions & answers.
In fact I believe every pastor should start doing this to be accountable and not become some loose cannon.
BraveHeart
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
TurningPointReject
()
Date: March 15, 2009 02:25PM
Quote
tell the truth
I was talking with someone from tp the other day and listened as he spoke of those who are sent vs. those who 'went' . I asked him, since I knew him to be a good friend of Pastor Jackie and Sids how he was dealing with them being gone and if it had disrupted the balance in any way. He said, well, Pastor Mike and Cyndi believe that they will be back and that there is a season for going out. It appears the reason they are not saying good'bye to Jackie in a formal way is because they believe she will see the error of her way and will be back. I asked this guy if it was at all possible that the pastors would rebuke the Apostolistic ministry and his response was "it is possible and that many things in the church have changed over the years"
It struck me as I talked to him how convinced he was that Mike and Cyndi were right and how many people believe what they said. I was reading my devotional this morning and the verses were from 2nd Chronicles 20. Vs 15 .... "This is what the Lord says to you:'Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God's." Vs 17 "You will not have to fight this battle. Take up your positions; stand firm and see the deliverance the Lord will give you, O Judah and Jerusalen. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Go out to face them tomorrow, and the Lord will be with you." Vs 22 "As they began to sing and praise, the Lord set ambuses against the men of Ammon and Moab and Mount Seir who were invading Judah, and they were defeated."
My Bible goes on to explain in the study section "Do not be afraid or discouraged...For the battle is not yours, but God's." We may not fight an enemy army, but every day we battle temptation, pressure, and "rulers....of this dark world" who want us to rebel against God. Remember, as believers we have God's Spirit in us. If we ask for God's help when we face struggles, God will fight for us. And God always triumphs."
I just wanted to share that with those who are disheartened or struggling with the fallout from the disappointment and hurt they experienced at tp and continue to experience. God is in control and He will bring low those who oppose the truth and lead lambs to unrighteousness. Because our only righteousness is in Jesus, leading the lambs to the false apostle is leading them to unrighteousness. How sad and heartbreaking. God's heart must hurt.
Notice the bold portion of the above quote.
Does this strike anyone as "odd" or "different"?
I am curious what others think about this mindset.
I have resigned from positions at churches. And while everyone stated that I could always come back, they respected my decision and formally supported that decision, and formally announced that decision to the whole church. They did not seek to undo my decision, minimize my decision or attempt to "re- make" the decision for me.
If it is true that Mike and Cyndi believe Sid and Jackie will be back in the fold does this not underscore a spirit of manipulation and control?
Are they disregarding and showing no respect for Sid and Jackies decision?
What has to happen for Sid and Jackie to return? One of two possibilities: Mike has to acknowledge that Jackie's reasons for resigning are true and he has to confess and change OR Jackie and Sid have to admit that they are wrong and they have to confess and change. Are there any other possibilities? I would like to know what others think.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
TurningPointReject
()
Date: March 15, 2009 02:46PM
Quote
Northwest
I read brave heart’s post in which he quoted Mike from his sermon “Recession Proof: Your Profession” My initial reaction was to say that Braveheart took what he was saying out of context and give mike the benefit of the doubt. I went and listened to the sermon and would encourage people here to start at about the halfway point of it and listen for a few minutes to find the part BHeart referenced. His account was actually being nice to mike. I don’t know if I would use the word demonize, but other than that the verse was Ephesians 4:11 and not timothy it was pretty accurate account.
In mikes sermon he stated that the church is open about the fact that they believe in apostolic ministry and prosperity doctrine. Mike also stated that he finds it funny that people posting on here act like mike is trying to hide this.
I would ask mike?
Have you ever publicly declared in front of the church that you are an apostle? Does it say on your website that you are an apostle? Do you want people addressing you as apostle? While you do have a soma class called 5 fold and you occasionally say words like “apostolic ministry,” you don’t ever make it clear that you believe you are the “lead apostle,” of a church and that you have very little accountability accept in your private classes.
Also are you aware why people think it is wrong of you to teach prosperity and that this very teaching that your are laughing about has devastated families.
