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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: June 09, 2014 09:05PM

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: June 22, 2014 08:33PM

To the Forum:

I want to show the real history of christian conflict arising from the Catholic Church to the Prostestant reformation. See "The battle for the Bible" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RubxnoTeL_M&noredirect=1 Also, That the corrupt translators of bibles were translating according to the political powers that existed at that time to falsely equate the authority of God with a corrupt pastor (resulting in giving that authority to the government/king/parliament/upper rich class) to enrich rich men by falsely controlling and enslaving the beliefs of the christian slave masses to the false political masters. Translating from greek to English began in the 1300s (John Wycliffe) http://biblehub.com/wycliffe/2_corinthians/1.htm and was by no means created by R. B. Thieme jr. It is against US law to murder Christians for reading the greek to English transaltion of the scripture today. The worst that a coercive pastor can legally do today in America is to intimidate a christian that it is somehow “wrong” for them to read it for themselves. That is what Thieme did. After thousands were murdered for daring to read the greek to English scripture. Thieme states (600 years later) that “You wont get much out of it”(reading the bible for yourself).”better come to class”. If someone wants a good greek translation simply read the Wycliffe or Tyndale bibles. Thieme would practice “inculcating/brainwashing” the Christians mind with Thieme’s privatized terminology which was not in the greek scripture. And Thieme falsely equated the authority of God with a false concept of a corrupt pastor’s authority. This resulted in a lot of unsound christian minds, with many destructive effects.

The original rebels John Wycliffe (body exhumed and desecrated) and William Tyndall(caught tortured and burnt alive) fought against the Catholic church so that the individual could be free to read the Bible for themselves and make up their own sound mind (not brainwashed mind nor inculcated mind, but sound mind) as to what the scripture states..

John Wycliffe translated Titus 2:15 "Speak thou these things, and admonish thou, and reprove thou with all commandment; no man despise thee."

John Wycliife was the original rebel who fought against the false authority of the Catholic church, and could well be said started the protestant reformation.

John Wycliffe had the latin vulgate to work with but the latin vulgate was translated from greek originally.

William Tyndale translated Titus 2:15 "
These thinges speake and exhorte and rebuke with all commaundynge Se that no man despise the."

William Tyndale was strangled lost consciouness and recovered consciouness while being burned to death and murdered by the church for translating scripture from greek to English..

Governments from Rome to the England claimed that they had authority over translation and that the christian could not read the bible for themselves, resulting in murder for those who dared read it for themselves. Rome and England murdered thousands to try to keep thier false authority over the masses of christians.

Thieme claimed in The 1984 hardcopy edition of "Christian integrity" by RB Thieme jr does have the subtitle "components of completed happiness".p. 182 The 1984 Christian integrity" by RB Thieme jr p. 182 says "And being inculcated with His thinking!", instead of "And being brainwashed with His thinking!".
Very slight word changes throughout the paragraph.

The warning is that Thieme spoke of "inculcated" with "brainwashed" as meaning the same.

You can see this in other places as well:

Thieme quote: When anyone lives continually in the arrogance complex, he is inculcated with the thinking of Satan as the ruler of fallen angels before the creation of man. Anyone who remains in the hatred complex is inculcated with the thinking of Satan as the ruler of the world after men became his prisoners. (Isa_42:7) Christian integrity by RB Thieme jr

Thieme quote: You may have been brainwashed by human viewpoint such as, “We all have the divine spark,” or “We’re all brothers”; but that is the Satanic philosophy peddled right from the mouth of the devil! King of Kings and Lord of Lords by RB Thieme jr


It is is clear here again, that Thieme interchanges "inculcated" with "brainwashed" when addressing satan's thinking to the Thieme defined Christian.

The glaring question is Where does the Bible say that you are either "brainwashed" by G-d or by Satan? It doesn't. The bible says the christian is to be of a sober mind, not a brainwashed mind or inculcated mind. http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=sober+mind


So I ask you thiemites as you are listening to a Thieme tape with Thieme's privately coined words did you notice the difference between the brainwashing/inculcating of Thieme and the brainwashing/inculcating of G-d? If so what different words did you hear other than Thieme's words? Did you hear G-d speak one word to you? If not then you equated Thieme with G-d.

Thieme's speaking and false claim of spiritual authority was not equivalent to G-ds. The scripture speaks for itself.

