Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
GodsWarrior
()
Date: March 14, 2009 09:27AM
Quote
rrmoderator
GodsWarrior:
I am skeptical as to the purpose of you posting here.
I suspect you are here not so much to discuss critical questions about TP, but rather to question those that have criticized TP here.
Frankly, you come across as an apologist.
What do you think TP does wrong?
What critical questions do you have about TP and its leadership?
The purpose of my posting is I have questions and I am interested in the questions of others.
Am I an apologist because I said I love the church and leadership? What did I apologize for? I support them and that is it.
What do I think TP does wrong?
I think TP hurts people and does not do the greatest job of acknowledging it and asking for forgiveness.
I also am not crazy about having a tithing message at the end of every service.
I think that the leadership does not communicate openly with "everyone" in the church.
I think that Pastor Jackie leaving and it not being discussed is not a good thing.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
GodsWarrior
()
Date: March 14, 2009 09:39AM
NO I could not.Quote
Northwest
I think it is great that God's warrior is posting here and want to welcome you.
Here is something I would like you to consider.
Do you recognize that the word of faith teaching can or has been destructive at other churches? (Maybe not at TP)
If you do then have you heard any pastor at turningpoint church discuss the possible problems that can come out of this teaching?
Some of the prosperity teaching makes sense however it needs to be taught with balance and warnings against getting out of hand with it.
I have found that the basis of the teaching seems to be aimed at controlling God. For example: If I say this verse 10 times every day God will bless me. Or if I give this much then God must bless me. When you look back to all of the idols that Israelites were tempted to worship, all of them were focused around a God they could control. For example sacrificing your child to cause their god to bless the crops. We should recognize that we are not immune to trying to control God.
You should give because you love God. Period. There should be nothing expected in return and when God blesses us it is not the result of us giving but his grace. Also God doest have to heal anyone. He owes us nothing and can choose to heal whoever he wants whenever. In a book about someone with a massive healing ministry there was a story of a non Christian man who walked into the meeting and was missing an eye. As soon as he entered his fake eye fell and was smashed onto the ground and he had a new eye. He didn't become a Christian. God chose to heal this man and didn't put any condition on it to earn that healing or maintain it. it was only by Gods grace.
The biggest issue I have with turning point teaching word of faith is that mike is not accountable to anyone. There is no one who can help show him some of the destructive parts of this teaching. You can see that this is true because they probably are not even aware of how that the word of faith teaching can be taken to an extreme and cause massive hurt to families.
The same problem is also evident in the discipleship teaching. There has never been one sermon discussing the sheparding movement and how discipleship can be taken to an extreme. Even if the pastor doesn't intend these teachings to go to far if they don't intentionally preach to stop it then they are allowing it to happen.
Many pages back M&M summed up the problem in how mike first brought up the word of faith teaching on healing. He taught how that healing and salvation were all bought for us when Christ died and we have access to them immediately and we are in sin if we are not healed. Mike never told anyone before he taught this and no one had the authority to tell him that it is full of crap or require him to at least look into and discuss why people disagree with this teaching to warn people from taking it out of hand.
Also- do you think mike is accountable?
Have they announced that jackie has resigned and no longer attends turningpoint to the congregation? No
Should her years of service be recognized? YESIf they left over a minor issues about mikes accountablity (as I was told in a meeting) why wouldn't they have a a service to honor her?I would love to know.
Do you know how the pastors are paid? do they get money for being a pastor, teaching soma, owning a buisness and every time they speak somewhere as others have accused them on this website?Don't know all of it. Pastor yes, SOMA yes, I would hope they get paid for an outside business.
