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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: LearningPoint ()
Date: March 15, 2009 10:06AM

God's Warrior: Just a point of clarification: You asked, "Am I an apologist because I said I love the church and leadership? What did I apologize for? I support them and that is it."

Aplogetics is the field of defending the faith, not apologizing in the "I'm sorry" sense. Here's the dictionary definition: "the branch of theology concerned with the defense or proof of Christianity."

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Northwest ()
Date: March 15, 2009 10:16AM

I read brave heart’s post in which he quoted Mike from his sermon “Recession Proof: Your Profession” My initial reaction was to say that Braveheart took what he was saying out of context and give mike the benefit of the doubt. I went and listened to the sermon and would encourage people here to start at about the halfway point of it and listen for a few minutes to find the part BHeart referenced. His account was actually being nice to mike. I don’t know if I would use the word demonize, but other than that the verse was Ephesians 4:11 and not timothy it was pretty accurate account.

In mikes sermon he stated that the church is open about the fact that they believe in apostolic ministry and prosperity doctrine. Mike also stated that he finds it funny that people posting on here act like mike is trying to hide this.

I would ask mike?
Have you ever publicly declared in front of the church that you are an apostle? Does it say on your website that you are an apostle? Do you want people addressing you as apostle? While you do have a soma class called 5 fold and you occasionally say words like “apostolic ministry,” you don’t ever make it clear that you believe you are the “lead apostle,” of a church and that you have very little accountability accept in your private classes.


Also are you aware why people think it is wrong of you to teach prosperity and that this very teaching that your are laughing about has devastated families.

In his sermon he said something like: “I giggle every time I read that someone saying, ‘They teach prosperity at tp, or they believe in the apostolic ministry.’ ….Of course we believe this.”


I wonder if he would feel comfortable saying: “I giggle every time I read someone saying, ‘I have no accountability, all but one elder are on staff, they are all yes men , and we are no longer an elder led church but an apostle led church.’ Of course we believe this; we are not trying to hide that.”

Mike also stated:

“I don’t preach prosperity to benefit me; it is to be a conduit.”

Having personally seen all of the people who come over to mikes house and serve him, I found it that statement ironic. I wonder if he would feel comfortable listing all of the things that people have bought for him. Harley, landscaping, deck, people cleaning your house regularly, doing your laundry, various honorariums, people washing your cars, and serving your every need so that they can get the “righteous mans reward.” I’m sure he could use all of this as a great illustration of being a conduit.

(to mikes credit he did give away the jeep that was given to him, however this was probably because he was running out of room in his garage ,lol)

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: BraveHeart ()
Date: March 15, 2009 11:12AM

NorthWest
thanks for correcting me on the Timothy reffrence (my bad)

I also have an insight into the term "CONDUIT" if you take some time and study comparitive religion and cults you will find that people who practice witchcraft or channel the spirits of the dead will often refer to themselves as the CONDUIT.

So the question we need to ask is where in the bible did Jesus ask us to be the conduit? is that not the roll of the Holy Spirit?

when Mike makes comments like “I don’t preach prosperity to benefit me; it is to be a conduit.”

Mike, for the sake of the church get over yourself!....Please STOP IT!!! step down from ministry!
You are a false apostle!

BraveHeart

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Brokenhearted ()
Date: March 15, 2009 11:47AM

Okay, I'm getting ready to listen to last weeks sermon, but I have to bring up a point that's been bugging me since I first noticed it. How many times have the people on this forum been accused of gossip? Did pastor mike accuse this forum of gossip in his message (I'm about to find out)?

But, if he is addressing the things that we are saying here, to the body, but not to us....if he is twisting and misstating our concerns....again, to the body, but not to those of us here on the board....isn't THAT gossip?

Is pastor mike now doing exactly what we've been accused of doing, or warned against?

Isn't he doing exactly what he's instructing soma students, and staff, and the body to avoid doing?

Is pastor mike feeding the rumor mill by implying (or boldly stating) false statements about the people that are posting here?

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Veilednomore ()
Date: March 15, 2009 11:51AM

Sorry the scripture I meant to reference is Phillipians 2:1-11
1If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

I would like to put this out there in reference to the above scripture.
When we have Christs love for all they feel it. When we attack those that post in a position favorable to TPC we simply send them running more determined than ever to follow the leadership. Many like myself still have great love and relationships with TPC men and women. Many come here with questions or with there minds not made up as to which way to go. Then they see something other than Christ reflected and they run screaming back to their comfort zone.

VNM

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Veilednomore ()
Date: March 15, 2009 12:01PM

I have seen the question asked about spiritual parenting several times and no one has truly answerd.
I have seen several people answer that TPC no longer practices it. This is only partially true. I cleary remember when the topic of spiritual parenting came up. We were all told that we were "to no longer consider those who were crucial in our walk to be our spiritual parents" and here is were it it gets ugly "the only people we should consider as spiritual parents are Mike and Cyndi because they are the head of the church" This was a word that came directly from an elder of TPC and not the one that left.

