Earlier I gave a satirical accounting of the so called church planting journey of the apostle Mike. Since that posting there have been some who point out that a couple of those churches were not claimed by Mike as plants.

The whole point of the previous post related to those who defend Mike's "apostleship" by saying, "look at all the churches he's planted. That is proof of his role as apostle".

Really? Did he actually plant those churches? Or did he just give his "blessing"? There is a big difference. The evidence of Mike's apostleship does not hold up under the light of Truth. What ever arguments that are posed by the apologists for Mike quickly crumble when you start to examine their claims in light of Truth.


I, too, find my heart aching by the news articles and the resulting affects. It is ironic that the two articles were not a result of anyone posting here and calling the paper to complain, but were brought about by the actions of TPC interns overstepping their bounds and usurping the role of a parent in the life of an 11 year old. When the parent went to meet the people responsible how did those people respond? Apparently in such a way as to cause the parent to feel like she had no choice but to go to the school, papers, and city authorities.

Brokenhearted you bring the light of Truth to this situation. Thank you!

I too, have noticed the irony. The problems that TPC is facing have nothing to do with this forum, and to my knowledge, a number of those leaving, or who have left are unaware that this forum even exists. In fact, *I* didn't know about this place until after I had already decided to leave TPC myself.

I have to ask you all a question.....
When you look at the Turning Point Web site What do you see????






It is all about Mike and Cindi

I didn't find your video helpful at all.. Sorry, but it is not exactly all facts. I was hurt by TP but I don't feel that posting false videos about them is going to make it any better.. What is so wrong with a 19 year old inviting an 11 year old to youth group? She wasn't inviting her to a party... I was 14 when I first went to TP and never had to have my parents permission.. I just don't see it being that different from 3 years.. Also, why couldn't the girl just ask her parents?! Why would the interns have to ask permission? It is kinda the child's job, not the church.. The whole article is kind of upsetting.. but nice it didn't come from anyone's posts on here.. or maybe there should be one....

Quote
Mville04
Well; I did it again. For anyone here that is negatively effeted by my latest video - I am truely sorry. This video was created by simple watching all the youth video from TPC and receiving an unbiassed impression.

The title came last.

[www.youtube.com]

[
Brokenhearted]I too, have noticed the irony. The problems that TPC is facing have nothing to do with this forum, and to my knowledge, a number of those leaving, or who have left are unaware that this forum even exists. In fact, *I* didn't know about this place until after I had already decided to leave TPC myself.[/quote]

I earlier stated in this forum that the battle belongs to the Lord. Natural consequences abound in life, but at times they don't happen in the time frame I would like to see. I have learned that when i interfere with what i think is right, or righteous, God does not move. God's love is higher than the mountians and he is a mighty warrior. God will bring justice to this situation, but it may not be in the full measure that this folly calls for. Justice's final call will be on judgment day. I take comfort in the fact that Jesus Christ is my righteousness, in fact, is my only righteousness. I am no better or any less or more a sinner than the leaders at turning point or the people who blindly follow. The difference is that I know I am a sinner and that I certainly do not have the makings of an Apostle if there is any such thing anymore. It is only through Christ that I have any value.

I would like to add to what TTT just said. I did not just become offended, angry or bitter one day and started to post here. I love God. I love Turning Point and I love the people there.

What changed for me was that people that love me on the outside of the church were noticing me change over time. I became more and more internally focused. I became so involved in activities that I excluded everyone on the outside who was important to me. I began to lose my joy. The goals and dreams I had for my life soon disappeared and I just wanted to follow directionless. People who loved me could tell something was wrong.

I can honestly say that I never offended anyone at TPC and no one there has ever offended me. But little by little I started noticing contradictions. One year we were supposed to give everything away, the next we were all supposed to all be millionaires. One year the vision was one thing, the next a completely other. I became confused. Lost. My mind kept on telling me something was wrong, but inside I just wanted to follow, belong. It somehow seemed easy to just go along. Any questioning inside and I thought I must be crazy or just rebellious. I thought I was the only one running these questions through my head.

