John, you've sadly opened yourself up and I (being no longer afraid to share what I've seen) must comment:

"This coming from the woman that long claimed "only a Realized Being can recognize another Realized Being" (which directly contradicts John's claim that he can "know" his teacher is a "realized being" when even she can't know who is a "realized being" or not).
John: You are putting words in my mouth. The seeker can recognize a genuine Guru otherwise there are no genuine seekers and there is no way of discerning a genuine Guru.

Oh, John. I so appreciate your zest, but this has got to be one of the most arrogant statements I have ever had the poor privelege of reading. That's not an insult, truly; I do believe I used to say as much. Are you honestly telling me I am not a sincere seeker? Please, say that outloud to me... tell me that I am not a sincere seeker, looking for the truth, wanting to know peace and happiness. Yes? Then you are, sadly, much more lost than you know. No? I may be a sincere seeker? Then your statement alone would prove that your teacher, being that I am genuinely and earnestly searching for the truth (and I have left her in a very public and critical way), is a fake. Either you offend me and the majority of people on this planet (that are either not with your teacher or have all but left her) and condemn us as she does, or you must concede that either a) your teacher is not genuine, or b) there is no such measure at all.

"Her lineage is that of Andrew Cohen (look up his "legacy" within the Rick Ross Forum or search for accounts of his former students found on the web), and Gangaji (who readily and publicly admits that she was commissioned to go forward as a guru long before she felt she was ready, having later to apologize for telling people to "destroy their personal stories"). The teacher we are discussing was pronounced the same by her guru, then sent out only two weeks after that pronouncement. Let those of us that realize any "commission" or ability to identitfy a "realized being" as completely impossible to simply allow the facts, for those that can't rely upon reason, to reveal the reality."

John: This is not true. Papaji never recognized either. Swami G's Guru attained realization a year after Papaji's death. He is still active as a Guru. I also know she was in contact with him at least until 2005 because some of the early audio satsangs indicate as much. So she was in touch still at least 5 full years after realization and he never rescinded his acknowledgement. I remember also in 2008 or 9 her saying she was still in touch with him.

What isn't true? FACT: Papaji recognized Andrew Cohen as "realized". FACT: Papaji recognized Gangaji as "realized". FACT: Papaji recognized your teacher's guru as "realized". FACT: Andrew Cohen's legacy is beyond dangerous (look it up), Gangaji (watch her BATGAP interview) admits to what I said above and you have never met your guru's guru, so you can't speak to any "knowledge of character". FACT: your teacher claims that her guru is retired and not taking new students. FACT: your teacher's guru is, in FACT, still giving satsangs and meeting with students. Even you could join in if you wanted! FACT: your teacher has wrongly proclaimed "realization" (by her very admission) at least 10 (I forgot about one sage, Ashima, that she once proclaimed as well) times, IF NOT MORE. FACT: the very FACT that she can, admittedly, not see "problems" until later MUST INCLUDE HERSELF (or does she get a free pass from all critical analysis? Does she not say that her teaching should be able to stand up to criticism? What do you think this is?). DO YOU SEE? By the ways you measure others you MUST measure her, as well.

The teacher in this thread followed (by video) and then met, many years ago, a guru named Nithyananda. She publicly (you can find her comments on the web) proclaimed him as a "great realized being" doing great things in the world. Only after his own scandals became public did she suddenly take to critcizing him. Again (for John and others who wish to believe they can "know" their teacher's realization), her failure to "recognize" a "realized being" has proven completely inadequate, ineffectual and impossible.

John: Is it possible you are confusing Guru's respect for Nityananda the Avadute with her distain for the contemporary Nityananda? Regardless the teacher has said many, many times that she can be fooled for a while. If you discovered that someone you once respected was doing disreputable things, would you remain silent out of fear of seeming "inconsistent?"

I actually laughed out loud. (Thank you, by the way, for correcting the name. You are correct that it was the latter than she has taken to criticize.) "If you discovered that someone you once respected was doing disreputable things, would you remain silent out of fear of seeming "inconsistent?" YES! A RESOUNDING YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you think it is that I am here doing? Passing the time? Do you think that I'm here because I have nothing better to do? Because I am "lost" or "hell bound"? Nope. I am doing precisely what you describe... and you described it beautifully. Actually, more than I'm sure you are aware of, your point proves so much ... it could almost be considered a Freudian slip, a work of God, a miracle ... but, let us remain reasonable. Do you honestly think your teacher is the only one worthy or able to crticize glaring inconsistencies? She demands as much, and now the tables have been turned. Karma? How about "consequences of behavior"?