VNM

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: GodsWarrior ()
Date: March 15, 2009 12:17PM

Quote
Brokenhearted
Okay, I'm getting ready to listen to last weeks sermon, but I have to bring up a point that's been bugging me since I first noticed it. How many times have the people on this forum been accused of gossip? Did pastor mike accuse this forum of gossip in his message (I'm about to find out)?

But, if he is addressing the things that we are saying here, to the body, but not to us....if he is twisting and misstating our concerns....again, to the body, but not to those of us here on the board....isn't THAT gossip?

Is pastor mike now doing exactly what we've been accused of doing, or warned against?

Isn't he doing exactly what he's instructing soma students, and staff, and the body to avoid doing?

Is pastor mike feeding the rumor mill by implying (or boldly stating) false statements about the people that are posting here?
He does not accuse the people on here of gossiping. He said there are enemies but does not say anything about this website. I was at both services.
I believe that people posting on here twist his words and actions on a regular basis. There are alot of hear-say statements. I would never expect to see him on here responding to any of these posts. Some people on here would be receptive and happy he was answering questions and others would pull apart every word he said. I am sure any of you can guess which posters on here would do what.
I know that I could ask him one on one any of the questions being asked here and get it answered and I will ask him the ones that are important to me.
I don't think he is addressing the body about what is being said here. I believe he is being asked alot of the same questions being asked here and is hearing alot about how upset people on here are and also people are concerned due to all of the negative publicity with the newspaper articles and this and other websites. From what I can see I am the only person on this forum who is not anti-turning point.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: tell the truth ()
Date: March 15, 2009 12:29PM

I was talking with someone from tp the other day and listened as he spoke of those who are sent vs. those who 'went' . I asked him, since I knew him to be a good friend of Pastor Jackie and Sids how he was dealing with them being gone and if it had disrupted the balance in any way. He said, well, Pastor Mike and Cyndi believe that they will be back and that there is a season for going out. It appears the reason they are not saying good'bye to Jackie in a formal way is because they believe she will see the error of her way and will be back. I asked this guy if it was at all possible that the pastors would rebuke the Apostolistic ministry and his response was "it is possible and that many things in the church have changed over the years"

It struck me as I talked to him how convinced he was that Mike and Cyndi were right and how many people believe what they said. I was reading my devotional this morning and the verses were from 2nd Chronicles 20. Vs 15 .... "This is what the Lord says to you:'Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God's." Vs 17 "You will not have to fight this battle. Take up your positions; stand firm and see the deliverance the Lord will give you, O Judah and Jerusalen. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Go out to face them tomorrow, and the Lord will be with you." Vs 22 "As they began to sing and praise, the Lord set ambuses against the men of Ammon and Moab and Mount Seir who were invading Judah, and they were defeated."

My Bible goes on to explain in the study section "Do not be afraid or discouraged...For the battle is not yours, but God's." We may not fight an enemy army, but every day we battle temptation, pressure, and "rulers....of this dark world" who want us to rebel against God. Remember, as believers we have God's Spirit in us. If we ask for God's help when we face struggles, God will fight for us. And God always triumphs."

I just wanted to share that with those who are disheartened or struggling with the fallout from the disappointment and hurt they experienced at tp and continue to experience. God is in control and He will bring low those who oppose the truth and lead lambs to unrighteousness. Because our only righteousness is in Jesus, leading the lambs to the false apostle is leading them to unrighteousness. How sad and heartbreaking. God's heart must hurt.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Brokenhearted ()
Date: March 15, 2009 12:37PM

Northwest ~ I will c&p your questions, and add a couple of my own....

I would ask mike?
Have you ever publicly declared in front of the church that you are an apostle? Does it say on your website that you are an apostle? Do you want people addressing you as apostle? While you do have a soma class called 5 fold and you occasionally say words like “apostolic ministry,” you don’t ever make it clear that you believe you are the “lead apostle,” of a church and that you have very little accountability accept in your private classes.

Have you declared in front of the church that you have changed the bylaws of the church?
Does the body know that you are changing the mission and vision of TPc?
Does the body know your salary?
Does the body know what has happened to the money that was raised to purchase a building?


Pastor Mike, I'm disappointed to hear that you giggle when you read the things that people have posted here. We are not laughing, we've been hurt deeply.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: outreach ()
Date: March 15, 2009 01:25PM

Mike if you are reading these messages, don't you get it. How many people are posting here and have had the same experience's at TP? How many other churches do you know out there that are having these kind of problems? I haven't seen any other forums. Now the church has made headlines again and they are not positive this time. Why don't you disclose to the church your salary? Other churches do. I don't hear them boast about everything they have and have had given to them. What about the people that are really suffering and going without. They are not getting help. I called once for some help for someone I know and all I got was that so and so said they already talked to them and they had been helped. "Not true" Was I being lied to?
I am really glad now that we didn't get that involved at TP., after all I have read in this forum of people being hurt. No they are not rebelling against the leadership they just had their eyes opened to the lies being taught by Mike & Cindy.
Mike and Cindy will be accountable to God one day for all they led astray and hurt.

Welcome to the new ones that just come on board and shared their stories.

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