In his sermon he said something like: “I giggle every time I read that someone saying, ‘They teach prosperity at tp, or they believe in the apostolic ministry.’ ….Of course we believe this.”
I wonder if he would feel comfortable saying: “I giggle every time I read someone saying, ‘I have no accountability, all but one elder are on staff, they are all yes men , and we are no longer an elder led church but an apostle led church.’ Of course we believe this; we are not trying to hide that.”
Mike also stated:
“I don’t preach prosperity to benefit me; it is to be a conduit.”
Having personally seen all of the people who come over to mikes house and serve him, I found it that statement ironic. I wonder if he would feel comfortable listing all of the things that people have bought for him. Harley, landscaping, deck, people cleaning your house regularly, doing your laundry, various honorariums, people washing your cars, and serving your every need so that they can get the “righteous mans reward.” I’m sure he could use all of this as a great illustration of being a conduit.
(to mikes credit he did give away the jeep that was given to him, however this was probably because he was running out of room in his garage ,lol)
I giggle when I listen to Mike. Mike, no one here is accusing you of teaching "in secret". If they were we could easily dismiss their posts. And its not that they are just saying you believe in "apostolic ministry".
What they are accusing you of is being a False Teacher/False Apostle/False Prophet, among other items. They are saying that "prosperity gospel" is a false gospel; that "spiritual parenting" as you teach it is a false teaching; that "Honoring" as taught by you is a false teaching; that "Covenant Relationship" as taught by you is a false teaching; that "covering" as taught by you is a false teaching.
This is far more serious than being accused of "teaching Apostolic ministry". And as such, cannot be easily dismissed. And yet rather than address these charges from your pulpit, you choose to misrepresent what is actually being posted here...you take it out of context much like you take scripture out of context (proof texting, anyone?).
Many, if not most, who have posted here left TPC before ever discovering this forum. They did not leave because they read about you "teaching apostolic ministry" here. They left because they started reading the Bible in its full context and measuring what you are teaching against the full measure of God's Word and found your teaching to fall short.
Others have come here to defend TPC and in the process started asking questions of the leaders at your church, measuring your teachings with the whole of God's Word and come to their own conclusions.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
TurningPointReject
()
Date: March 15, 2009 03:02PM
Quote
TurningPointRejectQuote
tell the truth
I was talking with someone from tp the other day and listened as he spoke of those who are sent vs. those who 'went' . I asked him, since I knew him to be a good friend of Pastor Jackie and Sids how he was dealing with them being gone and if it had disrupted the balance in any way. He said, well, Pastor Mike and Cyndi believe that they will be back and that there is a season for going out. It appears the reason they are not saying good'bye to Jackie in a formal way is because they believe she will see the error of her way and will be back. I asked this guy if it was at all possible that the pastors would rebuke the Apostolistic ministry and his response was "it is possible and that many things in the church have changed over the years"
It struck me as I talked to him how convinced he was that Mike and Cyndi were right and how many people believe what they said. I was reading my devotional this morning and the verses were from 2nd Chronicles 20. Vs 15 .... "This is what the Lord says to you:'Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God's." Vs 17 "You will not have to fight this battle. Take up your positions; stand firm and see the deliverance the Lord will give you, O Judah and Jerusalen. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Go out to face them tomorrow, and the Lord will be with you." Vs 22 "As they began to sing and praise, the Lord set ambuses against the men of Ammon and Moab and Mount Seir who were invading Judah, and they were defeated."
My Bible goes on to explain in the study section "Do not be afraid or discouraged...For the battle is not yours, but God's." We may not fight an enemy army, but every day we battle temptation, pressure, and "rulers....of this dark world" who want us to rebel against God. Remember, as believers we have God's Spirit in us. If we ask for God's help when we face struggles, God will fight for us. And God always triumphs."
I just wanted to share that with those who are disheartened or struggling with the fallout from the disappointment and hurt they experienced at tp and continue to experience. God is in control and He will bring low those who oppose the truth and lead lambs to unrighteousness. Because our only righteousness is in Jesus, leading the lambs to the false apostle is leading them to unrighteousness. How sad and heartbreaking. God's heart must hurt.
