I will be honest. I had moments, over the last three, maybe four years that we were at TP, that I struggled with envy, and pride. There were many times that my motive was not love, but self promotion. I recognized it in myself, my husband noticed it. We had to come against it time and time again. I know that there were times that I was harsh, legalistic, and had unrealistic expectations of others. I recognized this in myself, and I walked around carrying the burden of guilt constantly. I truly wanted to rejoice with those who were receiving worldly honor, blessing and promotion, but I just couldn't shake that feeling that it wasn't right. Sometimes it was b/c I wasn't the one receiving said blessings, and other times it was the Holy Spirit giving me a check.

I watched as others received verbal "lashings", and I justified it, b/c the persons had asked for "councel", telling myself that they deserved it, and thinking how much better I was b/c I didn't need it, that time, I got my fair share at other times. I never would have, in a million years, thought that I would have "put up with" some of the "discipline" that I witnessed and endured, my dh either. We were well "groomed".

Ultimately, we left TP b/c of the abusive nature, and b/c of the false doctrine. It was NOT b/c we were hurt (though we were, very much so).

And, to Tell the Truth, I can only speak for myself, but the desire for a public statement is not rooted in a desire to see them humiliated and beaten down. It is born of a desire for complete transparency, for the whole truth to be told, to allow the spirit to heal. Healing and transformation can not happen in the darkness, it ALL needs to be exposed to the light. Yes, it's all in the Lord's hands, but my prayer is that the leaders who promoted all of this mess (and caused it) will confess and repent, and expose it themselves, before the Lord steps in and does it for them!

Each individual is responsible for their part, and needs to react accordingly, but I believe that confesssion and repentence need to start at the top.

Judging from the lack of information on this forum, I am suspicious that there must be some real damage control going on at TPC. If there weren't then I would be reading all the facts and figures right here. There is no reason why I nor anyone else should be lack of information about what had and is happening there. I am also suspicious that it goes beyond "saving face". Something happened, something is up and there is a big question as to WHY it is such a secret. I know when someone is hiding something and this is it. A big WHY is my question. People don't hide major issues for no reason. It stinks like 3 day old fish.

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Brokenhearted
I will be honest. I had moments, over the last three, maybe four years that we were at TP, that I struggled with envy, and pride. There were many times that my motive was not love, but self promotion. I recognized it in myself, my husband noticed it. We had to come against it time and time again. I know that there were times that I was harsh, legalistic, and had unrealistic expectations of others. I recognized this in myself, and I walked around carrying the burden of guilt constantly. I truly wanted to rejoice with those who were receiving worldly honor, blessing and promotion, but I just couldn't shake that feeling that it wasn't right. Sometimes it was b/c I wasn't the one receiving said blessings, and other times it was the Holy Spirit giving me a check.

I watched as others received verbal "lashings", and I justified it, b/c the persons had asked for "councel", telling myself that they deserved it, and thinking how much better I was b/c I didn't need it, that time, I got my fair share at other times. I never would have, in a million years, thought that I would have "put up with" some of the "discipline" that I witnessed and endured, my dh either. We were well "groomed".

Ultimately, we left TP b/c of the abusive nature, and b/c of the false doctrine. It was NOT b/c we were hurt (though we were, very much so).

And, to Tell the Truth, I can only speak for myself, but the desire for a public statement is not rooted in a desire to see them humiliated and beaten down. It is born of a desire for complete transparency, for the whole truth to be told, to allow the spirit to heal. Healing and transformation can not happen in the darkness, it ALL needs to be exposed to the light. Yes, it's all in the Lord's hands, but my prayer is that the leaders who promoted all of this mess (and caused it) will confess and repent, and expose it themselves, before the Lord steps in and does it for them!

Each individual is responsible for their part, and needs to react accordingly, but I believe that confesssion and repentence need to start at the top.

thank you brokenhearted for your honesty I totally relate, I too suffered from selfseeking motives, hoping if I achieved my goals my inadequacies would dissapear thank God He didnt let that work, and I wasnt able to justify them away. the deal with repentence and honesty from turningpoint seem so true. the word says and I have experienced this statement the truth will make you free. I havent experienced any freedom from what has been said at turning point. thats why my question about our or my motives have to be answered honestly first, and I can honestly say without ranting on a self defensive mode, that I left t p totaly because of the dishonesty, I coulnt trust people who claim to be godly, but lie unrepently, who justiy their dishonesty in any way other then I'm a wretched sinner and forgive me. yes the doctrine ran askew, but I believe that was just a symptom of leaders not living godly lives, causing the Holy spirit to quite guiding them. I could no longer support finanicaly or emotionaly their cause. the verse what profits a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul has greatly effected my life and decissions I find myself saying many times, (showing the weakness of my faith) God I sure hope your real and that word is true. because if You and it isnt I'm totally screwed

Yes, deception! That too was at the top of our list. The abuse and deception were the big points. At the point that we left, we didn't even realize how far off the doctrine had become, so, it was a reason, but it wasn't THE reason, or even the most important reason. It wasn't until we were completely out of that environment, and really sought the Lord, without TP's spin on everything, that we had realized how far off things had become.