12. There was a favorable student, one near and dear to her heart, that once attempted to break free from her (said teacher wanted this person to leave their state / residence and move cross country into her home with her). When the person all but refused, she went to her home (in WA.) and demanded that she return with her or be kicked off of the path for good. Is this a choice or a threat? Said person travelled with the teacher, on the back of her motorcycle, and moved in to the teacher's home; leaving behind her home and her family.

John: I am still in touch with this person. This is not accurate. She did not leave either behind, in fact she is visiting them now.

John, your naivety is staggering. I WAS there. Present when she went, present when she didn't want to return, present when her teacher demanded she return, present when she returned in a mess (and, in my not so humble opinion, she has never truly recovered from). Present in person? No, but in regular contact with your guru who has forgotten the details she shared with me. She has forgotten so much!

14. Said teacher now refuses to give one to one guidance to anyone that is either a) not a renunciate, b) not planning on becoming a renunciate, or c) not paying for her counseling service (again, does she have a license to practice?).

John: How are you in a position to know anything about what is offered at this point?

Do you honestly believe people in that group don't reach out to those of us that left? Both you, the ardent seekers, and your teacher would be surprised at the amount of dissent in your group and the ways in which these people are desperately seeking for an escape. I'll gladly stand in front of them if they choose to leave. Your teacher can take her aim, but quietly sit down I shall not; I was silent long enough.

15. Said teacher speaks to "unwavering devotion and surrender" to her, the guru. Said teacher never could stay with one teacher, one teaching or one ideology throughout her entire journey. Her last guru she was with for no time at all... and then he commissioned her ... blah blah ... the rest is stated above.

John: Again not accurate. Guru always held him in the highest regard. She always spoke and still speaks of him with the utmost respect, as the most important teacher she ever had. His picture often appears in many of her videos.

I have great respect and understanding for you, John. I understand how difficult it is to be honestly critical of your teacher. The fact is there are hundreds of stories out there from people that have left, all similar in tone and circumstance. The fact is your teacher is the common denominator in those stories (or are we all now demons and ego maniacs?). The fact is your teacher spent less than even a few months with her teacher (and no time what-so-ever since) and yet she is demanding your unwavering devotion. The fact is she has never been with one teacher, one teaching or one ideology for one. The fact is that guru is the only claim to fame she has because he "gave her realization". The fact is without that claim and without her title, her actions and behaviors reveal the truth of something you aren't prepared to accept.

I'll be here (not necessarily on this board, but out in the world living my life ... quite happily now, much to your teacher's insistence that none will ever be happy again if they leave her). I've got your back. Carry on.

Holly
xo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2013 07:04AM by diddly.

Thats so true about the counsuling sessions I was there when she said damn I have to go stare at the screen for another half and hour to listen to forgot exactly how she put it but believe me it was like she was having to pull her teeth for money...

Well let me respond to two (or three) posts at once here and (hopefully) leave it at that.

Quote
rrmoderator
diddly:

Thanks for offering balance to the mantra recitation on this thread provided by diehard devotees.

Your shared information is illuminating and the questions you ask are thought-provoking.

I don't expect Swami G. will provide any paperwork publicly on this thread or anywhere else on the World Wide Web.

I think it is a bit unfair to start with the derogatory "you're brainwashed" innuendo directed at one poster in this and the previous post simply because that person stated they noted nothing improper. How is this necessary and how does it clarify anything? Apparently there is only one "right" answer you're looking for here. I think it might be time for me to recognize the futility if arguing in a forum where the moderator is hostile (shouldn't they be neutral?), and say "adios" after this post.

I don't know what you mean by "balance" but only one person on this thread has been providing a viewpoint contrary to the majority lately.

I see this (Rick Ross) site solicits donations and I'm wondering if the owners and financial beneficiaries of this institute here would be willing to publicly provide all of their (independently audited) financial documentation and tax statements. Surely this is already available, and I just haven't been able to find it. Is there anywhere this can be found?

Again, people can think what they want but Holly's post is, in my opinion, inaccurate and slanted by hard feelings.

