Veiled,

Thank you for the additional posts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2009 02:27PM by TurningPointReject.

Jeremiah 17:9-10 (New International Version)


9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

10 "I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve."

Here is my take on a passage from Revelations 2

"To the angel of the church in MARYSVILLE & SACRAMENTO Thyatira write: These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze.
I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.
Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate TONY CUNNINGHAM, MIKE & CINDI VILLAMOR that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess AND APOSTLE. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.
I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she TONY & MIKE is unwilling.
So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
Now I say to the rest of you in MARYSVILLE & SACRAMENTO Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come.
To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations-
'He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery' - just as I have received authority from my Father.
I will also give him the morning star.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
(Revelations 2:18)NIV

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Veilednomore

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rrmoderator
nooneofanyimportence:

My concern is to keep the forum a free and reasonable place for people to express their concerns openly.

There isn't a problem with dissenting views, just people who are not really interested in an open and honest exchange of ideas, but instead simply come here to be disruptive and subvert a thread.

So who moderates the moderator. You have on many occasions said that GW was being subversive and disruptive. Like I stated before I know this individual and yes he is currently still at TPC but he has questions which we have all seen. He also wanted us to hold to a higher standard of dialogue instead of just a "bashing the leadership of TPC" which I have witnessed here on many occasions. I do not have a problem with the censorship as long as it goes both ways and in all honesty it does not.

By not allowing truly open debate on this forum we change the focus of the forum from the problems at TPC to the lack of fair dialogue within the board. I admit I have an unfair advantage over you as I actualy know the person and know his heart in this. It truly is not to be subvertive and devisive.

I will continue to monitor and perhaps post but I have concerns about the true motives behind the author and moderator of this board.
Trust me in this I have sought it out in prayer and fasting and the word and the actions just don't quite line up. You also should search your heart and see if fairness and equality are your core motives?

whatever the truth is about G. W. shall remain unknown, but the topic has definatly changed on here, into a whos riight and whos wrong about who he was and what he was doing. I guess youve forgotten why this site was formed and its purpose, for people to testify of thier experience with tp and find out if it is a distructive church. I can hear the sermon right now. see the posters are attacking each other the enemy is being defeated, now we can go back to the business of advancing our kingdom.

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nooneofanyimportence

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Veilednomore

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rrmoderator
nooneofanyimportence:

My concern is to keep the forum a free and reasonable place for people to express their concerns openly.

There isn't a problem with dissenting views, just people who are not really interested in an open and honest exchange of ideas, but instead simply come here to be disruptive and subvert a thread.

So who moderates the moderator. You have on many occasions said that GW was being subversive and disruptive. Like I stated before I know this individual and yes he is currently still at TPC but he has questions which we have all seen. He also wanted us to hold to a higher standard of dialogue instead of just a "bashing the leadership of TPC" which I have witnessed here on many occasions. I do not have a problem with the censorship as long as it goes both ways and in all honesty it does not.

By not allowing truly open debate on this forum we change the focus of the forum from the problems at TPC to the lack of fair dialogue within the board. I admit I have an unfair advantage over you as I actualy know the person and know his heart in this. It truly is not to be subvertive and devisive.

I will continue to monitor and perhaps post but I have concerns about the true motives behind the author and moderator of this board.
Trust me in this I have sought it out in prayer and fasting and the word and the actions just don't quite line up. You also should search your heart and see if fairness and equality are your core motives?

whatever the truth is about G. W. shall remain unknown, but the topic has definatly changed on here, into a whos riight and whos wrong about who he was and what he was doing. I guess youve forgotten why this site was formed and its purpose, for people to testify of thier experience with tp and find out if it is a distructive church. I can hear the sermon right now. see the posters are attacking each other the enemy is being defeated, now we can go back to the business of advancing our kingdom.

This thought had crossed my mind yesturday and I think many have also felt the same way. But this is only temporary and it is good for people to give one or two thoughts on this before moving on. Like this one for example. But it looks like we're getting back on track.

Good day, and a top of the morning to ya!
here is the fact there tactic worked it got every one off topic & off track. These people can be evil, thoes who will pose to be real and genuine. typicaly there are two posters that will get into a blog and start to stirring the pot. The RRmoderator has a gift of discernment!
Don't let them get you down.

BraveHeart

I Encourage you to check out Tony's new business

Resonance Institute

just to stay on task

Mike is still embracing the many false teachings of Tony Cunningham.

and the church is tolerating TONY CUNNINGHAM, MIKE & CINDI VILLAMOR
They embody the spirit of that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess.

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Veilednomore

Quote
rrmoderator
nooneofanyimportence:

My concern is to keep the forum a free and reasonable place for people to express their concerns openly.

