I listened to Sunday's message. I cried. I have to make a conscious effort not to be skeptical. I just hope that this is the first step in the right direction. I won't even share my opinions about what I think SHOULD happen. Only time will tell if there is real repentance. In the mean time, I will continue to pray.

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buddy
Just finished listening to Jeff Barnes reconciliation sermon from last Sunday. Jeff talks about reconciliation with those who have been hurt. But says nothing about the false doctrine that has been taught TPCWOC. Wondering why that was not addressed, because that was the main reason why I left and believe others left for the same reason. Does anybody know if that has been addressed to the congregation by Jeff (Rock) Barnes. After listening to the sermon I went to the TPCWOC Home web site under Elder page and noticed false Apostle Mike and Cyndi Villamors pictures are missing. United Globel Ministry (UGM) was also missing. I hope and pray that Jeff is truly seeking to reconcile with all those who have been hurt, but also to confess and stop all the false teaching if he has not already done so. And disconnect there association with false teachers and churches like City Church, Casey Treats Church, Dr. Increase, Dr. Favor, prosperity word faith movement doctrines. Quit having false teachers in your church and quit sending your sheep to conferences where these wolves in sheeps clothing are devouring your flock. Jeff and company in my opinion are so indoctrinated into some of the false teaching that its going to be hard for him and others to come out from it. I have heard Jeff try and play down all the false doctrine as if it was only little doctrinal difference like the gift of speaking in tongues. In the mean time I will be waiting for my phone call from Jeff!

Hi Buddy did you get that phone call yet???

I though I would share this with you as it is very applicable to the issues you raised.
I lisened to the sermon dated
Sunday, June 27, 2010 "Possibility Living: Jesus Our Sheppard"

Jeff Barns is talking about Peter denying Jesus 3 times and Jeff made this comment "Jesus has died on the cross now, and his resurrected, person, Jesus is walking now for 40 days and is running into people..." Is Mr. Barns misspeaking or does he have a flawed view of who Jesus is? listening on Jeff keeps making the mistake of adding to the scripture, reading into what the disciples are thinking or feeling? Sorry Jeff this can be very dangerous exegesis and poor hermeneutics!

As Jeff goes on talking about why people leave churches I though I would share this with everyone

The music weeps, the preacher pleads, “Give your heart to Jesus. You have a God shaped hole in your heart and only Jesus can fill it.” Dozens, hundreds or thousands of people who want to get their spiritual life on track make their way to the altar. They ask Jesus into their heart.

Cut to three months later. Nobody has seen our new convert in church. The follow up committee calls him and encourages him to attend a Bible study, but to no avail. We label him a backslider and get ready for the next outreach event.

Our beloved child lies in her snuggly warm bed and says, “Yes, Daddy. I want to ask Jesus into my heart.” You lead her in “the prayer” and hope that it sticks. You spend the next ten years questioning if she really, really meant it. Puberty hits and the answer reveals itself. She backslides. We spend the next ten years praying that she will come to her senses.

Telling someone to ask Jesus into their hearts has a very typical result, backsliding. the Bible says that a person who is soundly saved puts his hand to the plow and does not look back because he is fit for service. In other words, a true convert cannot backslide. If a person backslides, he never slid forward in the first place. “If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation.” (II Cor.5) No backsliding there.

Brace yourself for this one: with very few if any exceptions, anyone who asked Jesus into their hearts to be saved…is not. If you asked Jesus into your heart because you were told that is what you have to do to become a Christian, you were mis-informed.
If you have ever told someone to ask Jesus into their heart (like I have), you produced a false convert. Here is why.