Would you be comfortable asking a pastor these questions and then telling a new attendee the answers?Absolutely
Also do you think you could expian the accountability system to anyone outside of your church?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
tell the truth
()
Date: March 14, 2009 12:08PM
If we are waiting for the people of TPC to rise up and begin questioning when it has always been considered a sin to do so ie not submitting to the leadership that God has covered you with, it may not happen soon. A cultish group takes many years to form and at the core is a group of people that learn persuasive tactics, not even knowing they are tactics, to bring vulnerable people in and keep them in. I can only imagine what it must feel like to be accepted into the "in" group like Spencer, and Stephanie and Jesse and all the worship warriors not to mention all the groupies of the cultish clicques. It must feel really good to be so righteous and have a large audience in which to be holy in front of. I know that must sound critical, but I think it is important to identify for just a moment what it must be like for the people at turning point. To feel such power when in life perhaps you were a dork or not popular and now to have truly arrived must be a powerful tonic. I think there will be much resistance to believe the truth or even see a thread of truth. Mike is now the victim and is being persecuted because he is god's chosen apostle. It is now all about him. We will see the true medle of this man because the higher you go, the farther you have to fall and you must have good skills to survive something like that. It will only work for him to be a victim for so long. He will eventually become annoying and strike out at those closest to him by being rude and victimizing those around him as he feels he is being victimized. He believes he should be honored and worshiped and gifted by his people with money and things. This is spiritually pathalogical. He will eventually fall. He will lose much. It will happen, though perhaps not quickly. As I referenced above it took a long time for TPC to become a mini mega church and it may take as long to dissemble. Once you pose the suggestion into the minds eye of those who cannot yet see, they will begin to receive vision. The Holy Spirit is powerful. They will wake up one day and see Mike and the leaders at TPC in the truth of the Spirit of God. It is my prayer, that long before that happens, Mike repents and tells the truth about his marriage and the years of unhappiness, about his false apostleship and walks the other way. The other way means that he is nothing and God is everything. I once heard him in a service talk about his mustache and gotee. He said that he had much pride over his facial hair and God told him to cut if off. So he shaved and didn't have one for a year. He needs to return to the roots of reality that he has a perchant to become grandiose and is so self focused right now, he cannot see truth. I think that he is a really sweet person and used to be humble. But the success of TPC ministries has truly gone to his head. He needs to thank God for the gift TPC has been in the lives of many, and repent for the direction he has taken and is leading these lambs to.
God, lift the veil of deception that covers his eyes as thick as lambs wool. God, you love him as much as you love anyone, and I pray Lord that your love will instruct and redeem your lost child. I pray for Cyndi God that you would return her to her humble beginnings. God, that you would lift the veil over the body of TPC so that the work that has been done to bring others to your kingdom may continue without the sickness that hangs heavy over this church. God, you are omnipotent and almighty and good and loving and are a jealous God. That we would all fall and worship you and only you is as it should be and is good for us stuck in these human bodies. God that we would all see the need to pray for the leaders of TPC with love and give them mercy. God that you would heal those so hurt by this mere man and turn all our eyes upon you.
God, lift the veil of deception that covers his eyes as thick as lambs wool. God, you love him as much as you love anyone, and I pray Lord that your love will instruct and redeem your lost child. I pray for Cyndi God that you would return her to her humble beginnings. God, that you would lift the veil over the body of TPC so that the work that has been done to bring others to your kingdom may continue without the sickness that hangs heavy over this church. God, you are omnipotent and almighty and good and loving and are a jealous God. That we would all fall and worship you and only you is as it should be and is good for us stuck in these human bodies. God that we would all see the need to pray for the leaders of TPC with love and give them mercy. God that you would heal those so hurt by this mere man and turn all our eyes upon you.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: March 14, 2009 03:33PM
TPWOC Sunday March 8th sermon by Pastor Mike is now on TPWOC web site : Recession Proof your Profession : How many times does Pastor Mike use the word prosper? I came up with 40 times all together. 32 times Pastor Mike use the word prosper, 2 times he makes the TP people say the word prosper and 6 times he used the word prosperity. They say if you say it enough people will believe anything! Pastor Mike also likes to say: As a man thinks in his heart so is he. I believe in his sermon Pastor Mike thinks in his heart that he is Joseph of the old testament and everything he touches prospers and that he is going to be famous because of his enemies and the people on this Forum are his enemies. Pastor Mike also said that the greatest job in the world is being a greeter at Walmart. That's funny I don't remember Pastor Mike being much of a greeter at TPWOC. This is how Pastor Mike wants to recession proof your profession! I do not want to sound negative but want to point out how far Pastor Mike has wandered from the pure word of God. There is so much more then to prosper financially! There is a secret found in the Bible that Pastor Mike has forgotten: Philippians 4:11-13 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am. I know how to get along with humble means, and also know how to live in prosperity, in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. I can do all things through Him who strengthens me! Pastor Mike needs to learn the secret! This prosper stuff is really going to his head!
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Mville04
()
Date: March 14, 2009 07:07PM
Just a quick question about those not wanting to post here. Why is it even an issue? What could be the harm in that? I have left myself wide open to ridicule for the videos I've made but have no problem with coming here. I know that I will not be harmed. So why? I just don't understand.
If this was off topic I am sorry; that was all I wanted to say.
If this was off topic I am sorry; that was all I wanted to say.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: March 14, 2009 08:11PM
GodsWarrior
The issue that keeps jumping out at me is the competitive spirit that Mikes teaching is breading.
