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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: August 23, 2012 08:54PM

Hi guys

Yes, I agree that qualifiied people should be expected to preform according to their qualificaitons and this has nothing to do with their spiritual walk with God. I also agree that Cedars is worrying because all of the teachers are members of SMC and therefore, presumably, hold the same views as the leaders and I for one would not be exposing my children to that kind of destructive teaching.

With regards to the food hygiene in the school, I think I'd be more worried about the spiritual food the pupils will be spoonfed with. I personally know the majority of the teachers and, while they are good at their earthly jobs, their spiritual point of view is certainly more important to them than their paid jobs are and I'm quite sure these views will colour ALL their classes and teaching.

Having grown up in the church, I know these views make youngsters arrogant and adamant that they know the answers to life with God and no one else has a clue. That's what worries me, how many kids are growing up the way I did and having their minds poisoned by 'holy perfect' teachings? This is not something you can easily un-learn (as posted here before) and it does leave you scarred for life when you realise you have been holy perfectly duped for many, many years just to fulfill another human being's need for control over other people. Your whole world seems to come tumbling down around your ears and the effect lasts a life-time.

I have been out of the church now for the best part of 30 years and, while time has made it easier to bear and deal with, there are still scars which will never heal. Would you want your children to grow up with that? Never! I praise God every day of my life that my folks were discerning enough to realise the folly of SMC and get the heck out of there before it got any worse but it doesn't remove, for me anyway, the deep scars already in my mind, heart and soul. I'm desperately worried for the innocent minds of all the children in SMC and Cedars because I know what SMC can do to you at such a young and impressionable age.

God doesn't care what religion you are or where you go to church, in his eyes the church is ONE regardless of where or how you meet and this means that the richest fellowship with other Christians comes from INTEGRATION and not isolation. Of course, the devil on the other hand wants to split us into little groups who abhor the other little groups and therefore do not get the enrichment from discussion with other God-loving people. The bible is always open to interpretation and only communication with each other helps us to find the answers to the questions we have, regarding the points of view of our leaders and teachers. And what SMC teaches is just the points of view of the leaders, not open to discussion by anyone.. or else! SMC leaders are not infallable, they are not 'the chosen ones' as they would have the congregation believe. God's chosen ones are the ones who are caring, loving and helping their fellow man, with love and grace, regardless of whether or not those people hold the same beliefs as you do. It's what's in your heart and soul that matter and not what organisation you choose to attend.

I know many people who are still attending the church and I love them dearly (even though there has been little or no contact since I left) but I know the mindset and, unfortunately, these people have lived the SMC life now for too long and it will take a huge miracle for the die-hards to change their minds. Many of them already have qualms but believe that they are sinning just by letting the tiniest niggle into their minds, unfortunately this means that, in some cases, they are actually ignoring God speaking to them and trying to give them the truth but they try to block it from their minds believing that they are sinful thoughts of their own making. It is so sad because I can see that these loved ones have not had the fulfillment and enjoyment out of life that they may have had under a different church life. One dear, dear friend in particular should have had a few children by now but was forced by the church not to marry someone she loved. She married many years later and was blessed with one child. Had she married earlier, when she really wanted to, she would have had the number of children she really wanted to have, sadly it's too late now for her to have any more. That story is repeated many times in SMC, where the member of the church has split from an intended partner (or even a spouse) because the control-freak leaders 'put the boot in'!

It breaks my heart that kids are still being brought up in SMC under this kind of complete control of their lives by another human-being. People need to realise the megalomania (right spelling? not sure) that rules in SMC. I know other ministers and pastors, who spend their free time going round the houses of their congregation and washing the members feet for them (just like Jesus did) before praying with and mentoring them. Have the SMC leaders EVER done this? No they haven't because they have no humility and God demands humility from us, that is unquestionable. You cannot take charge of guiding the souls of other human beings unless you are completely humble before God AND the people you seek to lead.

It is most urgent that the children are NOT exposed to the mind control and destruction that is SMC and, as parents, you need to be protecting your children from the spiritual and physical harm coming out of the mouths of control-freaks, like so much verbal diahorrea!