Understanding God's Government By Paul W. Syltie quote: "All Authority Inserted into Titus 2:15: The KJV reads: "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee". In English, it sounds like Paul is telling Titus that he has "all authority" over the brethren-as a king or dictator might. The Greek words for "all authority" are pas and epitage. The latter word is used five other times in the New Testament (Rom 16:26, 1 Cor 7:6.24; 2Cor 8:8, 1Tim1:1, Tit1:3). In all these cases epitage is translated "commandement" and refers to a commandement of the Eternal. The incorrect use of "authority" makes it sound like Titus was the rebuking authority, not the Eternal commandments. Also, the Greek pas is translated "every" 117 out of 1.243 times. When pas is used with a word that trepresents a "class of items", pas refers to "every itme in the class." This verse would be much more consistently translated if it said "rebuke with every commandment". Titus was correct the brethren using every commandement of the Father and Christ. [books.google.com]

Epitage consistently means "Commandment of God". I submit to you that epitage in Titus 2:15 is refering to the commandment of God and not a false equalization of a pastor that has an equal authority to God.

I also submit that John Wycliffe and William Tyndale (the founders of the protestant reformation against the catholic political governments roman and english churches) never falesly translated Titus 2:!5 as "all authority" of the pastor over the masses but "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all commandments of the Lord". The commandments of the Lord are the rebuking authority, not a sinful pastor.

There are 7 verses in the New Testament which use epitage. In 6 cases epitage is traditionally translated "commandment", in reference to the commandment of G-d.

Ro 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting G-d, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Co 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

Notice Pau's rhetorical nature. Does that sound like someone who speaks with "all authority"? Paul speaks with permission , in this case.

1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

Again notice the rhetorical nature of Paul. Paul makes distinction between "my judgment" and "commandment of the Lord". Also, notice that when Paul says he gives his judgment it is done so by having obtained the mercy of the Lord to be faithful. Not deceitful for an extremist political agenda, but faithful.

2Co 8:8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.

Again notice the rhetorical nature of Paul making distinction between Paul's "words", and the commandment of G-d.

1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of G-d our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

Tit 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of G-d our Saviour;

Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all commmandment (of the Lord)

In all these cases epitage is used of the "commandment of G-d" If you notice the entire chapter of Titus 2, it is a list of commandments not of Paul, but of Jesus. So it appears Syltie the logic is sound and consistent with other Biblical directions. Syltie does make the error of saying " The latter word is used five other times in the New Testament (Rom 16:26, 1 Cor 7:6.24; 2Cor 8:8, 1Tim1:1, Tit1:3).", but you can see 6 other verses are listed in the same sentence, instead of 5. And it is 1 Cor 7:25, not 1 Cor 7:24.

2 Corinthians 1:24 Not that we lord it over your faith we are workers for your joy, for by faith ye stand

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/1-24.htm

2 Corinthians 1:24 clearly states that a pastor does not have authority over a christians faith. And? if a pastor did exercise authority (kyrieuomen) over a christians faith it would hurt the christian standing in faith "for by faith ye stand", not help.

The bible speaks of kyrieuomen 7 times. in these examples the christian pastor DOES NOT HAVE kyrieuomen over a christians faith.
http://biblehub.com/greek/kurieuomen_2961.htm

Now in reference to "Law" there was kurieuo (lording over) http://biblehub.com/greek/nomo__3551.htm ie: The Law of God and Moses commanded. Death ruled over kurieuo Jesus. Look at examples of how the lording over is used in the reference to "Law". Kurieuo is never used with a pastor or elder. Death no longer rules over Jesus as was raised up.

To the christian the works of the Jewish law are over and faith in Jesus is life so is the kurieuo (lording over) of man over the christian. http://biblehub.com/text/galatians/2-16.htm Moses commanded (kurieuo) the Jews. God commands the Jews and the christians. But a pastor at best speaks with permission and explicitly does not "lord it over the faith" of a christian because in doing so it is a violation and the christian cannot stand in thier faith. 2 Corinthians 1:24 Nor does a pastor lord it over the mind of the christian, for the christian is to be of sober/sound mind http://biblehub.com/greek/4993.htm.

Galatians 2-19 [biblehub.com]
[biblehub.com]

Being positive to the false words of Thieme's about Thieme's false authority is not substantiated at all as biblical scripture. Clearly the opposite is stated in 2 Corinthians 1:24. It does however, serve a political end by falsely controlling the individuals christians belief (and political vote in November elections). One could say that "Thieme is no worse than the murderous political Roman and England governements who killed thousands to prevent the individual from reading from greek to true english." I'll let God judge that. It's just that in modern day America a "church" can't physically murder the christian. The church/ pastors can only verbally murder the christian's faith, which results in a false depedency (and other things of false nature). And? if a christian is uninformed/unedified then a christian's faith can be verbally murdered. "...for by faith ye stand". In Thieme's case Thieme taught an inculcation or brainwashing of the christian either by God or by Satan, as if the christian had no freedom of choice to choose thier own spirituality.

