This is for whoever feels compelled to file a complaint with the California Medical Board on Steve Harris with regards to his misprescribing Propofol to unlicensed/untrained employees of several cryonics firms (many across state lines) for the purpose of rendering members unconscious so that they can begin their freezing process. Here is the info:

Go to this link: [www.medbd.ca.gov]

Fill the form out with this info: Steven B. Harris, MD, Lic #G52760. Use the keyword “misprescribing.” Also reference this link: [cryomedical.blogspot.com] Suggest they review everything on the blog referencing Harris. Finally FAX the complaint to the number listed on the complaint form.

Also, make a request to Rick Ross to post this in other areas of his website and encourage those who live in California, Arizona and Florida to file this complaint as well.

Glad to be of service.
There is a lot of info and history in this thread, dealing with the deceptive cryonics salespeople and promoters, and the worst are the Venturists.

The legal definition of DEATH is obviously not to be compared with sexual orientation, that is more manipulation. The cryonics people try to use "death" as a wedge issue. Look, dead is dead, once the body and brain is dead. The courts have ruled on that, repeatedly, including with cryonics. If someone is injecting alive people to kill them, that is called murder or assisted suicide, anywhere in the US.

There is absolutely no shred evidence, or no hint of evidence of "life being restored". Its just empty hype by the cryonicists to sell packages. Anything more than that is religion, and the Venturists admit that. Its a religious belief, not science.
Yes, claiming to restore life without proof is fraud.
Just like when the Raelians claimed cloning without proof for media attention, that was also fraud.

If the Alcor books were open, then people could see what's going on. Its up to the Alcor members to revolt, and kick the bums out. Too bad they can't do it, as the entire board is self-perpetuating.
If some people want to freeze their bodies as a different type of funeral, that is completely different than getting duped with tricky and deceptive sales procedures, and complex financial contracts, which totally contradict the facts in the real documents.

These facilities have to be properly regulated as a cemetary, or the false advertising has to stop. Alcor should not be allowed to use the word "patient" in its sales materials, as its deception because the real documents are honest, there are no PERSONS left, just biological research material donated to Alcor.
And the money is not tied to any frozen research material. (former person)
The fact is those who control that money can do anything they want with it, and they can eliminate the frozen biological research material when they choose, and no one will know anything about it.

The real problem with the cryonics sales people, is the incredible attempts at deception, as a way to tap into the mainstream funeral market.
The abuses at Alcor and other places have been documented at length in many places.

Quote
enoonsti
I want to thank you, Antcult, for writing that last post. It convinced me. Just to make sure I have it down right, let's quickly run through - in chronological order - what you said/insinuated in the last post:


1. Demanding changes in legal definitions and/or moving to another state is "cultlike." (So we should probably keep an eye on homosexuals doing the same thing with marriage, etc)

2. You say, "They bamboozle them with bullshit about living forever" and, though most games come with a "Play again?" option, you point out that "once you are DEAD and they have your MONEY, its GAME OVER." (So anything claiming to restore life is fraudulent)

3. You suggest that Alcor improve their management, open books, and so on. (Thus, they could do their fraudulent activities more effectively/efficiently)

4. The government will find it wise and cost-effective to fairly regulate fraudulent activities. (For example, check fraud is permissible if it is performed by legally certified hucksters)

5. You must be correct because Larry "agree(s) with you 100%"



That makes sense.

I used my real name because I have nothing to hide, unlike many others here.

Anon1:

====================================

This is for whoever feels compelled to file a complaint with the California Medical Board on Steve Harris with regards to his misprescribing Propofol to unlicensed/untrained employees of several cryonics firms (many across state lines) for the purpose of rendering members unconscious so that they can begin their freezing process. Here is the info:

====================================


COMMENT:

Good luck wiith that. All of these people have been pronounced legally dead by some other independent doctor or agency, so that would be "prescribing drugs to be given to a corpse." If anyone actually did clearly wake up and become aware while undergoing chest compression in by a cryonics team in cardiac arrest, it would legally be a case of misdiagnosis of death by the original doctor, and everything would have to stop while the original people were called. Of course, it would take about 30 seconds for the person to become clinically dead again, so even if re-diagnosed as dead, immediately, you'd still have your original problem.

Melody Maxim has suggested that one does not need propofol and yet would not have to with hold chest compressions for long enough to do brain damage and ensure coma, but could do something else instead. I have no idea what, but there aren't many other passive alternatives except withholding oxygen, which does its own damage, and is not easy to do in somebody undergoing chest compressions. Basically it would involve some kind of pre-emptive suffocation-like maneuver.

I have spoken of muscular motions in a cadaver undergoing chest compression, but these alone do not indicate awareness, but are merely a risk factor for it. The reason is that there are plenty of medical resports of movement due to spinal cord neurons in brain dead persons, which have been distressing to transplant teams. But the person remains legally dead.

