Sounds like it to me as well Sparky. Sounds like he is outright admitting to it. Does anyone who might read this have any connections to any authorities in Arizona or California? If you listen to those audio recordings on [www.frozenbook.com] they also admit to committing these acts, but I have not heard of any law enforcement getting involved. Is this something that Rick Ross could get involved in? If so, I think Mr. Ross should contact the "frozenbook" author.

Alcor's "Medical Director" Dr. Steve Harris, California Medical License #G 52760 recently admits to utilizing Propofol on their "members." He so arrogantly quotes:

"A conservative dose of propofol is 140 mg, you say. We give 200 mg. There you are. If there are any signs of awareness later, such as eyelid movement or even shivering (not a sign of awareness but certainly a sign of CNS activity), another equal dose is held in reserve. This is probably not likely to be necessary, given the fact that the patient is being cooled and not normally perfused for the duration of action of a single induction dose of propofol (at least 15 minutes and probably more)."

This is incredible that Harris, a physician, would openly admit to this online. Go to this link [www.network54.com] to see Harris's quote, before it is removed.

So if cryonics patients are already dead, why is Harris and cryonics officials concerned about "awareness", shivering and eyelid movement to the point that they have a dose of Propofol ready to inject? This is crazy!

Melody Maxim, who consistantly calls Harris out is shocked that he would open admit to utilizing Propofol. See Melody's post at: [www.network54.com]...

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COMMENT:

Ms. Maxim is hardly shocked , as years ago she worked for a cryonics company where it was her job to inventory medical kits which stocked propofol for use in cryonics patients.

As explained on the other site, the primary purpose of propofol in cryonics is as a brain protective agent (a well-known property of the substance). However, since cryonics members have worried that there is a chance that chest compression and circulation of blood to the brain will cause some return of consciousness (this has been reported in resuscitation cases, during cardiac arrest), propofol also insures that a still-living brain does not regain the sort of awareness that causes reports of near-death-experiences. I personally have never seen any sign of this in cryonics, but the resuscitation literature suggests that it is possible.

How can a person who is legally dead, in cardiac arrest, have a brain that is still alive? That is the routine when patients are pronounced legally dead on the basis of cardiopulmonary arrest (as happens in hospices and many other situations). And NOT only in cryonics. This happens to everyone who dies while being medically monitored, who is pronounced promptly. It requires minutes to hours for the brain to “die” after that point (we really don’t know how long), since biological death is not the same as legal death. The whole point of cryonics and organ donation is that cells, tissues, and organs remain alive for a time after the standard medico-legal system has given up (legal death). In the average person, people simply stand around after that point, while the tissues and cells slowly die. In cryonics, by contrast, something is being done about it.

Pronouncement of legal death in cryonics is not done by a cryonics person, but by the doctor or nurse working for the hospice, or by a paramedic. These people have no vested interest in cryonics, and they’re the ones who make the decision that the person is in cardiac arrest and beyond meaningful help from standard medicine. That is what “legally dead” means; it’s a social definition of a social relationship, like being legally divorced. It’s not meant to be perfectly scientific, in part since it depends a lot on personal choice, and advanced directives from patients and family.

What happens after legal death in cryonics, is an experimental race to save brain cells and information. Anyone who is shocked by this experiment is perfectly free to be part of the control group, where the cells and information are allowed to disappear. Personally, I’ve opted for the experimental group, since the controls are certainly doing poorly, by any standard.


Steve Harris, MD

Ms. Maxim is shocked to see Steve Harris MD persist in publicly describing her activities, at Suspended Animation, in spite of the fact he is already well aware that much of what he has previously posted about those activities was inaccurate.

In the past, Steve Harris MD has gone so far as to falsely accuse me of lying about my credentials and of stealing documents from my employee folder, (including a non-disclosure agreement that never existed), at Suspended Animation. As Harris knows, the person who provided him with this false information hired an attorney and issued a public retraction and apology, after I threatened to sue all of them for libel. Harris works at Critical Care Research (CCR) in California, Suspended Animation (SA) is in Florida. Harris never set foot in the SA facility, while I was there. It was not my "job to inventory medical kits which stocked propofol." That was Kelly Kingston's job, something Harris should be well aware of, since, when he publicly blamed me for needed medical equipment that was not in the kits for a case, (five months after my resignation, no less), I made it very clear that, while I was working at SA, no one had been allowed to open the kits, (much less add anything, or remove anything), other than under the supervision of Kelly Kingston, who was responsible for the inventory of the kits. (Harris might refer to Charles Platt's apology, Paragraph V.)

Regardless, I was indeed aware that propofol was a medication in SA's standby protocol. HOWEVER, it was my understanding this was ONE dose, to be administered immediately after death had been pronounced. I was never made aware of a policy Harris recently described, (on the Cold Filter cryonics forum), which calls for administering additional propofol to a person who shows signs of life, during a cryonics procedure. Anyone who shows signs of awareness is not dead, and it is illegal to perform cryonics procedures on people who are alive. I am truly shocked that Harris would make such a statement, and not seem to realize the implications.

