Thank you for all your recent postings here. Like The Petitor, I can hardly keep up with them all! I agree with Cbarb that something is happening now and there is coming a time when SMC leaders are going to have to give answers and explanations. Struthers has been rocked by two big crises in the past and I believe that God allowed these to happen to show that He is sovereign and that man cannot take control of things in his own way for ever. They were firstly the financial losses in the late eighties due to church money being lost on the stock-market (an event which newer folk to SMC will probably know nothing about) and secondly, the untimely and tragic death of main-leader Mary Black after she developed terminal cancer. My point isnt to analyse these particular occurrences, but it is that God can shake things and we as mere human beings can do absolutely nothing to change that. Nothing! So we can be sure that God can again intervene and deal with what is going on in SMC now. Do you know, there are people (ex-SMC folk) praying for and about SMC and have done so for a number of years.

Much as I would commend you for your zeal and desire to see action, Blackwatch, I don't really think that a billboard would serve any useful purpose in this case. SMC folk are located in different parts of the country, for a start, so having a billboard near Greenock wouldnt reach them all. I feel that this Forum and Latigo are already serving as "billboards", giving information and warnings to any who will read their contents. I know that not everyone uses a computer or the internet, but word does get spread around Struthers, we all know they are good at that. They would just get the billboard taken down anyway.

Re the secret recordings, many of us have CDs and tapes from past years in SMC and there is plenty of material within them that provides evidence, plus the podcasts before they were removed. I agree with Clive that it's wise to watch what you post here, Blackwatch, and when, because then you could be identified and I would not like you to experience any unpleasant disciplining by the leaders or even worse, you being pointed out publicly in a meeting. I hope you can encourage others to leave SMC too. Many of us have tried to do this. It's certainly a start if they read this Forum and believe the accounts are true. However, it seems many are still choosing not to believe they're true and remain loyal to SMC.

When I commented about the singing sounding flat on a CD, I wasn't meaning that it was because it was a recording. I meant that, having left SMC a while back and now objectively listening to the singing without being under the control of the song-leader, it sounded flat and lifeless. As Clive explains, music and singing can be used to manipulate people and bring people under a leader's control. That is scary stuff!

I understood what you meant Rensil and I understood Clive's explanation too. I hear what you are both saying. It's just a wee personal thing, I usually liked the hymns that were sung,I found them meaningful and I think there are good singers there, perhaps enhanced by acoustics I don't know. I have very mixed feelings about the place and some of those in it but I can still walk by the church when one of the meetings is on, hear the singing and think 'that sounds good'. Really, it's just a wee personal thing :)


I saw incremental changes in the time I was there in the way people were treated, even in the way I was treated. What I'm not so sure of now is if they were just superficial changes in response to what was being said on this forum, which I knew nothing about until a few months ago. I hope for real change. Not that they're able to enjoy the freedoms of foreign holidays, TV, fashion etc which, yes, they are now...but the inward change that makes us more like the One we say we love. I grew up in a home that had all the 'don't' rules. We had no TV, weren't allowed out to play on a Sunday, were dressed like goodness Knows what and don't even Mention that you might like to go to the cinema with the rest of the youth fellowship etc, etc. It was embarrassing and we stood out for all the wrong reasons, but at the end of the day these things left no lasting damage in themselves. My parents wouldn't adhere to any of these rules now. I think they might even watch TV on a Sunday! :) and that's just fine with me. But more importantly, they're also kinder, less judgmental, less stressed and less full of guilt and fear. Which is even more fine with me as it's the lack of or presence of these things that do the real damage. Somewhere along the way they found out about Grace and chose it over Law. Am rambling but I think all I'm trying to say is that I believe this can happen in this case too. Grace can humble and grace can heal. And wouldn't that be good?

I agree with whoever it was who asked whether miracles happen in 2012 or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2012 06:47PM by squareone.

Hi guys

Yes miracles do happen in 2012. Don't you think it's a miracle that some people are clever enough to work out how to send satelites and cameras into space to give us a better understanding of the vastness of the universe. If you think about it really the advancements in science, health and technology these days are quite miraculous, can you imagine what Moses would've thought of the ten commandments written on an i-pad? :-)

We might not be seeing the red sea being parted, but we are seeing all sorts of miracles every day and it's a miracle that there are members of the SMC congregation who are begining to ask questions and not just believe blindly any more.