1. It is not in the Bible. There is not a single verse that even hints we should say a prayer inviting Jesus into our hearts. Some use Rev. 3:20. To tell us that Jesus is standing at the door of our hearts begging to come in.
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock.” There are two reasons that interpretation is wrong.
The context tells us that the door Jesus is knocking on is the door of the church, not the human heart. Jesus is not knocking to enter someone’s heart but to have fellowship with His church.
Even if the context didn’t tell us this, we would be forcing a meaning into the text (eisegesis). How do we know it is our heart he is knocking at? Why not our car door? How do we know he isn’t knocking on our foot? To suggest that he is knocking on the door of our heart is superimposing a meaning on the text that simply does not exist.
The Bible does not instruct us to ask Jesus into our heart. This alone should resolve the issue, nevertheless, here are nine more reasons.
2. Asking Jesus into your heart is a saying that makes no sense. What does it mean to ask Jesus into your heart? If I say the right incantation will He somehow enter my heart? Is it literal? Does He reside in the upper or lower ventricle? Is this a metaphysical experience? Is it figurative? If it is, what exactly does it mean? While I am certain that most adults cannot articulate its meaning, I am certain that no child can explain it. Pastor Dennis Rokser reminds
us that little children think literally and can easily be confused (or frightened) at the prospect of asking Jesus into their heart.
3. In order to be saved, a man must repent (Acts 2:38). Asking Jesus into your heart leaves out the requirement of repentance.
4. In order to be saved, a man must trust in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31).
Asking Jesus into your heart leaves out the requirement of faith.
5. The person who wrongly believes they are saved will have a false sense of security. Millions of people who sincerely, but wrongly, asked Jesus into their hearts think they are saved but struggle to feel secure. They live in doubt and fear because they do not have the Holy Spirit giving them assurance of salvation.
6. The person who asks Jesus into his heart will likely end up inoculated, bitter and backslidden. Because he did not get saved by reciting a formulaic prayer, he will grow disillusioned with Jesus, the Bible, church and fellow believers. His latter end will be worse than the first.
7. It presents God as a beggar just hoping you will let Him into your busy life. This presentation of God robs Him of His sovereignty.
8. The cause of Christ is ridiculed. Visit an atheist web-site and read the pagans who scoff, “How dare those Christians tell us how to live when they get divorced more than we do? Who are they to say homosexuals shouldn’t adopt kids when tens of thousands of orphans don’t get adopted by Christians?” Born again believers adopt kids and don’t get divorced.
People who ask Jesus into their hearts do. Jesus gets mocked when false converts give Him a bad name.
9. The cause of evangelism is hindered. While it is certainly easier to get church members by telling them to ask Jesus into their hearts, try pleading with someone to make today the day of their salvation. Get ready for a painful response. “Why should I become a Christian when I have seen so called Christians act worse than a pagan?” People who ask Jesus into their hearts give pagans an excuse for not repenting.
10. Here is the scary one. People who ask Jesus into their hearts are not saved and they will perish on the Day of Judgment. How tragic that millions of people think they are right with God when they are not. How many people who will cry out, “Lord, Lord” on judgment day will be “Christians” who asked Jesus into their hearts?
So, what must one do to be saved? Repent and trust. (Heb.6:1) The Bible makes it clear that all men must repent and place their trust in Jesus Christ. Every man does have a “God shaped hole in their hearts,” but that hole is not contentment, fulfillment and peace. Every man’s heart problem is righteousness. Instead of preaching that Jesus fulfills, we must preach that God judges and Jesus satisfies God’s judgment…if a man will repent and place his trust in Him.

If you are reading this and you asked Jesus into your heart, chances are good you had a spiritual buzz for a while, but now you struggle to read your Bible, tithe, attend church and pray. Perhaps you were told you would have contentment, purpose and a better life if you just ask Jesus into your heart. I am sorry, that was a lie.

Looking for a good church? Join the club. Church-shopping can be a long and painful
process. To shorten your search, call the pastor of the church before you visit and ask
the following questions. This might save you a lot of Sundays. If your attending a church you might want to ask your pastor these questions to see if your in a good church.

Questions that we need to ask Jeff & Mike;