I agree with you about the false doctrine being a symptom of the deceptive lives and general heart condition of the leaders.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2010 07:07AM by Brokenhearted.

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nooneofanyimportence

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Brokenhearted
I will be honest. I had moments, over the last three, maybe four years that we were at TP, that I struggled with envy, and pride. There were many times that my motive was not love, but self promotion. I recognized it in myself, my husband noticed it. We had to come against it time and time again. I know that there were times that I was harsh, legalistic, and had unrealistic expectations of others. I recognized this in myself, and I walked around carrying the burden of guilt constantly. I truly wanted to rejoice with those who were receiving worldly honor, blessing and promotion, but I just couldn't shake that feeling that it wasn't right. Sometimes it was b/c I wasn't the one receiving said blessings, and other times it was the Holy Spirit giving me a check.

I watched as others received verbal "lashings", and I justified it, b/c the persons had asked for "councel", telling myself that they deserved it, and thinking how much better I was b/c I didn't need it, that time, I got my fair share at other times. I never would have, in a million years, thought that I would have "put up with" some of the "discipline" that I witnessed and endured, my dh either. We were well "groomed".

Ultimately, we left TP b/c of the abusive nature, and b/c of the false doctrine. It was NOT b/c we were hurt (though we were, very much so).

And, to Tell the Truth, I can only speak for myself, but the desire for a public statement is not rooted in a desire to see them humiliated and beaten down. It is born of a desire for complete transparency, for the whole truth to be told, to allow the spirit to heal. Healing and transformation can not happen in the darkness, it ALL needs to be exposed to the light. Yes, it's all in the Lord's hands, but my prayer is that the leaders who promoted all of this mess (and caused it) will confess and repent, and expose it themselves, before the Lord steps in and does it for them!

Each individual is responsible for their part, and needs to react accordingly, but I believe that confesssion and repentence need to start at the top.

thank you brokenhearted for your honesty I totally relate, I too suffered from selfseeking motives, hoping if I achieved my goals my inadequacies would dissapear thank God He didnt let that work, and I wasnt able to justify them away. the deal with repentence and honesty from turningpoint seem so true. the word says and I have experienced this statement the truth will make you free. I havent experienced any freedom from what has been said at turning point. thats why my question about our or my motives have to be answered honestly first, and I can honestly say without ranting on a self defensive mode, that I left t p totaly because of the dishonesty, I coulnt trust people who claim to be godly, but lie unrepently, who justiy their dishonesty in any way other then I'm a wretched sinner and forgive me. yes the doctrine ran askew, but I believe that was just a symptom of leaders not living godly lives, causing the Holy spirit to quite guiding them. I could no longer support finanicaly or emotionaly their cause. the verse what profits a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul has greatly effected my life and decissions I find myself saying many times, (showing the weakness of my faith) God I sure hope your real and that word is true. because if You and it isnt I'm totally screwed

nooneofanyimportence i really liked what and how you said this. i wish i could speak my feelings out like you. you and brokenhearted said exactly what i wanted to convey.... just not medicated! HA! I have had to ask God to forgive me. Even when we started our new place of worship, I had to make myself NOT be involved. You know? Still, today, I ask God to forgive me. I WAS part of that group. I WAS and sometimes yes, still hungry for achieving leadership role. I don't like being inadequate. BUT I am! Sometimes I feel like I lost 9-10 yrs and try getting it all back. It feels like I keep trying to live up to someones standards. In my mind i know it's only gods standards! Oh but how the world seeps in! AHHHHH! Thank you for your post! I was feeling pretty crummy today.........

Wow TLT... You have absolutely no clue what our family went through. I don't even know what you went through. This is a forum where people can heal. Truth is Truth. "tell the truth" I didn't write to make anyone feel bad. It's just truth. I don't remember saying anything about newspapers. If i did.... well, that's my own business NOT yours.