The courses of self-flaggelation wich are dished up by SMC are unpalatable to say the least but, if you truly understand what the bible is teaching you cannot fail to realise that these teachings are very far from the true word of God.

If you were indeed perfectly holy then you would be just like God and have no need of him in your life. Is that what the bible teaches?

Of course not, God loves us because he knows we are imperfect and that's why we need him in our lives. He doesn't want us to be perfect, He gave us the choice to depend on him or not and, if we choose to depend on him he guides us through the life he wants for us but you will never be perfect because only God is perfect. God wants us to be joyful in the life we have and to spread that joy and love to others so they can experience God's grace and love also. It is our actions towards others which tell whether or not we are truly walking with God and that walk is a loving and caring and sometimes humbling walk but it is certainly not a degrading, destructive or humiliating walk.

It took me an awful long time to realise that you need to rejoice in your imperfections because God gave you them for a reason and all you need to do is let go of worrying about how 'not up to the grade' you are and be glad that you still have so much to learn from God. The guys still attending SMC need to lift their heads out of the sand (or at least away from the platform) and listen to what God is really saying to you and not what a handful of self-agrandizing human beings are telling you. If you sit down quietly and really READ the bible with an open heart, you can't avoid questioning almost everything you are being told from the SMC pulpit and it is not wrong to question another human being; especially if you are giving that person a large amount of control over your daily life.

None of the SMC leaders seem to have any qualifications in theology or any other christian sciences and, from the sermons I have heard, none of them seem to really understand the teachings of the bible at all, so what qualifies them to tell you how you should conduct your daily walk with God?

Questions are always good and if you're not getting satisfactory answers to your questions (especially regarding conflicting and confusing teachings) then you need to decide whether or not you're going to continue to allow yourself to be deluded by people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It's your decision and you should make it wisely, so ask God (with an open mind and heart) to give you the answer and he will.

Love and JOY to all xxxxx

I havent posted for a while, but i still read the forum and i just wanted to say that i am reminded that God is exceedingly Gracious, not only to the hurt and confused in the congregation of SMC but also to the ones in leadership who may be in error.
Only God knows what is in the heart of each one and Gods forgiveness and Grace is available to them if they come with humility , just as much as it is available to those who have been hurt by them.
The Truth has a life of its own and i think little by little what is not truth in SMC will fade away , maybe the charitable trust of SMC will cease to exist at some point , all the gatherings will stop or dissaffiliate . This may seem to take a long time in our eyes, but often God accomplishes His work in an evolutionary fashion. We like the spectacular , but we know He is more often in the "still , small , voice".

None of the SMC leaders seem to have any qualifications in theology or any other christian sciences and, from the sermons I have heard, none of them seem to really understand the teachings of the bible at all, so what qualifies them to tell you how you should conduct your daily walk with God?

Questions are always good and if you're not getting satisfactory answers to your questions (especially regarding conflicting and confusing teachings) then you need to decide whether or not you're going to continue to allow yourself to be deluded by people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It's your decision and you should make it wisely, so ask God (with an open mind and heart) to give you the answer and he will.

Love and JOY to all xxxxx

I have been reading all the recent posts and wish to thank all the people who have contributed to them.

The debate has moved on and people have been grasping the concept that asking questions regarding the teachings of SMC is not a criticism of God. As mentioned in Latigo 214 recently,Struthers last online sermon was analysed by the posters of this forum and no answers were forthcoming by the leaders. They seem to believe they have no questions to answer...As written in Latigo 214 The last published sermon by Struthers said God moved in a particular way..on the side of those leading Struthers church and those speaking against the church would be silenced by God and those expressing a different view to those expressed by Struthers leaders was to be critical of God. I think that this view depicts a certain amount of arrogance on SMC leaders part and is indicitive of cultish behaviour. One of the key factors of a cult is is to lead through fear, where people are locked into accepting the leaders absolute authority as to question it or disagree with groups doctrine is tantamount to questioning God. To quote the song 'Our God is a great big God and he holds us in his hands.' God gave us the intellect to seek answers and to question everything to seek the truth of Gods words for ourselves. As also mentioned in Latigo the evidence of this forum is that it is not those who are merely asking the SMC leaders to answer some points raised here that have been silenced. The SMC have taken all there sermons out of the public domain.. One must ask why. If they speak the truth why do they not want it out there?