Notice the bold portion of the above quote.
Does this strike anyone as "odd" or "different"?
I am curious what others think about this mindset.
I have resigned from positions at churches. And while everyone stated that I could always come back, they respected my decision and formally supported that decision, and formally announced that decision to the whole church. They did not seek to undo my decision, minimize my decision or attempt to "re- make" the decision for me.
If it is true that Mike and Cyndi believe Sid and Jackie will be back in the fold does this not underscore a spirit of manipulation and control?
Are they disregarding and showing no respect for Sid and Jackies decision?
What has to happen for Sid and Jackie to return? One of two possibilities: Mike has to acknowledge that Jackie's reasons for resigning are true and he has to confess and change OR Jackie and Sid have to admit that they are wrong and they have to confess and change. Are there any other possibilities? I would like to know what others think.
Someone correct me. I believe Jackie's resignation was announced to the church body. Is this correct?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
M&M
()
Date: March 15, 2009 10:35PM
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ.
I wrote this last night and wanted to stew on it and make sure I am not just overreacting. Several of you very quickly wrote what I would have written, thank you.
My immediate reaction to Braveheart when he referred to last week's sermon by Mike was that he misunderstood. I am sorry Braveheart. Like Northwest, I think if anything you were too kind.
I have been very reluctant at each stage to attribute negative motives to Mike and Cyndi. I have thought when he first went into his healing teaching that he didn't know any better. When he bought the house right after the fundraiser, that no one was there to speak to him. That when he went on "sabbatical" he would be changed and repented and have been honest. When Jackie left they would honor her and at least be honest about why she left.
I heard this sermon, his comments about the apostolic, and I say with great regret and sadness. You aren't being honest. I hate even writing that.
I really can't think of anything worse to say about anyone. It is the one thing I hope is never said about me. But if it is and is true that I repent in dust and ashes.
Mike, you did not address the concerns on this forum honestly. You are ashamed to go by the title "lead apostle" aren't you?
It isn't on the sign board is it? You aren't going to have yourself addressed as lead apostle by people are you? It isn't in the bulletines: “Mike Villamoor LEAD APOSTLE!!” is it? How about taking out an add in the Everett Herald: “Come hear LEAD APOSTLE MIKE VILLAMOOR”. Not going to happen is it?
Of equal sadness and shame, those who were in front who were laughing and amening. You know better don't you? Aren't you ashamed of yourself Jeff, Kim, Rick, .......? Did you really laugh? Did you nod your head and smile? Please tell me you are writing your resignation letter as I write this. Please tell me you are cut to the heart. Please tell me that your years of enabling Mike and Cyndi are suffocating you with guilt and humiliation.
I wrote this last night and wanted to stew on it and make sure I am not just overreacting. Several of you very quickly wrote what I would have written, thank you.
My immediate reaction to Braveheart when he referred to last week's sermon by Mike was that he misunderstood. I am sorry Braveheart. Like Northwest, I think if anything you were too kind.
I have been very reluctant at each stage to attribute negative motives to Mike and Cyndi. I have thought when he first went into his healing teaching that he didn't know any better. When he bought the house right after the fundraiser, that no one was there to speak to him. That when he went on "sabbatical" he would be changed and repented and have been honest. When Jackie left they would honor her and at least be honest about why she left.
I heard this sermon, his comments about the apostolic, and I say with great regret and sadness. You aren't being honest. I hate even writing that.
I really can't think of anything worse to say about anyone. It is the one thing I hope is never said about me. But if it is and is true that I repent in dust and ashes.
Mike, you did not address the concerns on this forum honestly. You are ashamed to go by the title "lead apostle" aren't you?
It isn't on the sign board is it? You aren't going to have yourself addressed as lead apostle by people are you? It isn't in the bulletines: “Mike Villamoor LEAD APOSTLE!!” is it? How about taking out an add in the Everett Herald: “Come hear LEAD APOSTLE MIKE VILLAMOOR”. Not going to happen is it?