Quote

She prohibits that anyone read ANY spiritual book, religious book or philosophical works OUTSIDE of her limited list (which has about 10 books or less). What books DOES she approve? Of course her own, then those that speak to "crazy wisdom" or hold what she views as "like her teaching". This is called CENSORSHIP and TAKING AWAY OF BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS. North Korea limits what it's citizens are allowed to read, watch or be exposed to. All in the name of a "better society". Your teacher says her list, which you are FORBIDDEN to stray from, is to "limit confusion". It is true, what she is saying, because her teaching doesn't stand up to the rest and if you were allowed to reason for yourself, you'd eventually come to the same conclusion. She is acting as nothing more than a dictator, only you've ascribed to it "holyness". Also, if you read them (and have the guts to admit to it), you're excommunicated from the group.

ANY spirtual book? The Bible is not on the "list" and I don't feel compelled to avoid reading it. The Brother's Karamazov is very spiritual and I'm enjoying it right now. Yes the reading on enlightenment/spirituality was guided. I never saw anyone "excommunicated" for anything they admitted to reading.

Suppose there was a teacher that taught a rare and difficult form of kung-fu. If they are going to teach you their kung fu, they ask you, if you agree to be their student, not to practice other forms of martial art that contradict this style as it may impede the progress you are making in this style. Would you call them censorious if they refused to be your teacher and told you to leave the dojo because you insisted on creating your own style? Or suppose there is a guide, and he or she agrees to take you to a mountaintop by the fastest way they know, but only if you don't take side trails that waste time, could be dangerous, etc. Would such a person be censorious if they refused to be your guide after you insisted on taking side-trails halfway up? A teacher has a right to stop teaching someone just as a student has a right to leave their teacher. I don't know where you've been but the Guru recommends and encourages people to read absolutely everything ever "written" by Ramana and I practically have. There were a wide variety of recommended authors completely unaffiliated with the Guru: Jon Kabat Zinn, Cheng Yen, Sharon Salzberg, Nonomura, Calvin Malone, Robert Adams, Buddha's Dhammapada, and others.

I recognize and respect their authority on ALL spiritual matters as much as anyone's, and I respect the spiritual authority of my own heart (the guru within) as much as anyone else's.

Take a look at other recognized spiritual paths. In those an Abbott of a monastery might go through everything in a Monk's cell, or review a list of a monk's possessions. In the case of some seminaries I have heard of the preceptors actually reading through seminarians correspondences. Have you ever heard of anything that extreme with this teacher? Not even close.

And this idea that reading is "controlled" is inaccurate on another level as the teacher has had groups where it is understood people read and practice whatever they like but are expected not to bring outside practices/dogmas into the forum. Would a teacher be dictatorial for insisting that the subject taught in a particular classroom is mathematics and not sociology?

I read a tremendous amount of books and scholarship, mythology, poetry, etc. -- whatever I like, and I am an avid reader of fiction and other literature. I watch whatever movies or programs I like. Doesn't sound like North Korea to me.

As for the sharing of private information. NO details whatsoever about anyone's counseling were ever made available to me or, to my knowledge, anyone who the counselee was not fully aware of ahead of time. As for the suicide, this information was posted long ago in a different forum and I ran across it while ago doing my own due diligence (I can't find the link now but maybe someone else can and post it, and I strongly encourage anyone who works with a teacher to to extensive due dilligence first). The Guru gave a lengthy reply and explained just how concerned she was for this person's safety -- and emphasized this to the individual's caretakers. For the rest I can't remember anyone stepping forward to say that the teacher did criminal harm (or any harm outside of hurt feelings) to them or anyone they love.

Yes I have been to an outside, unaffiliated counsellor (no not a cult counsellor) since associating with this teacher. Of course I've been to an MD. I also attended other religious events (for example Catholic mass). I think, too, there is some exaggerating going on here.

As for finances, I can only say there can only be very little coming in. I have asked questions on my own and received answers to my own satisfaction. If others feel they cannot do so then there are other paths and other teachers out there and they are encouraged to follow them, or simply do their own reading and put things together on their own. We were never told there is only one valid spiritual modaltity or only one teacher for everyone. . . time and again there was emphasis on the adage "different strokes for different folks," or words like "maybe its time to go do something else."

