The reality is that many people are trying to cash in on death, to some degree. Your loved one dies, and they are trying to sell you a Cadillac box, when a pine box is cheaper and better for the environment. Your cat dies, and they want to sell you a $10 container for $300 for the ashes, after spending thousands at the Vet.
(now the cryonics companies are cynically taking it further, and trying to convince Boomers to freeze their pet Fluffy, and rip them off for that too.)

But are the others in the funeral industry asking for you to sign complex contracts, donating your bodily remains as research material, and transfering 150K, or your entire million dollar Estate like a cryonics company in some bogus fake "trust"? No they are not.
Are they suing family after family, in a fight for the corpse and the assets?

In reality, the cryonics companies would have to follow the legislation around their using deceased human bodily tissue, but the reports are they have not been following those rules.
But the bodily tissue is not a person, so the cryonics company has no obligation whatsoever to keep the body as is. One would imagine they can do anything to the bodies that a medical school could do, like slice and dice, and then bury the parts in an unmarked mass grave, like medical schools.
Why are the cryonics companies always trying to cover that up, and deflect from that, with their bogus glossy brochures about Immortality, and "patient care"? Its salesmanship.

And there is definately a culty aspect to cryonics, and not just a counter-cult aspect.
As shown many times, there are some very very shady characters who are trying to use cryonics to build a billion dollar business for themselves, and they will control that money.
Then they will build Ventureville, and lure elderly people there to live, and then use high-pressure sales tactics to get them to sign over their assets, and the fights go on.
The way cryonics is being sold by the main players at present is as a financial swindle, and they are using all sorts of persuasion techniques to manipulate people in a cultlike manner. Its true.

Quote
Sparky
I think enoonsti has it right. Freezing people should be a nation-wide offering for anyone who wishes to be preserved for memory-sake by cryonic firms.

Being that this is a form of internment for the patient corpse then clearly the state needs to oversee things! It makes sense! Why should crematoriums and funeral homes need to be so closely monitored by the state to make sure the patients dead are not improperly taken care of?

Clearly, cryonic firms need the same level of government regulations and record keeping investigation that other death merchants currently have. It's not fair if cryonic corporations have such a great advantage over traditional morticians!

EQUALITY FOR ALL IN THE SAME LINE OF BUSINESS!

I think enoonsti would logically agree...

Of course I agree! Suggesting ambiguous regulation is always a good off-the-cuff idea, and it's a great way to prevent cryonics NPOs from performing cryoprotective perfusion in their own facilities. Not to mention abandoning all those other magical elixirs, and replacing them with incantations! That would help drive down costs to maintain equality in this same line of business. So we need to keep up the good fight for regulation, gentlemen. Hold!!!

I want to be nice and civil about this. I do hope this is the kind of forum I'm on. I'm 28 yrs. old and have a suspension contract. I also have an irrevocable trust with a cryonics agency that I had a legal aid review. The one I consulted with is really good. She told me it was one of the best trusts she had ever seen. With that said, pursuing a cryonic suspension was an individual choice that I made. To be honest with you, I looked them up.

I've experienced the loss of close loved ones and slowly after each loss, I began to realize what they had gone through with the funerary process. If you ask me, I'd say it's pretty greusome and degrading. It's not hard to see that medical science will progress far past anything we see today. To say otherwise would be foolish. All scientific endeavors and experiments started somewhere and a lot of them where ridiculed in the begining.

Cryonics gives an individual a choice. Cryonics Agencies do not advertise a lot. It's typical for people to find them on their own. I've studied the science behind cryonics. It's pretty simple: reduce cell crystalization as much as possible in the hopes that future technology can repair what cell damage you encountered during your legal death and the freezing process.

Cryonics agencies treat and handle the body with care, precision and patience. I don't see this in a funeral home. All I see is a quick fix for a show and getting you in the ground before you start stinking up the place. Look at what cryonics offers; a chance. Nothing more. There is obviously no debating the science with you because I already know the skeptics biggest argument: The amount of cells that need to be repaired. Blah. Blah. Blah.

This forum kind of reminds me of the skeptics that would say: "Man can never travel to the moon. It's impossible." You guys shouldn't want to slow scientific progress. If anything, you should wish us the best. One day the discoveries made in this field of science will benefit you, your children, grandchildren and so on. There is really no stopping it.