Of equal sadness and shame, those who were in front who were laughing and amening. You know better don't you? Aren't you ashamed of yourself Jeff, Kim, Rick, .......? Did you really laugh? Did you nod your head and smile? Please tell me you are writing your resignation letter as I write this. Please tell me you are cut to the heart. Please tell me that your years of enabling Mike and Cyndi are suffocating you with guilt and humiliation.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Brokenhearted
()
Date: March 15, 2009 11:51PM
Quote
GodsWarrior
He does not accuse the people on here of gossiping. He said there are enemies but does not say anything about this website. I was at both services.
I believe that people posting on here twist his words and actions on a regular basis. There are alot of hear-say statements. I would never expect to see him on here responding to any of these posts. Some people on here would be receptive and happy he was answering questions and others would pull apart every word he said. I am sure any of you can guess which posters on here would do what.
I know that I could ask him one on one any of the questions being asked here and get it answered and I will ask him the ones that are important to me.
I don't think he is addressing the body about what is being said here. I believe he is being asked alot of the same questions being asked here and is hearing alot about how upset people on here are and also people are concerned due to all of the negative publicity with the newspaper articles and this and other websites. From what I can see I am the only person on this forum who is not anti-turning point.
Okay GodsWarrior ~
I listened to the message, and you are right, he doesn't accuse the people here of gossiping....in this sermon. But that is the overall consences, is it not?
Hoestly? I think that Mike is capable of "holding his own" in this forum. I don't see any reason for him not to address the questions that we have. He is comfortable with the prosperity doctrine that he's preaching. Fine, many here disagree.....but lets move beyond that. Lets get some of the other *issues* out in the open. Lets talk about the churches finances. Lets talk about the amount of honor bestowed Mike and his family. Lets talk about all the things that are being hidden. Bring it ALL out into the light.
And since we're discussing bringing it all out, I have a couple more questions for Mike?
Were SOMA students doing your laundry for credit for their practicum?
How many meals has someone in your imediate family cooked for someone in need?
How many times has someone in you family done someone else's laundry, or cleaned their toilets?
How many times have you, yourself, mowed someone else's lawn?
How many times have you paid someone's rent, b/c they were about to be evicted?
How many times have you or your family cared for another couple's children...for any reason outside of providing a playdate for your own kids?
When is the last time you visited someone in jail? The hospital (and not someone having a baby)?
When is the last time you accepted a phone call in the office from a non-leader? Had a meeting? Answered an email?
I think you get the idea..........
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Brokenhearted
()
Date: March 16, 2009 12:02AM
Wow M&M ~
It is with a heavy heart that I have to agree with everything you say. I think that pretty much sums it up.
It is with a heavy heart that I have to agree with everything you say. I think that pretty much sums it up.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Veilednomore
()
Date: March 16, 2009 12:11AM
It has not been "anounced" that Pastor Jackie has resigned:
How can TPC acknowledge that Pastor Jackie resigned. Then they would have to answer the question of why she resigned, " Spiritual differences" doesn't cover it. A man has set himself as the lead Apostle of a new denomination, he has changed the Mission and Vission of TPC, and he has changed the bylaws of TPC. This radicaly changes the direction that he is leading the church. The problem is that the church is unaware that the direction has been changed.
Pastor Mike you want all of this to go away tell the truth. Let the people of TPC know what has been changed. They have a right to know. You as their spiritual leader have the God ordained resposibility to be transparent with those you are leading. Don't you want them to know the truth?
Mike you have exhaulted yourself to a position so far removed form the people you are "shepherding" that you no longer are there shepherd. Do you know their faces, their hurts, their troubles? You hide behind an "administrator and say I am too important to talk to any but Elders, Deacons, and ministry leads. Jesus did remove himself from the people for "a time" but he always came back to the people. He was all about the lost, not "building this huge kingdom" at there expense. You say if someone leaves "don't chase after them" but is that what a sheperd does? A shepherd is consumed with his flock. If one is lost he leaves the flock to pursue it and bring it back into the safety of the fold.