A false apostle is masterful at presenting a teaching that, on the surface sounds biblical 90% but has 10% false teaching mixed into it.
Mikes teachings are flawed!
I listened to Mike's sermon from last Sunday, I listened to him demonize the people who are posting and questioning what is being taught at turning point church. He mocked the people here by saying 'they are saying that we teach the apostolic ministry!... well yes! we do!...we believe in the 5 fold ministry!.... then he quoted some of Timothy 'to some he gave pastors, teachers, evangelist, prophets and apostles'....he said 'when we go out and do ministry we go out as an apostolic ministry'....
But here is the the main point!!!!!! Mike no one here on the blog has ever criticized the church from going out and doing ministry in an apostolic manner.
Do you see people how Mike is masterful at mixing words?
We are calling Mike you out as a false Apostle that he is claiming to be an apostle! and some how he as convinced a enough people on staff to elevate him to that level of position. You see Mike embraces the many false teaching from Tony Cunningham and apparently the prosperity movement.
He is the wolf in sheep's clothing!!!!
The issue that keeps jumping out at me is the competitive spirit that Mikes teaching is breading.
A false apostle is masterful at presenting a teaching that, on the surface sounds biblical 90% but has 10% false teaching mixed into it.
Mikes teachings are flawed!
I listened to Mike's sermon from last Sunday, I listened to him demonize the people who are posting and questioning what is being taught at turning point church. He mocked the people here by saying 'they are saying that we teach the apostolic ministry!... well yes! we do!...we believe in the 5 fold ministry!.... then he quoted some of Timothy 'to some he gave pastors, teachers, evangelist, prophets and apostles'....he said 'when we go out and do ministry we go out as an apostolic ministry'....
But here is the the main point!!!!!! Mike no one here on the blog has ever criticized the church from going out and doing ministry in an apostolic manner.
Do you see people how Mike is masterful at mixing words?
We are calling Mike you out as a false Apostle that he is claiming to be an apostle! and some how he as convinced a enough people on staff to elevate him to that level of position. You see Mike embraces the many false teaching from Tony Cunningham and apparently the prosperity movement.
He is the wolf in sheep's clothing!!!!
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: March 14, 2009 08:40PM
Ok Mike . You can stand up on stage and slander the people who are pointing out and bringing to the attention of your elders and followers, the false theologies that you are promoting through your pseudo-ministry. I say pseudo-ministry because you have promoted false teachings that contradict the gospel of Jesus Christ! Your teachings carry a false spirit! You can use your position of being a supposed pastor, a hypothetical apostle and ridicule anyone questioning what you are teaching. You can do that, only because of your assumed position of authority! Standing up on the stage preaching your spin on what you think is right! because you’re not accountable to anyone!!!
Are you afraid to have a two way conversation? It is only a one way conversation for you! Your downloading your info into your followers hopping to form a lock-step movement! that is how you do discipleship and that is how you have relationships.
I listened to your service from last Sunday, I listened to you Mike demonize the people who are posting and questioning what is being taught at turning point church. Mike you mocked the people here by saying 'they are saying that we teach the apostolic ministry!... well yes!..... we do!.... we believe in the 5 fold ministry!.... then you quoted some of Timothy 'to some he gave pastors, teachers, evangelist, prophets and apostles'....you said 'when we go out and do ministry we go out as an apostolic ministry'....
But here is the main point Mike no one here on the blog has ever criticized the church from going out and doing ministry in an apostolic manner.
People do you see how he is masterful at mixing words?
We are calling you out Mike, calling you out as a False Apostle!! and some how he as convinced a enough people on staff to elevate him to that level of position. You see Mike you embrace the many false teaching from Tony Cunningham and apparently the prosperity movement. This only promotes a spirit of competition of "who will be the greatest disciple of all"
I know the truth hurts but Mike your hurting all who follow you!
You Don’t have the manhood to address these questions that people have asked publicly.
You stand up there demonizing the ones who have escaped the clutches of your false teachings.
And Mike, you can do that because you’re not accountable to anyone!!!
BraveHeart
Are you afraid to have a two way conversation? It is only a one way conversation for you! Your downloading your info into your followers hopping to form a lock-step movement! that is how you do discipleship and that is how you have relationships.
I listened to your service from last Sunday, I listened to you Mike demonize the people who are posting and questioning what is being taught at turning point church. Mike you mocked the people here by saying 'they are saying that we teach the apostolic ministry!... well yes!..... we do!.... we believe in the 5 fold ministry!.... then you quoted some of Timothy 'to some he gave pastors, teachers, evangelist, prophets and apostles'....you said 'when we go out and do ministry we go out as an apostolic ministry'....