1. What is man's biggest problem?
Seeker sensitive and felt-needs churches focus on man’s hurts and problems. The Bible
says that man’s biggest problem is sin.
2. What must a man do to inherit eternal life?
Repent and trust is the Biblical answer. If the word “repent” is never used, say, “Thank
you.” and keep looking.
3. How do you deliver the salvation message?
Ask the pastor to describe specifically what he says. Does he encourage people to
simply say a prayer? Does he tell people to ask Jesus into their hearts? The salvation
message should include: God’s holiness, man’s sinfulness, God’s response (hell),
God’s kindness (Jesus on the cross), man’s response (repentance and faith).
4. How hard is it to become a Christian?
The “formula” is simple, doing it is not. It is not easy to believe.
5. How often do you talk about sin, righteousness and judgment?
Balance is key. This should not be the only emphasis, but it should be a regular
emphasis.
6. How seeker sensitive is your church?
It is o.k. for a church to be “seeker aware” but seeker sensitive means that they lean
toward seekers and not the saved.
7. Who do you do church for, seekers or members?
“Both” is not acceptable. Church should be done for members and the unsaved are
welcome to attend.
8. Do you dumb down your sermons?
If he says yes, he is probably not trying to wean his members from milk to meat.
Answers like, “We try to make our sermons accessible to everyone” are sermons that
are not meaty.
9. What is your mixture of topical vs. expository preaching?
Topical preaching is fine, but if a pastor never or rarely preaches expositionally (verse
by verse), then you are going to be learning from the pastor and not God’s Word.
10. Do your sermons emphasize theology or are they relevant?
Everyone should say their sermons are relevant, what you are looking for is if they
teach theology.
11. Describe your youth programs.
If fun and games is the major (and usually first) emphasis, you have a youth program
that is trying to compete with MTV.
12. Describe your evangelism programs.
Don’t just accept, “We have an evangelism committee.” Dig. Are they serious about
saving souls?
13. What church growth model do you follow?
Hopefully they don’t have one. Churches should be reaching out to the lost, but
churches that are plugged into new church growth models tend to follow man’s modern
ideas rather than the Bible.
14. How much do you give to missions and the hungry?
Again, this reveals the heart of the church. While most churches give to missions, many
never consider the poor.
15. Do you believe the Bible contains no errors or contradictions?
No equivocation allowed here.
16. Do you believe in a literal 6 day creation?
Jesus did (Matt.19:4).
17. Do you believe in a literal hell and eternal punishment?
Jesus did (Matt.25).
19. When you distribute the Lord's Supper, do you emphasize the need to examine
yourself?
Paul did (I Cor.11:27-32).
20. Can a person who is living in a persistent lifestyle of sin inherit eternal life?
Sinners can certainly be forgiven, but practicing sinners cannot inherit eternal life (I
John 3:8,9).
21. Does your church exercise church discipline?
Paul said we should (I Cor.5).
22. Do Sunday school teachers, nursery, and youth volunteers fill out an application to
answer questions about their core beliefs, or are all volunteers accepted?
23.What are the essentials of the faith?
Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Salvation through faith alone, the inerrancy of Scripture.
24. Do you have a cross in your sanctuary?
Many remove it because they fear it will turn off seekers. Even the Mormons do not have a cross because they preach a different Jesus They should glory in the cross. The cross should be the central focus of every church.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2010 11:31AM by BraveHeart.

No phone call from Jeff Rock Barnes yet! I pray and hope Jeff wants to bring back TPCWOC back to Truth. To make it right with all the hurt people is a good first step.
TPCWOC still has links to PNBC(SOMA) where false Apostle Mike is still the President of the school. TPCWOC still has false Apostle Mikes sermons online.
TP Skagit Valley Church still has false Apostle Mike and Cyndi on there Elder page as Apostolic oversight and counsel. TP Lebanon has a link to false Apostle Mikes fake bible college also. (PNBC)(SOMA). I hope and pray that Jeff Barnes is being real and not just putting on a front so he can get back into unity with the churches of Marrysville. I hope Jeff is not just dealing with the hurt people without dealing with all the false teaching. The Ralstons need to step down from their leadership positions and all the ELDERS need to step down and be replaced. I love the TPCWOC people and pray that that their eyes will be opened to the truth and they too can begin the road to recovery. We will be here for you.

"I love the TPCWOC people and pray that that their eyes will be opened to the truth and they too can begin the road to recovery. We will be here for you."

There was a time that I wasn't sure if this was true. Through my own pain and grieving, I didn't think that I could be there for any of one. Now, my heart breaks all over again, not b/c of my own pain (God is faithful in bringing healing in His time and His way) but for what others continue to go through, and for what they are about to experience.

I can say with confidence now, that I do love you, more than you can imagine, and yes, without a doubt I am here here for you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2010 11:32PM by Brokenhearted.

I listened to Jeff's preaching from June 27, 2010 and he makes some very basic mistakes in missing the obvious points from that passage. Again Jeff is reading into the passage and placing his spin on the passage. He takes the example of peter and uses this passage to make the congregation feel guilty, to start doing more.
When Jesus says to Peter take care of my sheep, Who are his sheep? What other things have been said by Jesus about Peter? and how does that correlate and apply here?