Then, after a year of shoving down the doubts I started to pray for truth. As a result of that prayer God showed me truth. People began to speak to me who loved me. I found a book one day randomly and bought it. It just happened to be on "The Word of Faith Movement." Then, after praying, I accidently found this site while trying to look for the TPC website.

I decided to read it and thought - these people have the exact same questions I had been having, no way. They even went so far to call TPC a cult.

I read up on the occult and found way to many similarities. It still took months to really grasp that people that I love could be so "Off". I even became defensive of TPC when anyone spoke bad about it. Defensive and protective. After all, it was my church. But in the end, truth could not lie. What was is what was and either I could go on believing my fairy tale or grasp the hard reality that I was in a spiritually abusive atmosphere.

I still struggle a lot. It is hard to realize that everything I had believed contradicts and even offends God. But I know God won't leave me. He loves me. And in the end, God will bring justice. No one on this site has to.

Thank you Painful Journey,

What you have written summarizes so much of what many of us have felt.

I just want to take this time to thank all of you who have written. I think the combination of thoughtful teaching, heartfelt experience, and even humor and random thoughts have made this a treasure. When I went through a church experience like this 30 years ago we didn't have anything like this to get input. We were isolated with our doubts.

It wasn't until disaster struck that the spell was broken and we were left to search our hearts.

Thanks all of you

Quote
Painfuljourney
I would like to add to what TTT just said. I did not just become offended, angry or bitter one day and started to post here. I love God. I love Turning Point and I love the people there.

What changed for me was that people that love me on the outside of the church were noticing me change over time. I became more and more internally focused. I became so involved in activities that I excluded everyone on the outside who was important to me. I began to lose my joy. The goals and dreams I had for my life soon disappeared and I just wanted to follow directionless. People who loved me could tell something was wrong.

I can honestly say that I never offended anyone at TPC and no one there has ever offended me. But little by little I started noticing contradictions. One year we were supposed to give everything away, the next we were all supposed to all be millionaires. One year the vision was one thing, the next a completely other. I became confused. Lost. My mind kept on telling me something was wrong, but inside I just wanted to follow, belong. It somehow seemed easy to just go along. Any questioning inside and I thought I must be crazy or just rebellious. I thought I was the only one running these questions through my head.

Then, after a year of shoving down the doubts I started to pray for truth. As a result of that prayer God showed me truth. People began to speak to me who loved me. I found a book one day randomly and bought it. It just happened to be on "The Word of Faith Movement." Then, after praying, I accidently found this site while trying to look for the TPC website.

I decided to read it and thought - these people have the exact same questions I had been having, no way. They even went so far to call TPC a cult.

I read up on the occult and found way to many similarities. It still took months to really grasp that people that I love could be so "Off". I even became defensive of TPC when anyone spoke bad about it. Defensive and protective. After all, it was my church. But in the end, truth could not lie. What was is what was and either I could go on believing my fairy tale or grasp the hard reality that I was in a spiritually abusive atmosphere.

I still struggle a lot. It is hard to realize that everything I had believed contradicts and even offends God. But I know God won't leave me. He loves me. And in the end, God will bring justice. No one on this site has to.

TPWOC Last Sunday's sermon by Pastor Mike on: Recession Proof Your Profession: Is now back up on there web site! How many times does Pastor Mike use the word prosper!

Quote
buddy
TPWOC Last Sunday's sermon by Pastor Mike on: Recession Proof Your Profession: Is now back up on there web site! How many times does Pastor Mike use the word prosper!

I am not sure I understand why believing that God wants me to prosper is a bad thing. If God loves me and I belong to him why would he not bless me and want me to prosper?
I like to think that when I am seeking him I am rewarded. Does it not say in the Bible to ask and things will be given to you?