Holly, many others who have left don't carry with them such bitterness. I wish you the best. It was sad and hard for me to see you leave. You say "sent to hell" and all that. . . I did not hear anyone say anything about "sent to hell" and as for leaving, well, it is such a common occurrence there is a whole protocol publicly posted. I just don't understand, but its not my place to question your reasons. You have a right to them.

I think you have the wrong idea about me living in fear or something but I can only say I certainly don't feel that way, but, you will believe what you will.

--JL

P.S. I think I have said enough here. I have no interest in engaging in the "he said she said" merry go round. I choose to leave what Holly posted after I wrote this (see above) go unanswered and let what is said here suffice. There are a lot of what I consider to be inaccurate statements after the word FACT but it does not take much brainpower to evaluate their veracity given the information age, so I'll just let others do their own legwork (that's how it should be, no?-- everyone should carefully investigate things for themselves).

And thanks for your concern but I have my own back, Holly. I wish you a life of joy and happiness.

As far as tables turning, time will tell, and the truth will prevail, and may it prevail.

Peace to all.

shes putting out a writing on what its like to be realized lol how smooth she is quoting ramana shes on high alert now .

Holly, I am glad that you are speaking out with courage and detail. I was not a member of your former guru's group but watched a great many of her videos over the last 3+ years and at one point even sent her a small contribution. I was and continue to be interested in Buddhist philosophy, living in the moment, mitigating ego, dealing with anxiety and excessive thinking, meditation techniques, etc., and so found some value in the guru's videos, especially those excerpted from satsangs and where she provides some actual instruction. But then I started noticing some quite concerning attitudes, behaviors and statements by Swami G.

What most concerned me were, as you say, the contradictions. Of course, she stresses the need to kill off the ego. Let go of self-referential, self-aggrandizing, ego-driven spin. But then much of what I have seen her express, especially in the last year or so, has been extreme ego. Lots of self-referential, defensive egocentric talk about how she's not being treated in the way that she deserves to be treated by her followers. The final kicker was the video in which she scolded her followers for not celebrating her birthday with the adulation and excitement that she apparently deserves. This, despite what appeared to be a very nice celebration in her honor. What also has concerned me, as you also reference, is her overarching and bold condemnations of psychology and psychotherapy. A relatively recent video was, in fact, rather disturbing in its contradictions and what struck me even as a bit of paranoia. What is she so worried about? Why should people in need of psychological counseling and therapy not get it from a licensed professional?

The cell phone cover "infomercial" video, the interior design services commercial, the odd karaoke videos, etc., do strike me as strange. But hey. At least she is creative and these activities are bringing her happiness. I can't, however, see Gangaji peddling handknit tea kettle cozies to her followers. But who knows? Maybe Swami G will start a trend. (Pema Chodron "PEMAnto" loaves anyone?!)

I disagree with you a bit on your assertion that she may be practicing medicine or psychology without a license. You may be right, but sadly, in this country, religious leaders have tremendous leeway in cloaking as spiritual direction and counseling what otherwise would be viewed as medical and psychological treatment. You make a compelling point, however, about what appears to be a stark contradiction. If she is suffering so much psychologically that she is still entitled to VA disability benefits (from PTSD), then how could she claim credibly to be a realized guru free of thoughts, mental suffering and spin? And if she truly is a fully realized guru free of mental suffering and spin, then how is she still entitled to her mental illness-related benefits? That does strike me as a compelling argument. It may, however, have a good and exonerating answer. Gurus, after all, are human beings, no? They are confined in bodies, with brains that are subject to the same organic maladies that affect many of us. So can they not both be enlightened as well as in treatment for bodily diseases? Could be. Still, you pose a fair question. You also raise interesting questions about her sources of funding, and most importantly her treatment of followers. It does appear to me that she is entirely hostile to any questioning whatsoever, even if the questions are genuine and rooted in compassion and good will.

