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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: BraveHeart ()
Date: March 05, 2009 03:15PM

In the last 24 hours there has been over 750 views to this blog
Yes... People are reading!

I would encourage the folks who are reading to keep on reading and asking questions.
Some of you who are one reading, I urge you to log on with the anonymous name pick your favorite cartoon character and start asking some questions or sharing your observations. This way you can keep working at the church or be on the worship team and at the same time engage in good conversations asking question and sharing experiences and not compromise your job or real identity in SOMA.

Lets debate the issues.

remember "Iron Sharpens Iron"

BraveHeart

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Mville04 ()
Date: March 05, 2009 06:39PM

Quote
Forgiveness_101
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Mville04
Hello to all of you here and especially those who are neighbors in Marysville.
I am the one who posted the “Cult” videos about TPC. I have also thought about removing them on several occasions since they were in my mind rather abusive in their own right. However, each time I was about to, I would then be given another piece of information that validated the videos or validated what I considered their necessity. I felt that a counter point to TPC spiritual mapping and spiritual assaults was needed as a flint to start a fire. The fire is burning now. I take no satisfaction in this because people are still afraid, angry, hurt by the church and in some respect by my videos. It is still obvious that Mike does not have regard for the Christian community here. His plan is the one that matters most to him. He is what matters most. It’s as if he is grabbing at any balloon to give him rise without knowing where it is going to.
Now, after the new SOMA video was released and posted on You Tube it is apparent that the marching orders for the flock have strengthened. That, with other new information tempts me to create a new video. I am not sure that this is the right course.
I am wondering if the dividing rod between us is so much the church or I.
Some input would be welcome.

A piece of information; I know that the Everett Herald will be interviewing several people about TPC today. A fire is burning.


Mville04


Hey Mville04, welcome to the forum. I looked over the videos and don't quite know what you were trying to accomplish, is it to help those who don't know about TPC? Or is it to help those indoctrinated in TPC?

Who are you trying to reach, cause i understood what you were saying but was still searching for more clear contextual information, some of what you took was out of context ie: Serve Day is a volunteer project, you made it looked like forced labor.
Anyway just some thoughts...
Forgiveness_101

Both, actually. The fervor of TPC was the first flag I saw. Being welcomed into a new church is one thing but the instant overwhelming love and acceptance by TPC seemed overtly cultist. This reflected in their videos as did the amount of lethargic compliance to a separatist view from Christian scripture. Knowing how the young has been targeted with the advent of spiritual mapping I felt that Christian families not associated with TPC could be seeing their children leaving the family church for the instant gratification TPC offered. So in one way I was targeting the community with the videos. Also, those who may have just begun going to TPC may see it and begin to question. I would like to think that some of you may have done this as well.

Yes, I agree about the volunteer day and that should have been removed. I think the only reason I left it in was that Mike’s authority extended beyond the elders (as in reported that the lord gave them 50 days to build the church) and the pressure was imposed on all. This first video was supposed to be hype. I meant for it to be. A shock. A wake up call. The “slave labor” thing was over the top but it does represent the hold Mike has on all within the church. Because what’s the difference if staff do not feel free to question or debate or challenge? What is a slave if not this?

I am not a radical type of person. I do, however, feel the need to help those in the community where I can. This is something that was worrisome and I just wanted to offer some helpful information in a way that would cause possible insight and questioning.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Brokenhearted ()
Date: March 05, 2009 10:56PM

I saw that someone on facebook had posted this link. I thought that some of the people here might be interested. I would encourage you to read the whole article, but I will also post a a small snipit of the atricle that I found to be of significance, given the current climate at TP and the general Marysville area right now.


[www.facebook.com]

...................

Paul’s writings reflect that he knew he had no power to make anyone do anything. When Paul commanded the Corinthian Church to expel a brother for an incestuous relationship, it was up to the church to decide whether they would obey him. [21] An apostle’s ability to accomplish things with others depends on his ability to influence them. The apostle is not the ultimate authority, and he is not to lord or have dominion over others.

...................