But here is the main point Mike no one here on the blog has ever criticized the church from going out and doing ministry in an apostolic manner.
People do you see how he is masterful at mixing words?
We are calling you out Mike, calling you out as a False Apostle!! and some how he as convinced a enough people on staff to elevate him to that level of position. You see Mike you embrace the many false teaching from Tony Cunningham and apparently the prosperity movement. This only promotes a spirit of competition of "who will be the greatest disciple of all"
I know the truth hurts but Mike your hurting all who follow you!
You Don’t have the manhood to address these questions that people have asked publicly.
You stand up there demonizing the ones who have escaped the clutches of your false teachings.
And Mike, you can do that because you’re not accountable to anyone!!!
BraveHeart
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
M&M
()
Date: March 14, 2009 10:09PM
God's Warrior
As far as I can see your posts are very good. I appreciate your honesty and being forthcoming, in particular to Northwest's questions.
To me the ideal would be to have people from TP who genuinely love the church and are concerned that it is being slandered give their input.
I have asked several times for correction if I have mistated or misunderstood claims I have made.
I heard a political writer just the other day say we needed
Transparency
Accountability
Openess
In government, how much more in church?
As you get the answers to the questions Northwest asks feel free to correct us and particularly me.
If I was Mike or one of the SOMA teachers I would use this forum in the classroom. I would deal openly with the questions, apologize when necessary, and refute misunderstandings. I would at every turn be open, accountable and transparent. That is if I had nothing I was embarrassed about, nothing to hide, and if there were clear mistatements of fact.
As far as I can see your posts are very good. I appreciate your honesty and being forthcoming, in particular to Northwest's questions.
To me the ideal would be to have people from TP who genuinely love the church and are concerned that it is being slandered give their input.
I have asked several times for correction if I have mistated or misunderstood claims I have made.
I heard a political writer just the other day say we needed
Transparency
Accountability
Openess
In government, how much more in church?
As you get the answers to the questions Northwest asks feel free to correct us and particularly me.
If I was Mike or one of the SOMA teachers I would use this forum in the classroom. I would deal openly with the questions, apologize when necessary, and refute misunderstandings. I would at every turn be open, accountable and transparent. That is if I had nothing I was embarrassed about, nothing to hide, and if there were clear mistatements of fact.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Veilednomore
()
Date: March 15, 2009 01:54AM
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
( JOSHUA 24:15)
Hello people of the forum;
This is my introduction post.
I have been taking my time prior to posting as I wanted to be fully informed as to what the intent of this board was. I also wanted time to research some of the accusations and beliefs of the posters. I am confident of the overall intent of this forum. For the most part people stay focused on point and have a heart for those at TPCWOC and/or RLC.
My story:
I am a former TPCWOC. I was there for over half of the life of TPCWOC. I am a radicaly changed, sold out man of God due directly to the "early" ministry of Mike and Cyndi Villamor. I feel that for the past 4-5 years their interpretation of theology/doctrine has become skewed. I was very involved in ministry throughout my history with TPC/TPCWOC. But due to the fact that I am not nor will I ever be a yes man to any "man" I have been slowly but surely pushed out of the inner circle/hierarchy. As a man I cry for the man of God who has fallen to such deception. Within TPC there is no place for one to ask the true and hard questions. If you do you are called "devisive", or "you have a spirit of pride" you have an attitude of entitlement" these tactics as are very effective if you want to surround yourself with unquestioning support.
Due to affect that the ministry has had in our lives we stayed far longer than perhaps we should have. We spent many long hours on our faces interceding for the truth to be revealed. That leadership would turn, confess, repent and we could move on. Unfortunately that did not happen. Now we have a "man" who has elevated himself to accountable only to God. Ooops I forgot he is accountable to his wife (Pastor Cyndi) but wait what about headship of the man in the household. Ok he is accountable only to God. We could no longer stand under this departation from the word and what it lays out for authority.
No "man" is strong enough or pure enough to stand in the place of great authority without an accountability of some sort. The temptation is to great. Show me any man of God within the word who did it without falling. David? Moses? Solomon? Mike is nowhere near the level of these great men of God.
I have much more to say and issue to address. I hope and pray that we can stay focused as a group to uphold the tennants of Gods word as we deal with a very difficult situation. Some of us have been cut to the very soul. Some of us have had minor bruises. We also have those comming in to see "what this is all about". We need to treat each and every person with the love and and respect of Christ our Lord. We need to exemplify Phillipians 1:1-12 in all that we do here or are message will be lost in the anger and hurt we express.