There isn't a problem with dissenting views, just people who are not really interested in an open and honest exchange of ideas, but instead simply come here to be disruptive and subvert a thread.

So who moderates the moderator. You have on many occasions said that GW was being subversive and disruptive. Like I stated before I know this individual and yes he is currently still at TPC but he has questions which we have all seen. He also wanted us to hold to a higher standard of dialogue instead of just a "bashing the leadership of TPC" which I have witnessed here on many occasions. I do not have a problem with the censorship as long as it goes both ways and in all honesty it does not.

By not allowing truly open debate on this forum we change the focus of the forum from the problems at TPC to the lack of fair dialogue within the board. I admit I have an unfair advantage over you as I actualy know the person and know his heart in this. It truly is not to be subvertive and devisive.

I will continue to monitor and perhaps post but I have concerns about the true motives behind the author and moderator of this board.
Trust me in this I have sought it out in prayer and fasting and the word and the actions just don't quite line up. You also should search your heart and see if fairness and equality are your core motives?

Veiled,

I have found most of your posts to be thoughtful and rational. They have encouraged me. Thank you.

As I stated in my PM I am intrigued by a few of your comments in the above post. I hope you will take some time to elaborate.

You state you know the heart of GW. Many of us do NOT know the heart of GW. The heart is deceitful. Who can know it? Please share with us GW's heart as GW did not do that clearly in any of his/her posts.

Secondly, you say you have "witnessed the bashing of the leadership of TPC" here on this forum. Please share with us some examples.

Finally, you insinuate that the author and the moderator have ulterior motives. Do you know their hearts as well? Please share with us what you believe their motives to be.

I believe your insights in each of these areas can help all of us be more effective in our communication and our posting. We anxiously await your response.

Thanks.

I pulled the following from the RLc thread as I believe it is pertinent to this thread. Not long ago,(less than 45 days ago) Tony C was invited to address the leaders at Turning Point Church. I think the following post should be read carefully and should provoke some serious dialogue and questions. This is the man whom Mike considers a "spiritual authority" and who serves as Mikes "spiritual father". Many of Mikes leadership methods and philosophies come directly from Tony C. With this in mind, I wonder if you remove Tony C's name from the following post and insert Mike Vs name if you might not have a glimpse into the future of TPc.

Some questions to consider:

Is Mike dissolving the Elder board? If so, why?
Is Mike calling for the by laws to be rewritten? If so, to what purpose?
Does Mike consider TPc "his" church?
What does Mike believe he "deserves" but is not yet receiving from the TPc?
What is Mike's "New Vision" for TPc and why does it change?

---

Many of the posts here seem to be aimed at an emotional level and I feel that some overlook, what was for me, the quintessential event that led to the largest exodus away from RLC. Aside from the glaring spiritual problems that Tony C. teaches and are discussed on this forum, there as some simple issues that don’t require “Christian-ese” to look at. In fact the average non believer can even see the problems when looking at this.

This is going to be long, but please bear with it.

Here is a synopsis of the meeting that took place on November 1, 2008 and the definitive confirmation for me to take my family and leave. The things that Tony said and left for speculation were, at the least, truly astonishing. I have done my best to separate my personal feelings so that I could stay objective and simply report the facts that I witnessed.

Tony Cunningham held a short notice RLC Membership meeting under the guise of casting vision for a new direction that he felt God calling him to. (The concept, of the vision was good, for the most part. After that part was done, the meeting took a turn for the Surreal.)

He started by stating that he could “no longer work under the conditions he is under with the present Board of Elders.” He began to share how the board had “handcuffed” him and prevented him from speaking with “his Boss, the body at 7710 Stockton Blvd.”.

He proceeded to lay out many charges against the Elder board including:
- Rewriting the by-laws to remove him from the Elder Board (one year prior) without his knowledge.
- Having meetings with his “Staff” without his knowledge.
- Preventing him from calling meetings
- He also made reference to some other things that he would not be specific about because he wasn’t suppose to talk about them in public.

He then requested that he be sent out to plant new churches under his new vision. He also requested he be given $100,000.00 plus One year’s salary. He said that “since HE built up the church and spent 17 years doing it,” that he “actually deserve more than that”. Further, he asked for one year’s salary for all pastors and staff that decide to come with him.

This started a frenzy of questions, statements, accusations and generally riled up the audience.

Finally one of the elders, who was sitting in the front on the side, volunteered to discuss everything and attempt to come to a resolution. While he was speaking, Tony turned around and walked away, rolling his eyes. Another elder, who was sitting in the front on the other side, spoke up and said, he too, was willing to do the same and he asked the Third Elder (sitting in the audience), who agreed also. Then he asked Tony, who initially agreed. Then the first Elder, asked that there be allowance for open discussion amongst them with a moderator. Tony then dismissed the whole concept saying there wasn’t time in the meeting.