WE ALL heal in our own way. There are different LEVELS of healing. I'm sorry is you felt I discounted your feelings. My bad. It sounds like you may have a personal bone to pick with me from years ago. If you do, please let me know personally. I'm very sorry for your hurts. Take care.... Miki





Thank you Miki for your very eloquent rant. We attended TP off and on for over oh, about 8 years, but attended consistently for 11 months. I never got close enough to get disciplined, and well, I would not have put up with it because that is just who I am, just as those who did are just who they are which doesn't make us good or bad..it just is. We actually attended a small group with you, and well, that is all I will say. And I do know what you went through in a measure, because I went through a portion myself and much more recent than you did. You left what 5 years ago and you are still struggling with this and I am sorry that you are. As I stated in an earlier post, we left for a few different reasons. And, for your really abusive rant (yes it appears you can be abusive as well), it is very incongruent with how you try to appear on this forum. We have dear friends who attended TP for years, and have listened to their hearts hurt, and friends who were abused there who we have supported and loved and in a very real sense fought for through the spirit as they faced false allegations and accusations. You do not have to be in an abusive atmosphere for years to experience hurt. In some sense, we felt what our friends felt which is called vicarious traumatization. Experiencing trauma through another. Discounting each other and verbally attacking each other on this forum is very hurtful and you have really discounted my experience. I wish I could delete each one of my posts. I believe this forum has now become a hindrance and in some sense a witch hunt. Let's hang them all up high so the world will see how terrible they are. Let's make them hurt because they hurt me. That is the job of Satan, not Gods' army. Others have said that they did repent, and I am happy for them and for me. But, ask yourself, were you/we held to public ridicule? Would that have made your repentence any better? Is that what God requires? The problem has been exposed. Let God handle it. Going to the newspaper only makes God's people look even worse than we already do. But that is each individuals choice. For me, I'm done here. Thanks Miki. I hope you achieve some healing in your life. I have tried to post honestly on this forum and not be something I am not. At times I have said things that aren't perhaps the complete truth so others cannot discover who I am. It is one of the rules of the forum. OK, well, see ya all around. Bye now. Feel free to now abuse me at my exit.[/quote]

TPCWOC Home web site under sermons; It appears that all of false Apostle Mike Villamor and Cyndi's sermons have been removed from the TPCWOC home web site. Also the picture of the womens ministry director is removed. But the picture of the false teacher of Marketplace ministry is still up!

Fact - Rick Lewis has stepped down as an elder. We know this because his picture has been removed and it has been acknowledged that Rick resigned as an elder. I have been told, but have not spoken to Rick and Kari to confirm that he was asked to step down because he was "causing trouble." Causing trouble we all know is TPC speak for not going along with what the TPC hierarchy have said the official story will be. Those who are friends with him on Facebook have talked about the humble apology that he posted there. We should all be ready to reach out as they will be where many of us were a little over a year ago.

Fact - The TPC Building fund or what was left was siezed by the bank after Mike's golden parachute was paid from the building fund. The fund was pledged as collateral for mortgages for TPC acquisitions and it is understandable the bank would seize the money if TPC was spending pledged funds.

Fact - TPC paid Mike $50K to go away.

Fact - TPC is still hiding material information in an attempt to salvage what they can.

Fact - Ron Olin is neck deep in a lot of the problems that have plagued TPC since he became an elder. The obscene salary that Mike was paid was because Elder Olin used his influence in the salary review committee to get Mike that last raise which infuriated so many. Elder Olin was working with Mike on TPC property acqusitions after heading up the Stewardship Campaign.

Fact - Partner churches in Summer Jubilee are handing out school supplies at alternative locations and only TPC will be at Asbery Field. They believe in the purpose of SJ, they just don't want to be associated with TPC.

The people who remain at TPC have been told that some of the teachings that came from Pastor Mike were false. Those who some had voted most likely to follow Mike off the cliff, are now trying to make sense of what has happened and trying to figure out where from here and what about their walk with the Lord. That is the reason for the silence. We always said we would be here to embrace them on their healing journey. Perhaps there were some who did not listen.

It doesn't smell like three day old fish. As a matter of fact it doesn't stink at all. It is the beginning of a healing process for the body and staff of TPC which is going to take some time.

Saddened



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2010 08:03AM by Saddened.

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Saddened
Fact - Rick Lewis has stepped down as an elder. We know this because his picture has been removed and it has been acknowledged that Rick resigned as an elder. I have been told, but have not spoken to Rick and Kari to confirm that he was asked to step down because he was "causing trouble." Causing trouble we all know is TPC speak for not going along with what the TPC hierarchy have said the official story will be. Those who are friends with him on Facebook have talked about the humble apology that he posted there. We should all be ready to reach out as they will be where many of us were a little over a year ago.

Fact - The TPC Building fund or what was left was siezed by the bank after Mike's golden parachute was paid from the building fund. The fund was pledged as collateral for mortgages for TPC acquisitions and it is understandable the bank would seize the money if TPC was spending pledged funds.

Fact - TPC paid Mike $50K to go away.

Fact - TPC is still hiding material information in an attempt to salvage what they can.

Fact - Ron Olin is neck deep in a lot of the problems that have plagued TPC since he became an elder. The obscene salary that Mike was paid was because Elder Olin used his influence in the salary review committee to get Mike that last raise which infuriated so many. Elder Olin was working with Mike on TPC property acqusitions after heading up the Stewardship Campaign.