Looking to Jesus, as the chief apostle, [27] we see that he never accomplished anything in this hierarchical way. Rather, he left us the example of a servant leader, one willing to wash the feet of all he served. None of the other ministries are required to bow to or relinquish their authority to the apostle. The apostle is present to serve the others, and all the ministries function in relative submission to each other, not on the basis of positional authority, but to the degree that they perceive God at work in each other. Any ministry that submits to the apostle does so only insofar as they believe that what the apostle says lines up with God working in him.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: outreach ()
Date: March 06, 2009 12:07AM

Quote
Mville04
Quote
Forgiveness_101
Quote
Mville04
Hello to all of you here and especially those who are neighbors in Marysville.
I am the one who posted the “Cult” videos about TPC. I have also thought about removing them on several occasions since they were in my mind rather abusive in their own right. However, each time I was about to, I would then be given another piece of information that validated the videos or validated what I considered their necessity. I felt that a counter point to TPC spiritual mapping and spiritual assaults was needed as a flint to start a fire. The fire is burning now. I take no satisfaction in this because people are still afraid, angry, hurt by the church and in some respect by my videos. It is still obvious that Mike does not have regard for the Christian community here. His plan is the one that matters most to him. He is what matters most. It’s as if he is grabbing at any balloon to give him rise without knowing where it is going to.
Now, after the new SOMA video was released and posted on You Tube it is apparent that the marching orders for the flock have strengthened. That, with other new information tempts me to create a new video. I am not sure that this is the right course.
I am wondering if the dividing rod between us is so much the church or I.
Some input would be welcome.

A piece of information; I know that the Everett Herald will be interviewing several people about TPC today. A fire is burning.


Mville04


Hey Mville04, welcome to the forum. I looked over the videos and don't quite know what you were trying to accomplish, is it to help those who don't know about TPC? Or is it to help those indoctrinated in TPC?

Who are you trying to reach, cause i understood what you were saying but was still searching for more clear contextual information, some of what you took was out of context ie: Serve Day is a volunteer project, you made it looked like forced labor.
Anyway just some thoughts...
Forgiveness_101

Both, actually. The fervor of TPC was the first flag I saw. Being welcomed into a new church is one thing but the instant overwhelming love and acceptance by TPC seemed overtly cultist. This reflected in their videos as did the amount of lethargic compliance to a separatist view from Christian scripture. Knowing how the young has been targeted with the advent of spiritual mapping I felt that Christian families not associated with TPC could be seeing their children leaving the family church for the instant gratification TPC offered. So in one way I was targeting the community with the videos. Also, those who may have just begun going to TPC may see it and begin to question. I would like to think that some of you may have done this as well.

Yes, I agree about the volunteer day and that should have been removed. I think the only reason I left it in was that Mike’s authority extended beyond the elders (as in reported that the lord gave them 50 days to build the church) and the pressure was imposed on all. This first video was supposed to be hype. I meant for it to be. A shock. A wake up call. The “slave labor” thing was over the top but it does represent the hold Mike has on all within the church. Because what’s the difference if staff do not feel free to question or debate or challenge? What is a slave if not this?

I am not a radical type of person. I do, however, feel the need to help those in the community where I can. This is something that was worrisome and I just wanted to offer some helpful information in a way that would cause possible insight and questioning.

Welcome mville04,

Don't be discouraged, we are all trying to reach out and have different ways of doing it. None of us are perfect. Look to the Lord for direction and use your gifts.

Outreach

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Date: March 06, 2009 04:04AM

Apostleship is a foundational ministry (Eph. 2:20), and as such they are placed “on the bottom,” servants to the other ministries and the entire community. Apostles go through much learning and growth and are developed over time. When it comes to being an apostle, there are no overnight wonders. Apostleship requires longevity and a proven track record. Because it is a relational ministry, it is necessary for them to earn the respect of others, without which they’ll never be able to function. The true apostle of Christ is not interested in titles, hierarchy, or positional authority. It is not a glamorous ministry nor is it a walk of glory or honor. On the contrary, the apostle must be willing to endure great personal sacrifice and hardship, [6] walking at the end of the procession. [7] In many cases, the apostle has taken a personal walk through the wilderness in preparation for his ministry. Apostles must set aside self-ambition in order to commit to the service and promotion of others. The greater the success in ministry, the greater the temptation to think, “I’m God’s chosen instrument.” Apostles must be on guard to not give in to such prideful thoughts. All efforts to self-promote run contrary to the very core of their ministry and, if present, will undermine their every effort to build community.

I copied this from the facebook post, what this says about apostles and what Mike and Tony say are way different. I dont see where demanding honor, submission and authority is mentioned here. The point isnt wether apostles and prophets are biblical its are mike and tony bearing fruit of a true apostle do they fit in with what is mentioned above, I dont think so. Is cyndi a prophet does the spirit speak to her or is she just into wishful thinking.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Date: March 06, 2009 04:42AM

a



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2009 04:47AM by TurningPointReject.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Date: March 06, 2009 06:26AM

Looks like Turning Point Church World Outreach Center in Marysville WA is in another news publication. The following is an article found in the Herald.

[www.heraldnet.com]

Who would have thought that a church that once taught that people should reject their biological parents and submit themselves to the whims of "spiritual parents" assigned by the church would ever want to get permission from parents before inviting students to their church activities.