Looking at what the Quaker (Society of Friends) believe.That God is in everyone and that each human being is of unique worth and that God values all people equally. Emphasis is on peoples own direct experience of God rather than on ritual and ceremony. In their church religion is integrated into everyday life without the involvement of leaders. They can go into church and sit in silence without the involvement of a leader. I am not saying that this is how all churches should be operated. Their core believes are admiral though. In churches such as Struthers you are also being subjected to the pyschological personality of the leader and to their own points of view. This is in danger of being meglomaniac with over inflated ideas of their own power and self esteem, unless they are willing to listen, explain and invite questions, no one person has all Gods answers. Go in pease and keep questioning.
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yes, what I would love personally is for a beautiful, low key miracle involving grace and God's still small voice to bring about His will in every aspect of this situation


love to all



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2012 06:34PM by squareone.

Thanks for all your posts. Squareone mentions how there was an incremental lessening of strictness re the rules and regulations, while he/she was in SMC. I hope this is the case. I agree that there have been changes from past years when there were rules like no TV, no fashion, no foreign holidays, hobbies or sports etc.
Petitor, I like your query regarding foreign holidays. I know that some people felt very guilty about taking one, some went on them and didnt give it a second thought, and some were told by leaders to take a foreign, beach holiday. The rules also seemed to vary depending on which branch-church you were in and how your leader felt about it. Confusing?

I wonder, therefore, if SMC can also now lessen their strictness and rigidity in the realm of meeting with and fellowshipping with other Christians from other churches. Most other churches that I know, meet together, have joint gatherings, hold shared conferences, and people have friends who belong to other churches. Churches invite speakers from other christian groups and ministries, both from home and from overseas. This is the norm in the Christian world. Christ said in the Gospel Of John Chapter 17 that He wanted all believers to be one, even as He and His Father are one. He didnt say believers should isolate themselves from one another in small, insular groups.

The justification which SMC gives for isolating itself in this way is their view that other Christians and other churches do not hold to the same standard of holiness as they do in SMC. This is totally untrue. There are many examples of appalling conduct and unloving attitudes within SMC, as this Forum and Latigo have shown and that many of us have unfortunately experienced.

Mandrake, it isnt wrong to have some form of leadership in a church or in any organisation e.g a school. It is how that leadership is carried out that matters. There is excellent leadership in many churches, believe me, and most try to conform to the Biblical model.

Hi Rensil, I hopefully wasn't suggesting that leadership was bad in itself. Leaders of churches though, I feel should be more like quides guiding their members in the ways of Christianity. And as the term pastor suggests leaders should also be concerned with the emotional well being of those they seek to lead. If questions about faith arise out of a sermon then leaders should not be afraid to answer them and quide people on the correct path. The problem with the leadership of SMC is they treated people who questioned or were confused as being critical of God which clearly is not the case. Seeking understanding snd being humble befote Gods' wisdom is not being critical.. A lot of the harm done to members of the SMC, who post on this forum was done to people when they were at a young and impressionable age and seeking to find acceptance within the body of the church. I do not belief that young people should be witness to fire and brimstone sermons where people are denounced from the pulpit but be instead embraced and quided along the path to salvation. SMC leaders should ensure that they have the correct checks and balances in place to ensure that people feel free to talk openly and ask questions without being made to feel that they are not good enough. That is what I was referring to when I mentioned the cult of leadership in a previous post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 09:01AM by mandrake.

the changes I saw weren't in rules and regulations. I had no idea about the rules and regulations until I read about them on this forum and Latigo for the first time a few months ago! The changes I saw but am not sure were genuine were in the way some of the people interacted with me. I can't help wondering if they thought I was involved with what was being said on this forum from the start. But anyway, learning a bit about the mindset of some of the people of Struthers, even if they didn't suspect me of spying for the dark side, helps me understand it all a bit better now and that's thanks to reading the posts on here and Latigo :)

Totally agree with you, Mandrake. This describes exactly how young people including myself were treated by the leaders in SMC. It was very damaging and took time to recover from, emotionally and mentally. And it's still going on...sadly.

That's interesting, Squareone. I wonder if they are worried that people might pass on information to this Forum and to Latigo or if they are afraid that people might leave the church or might not want to stay after a few visits. So they are being ultra-careful about how they interact with people. It could be another form of manipulation to get people to conform and be quiet.