Fact - Partner churches in Summer Jubilee are handing out school supplies at alternative locations and only TPC will be at Asbery Field. They believe in the purpose of SJ, they just don't want to be associated with TPC.

The people who remain at TPC have been told that some of the teachings that came from Pastor Mike were false. Those who some had voted most likely to follow Mike off the cliff, are now trying to make sense of what has happened and trying to figure out where from here and what about their walk with the Lord. That is the reason for the silence. We always said we would be here to embrace them on their healing journey. Perhaps there were some who did not listen.

It doesn't smell like three day old fish. As a matter of fact it doesn't stink at all. It is the beginning of a healing process for the body and staff of TPC which is going to take some time.

Saddened

Interesting. I have a few questions. I do not know if you can provide any insight but I will ask.

Now that the building fund has been seized, do you know if there will be a full and complete audit of ALL accounts related to TPC including Pacific Northwest Bible College? Do you know how many years that audit will explore?

Can you say definitively that Mike left with $50,000 or could it have been more?
Why did TPC want Mike to "go away" and why were they willing to pay Mike to go away?

When you say "hiding material information" what do you mean? Information in regards to what?

You mention that "people who remain at TPC have been told that some of the teachings that came from Pastor Mike were false." Were people told specific teachings were false or was it a blanket statement? If specific teachings were identified as "false" which teachings?

Thank you for your help.

TPR

If you are asking me for the name of individuals that gave me information, I am not going to provide them. It is my understanding that Mike's severance package was $50k and that the remaining elders signed IOUs to the building fund to pay Mike his severance package. Since this was not in accordance with the collateral agreement with the bank the building fund got siezed. Like so many all of the mortgaged TPC acquisitions are worse farless than the initial purchase value. As for a full and complete audit, I don't see that happening without a involving the courts. The bank cannot initiate one based on just the building fund seizure alone. Sure can not see TPC Elders requesting one -- can you?

TPC is not going to advertise that they knew that Mike was out of control before the sabbatical and they just let him go on when they could have acted sooner to stop him. So the material facts of who could have prevented so much hurt and pain to current and former members will always remain TPC's dirty little secret.

Not sure about just how the exact wording was phrased but there are a lot of Mike fans who have been sorely disillusioned.

Saddened

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TurningPointReject

Quote
Saddened
Fact - Rick Lewis has stepped down as an elder. We know this because his picture has been removed and it has been acknowledged that Rick resigned as an elder. I have been told, but have not spoken to Rick and Kari to confirm that he was asked to step down because he was "causing trouble." Causing trouble we all know is TPC speak for not going along with what the TPC hierarchy have said the official story will be. Those who are friends with him on Facebook have talked about the humble apology that he posted there. We should all be ready to reach out as they will be where many of us were a little over a year ago.

Fact - The TPC Building fund or what was left was siezed by the bank after Mike's golden parachute was paid from the building fund. The fund was pledged as collateral for mortgages for TPC acquisitions and it is understandable the bank would seize the money if TPC was spending pledged funds.

Fact - TPC paid Mike $50K to go away.

Fact - TPC is still hiding material information in an attempt to salvage what they can.

Fact - Ron Olin is neck deep in a lot of the problems that have plagued TPC since he became an elder. The obscene salary that Mike was paid was because Elder Olin used his influence in the salary review committee to get Mike that last raise which infuriated so many. Elder Olin was working with Mike on TPC property acqusitions after heading up the Stewardship Campaign.

Fact - Partner churches in Summer Jubilee are handing out school supplies at alternative locations and only TPC will be at Asbery Field. They believe in the purpose of SJ, they just don't want to be associated with TPC.

The people who remain at TPC have been told that some of the teachings that came from Pastor Mike were false. Those who some had voted most likely to follow Mike off the cliff, are now trying to make sense of what has happened and trying to figure out where from here and what about their walk with the Lord. That is the reason for the silence. We always said we would be here to embrace them on their healing journey. Perhaps there were some who did not listen.

It doesn't smell like three day old fish. As a matter of fact it doesn't stink at all. It is the beginning of a healing process for the body and staff of TPC which is going to take some time.

Saddened

Interesting. I have a few questions. I do not know if you can provide any insight but I will ask.

Now that the building fund has been seized, do you know if there will be a full and complete audit of ALL accounts related to TPC including Pacific Northwest Bible College? Do you know how many years that audit will explore?

Can you say definitively that Mike left with $50,000 or could it have been more?
Why did TPC want Mike to "go away" and why were they willing to pay Mike to go away?

When you say "hiding material information" what do you mean? Information in regards to what?

You mention that "people who remain at TPC have been told that some of the teachings that came from Pastor Mike were false." Were people told specific teachings were false or was it a blanket statement? If specific teachings were identified as "false" which teachings?

Thank you for your help.

TPR