Space exploration may one day depend on what cryonics agenices are researching and developing today. Cryonics is a part of your future whether you guys like it or not.

A lot of what "CryoGirl" wrote makes little sense to me. For instance, she says that after experiencing the lose of loved ones, she began to realize "what they had gone through with the funerary process," calling it "gruesome and degrading." She also writes, "Cryonics agencies treat and handle the body with care, precision and patience. I don't see this in a funeral home. All I see is a quick fix for a show and getting you in the ground before you start stinking up the place." That's crap, and an insult to morticians and funeral directors, everywhere. At age 28, just how many funerals has CryoGirl been to? Did she go in the back room, and watch as her loved ones were embalmed? How many cryopreservations has she witnessed? What does she know about vascular cannulations and perfusion? Unless CryoGirl is willing to offer up her name, credentials and experience, I'm going to be left with the impression that she is either just another very ignorant, gullible person regurgitating what the cryo-orgs have fed her, or she's a "ringer."

CryoGirl might take note that not all of us object to cryonics, or "want to slow scientific progress." Some of us would like to speed up progress, and see cryonics endeavors carried out in a more professional manner. Rather than having just about anyone off the street pretending to be surgeons, perfusionists, and other medical professionals, we would like to see qualified personnel performing cryonics procedures. We are appalled that organizations spending millions of dollars each year will allow just about anyone off the street perform what they advertise as "state-of-the-art," futuristic medical procedures. As if that were not bad enough, they have been publicly accused of numerous unethical behaviors. Posts such as CryoGirl's make the cryonics arena look even more "cult-like."

I have been monitoring this discussion for sometime, so I figure it’s time for me to throw my hat into the ring. CryoGirl, I believe it’s not the speculative science that is the concern, it’s the certain companies that are involved that are in question.

Deep Space exploration will be most successful through robots, not people. It's much cheaper.

Back to cryonics, this is a YouTube video on cryonics originally submitted to this thread by The Anticult:

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
The Anticult
What the hell is wrong with Ben Best?
Is this guy for real? People listen to this guy?

Best Best's defence of Alcor, comes down to distorting the text of a newspaper headline about "batting practice". Can't he even distinguish between a tasteless phrase written by a newspaper editor, and the facts of the issue?
A newspaper editor trying to be "clever" compared Ted Williams baseball batting career, to the terrible actions taken to remove a used tuna can using a monkey wrench from his frozen head.
He even says using a monkey wrench to try and remove a tuna can is a form of "patient care".
To quote Charlton Heston..."It's a madhouse!... a madhouse!!"

Best Best doesn't deny the use of a used tuna can in cryonics, because that is a fact. There is even a photo online showing this.

QUOTE: "This head has been frozen down to -321 degrees Fahrenheit in the LR-40 and is now being taken out for permanent cold storage. Notice the tuna can stuck to it, the pedestal on top of which the Alcorian will await reanimation in the future"
[SEVERE WARNING, graphic photo] [frozenbook.net]

And as far as the cryonics live dog torture, they have admitted it. One cryonics sadist has bragged that he has done hundreds and even thousands of his Frankenstein live cryonics "experiments" on dogs.

What a pathetic and absurd tactic Ben Best tries to use.
It really is a mad house.

________________________________________

IMO This looks to me to be a little more "disrespectful" to the dead than cremation or burial.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2010 11:28PM by Sparky.

Well, the cryonics guys are getting more cleverer, and are starting to cross-post more anecdotal testimonials to try to sell and market cryonics.
The next step is to hire a small PR company to cross-post non-specific cryonics testimonials at $10 an hour, not a bad idea, they think!

There is no science to current "cryonics" its antiscience.
The financial "trusts" are beyond a nightmare, and the people signing these things, do they have any idea of what they are getting themselves and their family into?
Do they read the massive pile of documents about donating their body as biological research material, or do they read the glossy brochure?


Yes, death is sad. So its also a good marketing technique to trigger emotions of loss, and even the loss of pets. Hey, freezing pets is a good sideline business, and it gets their foot in the door. Good sales technique, get that foot in the door, and upsell to a head-plan, or full-body plan, for a special deal. Freeze the entire family, and you get 10% off.