Finally, I congratulate and thank you for your courage. I am glad that you are finally speaking out with honesty and openness. You seem to recognize, finally, that you bear some responsibility here. You were one of Swami G's most eloquent and forceful advocates. And you questioned and responded rather forcefully and aggressively to people even on this thread that raised some of the same concerns you are raising now. In earlier videos with Swami G, you appeared to be striving to please her. To be the best sadhaka in the world. Perhaps even competing with your peers in the group. At one point it even appeared to me that there was a one-on-one race to realization between you and another follower. (I might have misperceived and if so I apologize.) Later, in a second BATGAP interview, you repudiated so much of what you'd previously said, and basically conceded (surprisingly and disarmingly) that you were "full of it." (I think those were your words. Apologies if I am misremembering.) But you were still following the guru. Then, once you broke with Swami G, you posted on your personal blog some rather cryptic (and frustrating) language about your experience. But finally here you are opening up and sharing your experience, where you went wrong, and how you've finally seen the light. For that, thanks and congrats. I think you did, indeed, owe those of us watching, observing a correction of the record and a ventilation of facts.

I do recommend, however, that you be mindful of what MAY be a tendency on your part to swing from extreme to extreme. Do you tend to view things in black and white? All or nothing? Up or down? In or out? It strikes me that you might. My take, as a total outsider, is that Swami G means well. She has tried to share her knowledge with the world. She has tried to relieve suffering. She has succeeded in helping many people to varying degrees (no?). But no one is perfect. We are drawn in shades of gray. Her attitudes, affect, behaviors (I am so with you on what a bad harbinger poor treatment of waitstaff and store clerks can be) appear to be troubling. Some of her statements contradictory. Her egotistical, attention-getting persona a rather blatant contradiction to the teaching. And her treatment of psychology, independent thinking, honest questioning, etc., very, very alarming. She has good parts and bad parts to her being. As do you. As do I.

Think Mehta.

Some questions, please?... Would you please talk about Swami G's relation to Guru Siddhananda and the young Asian woman with whom she apparently lives? Is Siddhananda still a guru? Is she being groomed as her successor? I don't quite understand the connection. Also, is the young Asian woman (whose name I wish I remembered and apologize for not doing so) one of Swami G's counselors? I remember a video where Swami G gives a tour of a counseling office that her design service designed for her. I was confused about that connection as well. They seem like very kind and very sweet people. I hope that they are well and not suffering.

Also, what exactly is the religion or path that Swami G practices? Is it Hinduism? Is it Buddhism? Is it a blend? I've been a bit confused in trying to follow her videos. It appears to me that she takes an eclectic approach, yes?

Many thanks, very best wishes, and peace to you!

Icarus

Hi Icarus,

I appreciate your post. It is well thought out, considerate, fair and balanced. Thank you for it.

Yes, I will readily admit to be in "discredit mode". In fairness to both myself and the teacher, I was long in "credibility mode". Allow me to explain a few things in more detail.

1. Her group is set up to not only give the teacher adoration and praises, but to discourage any crticism within it. While critics have certainly voiced their concerns within her group and to her, their concerns have never been met with accountability (instead, making them about the student / their ego / their issues / their disorders / etc) and, unless the critic apologizes or gives in, they are literrally sent away with a condemnation ("Grace is lost to you." "You are in a hell realm or will end up there." "You will suffer grave karmic consequences for going against the guru", etc, etc, etc). I wish I were exaggerating those examples, but they are used readily and frequently. With that in mind, can you imagine how you must behave around the guru? Is it really any wonder why I would act so adoring, so admiring and was so willing to go along with whatever she said?

2. When I first left her group, it was not only hard leave because of her public condemnations in her group (I received the usual condemnations listed above, as well more), but I had long viewed the teacher's and groups ability to publicly attack, belittle, mock or condemn those that may take to sharing their concerns in a public way. Given that, I took great pains to try to share with the general public (quite shocked by my leaving the teacher) and those past or present students in her group without sharing too many details. In other words, I was attempting to share of my process of coming to my own understanding without giving an opening for her attacks. I failed miserably and have since removed those writings.

3. I, too, agree that no one person is all good or all bad. However, given the setup of the teacher and her group, she gets to escape accountability for her behavior and actions by a) making the guru as untouchable ("The ego is doing that", "There is no one here", "You are projecting your own drama", "You are delluded", etc etc etc), b) saying she allows criticisms while condemning those that do (people quickly learn to keep their mouths shut), c) rather than address the concerns / actions / behaviors in a way befitting of accountability, she uses the above methods to avoid (time and again) ever addressing any of them and they continue on (getting worse as time goes on). Given that, these are concerns long denied, ignored and all but keep secret which have never been addressed in satisfactory ways. While it doesn't mean she is "evil" or "all bad", the fact is she sets herself up as "untouchable and holy". I simply know of no other way to bring up the glaring concerns without giving her yet another way to try to escape them. Does that make sense?