1 JOhn 2:27 KJV "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/2-27.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2014 08:53PM by Truthtesty.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: June 24, 2014 06:24AM

To the Forum:

More evidence of Thieme's false conflation of the christians life falsely backwards engineered against cold war anti-communist brainwashing/inculcation. Thieme apparently thinks if he can inculcate/brainwash the christian through the bible first before the communist brainwashes the the christian's mind, then Thieme must have thought he could have won the cold war with this approach and single handedly defeated communism from the pulpit. He could not have been further from the truth.


Again notice Thieme's equalization of brainwashing = inculcation.

COMPONENTS OF COMPLETED HAPPINESS 3rd edition 2002 "Christian integrity" by RB Thieme jr. p. 199

Divine Happiness and True Independence

The mature believer’s “completed state of happiness” in gate eight of the divine dynasphere includes sharing God’s happiness, becoming spiritually self-sustaining, completing the edification complex of the soul, receiving supergrace blessings, and being appointed to the highest order of royal family knighthood.
Sharing God’s happiness has nothing to do with circumstances or the details of life. Sharing the happiness of God is a result of knowing God And being inculcated with His Thinking. God always has perfect happiness; when the believer shares the Thinking of God, as revealed in the Bible doctrine, he shares God’s happiness.


COMPONENTS OF COMPLETED HAPPINESS "Christian integrity" by RB Thieme jr

The mature believer’s “completed state of happiness” in gate eight of the Spiritual life includes sharing God’s happiness, becoming spiritually self-sustaining, completing the edification complex of the soul, receiving supergrace blessings, and being appointed to the highest order of royal family knighthood. Sharing God’s happiness has nothing to do with circumstances or the details of life. (Money, sex, job, position, family, friends, wealth, etc.) Sharing the happiness of God is a result of knowing God! And being "brainwashed" with His Thinking! (Eph_5:26-27) God always has perfect happiness; when the believer shares the Thinking of God, as revealed in the Word, he shares God’s happiness.

Thieme left no freedom of choice for the christian. The christian was either inculcated/brainwashed by God (positive to Thieme's verbage) or inculcated/brainwashed by satan (negative to Thieme's verbage).

Truthtesty

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: June 24, 2014 06:30AM

To the Forum:

Quote in appendix A of Thieme's booklet "doctrine of divine essence"

Quote
Thieme
"We adjust to G-ds infinite, immutable, ceaselessly active authority by adjusting to the right pastor teacher's authority."

No where in the Bible is this true. Thieme equates his false authority with Jesus' teaching authority.

Even demons and unclean spirits respected the authority of the teachings of Jesus. http://biblehub.com/text/mark/1-27.htm

Examples of exousian in greek: [biblehub.com]

but the same is not true of a pastor/elder. Pastor(s)/elders are to be examples to the flock http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_peter/5-3.htm 1 Peter 5:3 And christians are to imitate the faith of those leading you in the word. Remember those leading you in the word, Who's faith follow (not follow authority) considering the end of thier conversation Heb 13:7 [biblehub.com] [biblehub.com] . Not that they have the AUTHORITY exousian [biblehub.com] But that they might offer themselves as an example.

Truthtesty

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Date: July 19, 2015 12:06PM

I'm not sure if this is even still a live thread but I have so many questions because my small dealings with this man's teaching and legacy caused a bunch of questions of my own faith.

a little history on me. I am Baptist Christian.

I have just freshly been broken up with a wonderful guy, who's family have been with R.B. Thieme since around his grandparents era.

until the break up things had been fine but as with all relationships there arose some problems and I was told that being upset/wanting physical affection/being sad was called "emotionalism" and there were so many almost mechanical/scientific charts and terminology for these teachings. at times it felt almost like some kind of bizaare hypnosis in a way. how my guy would be in a placid mildly happy way, never really happy or angry.

and the grounds of my break up wasI was not spiritually compatible. because I couldn't/didn't care to know all the overly complicated and useless knowledge and that I was caught up in "emotionalism"

I want to know if anyone has any direct exprience with this particular facet of this Man's teachings. I'd like to better understand this all, so I can find peace for my own heart's faith and need to arm myself with knowledge to see if it would be worth persuing a relationship with one who's family is steeped in this Thieme lifestyle.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: ouke ()
Date: August 22, 2015 03:30AM

R. B Thieme Jr. didn't know even the basics of law. His appeal's trail doctrine is shown to be false here [youtu.be]

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: RBW ()
Date: September 08, 2015 02:02AM

I grew up in this church in the 70's. If you wish to dialogue, please reply to this message.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: September 20, 2015 08:55PM

Hello HEALTHYHEARTSICKHEART

Wow. I know what you mean about "unemotionalism" espoused by Thiemites.