Ever hear the saying, "you sow what you reap"? When you teach false teachings about parent's roles in the lives of children, when you suggest students should reject their parents and follow the "spiritual mother or father" that the church gives to them- why would you be surprised when a parent gets upset by one of your interns sending an unsolicited message to their child on My Space? Every parent should be concerned if their children have had unsolicited contact with members of TPC.


The following quote from the apostle is intriguing.

"We don't know for sure what took place," Villamor said. "What I can tell you is it has never been the policy at Turning Point to break any rules. I actually have been very intentional about teaching our people to work within whatever rule structure exists."

No doubt there is a very rigid structure of rules in place for those at TPC. Rules of Honor. Rules of Worship. Rules of "double tithing". Rules of "Covenant Relationship". Rules about "spiritual parents". Mike has been very intentional. Working within the rule structure in place at TPC ultimately leads to control over you and your life.

What about the "rules" that were given out this week? Remember, TPC members, NO TALKING TO REPORTERS. Also, STOP READING THE POSTS ON RICK ROSS CULT FORUM. Yes...rules...rules indeed.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: LearningPoint ()
Date: March 06, 2009 06:45AM

THERE IS SO MUCH CONFUSION ABOUT THE APOSTLE THING. PLEASE TAKE TIME TO READ WHAT'S HERE AS PART OF YOUR RESEARCH...


Yes, the original apostles were FOUNDATIONAL, laying the foundation of the church, as Jesus said they would. They walked with Jesus, heard his teachings directly, and faithfully laid that foundation, writing what we have in our hands as the NT, establishing churches, and teaching them walk faithfully. There were two main apostles, of course. Jesus said to Peter that he would build his church on the foundation of this apostle; Peter was the apostle to the Jews. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles; Jesus appeared to Him on the road to Damascus and also gave his supernatural revelations for his work. God's purpose for them was accomplished by the grace of God. Today, by virtue of the fact that Jesus in bodily form is not walking among us as He did with the apostles, there are NO APOSTLES AMONG US IN THAT SENSE. (I do believe that God sends men and women to do His work; in that functional sense, we can say that people are doing the work of an apostle; we usually refer to them as missionaries and church planters today.) BUT THE OFFICE OF AN APOSTLE, as Mike and Tony are seeking to fill, is not valid for them to attibute to themselves or to have anyone else attribute to them. They are not qualified.

I posted the following earlier in the forum. Please take time to read this information. It will clarify the ambiguities about the word "apostle" and the role of an apostle.

Here are some excerpts from an article entitled "Are There Modern-Day Apostles?" found at this link [www.apologeticspress.org]:

THE QUALIFICATIONS OF AN APOSTLE

When one assembles all the relevant New Testament data, at least three qualifications emerge as prerequisite to one becoming an apostle in the official sense (Hayden, 1894, p. 33, expands these credentials to seven in number). First, an apostle had to have seen the Lord and been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection (Acts 1:22; 22:14; 1 Corinthians 9:1). Second, an apostle had to be specifically selected by the Lord or the Holy Spirit (Matthew 10:5; Mark 3:13-14; Luke 6:13; Acts 1:26; 9:15; 22:14-15,21; 26:16). Third, an apostle was invested with miraculous power to the extent that he could perform miracles. The power to perform miracles included the capability to confer the ability to work miracles to other individuals through the laying on of his hands (Mark 3:15; 16:17-20; Luke 9:1-2; John 14:12,26; 15:24-27; 16:13; Acts 2:43; 4:29-31,33; 5:12,15-16; 6:6; 8:14-18; 19:6; 2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11; Hebrews 2:3-4). Jesus referred to His bestowal of miraculous capability upon the apostles when He promised they would be “endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49).


NO APOSTLES TODAY

Unfortunately, several groups that claim affiliation with the Christian religion allege to have apostles among them, including Catholicism, Mormonism, and some pentecostal groups. This claim is unbiblical. No person living today can meet the qualifications given in Scripture for being an apostle. No one living today has been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection. Christ has selected no one living today for the apostolic role. No one living today possesses the miraculous capabilities of an apostle. We should not be surprised that people would falsely claim to be apostles. Jesus warned that false prophets would come in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they would be ravening wolves (Matthew 7:15). Paul described some of his opponents in these words:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

Further warning was issued to the Galatian churches: “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). Anyone claiming to be an apostle today who teaches anything in addition to the New Testament is clearly not an apostle of Christ!

Peter added his voice on the same subject: “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction” (2 Peter 2:1). No wonder John admonished: “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1; cf. Matthew 24:11,24). In the Revelation, the church at Ephesus was commended because they “tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars” (Revelation 2:2).