[jama.ama-assn.org]
[linkinghub.elsevier.com]

=====================
Anon1:
Go to this link: [www.medbd.ca.gov]

Fill the form out with this info: Steven B. Harris, MD, Lic #G52760. Use the keyword “misprescribing.” Also reference this link: [cryomedical.blogspot.com] Suggest they review everything on the blog referencing Harris. Finally FAX the complaint to the number listed on the complaint form.
=====================

COMMENT:

And I'll let you know if I hear anything from them. The idea that they'd be concerned that some terminally ill person got propofol after their heart stopped and they were declared dead by the hospice personnel, when the standard alternatives are to then suffocate, embalm or cremate, is amusing. When you make your "complaint" make sure that you indicate what you're demanding as your alternative.

Steve Harris, MD

Quote
The Antcult
If some people want to freeze their bodies as a different type of funeral,

That's exactly what I wanted to do. I didn't care about the resuscitation/rejuvenation part anyways. I just wanted the people to keep refilling my dewar with LN2 and saying, "enoonsti is lost, but cannot be forgotten."

Harris said: "All of these people have been pronounced legally dead by some other independent doctor or agency, so that would be "prescribing drugs to be given to a corpse."

Anon1: Oh really? Would you care to explain the tape recordings on this website [www.frozenbook.com] , where two cryonics employees talked about injecting a live person with a drug to kill him?

If someone wants to freeze their dead corpse, or their DNA, or stem cells, that is completely different than the salespitch from Alcor, Venturists, and the other cryonicists.
Why?
Because they pitch a 150K insurance bait & switch, and where is all that money going?
Now they say they are "investing" half of it?
And guess what, the 150K is only step one, that is the pre-sale. Now they are upselling their bogus "trusts" and telling people to give them their entire ESTATE which could be worth millions, and then they will "invest" it for ya, and when you wake up in 3029 you will be richer than Bill Gates and rule the world.
Oh yeah?

That is a total SCAM. Its a proposed swindle.
They just want you to turn over your Estate, which could be 1 million and much more to them, then they can do what they want with it, as you are dead dead dead.
There is no "person" anymore, they are legally dead.
They can do anything they want with it, as its been turned over to them.

Its a shameless financial scam, and most people know that of course. So they are targeting who? Suckers with delusions of immortailty?
So its all the upselling and manipulation, the promises of Immortality. Its already PROVEN in this thread where the Venturists are plotting strategy to tap into religious feelings of people for marketing.
There is a small group of very very shady professional "salesmen" and entrepreneurs who have taken over the cryonics sales business, and they are named in this thread. They want those millions and billions, and they think they can get it in the next couple decades.

There is a big difference between Freezing vs Scamming.

Ya know, its a huge business in the religious sect and cult game, to aquire a person's Estate when they die. This is not a new one.
Job #1 is to separate the FAMILY from the deceased. And the cryonics propagandists are doing that.

If someone wanted to freeze deceased family members, perhaps they should start a new religion, where the family keep frozen family members in the home, like some religions keep their ashes on the mantle, or have a crypt the FAMILY controls. At least those who love the person would care for their remains properly, in most cases.

But notice how the cryonics salespeople know enemy #1 is the family of the person, who they try to turn into the enemy. Many sects and cults do the same thing, to get at the assets.
Its a nightmare, look at all these lawsuits and fights and abuses.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2010 01:01AM by The Anticult.

Quote
The Anticult
If someone wanted to freeze deceased family members, perhaps they should start a new religion, where the family keep frozen family members in the home, like some religions keep their ashes on the mantle, or have a crypt the FAMILY controls. At least those who love the person would care for their remains properly, in most cases.

Precisely. Ashes and frozen family members are analogous in their financial, technical, emotional, and legal aspects.

Harris is waffling, yet again. He did not simply write about "muscular motions in a cadaver," (in his comments on the "Cold Filter" cryonics forum), he specifically referred to signs of "awareness."

In regard to his comments about me, I certainly have never suggested applying "suffocation-like maneuvers" to ANYONE.

Quote
SteveHarrisMD
Melody Maxim has suggested that one does not need propofol and yet would not have to with hold chest compressions for long enough to do brain damage and ensure coma, but could do something else instead. I have no idea what, but there aren't many other passive alternatives except withholding oxygen, which does its own damage, and is not easy to do in somebody undergoing chest compressions. Basically it would involve some kind of pre-emptive suffocation-like maneuver.

I have spoken of muscular motions in a cadaver undergoing chest compression, but these alone do not indicate awareness, but are merely a risk factor for it. The reason is that there are plenty of medical resports of movement due to spinal cord neurons in brain dead persons, which have been distressing to transplant teams. But the person remains legally dead.

Steve Harris, MD

I think enoonsti has it right. Freezing people should be a nation-wide offering for anyone who wishes to be preserved for memory-sake by cryonic firms.

Being that this is a form of internment for the patient corpse then clearly the state needs to oversee things! It makes sense! Why should crematoriums and funeral homes need to be so closely monitored by the state to make sure the patients dead are not improperly taken care of?

Clearly, cryonic firms need the same level of government regulations and record keeping investigation that other death merchants currently have. It's not fair if cryonic corporations have such a great advantage over traditional morticians!

EQUALITY FOR ALL IN THE SAME LINE OF BUSINESS!

I think enoonsti would logically agree...