Many questions were asked and none really answered very clearly. But one question in particular that stood out as very telling and Poignant to Tony’s character at this moment. The question asked was. “Who have you raised up to take over once you leave?” His reply was very important and MUST be carefully analyzed. He said, “I have raised up many capable people that could step in to my place, but I believe that all of them would come with me.” He then turned away and fielded another question. (This, in my opinion is no better than someone telling me, “you’re on your own, it’s not my problem and I don’t care.”)

As the meeting progressed, someone brought up disbanding the board and starting over, essentially “pushing Reset” if Tony would agree to stay on. He re-presented this to the crowd as an option to him leaving and became the item to be voted on. Not too long later, I ended up leaving in disgust at the manipulative “witch hunt” I had just witnessed. Later as was witnessed by others, and by fact, the body elected a new elder board and Elders 1 & 2 from above, resigned the next day.

Tony always preached from the Pulpit that “words are weighty” and my experience with him is that he has always chosen his words very carefully. So, with this in mind, consider the following…

- Tony said he could No longer work under the current conditions with the elder board.
o One of the Elders main functions is to keep the pastor Accountable and protect the body if he goes awry. So, if he can’t work with the elders anymore, why is that?

- Tony said the Elders changed the Bylaws without his knowledge and removed him from the board.
o Per a member of the elder board and other elders, a copy of the new Bylaws was delivered to Tony several weeks before the board voted on it with a note asking for his input. Per that elder, it sat on his desk and he never responded.

- Tony said that the Elders held meetings with his staff that he was not invited to.
o Per a member of the Elder Board, Tony was emailed several days in advance every time they met with the staff. Tony never responded.

- Tony said that the elders tried to cancel this meeting and kept him from calling others.
o Per the Elders I spoke with, Tony never asked for general meetings.
o Per the Elders I spoke with, they tried to get Tony to postpone the Nov. 1st meeting for a week to get out proper notification and stay in compliance with Federal Guidelines of at least seven (7) days notice for Non-Profit Organizations (IRC 501(C )(3)). Tony refused to postpone the meeting. The meeting was announced through a phone blast on the Wednesday 4 days prior to the meeting and announced from the pulpit that morning.
o Tony always taught, from the pulpit, to Honor the authority that God has placed over you. So, where is his honor and respect to the US Government who was placed over him by God?

- The Elders offered to discuss the issues at hand so they could ”try to resolve any problems and move on in repentance if needed and in forgiveness”. Tony refused it.
o Tony’s response was to walk away from the Elder speaking and Rolled his eyes while walking away. Remember, Tony always taught in SOMA and from the Pulpit that “Rolling yours eyes” at someone showed disdain for that person or what they were saying.

Here are the main issues at hand and where my own analysis and, sometimes, opinion come in.

Tony asked for a huge sum of Money to go away and do what he feels called to do.
- Can you say Extortion? Tony didn’t want to leave; he wanted to manipulate the people into thinking he wanted to leave and get them to come up with a way for him to stay.
- If his desire was truly just to leave, wouldn’t he have simply announced God was calling him away and give a date? (Like every other pastor I’ve ever been under or known (and there are many)).

Tony didn’t completely answer questions.
- Remember the example “who have you raised up…?”. He didn’t answer the question. This says, “I don’t care about you, you’re on your own.”
- Avoiding answering questions and giving partial statements is contemptuous to the one asking the question.

Tony blatantly ignored the Authority of our Government (whom God has put in place over us) and held an illegitimate meeting and vote. He even ignored the requests of others to postpone it to stay in compliance. He refused.
- According to Tony’s own words and teachings, this kind of action is arrogant defiance. When did he become exempt?

Tony Lied about the Elders actions.

Tony refused to attempt to settle differences, offer compromise, or offer forgiveness (if needed) to the Elders that were there.

Tony attempted to Extort Hundreds of thousands of dollars from the church body.
Tony demonstrated no empathy to the people who were questioning him on what would happen if he left.

Tony manipulated the audience into getting what he wanted. (Which seems to be no true accountability as no one who will stand up to him and say he is wrong.)

Some people may think that some of these things are petty, but someone can’t be honorable and honest in the little things, how can we expect him to be so in the larger things?

To the people who are still at Radiant Life Church, I have a question for you. Why do you allow yourself to be lead by a Lying, Unforgiving, Manipulating, Arrogant, Extortionist to lead you and offer you spiritual covering?

In the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

Some come here in an attempt to "discredit" this forum.
It happens more often than we realize.

Please, read the posts. Read the stories.

But, more importantly, ask your leaders the tough questions.
Don't buy anything you read on this forum at face value.
Examine your own experience at TPc.
Study the Bible and measure Mike's words and actions against God's Word.
Pray and ask your Father for discernment.