Another excerpt (the conclusion) from a paper/book about apostles found at this link [www.thefaithfulword.org]:

Apostles: Conclusion

History tells of no mighty army of apostles trained and sent out by the first century church. The apostles died, John last of all, leaving no apostles in their place. The only people who would be surprised by this are those that mistakenly believe in a Roman Catholic system of "apostolic succession." But those who read the Scriptures will readily recall that there is no teaching whatsoever in Scripture for a believer to put into practice today on "How to Become an Apostle." Paul never wrote to tell Timothy how to spot the next apostle after he died. No Scripture ever details the qualifications of an apostle except to say that they had to be with Christ, be appointed by Him, witness His resurrection, be trained by Him for three years, and perform miraculous signs, wonders, and healings.

As the apostles died, there were fewer and fewer men who had been appointed by Christ as apostles. As they died and became fewer, the number of churches was growing and growing. The last apostle on Earth completed the Scriptures closing the door on prophetic Scripture and all the authenticating apostolic sign gifts. But the number of Christian churches was even larger.

Who will do the apostles’ work of teaching and preaching and planting churches today? The church planters today are the same men that planted churches side-by-side with apostles--the evangelists. The apostles’ teachings and equipping works are still with us--the Scriptures. Just as the church carried on the tasks of church planting, teaching, and evangelism in those days without benefit of any new apostles, so too can we carry on today in the same strength of the Spirit and with the same zeal, if we are willing.

What are we to think of men today who demand to be respected as apostles? Only God knows a man’s heart, desires, and motives. We cannot judge the inner thoughts of such a one. But, written in Scripture, an apostle’s own words, is a warning about men who used to call themselves Paul’s equals: "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

To be certain, they may appear to have good character, even a righteous character; but, they may be disguised as a servant of righteousness, or disguised as an apostle. Even servants of Satan can appear to have "good characters." Good character is no substitute for good theology. Good character is no requisite for apostleship. Paul condemns the attempt of these men to be apostles; Paul did not applaud their desire. He found these apostolic imposters of himself to be false.

May we not be guilty of teaching men how to become false apostles.


"…you put to the test those who call themselves apostles..and you found them to be false;" (Revelation 2:2)

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: BraveHeart ()
Date: March 06, 2009 07:56AM

how many people from Turning Point have made business investments with mike?

"Partnering" with Mike in your business or investment.

Maybe you would like to share with the readers on the blog how that is going for you.

BraveHeart

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Mville04 ()
Date: March 07, 2009 12:09AM

I borrowed this from a poster calling himself James Cambell who replied to the Herald article.

"In the Stranger story, Gail Miller, assistant superintendent of the Marysville School Districkt said

“the Marysville School District called Turning Point Church to tell them they must cease lunchtime visits to Totem Middle School. They can’t proselytize and they cannot solicit individual student’s contact information.”

She also said
“We are doing an investigation because, if [Olver] is correct in that this is what is happening, that is inappropriate. If students ask them questions, they can answer matter-of-factly, but they cannot seek them out.”

The story clearly states that the church has been "barred".

BUT
In the Herald …Turning Point Senior Pastor (and Apostle) Mike Villamoor said “We have voluntarily taken all our teens off of the school campuses, just as a statement to the school district and even to the mother, to let people know that we want our interns trained correctly.”

So either Gail Miller with the School District is lying or Mike Villamoor is lying. Which is it Herald?

I know for a fact Villamoor is lying when he said “The church has no desire or intent to recruit anybody, in fact that’s actually contrary to my way of thinking, my policies, my belief.”

I know first hand that this is a blatant lie. He knows everything the elders do and that includes the youth ministies. They have had their marching orders for many years. The youth pasters for Turning Point would stand out between the buildings at the Middle School and hand out bibles to students. My son told me about this when he attended that school 5 years ago! The pastors are very active in recruiting and if you don't belive it just look at all of the Turning point church "The Edge" videos on you tube. Go ahead; plug a search in there and start watching. It's All About Recruiting. So he is lying.

Gee thanks for all of the lack of investigative reporting there Hearald! I've never seen such a soft ball in my life. Wouldn't it have been better to just let Pastor villamoor write the article for you?

An interesting post. I read the "Stranger" articles. There are actually several of them. It's like the oposite side of the same coin. I find them both biased, pro and con. There have been several references to my cult video and that is beginning to bother me. My intent wasn't to draw people away from a possitive spiritual centerpoint in their lives but to avoid centeralist, self serving, doctrines. So far it looks like it may be what is needed but I will keep a close eye on the situation.

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