Luke 15:3-5 (New International Version)
3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders
VNM
How can TPC acknowledge that Pastor Jackie resigned. Then they would have to answer the question of why she resigned, " Spiritual differences" doesn't cover it. A man has set himself as the lead Apostle of a new denomination, he has changed the Mission and Vission of TPC, and he has changed the bylaws of TPC. This radicaly changes the direction that he is leading the church. The problem is that the church is unaware that the direction has been changed.
Pastor Mike you want all of this to go away tell the truth. Let the people of TPC know what has been changed. They have a right to know. You as their spiritual leader have the God ordained resposibility to be transparent with those you are leading. Don't you want them to know the truth?
Mike you have exhaulted yourself to a position so far removed form the people you are "shepherding" that you no longer are there shepherd. Do you know their faces, their hurts, their troubles? You hide behind an "administrator and say I am too important to talk to any but Elders, Deacons, and ministry leads. Jesus did remove himself from the people for "a time" but he always came back to the people. He was all about the lost, not "building this huge kingdom" at there expense. You say if someone leaves "don't chase after them" but is that what a sheperd does? A shepherd is consumed with his flock. If one is lost he leaves the flock to pursue it and bring it back into the safety of the fold.
Luke 15:3-5 (New International Version)
3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders
VNM
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
TurningPointReject
()
Date: March 16, 2009 12:25AM
Gods Warrior,
Thank you for taking the time to post here on the forum. Also, thank you for taking time to PM me. I appreciate what you had to say.
I would like to pose a few questions to you if you don't mind.
Have you read all the posts on this thread?
Have you read all the posts on the RLc threads?
Which questions of the leadership are important to you to have answered?
What brought you to this forum?
Do you believe in "spiritual parenting"? as taught by Mike and Cyndi?
Do you practice "honoring" Mike and Cyndi?
Are you or have you attended SOMA?
Which, if any, teachings do you disagree with or have concerns for?
Thanks for taking time to share your thoughts.
Thank you for taking the time to post here on the forum. Also, thank you for taking time to PM me. I appreciate what you had to say.
I would like to pose a few questions to you if you don't mind.
Have you read all the posts on this thread?
Have you read all the posts on the RLc threads?
Which questions of the leadership are important to you to have answered?
What brought you to this forum?
Do you believe in "spiritual parenting"? as taught by Mike and Cyndi?
Do you practice "honoring" Mike and Cyndi?
Are you or have you attended SOMA?
Which, if any, teachings do you disagree with or have concerns for?
Thanks for taking time to share your thoughts.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: March 16, 2009 12:43AM
GodsWarrior
Please tell us your story!
or
Are you here to defend Mike? because that is what I keep reading in your postings.
Mike is a big boy and he does not need you to hold his hand or prop him up or change his diapers.
We will continue to invite Mike to come on to this web site and or meet us in public and give us an account for,
Following Tony Cunningham,
Embracing Tony as a spiritual icon
Embracing Tony as a spiritual father and accepting all of Tony's false teachings.
Teaching Tony's SOMA Curriculum
presenting himself as an apostle
presenting his wife as a prophetess
presenting himself as a teacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ while embracing teachings like Spiritual Parenting, Covenant Authority.....
just to name a few.
Oh, maybe I should just cut to the quick and call you "MIKES_WARRIOR."
BraveHeart
Please tell us your story!
or
Are you here to defend Mike? because that is what I keep reading in your postings.
Mike is a big boy and he does not need you to hold his hand or prop him up or change his diapers.
We will continue to invite Mike to come on to this web site and or meet us in public and give us an account for,
Following Tony Cunningham,
Embracing Tony as a spiritual icon
Embracing Tony as a spiritual father and accepting all of Tony's false teachings.
Teaching Tony's SOMA Curriculum
presenting himself as an apostle
presenting his wife as a prophetess
presenting himself as a teacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ while embracing teachings like Spiritual Parenting, Covenant Authority.....
just to name a few.
Oh, maybe I should just cut to the quick and call you "MIKES_WARRIOR."
BraveHeart
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