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Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 16:17-19

This passage is about Jesus is reinstating Peter here to what he had said about him before. Yes Peter denied Jesus 3 times but lets keep the text in context Mr. Jeff Barns. Peter is reinstated to be a rock, a man who will not water down the gospel, and man who will not be like a Chameleon, a man who will lead the early church. Unlike Turning Point Church you have watered down the gospel message you have twisted the basic fundamental teachings of the bible by putting your own spin onto a text like this example. Sure Peter struggles with the vision that the Lord gave him regarding eating Pork or what he new as unclean. and Paul publicly rebuked him for that but lets save that story for another chat.

Turning Point and Mr. Jeff Barns can dress up the Sunday sermons and talk about reconciliation until the cows come home. But until they repent and renounce all these false teachings and stop covering it up!!!
They are only rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I like the analogy of a man driving buy a house and he sees a small fire in the open garage.
he quickly stops as car and forcefully bangs on the front door of the house warning all the occupants to get out of the house and get to safety.
or the man drives by and prays "dear Lord I sure hop they have insurance and everyone is OK, Amen.

The latter is what so many cults would have you believe and do.

All this may be a good start. However.....until they repent of there heresies and slander and fire the elders who showed their lack of biblical knowledge by not discerning an wrong handling of scripture, the I say the garage is still on fire. And I don't know that Jeff Barnes is trained to rightly divide the word of truth or handle scripture in the fear of God. I'm still pssed as hell! There is NO repentance. Just apologies.

I listened to Pastor Jeff's sermon from last Sunday, I am skeptically optimistic that perhaps change at TPC is coming. No, we didn't get a telephone call, and that is okay. I forgave Jeff a long time ago for the hurt and disappointment he caused me, and which others at TPC caused my family. I am leaving this in the Lord's hands, Jesus sits on the Mercy Seat in heaven and it is for him to forgive those who called themselves shepherds and who did not feed or care for the Lord's flock.

If Pastor Jeff is sincere about reconciliation then another "special" meeting needs to be called where each and every person who attended the last meeting are invited to hear the public apology by the Elders and Staff of TPC to a Godly woman whose name and reputation they drug through the worst kind of mud imaginable. Then and only then you can start mending fences and reaching out in reconciliation to those who have left TPC over the last couple of years. Fence mending needs to start with a public apology to a Sister in Christ we all love and respect. If the elders and staff at TPC are not willing to start there, then they really are not interested in reconciliation.

God loves those who act in humility to right the wrongs they have done to others. However a prideful man will not act with humility and publicly admit they unjustly and unfairly harmed another. I think I will wait to see if the staff and elders at TPC act with humility or continue their prideful ways to see if Pastor Jeff is sincere in what he said last Sunday morning.

Daughter of Dorcas

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Daughter of Dorcas
I listened to Pastor Jeff's sermon from last Sunday, I am skeptically optimistic that perhaps change at TPC is coming. No, we didn't get a telephone call, and that is okay. I forgave Jeff a long time ago for the hurt and disappointment he caused me, and which others at TPC caused my family. I am leaving this in the Lord's hands, Jesus sits on the Mercy Seat in heaven and it is for him to forgive those who called themselves shepherds and who did not feed or care for the Lord's flock.

If Pastor Jeff is sincere about reconciliation then another "special" meeting needs to be called where each and every person who attended the last meeting are invited to hear the public apology by the Elders and Staff of TPC to a Godly woman whose name and reputation they drug through the worst kind of mud imaginable. Then and only then you can start mending fences and reaching out in reconciliation to those who have left TPC over the last couple of years. Fence mending needs to start with a public apology to a Sister in Christ we all love and respect. If the elders and staff at TPC are not willing to start there, then they really are not interested in reconciliation.

God loves those who act in humility to right the wrongs they have done to others. However a prideful man will not act with humility and publicly admit they unjustly and unfairly harmed another. I think I will wait to see if the staff and elders at TPC act with humility or continue their prideful ways to see if Pastor Jeff is sincere in what he said last Sunday morning.

Daughter of Dorcas

wow D O D I was just discussing reconcilliation and repentence with my wife as we were driving home tonight and said the exact same thing. that since they publicly convicted someone without a trial or a chance to defend themselves, and tried to ruin their reputation. They should publicly set the matter straight, holding a meeting confessing the exact nature of their wrongs.