In some ways we are the blessed and lucky ones to have had the scales lifted from our eyes so that we can see more clearly, praise God, but who is there for the vulnerable children so that they don't have to go through the torment and, in some cases, utter spiritual destruction that we here have had to endure?

God spare the children from these un-holy teachings.

Love and JOY to all xxx

PS. I for one would love to get together with you all, if logistically possible, so that we can hug each other and support each other physically as well as verbally on this site. Anyone else feel the same?

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: CovLass ()
Date: August 23, 2012 09:00PM

Quote
ThePetitor
How could that happen? God presumably told them exactly what food to order and how to prepare it.

Yes clearly the catering staff have deep seated spiritual issues that only the ' chosen few' can see and need exorcising of their demons. Or perhaps the Food Standards Agency are also a tool of the devil as we and Latigo are and are clearly persecuting SMC because they are doing the "Lord's Work" (Sarcastic rant over)

I've not commented on here for ages although I have been reading regularly and meaning to comment. It's great to se so many new contributors and even better to hear that so many from Struthers are waking up and seeing that there is life outside of Struthers and that this is more like the life that Christ intended for us. One where we can say we with David "I was glad when they said to me, let us go to the house of the Lord"

The other side to this of course, is that someone looking for a new church and doing a google search on Struthers, will now be able to see exactly what kind of church they are getting into if they choose to join SMC. This was something I had prayed for a long time would happen. When I was considering the move, I did Google SMC and everything I found made them sound wonderful. Perhaps if this forum and the Latigo site were in operation then, I would have run a mile.

I echo the thought of the person who said they doubt there will be any massive change. I know some have left and I'm sure others will also leave too in the near future. Considering they have spoken against churches the are doing anything to keep young people interested in coming to church and most people are ' strongly discouraged' from getting married then maybe they will, over the years, dwindle down to family and friends of leaders. My prayer is that those who are desperately unhappy will have the courage to get out and find God's best for their lives and that those who are proverbially closing their eyes and blocking their ears will have something of an epiphany.

Hi to everyone who has joined recently. It really is great to hear from you. Blackwatch I take my hat off to you. Be careful and remember that you are valued. I'm sure you have plenty of backing in prayer. God bless

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: blackwatch ()
Date: August 24, 2012 06:04AM

Clive *wow* you absolutely nailed it with that last post. You too cbarb, well said. Thanks covlass for your comments.

Here's something that might cheer you up. I had a phonecall tonight from someone i know in another church. A group of christians from that church had a prayer meeting specifically to pray about the SMC situation. As far as i know, it wasnt announced publicly but there was still a number of people there.

Also, has anyone googled SMC recently and looked at the results?

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: August 24, 2012 02:13PM

I imagine that the parents of the children who go to Cedars school are as caring and protective as any and would surely immediately remove their children if the staff were sermonising in the school or treating their children badly. I really don't see how they could get away with it and would think it would be fairly big news locally if they were found to be doing it since, as far as I know, the majority of pupils are from families who have no other connection with Struthers. They'd have no reason to be protective of the school in those circumstances. So maybe the children are as safe as any other child is at school and the Struthers children get the benefit of mixing with non-Struthers children there. Also am pretty sure some of the smaller ones visit toddler groups in different churches and go to non-Struthers nurseries so they're maybe not as cloistered as in times past?

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: August 25, 2012 01:30AM

Hi squareone

That's good and a bit of a relief but I find it a bit hard to believe that there won't be some subtle influencing of the kids because subtle suggestiion is, or at least was when I attended, a well-used tool in SMC. I'm not suggesting at all that the teachers are bad teachers but I know the ways of subtle suggestion which are so second nature among some in the church, because that's how they've been nurtured themselves.

I'm reminded though of a post here where a youngster was encouraged to go against their parents wishes to attend meetings... hmmm.

When manipulation is done in a subtle way, often the manipulated don't even realise what's happened.

I hope things are different now, I'll be so very happy if they are but I do wonder. From reading posts here, there still seems to be a fair amount of manipulation going on in the other areas of the church, is Cedars really immune from it?