4. The simple truth is she is just not qualified to teach, lead or guide. The sad fact is that in order to prove that, you have to use the things people who have been with her or are with her have been too afraid to question, hold her accountable for and promptly give back to her as her own problem and her own behavior. For seven years I lived taking her behavior as a reflection of something I was doing wrong. That's insane! This is me saying "This is your behavior. This is what you have done. I speak for those too afraid, for fear of hell, public humilation, losing Grace or facing your wrath once again." I know it isn't pretty. I'm sorry for that.

5. I have a lot of soul searching to do, amends to make, questions to answer, and wrongs to right. This is only the beginning. I'd ask that you remember I only left her 3 months ago, after 7 years of ever increasing problems, and this is what it looks like. Balanced? Likely not. Honest? Yes. Pretty? Not even slightly. Where I am right now? Most certainly.

As for your direct questions:
~ As far as I know she is still grooming Siddhananda for gurudom.
~ The asian woman still lives right near her, working in a rehab clinic as a counselor (of all things).
~ I love both of the women listed above (and all that remain). I can even say that I love the teacher. She did many kinds things for me (which also added to the conflict in staying and then leaving). What I don't love is her behavior.
~ I'd say she leans primarily towards Advaita, with strong Hindu influences. (Kali, the destroyer, is her declared embodiment) But, as with her art, it is really more of a hodge podge from a variety of modalities, ideologies and philosophies; aplty fitting her own journey through the same.

Warm regards,
Holly
xo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2013 09:52AM by diddly.

Dear Holly,

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful reply. All I can say is that I understand so much better now what you have been through and where you are now. You've helped me to understand. I get it now. If anything, you are a whistleblower. And that's a very honorable and noble and honest, albeit perhaps scary, thing to be. Please know that I have enormous respect and admiration for you. You are so very smart and well-spoken. I am sorry that you had to go through what you went through for seven years. But please think of the good you are now doing by speaking out, warning others, and acting -- truly -- with integrity, honesty and transparency. You are to be admired and emulated. It sounds like what you went through was an awful lot of manipulation and mind control. Quite sad. But now you are free, and helping others.

A big hug to you.

Icarus

Hi XRohan,

(Puntuation added by me)

Thats so true about the counsuling sessions. I was there when she said: "damn, I have to go stare at the screen for another half and hour to listen to...", forgot exactly how she put it; but, believe m,e it was like she was having to pull her teeth for money...

I know. It's hard thing to have to witness her contempt for her students and those paying her for her services. I had to witness the same hundreds of times. Which speaks to Icarus' point above (about striving and rushing and all the follies I long did). It becomes a "I'll do better, guru! We'll give you more! We'll make it better and be better students for you!". I'm sorry that you had to go through that; I know how difficult it is. The thing to remember is you gave what you could, whether or not she was appreciative of that or not does not diminish your striving, your earnest seeking and your bettering yourself (in ways that are most certainly unncessary to fulfill her changing desires and long standing disappointment in her students). And these good people have all given what they could, paying good money for it all. Whether or not she thought them "worthy" is her judgment, so you need not carry that in your heart.

Be well.
Holly
xo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2013 12:54PM by diddly.

Posted added twice by error.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2013 12:54PM by diddly.

Hi Diddly;
you really explain well what goes on in groups where leaders are considered in one way or another to be the voice of God.
Great posts, and to my mind you come from a very reasoned and reasonable point of view. To be honest if "criticize the guru and leave the group= go to hell", then it seems like someone else might be having a problem with black and white thinking....
John; is it your opinion (or have you been told) that Diddly will go to hell or have bad karma for publicly criticizing the Guru? Do you believe that you would go to hell or have bad karma if you detailed large mistakes that the guru has made, or is this a safe thing for you to do karmically?
Do you think her students are good to the guru, or do you think that most of them are not good enough and should strive to be better, to deserve her?

(By the way, criticizing the spiritual leader would definitely lead to deservedly bad things happening, or so we were told in my group.. And we were never as spiritual as we should be ,no matter how hard we tried. No matter what we did the leader deserved better than us. Just interested to see if you live your life by the same fear/shame /devotion dynamic..)
Wishing you all the best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2013 02:30PM by yasmin.