I think it's best to understand that Thieme was a neoconservative political activist. In other words before Fox News it was RB Thieme jr. He tried to control the political world with bible tapes for extremist right wing ideology. Thieme spoke on radio in opposition to liberals and MLK. In other words liberals and conservatives fought and still fight for who is "right" through the bible. For political control of the Christian mind, which translates into control of the Christian vote in November.

My point is that your dealing with a large group of people who think they are hearing the perfect message of G_d. The reality is Thieme took Dr. Chafer systematic theology and twisted the Greek translations not straight into English but into Thieme neoconology. In Thieme's mistranslations everything is antihuman first. Everything was against the bleeding heart liberals who loved the blood of Jesus whether they were liberal Catholics following Kennedy or liberal blacks following MLK etc... Thieme twisted any human translation of Dr. Chafer and then would turn around and try to point to Dr. Chafer (and others Nazi Kittel etc...) in as support for Thieme' mistranslations that he would call "breakthroughs", which were always anti-liberal.

In the political world I've seen liberals hide truths that would harm liberals and neoconservatives who would hide truths that would hurt neoconservatives. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

Don't be impressed with extreme discipline of thieme and thiemites. It doesn't make anything false any truer.

Is is a cult? Definitely. The question is is it a benign cult or a destructive cult.

Corrupt Thieme is not a part of the perfect authority of G_d, yet Thieme falsely teaches that as the only right pastor that Thieme is part of the perfect authority of G_d. There is no chain of command. Only G_d's perfect authority. Thieme was just another sheep (albeit twisted)


I would say it is also a destructive cult because submission to Thieme's false authority disassociates the unwitting christians self-identification with reality. I have seen "normal" christians give up thier own identity to become a copy of RB Thieme jr. They emulate his mannerisms his speech behaviour beliefs etc...

My suggestion to you is to make up your own mind from your own heart of truth that only you know.

To be cast aside as "emotional" based on false cult teacher by a potential husband is no way to prepare for a future marriage and family or even being treated respectfully in the dating phase.

You might suggest your boyfriend find a relationship with an unemotional rock for a relationship and see how he likes that.

Even Navy Seals have breaking points. We are all human.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2015 09:24PM by Truthtesty.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: FreeAtLast2 ()
Date: January 16, 2016 10:50AM

I'm glad to find this forum is back up and running. I found this forum years ago, and it was and is good to know I'm not alone. I had personal experience with berachah church from the early 60's until the early 80's, followed by my continued experience with berachah through family members still attending in 2016. I was among one of the many children and young adults who sat in bible class night after night with pen and notebook, scribbling down the doctrine of this or the doctrine of that. It was Bob Thieme Jr and assistant pastor Buddy Dano for a while, until Thieme threw Dano out. I was thoroughly indoctrinated by an early age. By my mid teens, I was tormented by the angst created from the war that raged between my berachah-brainwashed self and my true self as I sought an authentic connection with God. It was horrid. I believe it was God who got me out of there. I'm so grateful. But I did not come away unscathed.One can't experience that much brainwashing without residual effects.

I believe it is brainwashing. I later learned that Thieme Jr had extensive experience studying and lecturing on the topic of brainwashing.He certainly knew how to do it.

Maybe I'll post more later. Even thinking about it for too long is difficult. I clicked on an online sermon sample recently.Hearing the voice of RB Thieme III is difficult because he sounds so much like his father--that flat, authoritarian voice. It's just a voice, but it traumatizes me a little bit. The message is toned down a bit (at least for the online samples) but the message is still off. They still adhere to the theology of RB Thieme Jr. That hasn't changed. It is silly theology.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: January 20, 2016 12:56PM

Freeatlast2,

Thanks for sharing. You survived to talk about it. I think you should be so be happy for that. Some I know did not live to lament. I tell you it doesnt matter what RB Thieme jr thought. What matters is (even though it may not feel like it) what YOU think. PERIOD. Your faith in God and yourself and what you think is what matters. It is a tradgedy that so many have been misled. IT IS YOUR SOUL. NOT RB THIEMES SOUL. YOU WATCH OUT FOR YOUR OWN SOUL. RB was more than likely CIA and at least had ties to military intelgiance/CIA. Thieme was a political speaker and put politics before the truth of the Word of God. So guard your own soul because Thieme was a wolf in the night.

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