I do pray you are right squareone.

Love and JOY
xx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: lintar123 ()
Date: August 25, 2012 03:03AM

The whole Cedars school thing has been something that I feel really strongly about. If you google the staff list you can see that they are mostly related. ?? If you then google the GTC {GENERAL TEACHING COUNCIL} YOU are free to check the register and you can not those who are NOT REGISTERED. I understand that being a Private school, they may not need to do this.... but even so? Also everyone knows that the children can only be under the Struthers instruction. Grooming? or what? And the finances??? The congregation are being duped to put more money in the plate to fund the school! It is black and white and crystal clear what is happening! Why are more people not asking questions? Who is paying the salaries? Why are they all related? (mostly) and why oh why is nobody on to what is happening? Poor children! massive fees... and massive wrong doing! and what about the house in Greenock? that some members of the chosen few live in whilst renting out their own accomodation, again to make/take money to the leaders. Illegal methinks. Using people . Ab using people ? poor vulnerable people who think they are following God? What an abomination! Newspapers methinks.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: August 25, 2012 04:35AM

this is descending into madness. Don't believe the fee paying parents associated with the Cedars School of Excellence are mindless idiots, neither do I believe their children are being groomed. Maybe someone should ask the congregation if they know where their money is going, maybe they do, maybe they don't. On the fees...I know a couple of people who've looked into the school for their children and they said the fees were equivalent to what they would pay for pre-school childcare. The house I know nothing about.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: mandrake ()
Date: August 25, 2012 07:38AM

Hi Everyone,
Its not just Cedars School that has school teachers who are involved with Struthers church. While you may be correct that they are 'good' at their job they surely cant drop their mindset unless they are scizophrenic remember they believe they are right. I so agree that Cedars teachers are from just a few families and the jobs are not advertised out with the school. And obviously a church school has to have its core objectives as putting forward their beliefs or it would be a mainstream non denominational school. The rights of the child is that they should be free to practise the religion of their choice and they should be allowed to make informed choices and not be indoctrinated and brainwashed. Love to all x Group hug to all you magnificent posters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 07:45AM by mandrake.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Chesterk55 ()
Date: August 25, 2012 11:27AM

Re the school debate:

One of the things we perhaps need to acknowledge is that the reasons why Struthers Memorial Church are running a school are genuinely quite hard to understand. The reason for this is that the Struthers leaders have publicly given at least two different versions of the thinking behind the school.


The first is the one mentioned on this forum by Archbishop Laud as the initial justification presented to the church as a fait accompli - bolt out of the blue - this is happening & how dare you question it. The claim was that God (not some bored unemployed and retired teachers but God) had decided a school should be set up to provide an education but mainly a haven for church children (and others sensible enough to enrol) away from the spiritual dangers the leaders claimed were to be encountered in pretty well all state schools. These it seems were rubbish - failing and damaging to children – a fate this new school would avoid by being a God focussed spiritual centre of educational excellence.

Never forget these people could have taken this private school idea and set it all up under a different charity and let it sink or swim. But they chose to set it up as part of the existing Struthers Memorial Church charity (and later the Struthers charitable company) which is why their school is getting pulled into this public conversation about the damaging actions of the church and its leaders. In making the school part of Struthers it is reasonable to expect the treatment of children in one part of the charity will be similar if not identical to the treatment of children in any other part of the charity. That idea is not radical. It is a very reasonable thing for all of us to assume.

But there were not enough kids and the expansion of the school (given the meagre number of families in the few Struthers churches) meant that there would never be enough kids in the church to keep it filled. So the emphasis changed and the documents available for the last few years on the school website stress the general Christian mainstream non denominational nature of the school (honestly! go and read it) and that the only religious and moral education would be that in the national curriculum – the same curriculum, in fact, as these children would get in any state school. The original reasons given for setting up and running the school and why God wanted it (as they were presented to the church congregation at the time) are not mentioned anywhere in any official document either published by Struthers or the Cedars school.

So the Struthers leaders have given us all two incompatible versions of the Christian philosophy of the church school. Fortunately the reasons for this are very easy to understand.