Cryonics companies advertise in target magazines, and they are increasing their marketing to try and get a piece of the funeral market as they hope to make BILLIONS.
Cryonics companies do NOT handle the body with care, they can totally abuse the remains, as proven time and time again.
They have the right to slice and dice your body anyway they want to, as its biological research material. And no one is going to know anything about it.

Men can travel to the moon and mars, and women too.
But there is NO SCIENCE IN CRYONICS currently.
Point to the peer-reviewed scientific papers on cryonics. Where are they?
(insert nervous pause, then back to the glossy brochure)

Ok back to the cryonics viral marketing channel. Don't forget to freeze your pet fluffy, so they can later upsell you to their bogus cryonics trust, which means, when you die, they take your money, and can do whatever we they to your former body, and spend your former money anyway they want.


And guess what, its an IRREVOCABLE TRUST. "An Irrevocable Trust is one that by its design can't be amended, modified, changed or revoked. In other words, once an Irrevocable Trust has been created, the written terms of the trust agreement are generally written in stone and can't be tweaked for any reason in the future." [wills.about.com]
So all the cryonics salesmen gots to do is hype you up, and get you to SIGN THAT, and then its game-over. You see, it can't be changed as the cryonics company is the beneficiary, correct?

You see how clever the cryonics salespeople are. Once you sign that Irrevocable Trust, then you are screwed and tatooed.
Notice above they say that had a "legal aid review" WTF is that? Someone is going to sign a document that cannot be revoked, without consulting their own attorney?
Are the cryonics salesmen also providing their own "advisors" to look over the papers for you?

This aspect of the cryonics business has not been exposed properly yet, and is really bad.
Which specific cryonics company?
Which specific Irrevocable Trust?
If anyone has access to the full-text of a cryonics Irrevocable Trust, please post it in this thread, or link to where its posted.

This point has been glossed over.
Once the cryonics salespeople hype you up, and get you to SIGN that Irrevocable Trust, then the technical term is...you're fucked.

Ok. I've got a feel for this forum. I've had a cryonics suspension contract since I was 20. I started thinking about it when I was 16. Nobody said cryonics is pretty. You can take any images of death and make them look horrific and attatch any nasty story you'd like to it. I said care, precision and patience. You guys obviously don't know much about cryonics because you wouldn't be on this forum complaining about it. I can name off tons of stories on greusome funeral practices. What? It's simple. People in this line of business have been found stealing body parts, leaving bodies out in the woods to decompose, digging up gaves and reselling the plot. C'mon'. Is Ted Williams' head all you guys have got? Is that your trophey on the mantle? Because if it is, that's weak compared to the things I can show you on the internet.

I didn't even need to have my trust looked at. It was just recommended by the agency. I preferred an irrevocable trust to prevent family members from interferring with my cryonics suspension due to greed or whatever motive they have at the time of my legal death. It is for my protection. A legal aid!!! Whatever!! You guys nit-pick at everything you get your hands on, which is good. I guess you're bored, surfing the net........nothing better to do? You know there are real cults out there you guys really ought to be focusing on. You know, if this forum would have been active at the time, you guys could have probably saved lives by stopping Marshall Applewhite from dragging all those people into committing suicide. You know a forum like this can be a useful tool if it helps to prevent shit like Jim Jones or the Branch Davidians.

Like I said, it's a choice. You guys can prefer the grave all you want or cremation, have yourselves turned into diamonds or have your ashes flown into space. The choice was simple for me: I'm gonna take my chances in a cryostat! You guys can jump in a coffin all you want.

I guess Larry Johnson is your guys' new guru now. I'm wondering if most of you are forming an occult. He seems to have quite a following! How many occults are based on hate and misinformation?

I would hammer out the space exploration topic, but it is pointless. Most of you are stuck on robots.

Yeah, I saw that Penn & Teller episode. It was the 1st time in my life I was ever disappoionted in Penn & Teller! The producers of that particular episode grabbed at anything they could inolving cryonics and their choice was weak.

I'd like to see Penn & Teller come on my side of the playground. They wouldn't stand a chance. They wouldn't even be able to keep up with a real cryonics agency. Don't get me wrong, I like Penn & Teller. I watch their show often. But that particular episode was the worst they had ever done.

The funny thing is, they appeared in a Futurama movie with their heads in a jar!! You know what I say? I call bullshit on Penn & Teller. The more I read on this forum, the more I realize you guys are harmless and are grasping for straws, much like Penn & Teller. =]