Since Alcor and Suspended Animation frequently allow laymen, with little-to-no medical education or experience, to perform their procedures, I doubt Harris' "experimental" group is faring much better than the "control" group. In fact, judging by some of the case reports I've seen, I would say some of the brains of the cryopreserved were destroyed, (through mechanisms such as inappropriate perfusion pressures), even faster than they would have been had they simply been embalmed.

Melody Maxim

Nice try Harris, why don't you go peddle your snake oil elsewhere? OR go crawl back to your cult leader Saul Kent.

Melmax, All of us on this website including Rick Ross are aware of the shenanigans that are being played out by Harris and his ensemble of whack-jobs. Welcome to this corner of the RR message board, it’s a pleasure to have you post here. Keep up the good work and for keeping this particular cult in check. I love your straightforwardness and your wiliness to call it as you see it. Post here anytime.

SteveHarrisMD, I do not know your specialty in medicine, but I really must think that as a medical practioner you especially would be skeptical to any potential mental "Re-Animation" of brain cells (let alone "memory" which is a whole other ball-of-wax) . Since a California medical license number was provided for you by a poster here, may I assume you are a practicing medical professional? Are you also a medical researcher (i.e., medical scientist)?

I have troubles logically with the entire process. What more do you get from "flash-freezing" a corpse once that corpse is thawed out except "frozen strawberry mush"? (cryogenics 101). The cells rupture upon freezing. Have you or your cryonic lab figured out a solution to this problem? Wouldn't all your current "clients" so frozen be little more than frozen compost...no matter what future technology is developed?

What papers have you produced yet on your cryonic experiments? Are there other papers of cryonic giants upon whose shoulders future cryonic scientists stand? If none (yet) because of the infancy of this (IMO, psuedo-)science then what data are you seeing that gives you any hope of the mental reanimation of the dead?

Have there been any breakthroughs in successful medical reanimation technology of lower mammalian lifeforms prepared under strict cryonic prep?

You see, Occum's razor slices against cryonics until evidence of successful re-animation/memory survival can be demonstrated through the scientific method.

It might be important to mention that Steve Harris was also involved in the suspicious death of Dora Kent in the late 80’s in Riverside California. There is a book called “Mothermelters” written by an ex-Riverside County deputy coroner by the name of Alan Kunsman that mentions Harris from cover to cover. Harris has a long questionable history in the so call science of cryonics or should I say cult. He has an issue with keeping his stories straight. See Melody Maxim's blog for some history on Harris at [cryomedical.blogspot.com]
He is also the person mentioned in the Johnson book FROZEN about torturing animals.

Oh and yes he is an MD, you would think he’d know better.

Some mod here should change the title of the thread. It should say "Legit" (short for legitimate), not "Ligit".

With regards to administering meds and starting the cryopreservation process before "legal" death, I am all for it in MY case, and I would be upset with anyone who interfered with my personal choice of how I pass from a normal healthy animated state into "legal death" or cryopreservation. I would especially want to go into preservation early if I had some brain disease such as Alzheimer's or Parkinson's. Tragically, these diseases steal your identity, memories, and personality. The whole purpose of cryonics to to preserve the individual.

The current legal framework surrounding "legal" death is centuries old (from the Middle Ages, seriously). If and when the time comes when I need cryopreservation services, I would hope the legal system has been modernized enough to allow for a quick and effective preservation. If not, I will have to move to Oregon where people are more enlightened about life and death and allow for personal choices.

Welcome, Justin Loew. You are looking forward to memory preservation. What evidence have you been presented with that this is a possiblity and/or fact? I have yet to have anyone explain how the process is supposed to work, especially the "thawing" process and cell rupture.

You should be able to do as you wish with disposing of your corpse, but I think full disclosure and outside medical/scientific investigation of techniques used need to be examined.

Many on this forum (and others) are questioning not just the validity of the core science (as is my big thing) but with ethical and questionable behavior of the companies involved in the marketing of their "services".

Don't get ripped off.

I don't plan on getting ripped off. That is why I visited Alcor recently. I toured the facility and talked with most of the personnel and reviewed their operations from start to finish. I found the facilities managed well. The staff was friendly. The equipment seemed state of the art (for 2010 cryopreservation) - using modern perfusion machines and surgical equipment.

I asked about the chance that the company would go bankrupt. It turns out that about half of the suspension cost is for a patient care trust fund - that is managed separately from the company and by a separate Board of trustees. So if the company goes bankrupt, there is still money to help maintain the suspended people. They openly acknowledged the past mistakes of previous cryonics companies and seemed determined to not repeat them.

For those of you who are worried it is a cult, I found nothing different there than what is presented on the website. There was nothing religious going on. Nothing mystical. There was no secret handshake. No fancy incantations. No underground chanting chambers. No futuristic outfits. No worshiping of any invisible deities.

What is going on is highly speculative science and engineering. It is a fair criticism that suspending and reviving a whole humans currently beyond our technological capabilities. That doesn't bother me as much as others, I think, because I tend to be more open-minded toward new ideas. The Upis beetle can be frozen down to -100 and revived and remain in perfect health. That is enough evidence for me that human cryopreservation is within the realm of the possible.