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zeebrook
Back to the issue you still have not cited any evidence that Thieme and Thiemeites believe that a human being activates the Holy Spirit. Apart from your preconceived inferences and verbose statements. On the contrary Thieme does say,
"The believer understands Bible doctrine (“the things of God”) on a non-meritorious base through the ministry of the Spirit…What causes the human system of perspicacity to function? Human IQ. What activates the grace system? The ministry of the Holy Spirit through the filling of the Spirit! (Grace Apparatus for Perception, p6).
Thieme never, to my knowledge, nor any Thiemeites I know, ever considered that a human being activates the Holy Spirit. They always have emphasised the filling of the Spirit as being required to learn and this is confirmed by confession of sin. Never that a human being activates the Holy Spirit. So you need to provide evidence that Thieme ever stated the concept of the human activation of the Holy Spirit. Put up or .......
Yes Thieme did state believers are to be under a pastor-teacher whether in person or via tapes, but also books. I do not agree with that statement but do believe that believes should be in a church fellowship (cf Hebrews 10:25)..."
zeebrook's strawman argument against me begin's with zeebrook's distortion and misquoting my original statement:
My original statement:
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Truthtesty
To the Forum:
There is no need to submit to the corrupt authority of any christian to "activate" the Holy Spirit in either case: one, to let a person "hear" the gospel for the first time, or two, for the christian to "hear" teachings of Holy Spirit.
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forum.culteducation.com]
zeebrook's lie of my original statement
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zeebrook
Nice snow job. No where have you backed up your statement that Thieme or Thiemeites say that the "Holy Spirit is activated by any human being".
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forum.culteducation.com]
Does everyone see the difference in the quoted material above? And zeebrook's error?
According to Thieme, for the christian to be taught it required
both conditions: confession of sins for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and submission to Thieme's false authority as a reich pastor ( falsely equating Thieme's authority with G-d's authority and submitting to that.)
Not one without the other.
According to Thieme, both conditions were necessary to learn Bible doctrine. According to Thieme, once the confessed christian submitted to Thieme's false authority (falsely equated to G-d's authority
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Thieme
We adjust to G-ds infinite, immutable, ceaselessly active authority by adjusting to the right pastorteacher's authority."
), then BOTH conditions were met where THEN the Holy Spirit was "activated" to co-teach Bible Doctrine with Thieme.
Would zeebrook dare to argue that according to Thieme that both conditions were not necessary to learn Bible doctrine? That would be foolish. That was my original point. Also as a sidepoint would zeebrook dare to argue that confessing of sins did not activate the Holy Spirit's ministry(Thieme taught that)?
To Thieme to learn Bible doctrine it required
both the Holy Spirit's ministry (filling of the Holy Spirit), but it also REQUIRED submission to the authority of a right pastor:
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Thieme
"You cannot learn doctrine apart from the one who has the gift of pastor-teacher and therefore the authority. As long as you live you will be dependent on your right pastor, the final authority in the local church. Since you cannot feed yourself, you must go to the place where there is authority — a pastor-teacher communicating to a congregation."
It says right there
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Thieme
"You cannot learn doctrine apart from the one who has the gift of pastor-teacher and therefore the authority...
Why is that so difficult for zeebrook to understand that one part of the condition is not met? Then once both conditions are met "co-activated" to teach Bible doctrine to the confessed christian. According to Thieme the Holy Spirit could not teach the confessed christian Bible Doctrine unless the confessed christian submitted to Thieme's authority at Berachah ( or submitted to Thieme while listening to a taperecorder or reading a booklet...).
My original statement:
Quote
Truthtesty
To the Forum:
There is no need to submit to the corrupt authority of any christian to "activate" the Holy Spirit in either case: one, to let a person "hear" the gospel for the first time, or two, for the christian to "hear" teachings of Holy Spirit.
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forum.culteducation.com] ,
is true.
There is no gift or gifts given a higher authority than any other gift.
This being a cult forum, it quite obvious how difficult it was for a suckered thiemite to make a decision that Thieme was "wrong" in any way(ie. wrong pastor for them. ok then where is the "right" pastor, which no one else taught?), because Thieme was "right pastor" who had falsely equated his authority to G-d's authority.
Saying Thieme was wrong for them was like saying G-d was wrong for them, because Thieme made such ridiculous claims of falsely equating his authority with G-d's authority".
Truthtesty
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2011 04:26AM by Truthtesty.