Philippians 1
1Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus,
To all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers[a] and deacons:
2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanksgiving and Prayer
3I thank my God every time I remember you. 4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
7It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God's grace with me. 8God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus.
9And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, 11filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.
Paul's Chains Advance the Gospel
12Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel.
( JOSHUA 24:15)
Hello people of the forum;
This is my introduction post.
I have been taking my time prior to posting as I wanted to be fully informed as to what the intent of this board was. I also wanted time to research some of the accusations and beliefs of the posters. I am confident of the overall intent of this forum. For the most part people stay focused on point and have a heart for those at TPCWOC and/or RLC.
My story:
I am a former TPCWOC. I was there for over half of the life of TPCWOC. I am a radicaly changed, sold out man of God due directly to the "early" ministry of Mike and Cyndi Villamor. I feel that for the past 4-5 years their interpretation of theology/doctrine has become skewed. I was very involved in ministry throughout my history with TPC/TPCWOC. But due to the fact that I am not nor will I ever be a yes man to any "man" I have been slowly but surely pushed out of the inner circle/hierarchy. As a man I cry for the man of God who has fallen to such deception. Within TPC there is no place for one to ask the true and hard questions. If you do you are called "devisive", or "you have a spirit of pride" you have an attitude of entitlement" these tactics as are very effective if you want to surround yourself with unquestioning support.
Due to affect that the ministry has had in our lives we stayed far longer than perhaps we should have. We spent many long hours on our faces interceding for the truth to be revealed. That leadership would turn, confess, repent and we could move on. Unfortunately that did not happen. Now we have a "man" who has elevated himself to accountable only to God. Ooops I forgot he is accountable to his wife (Pastor Cyndi) but wait what about headship of the man in the household. Ok he is accountable only to God. We could no longer stand under this departation from the word and what it lays out for authority.
No "man" is strong enough or pure enough to stand in the place of great authority without an accountability of some sort. The temptation is to great. Show me any man of God within the word who did it without falling. David? Moses? Solomon? Mike is nowhere near the level of these great men of God.
I have much more to say and issue to address. I hope and pray that we can stay focused as a group to uphold the tennants of Gods word as we deal with a very difficult situation. Some of us have been cut to the very soul. Some of us have had minor bruises. We also have those comming in to see "what this is all about". We need to treat each and every person with the love and and respect of Christ our Lord. We need to exemplify Phillipians 1:1-12 in all that we do here or are message will be lost in the anger and hurt we express.
Philippians 1
1Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus,
To all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers[a] and deacons:
2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanksgiving and Prayer
3I thank my God every time I remember you. 4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
7It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God's grace with me. 8God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus.
9And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, 11filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.
Paul's Chains Advance the Gospel
12Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Brokenhearted
()
Date: March 15, 2009 08:15AM
Braveheart~
Thank you for posting this, and pointing out the falesy in Pastor Mike's teaching. You are right, we are NOT opposed to the fivefold ministry. We are opposed to the "apostle" having the ulitimate authority. We are opposed to the teachings that are NOT scripturally supported.
I think that you make a good point about the info coming from the pulpit, where Mike preaches, but there is not any opportunity for questions or back and forth dialog about these issues.
I didn't listen to the message yet, but I bet it's safe to assume that Mike did not go a little further Timothy where Paul warns the church about following false prophets?
Did he give the full view of the fivefold ministry, or just the little section that he uses to support himself, and try to make the rest of us look foolish?
Do people really believe that Pastor Jackie would oppose the church going out and doing ministry? B/c if I understand you, Braveheart, that's exactly what he just told the body!
Thank you for posting this, and pointing out the falesy in Pastor Mike's teaching. You are right, we are NOT opposed to the fivefold ministry. We are opposed to the "apostle" having the ulitimate authority. We are opposed to the teachings that are NOT scripturally supported.
I think that you make a good point about the info coming from the pulpit, where Mike preaches, but there is not any opportunity for questions or back and forth dialog about these issues.
I didn't listen to the message yet, but I bet it's safe to assume that Mike did not go a little further Timothy where Paul warns the church about following false prophets?
Did he give the full view of the fivefold ministry, or just the little section that he uses to support himself, and try to make the rest of us look foolish?
Do people really believe that Pastor Jackie would oppose the church going out and doing ministry? B/c if I understand you, Braveheart, that's exactly what he just told the body!
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