When wanting funding from the church for this venture the leaders tried to tie it into the existing and long unfulfilled “vision” for the church to try and persuade people that financially supporting it was consistent with what the church had been trying to do with young people for years i.e. turn them into committed followers of the Struthers leadership and the Struthers way. People in the church were told this would be a private school with the philosophies of the church at the centre so some members gave money for that. Some were not convinced. Most of the money to set up and run the school came from the collection plates of the 11 churches anyway.

The church school was originally mainly attended by church kids. But after the school relocation and roll expansion the school needed to attract more non Struthers children. So a completely different story and philosophy was created and sold to non church parents significantly de-emphasising the church link. No one reading the present school marketing material could possibly believe that the church ran a school in which children would be treated in any similar way to that which young people would be treated in Struthers church meetings. The public documents make the school procedures and approach very clear. A large number of witnesses on this forum make some of the ways young people have been treated in Struthers church meetings also very clear.

The Struthers special spiritual place idea was gone replaced by very clear statements that Cedars is a mainstream Christian private school where no odd Struthers things about hair-dye, jewellery (which is allowed), holiness, unquestioning obedience to everything said by those “in authority”, letting church leaders choose their friends for them, or their need for exorcism would be taught to the children. And (as far as I know) they are not. As squareone says if the parents got a whiff of the possibility that the more bizarre bits of Struthers teaching (all teachings which are still presented to young people in the Struthers churches as spiritually essential) they would care and be rightly outraged and would likely swiftly take their child and their money elsewhere. The Cedars school management and teachers seem to realise that Struthers teachings and approaches to young people do not work in the real world. So, either because they believe that, or they don't but they just want to keep the school financially afloat, the teachings of Struthers Memorial Church do not seem to much trouble the kids in the school.

If these church school kids then go to young peoples meetings or summer camps then they will be exposed to those particular Struthers teachings and the likely results of that exposure are well covered in this discussion forum.

So can I suggest that if we have differing views being expressed here of what is likely to be happening in the Struthers school there might be very good reasons for that. The SMC leadership have presented at least 2 (and for all we know possibly several more) versions of what the school is for depending on the audience and whose financial support they are chasing at that time.

In support of that claim can I mention one of the more bizarre episodes in relation to all this. There is an annual collection in March/April for the Struthers churches to donate to the school. It normally raises (I gather) about £15000 to £20000. But in the end much more than that seems to be given from church funds to the school. When this collection was being taken in 2011 the head teacher of the school presented the Struthers congregation with an utterly nonsensical and laughable reason why the school was about to invest thousands of pounds in Apple ipads. She reminded the congregation of the revival vision Struthers had been speaking about since the 1970s and announced that the ipads deployment in Cedars school is what would at last lead to that revival vision being fulfilled. Now – pass round the collection plate......

It is this kind of bewildering self serving heretical drivel that they seem to deliver so shamelessly. Whatever they want at that point is what they choose to say. Consistency with the bible or even with anything they have said previously does not seem to be an issue. At least it hasn't been until we all started to talk about it. As Mandrake says - group hug to all you magnificent posters.

So as I say perhaps on all this we should not be too hard on each other. It is not our job to guess correctly 100 % of the time what the Struthers leaders are up to. They are a publicly accountable charity and it is their job to tell us. If they fail to do that coherently and consistently then we, and all others dealing with them, should see that as a clear warning that things are being hidden from the public and those supporting this shifty and secretive society should take their support and their contributions elsewhere.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: August 25, 2012 05:32PM

thank you Chester, knowing a bit about the history helps in understanding the fears surrounding the school. Having not been around at the beginning I probably hold too simplistic a viewpoint. I judged the coffeeshop and school on their merits and they seemed to be providing good service in the areas they were supposed to be providing good service in. That they weren't, it seemed to me, being used for outreach was a good thing given the circumstances as it's what sometimes comes off the platform in the meetings that's the problem.

ps would have loved to have heard the ipad as means to revival explanation. Must have been a cracker



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 05:34PM by squareone.

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