Quote
TWrelated
My understanding is the cost was $120,000., plus transportation costs. A $24,000. down payment was made, leaving the $111,000. owed.

Regardless, Ted Williams' body is preserved at Alcor as well.
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Thanks for the information, its important for the facts to be made clear.

Right now the cost is 150K for a full body cryonics process, so it makes sense a few years ago it was 120K-135K, as was charged for Ted Williams.
So they obviously were charging for a full body cryonics process for Ted Williams. (The head only would be well under the current 80K)

So then why did they remove the head, when they charged for a full body?
AND, if they were only going to do a head cryonics, then why did they retain the body?
For a head-only cryonics, the body would be cremated or buried.

So it doesn't make any sense, they charged for a full body for Ted Williams, and then retained the body and the head? Its completely nonsensical.

And who is to say they actually did retain Ted Williams body? No one knows the truth, unless it is proven by DNA tests verified by an external source.
There are recordings where they were talking about using his body as a "bargaining chip", that is the twisted mentality in cryonics.

The only thing that makes sense is what was said in the article above, it was some type of bizarre and horrendous "mistake".
And/or the overzealous "experimenters" just did what they wanted to do, for their own reasons.

Of course, the only point in bringing this up, is to point out the blatant dishonesty being put forward by these cryonics promoters.
This thread, and others, are full of dozens and dozens of proven lies from numerous cryonics people, and incredible deceit in how they promote and sell cryonics.

For example, the sheer nonsense they try to peddle about the "trusts" and leaving money to oneself. That is literally a flagrant scam, its impossible.
They know perfectly well, that once you are legally dead, you legally don't exist, and then they have 100% control of that money. Its a cash grab from naive dreamers.
So to the trained-eye, the tricks they are trying to pull in cryonics financially, are very obvious.

Hopefully this sad series of events will help other people.
And more importantly, the public also needs to learn the terrible TRUTH of cryonics.
That once you PAY to donate your body to a cryonics company, they can literally do ANYTHING they want with it. The truth is not in the fluffy sales brochures, but in the fine print of the text of "donating one's body".
The horrible reality is they can cut your body up into a thousand pieces, and dispose of it, or parts of it. They can do "experiments" on the body, or parts of your body.

The difference between cryonics and a medical school body donation, is that people know what they are getting into, and in that case its actual SCIENCE being done, and they also give the remains a burial.
They also have to follow a series of rules for dealing with human remains.

But even in those cases, there have already been cases where body parts, skin, eyes, etc, were being sold on the black market for huge amounts of money.

Its a very dangerous road to walk down.
When you "donate" your body under that agreement, it has NOTHING to do with cryonics at all. Its amazing and shocking that even cryonics people do not understand that basic fact.
And those who sell cryonics for big money, deliberately distort those facts in the PR marketing, with their fluffy sounding brochures.

If a person really believed in cryonics, they would DEMAND strict regulation, and external monitoring, and everything else you can think of.
But the dozen or so people who run cryonics, want the opposite. They want to keep it all secret and private, and hidden, so they can do what they want. They want everyone signed to non-disclosure gag-orders.

They control the non-profit companies with a self-perpetuating board, so they control millions of dollars, and they want to move it into tens and hundreds of millions.
Where does all the money go?
It goes to hiring and overpaying their untrained buddies and cronies, and hiring themselves, giving "grants" for bogus useless experiments, travel expenses, putting money into investments, paying their cronies to write advertising and articles for cryonics...
Next step will be to analyze their 990 Forms, to see where the money is going.

There was a comment they were going to set up yet another cryonics org, just for cryonics PR. Lots of money will get dumped into that, so they can do even more cryonics spin-doctoring.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2009 03:30PM by The Anticult.

Quote
The Anticult
Thanks for the information, its important for the facts to be made clear.

So then why did they remove the head, when they charged for a full body?

And who is to say they actually did retain Ted Williams body?

Yes, the facts should be clear.

Apparently Alcor was paid for a full body but they mistakenly or by choice did a neuro for its perceived benefits..

Maybe they didn't keep the body, maybe JFK isn't in his grave either. We don't know.

And the difference with JFK or anyone in a grave, is that there are far more protections for someone in a grave, than for someone who is frozen, in unregulated cryonics.
When a person is in a grave, their remains are protected from abuse, and can be exhumed if there are problems.

But once a person is in unregulated cryonics, they don't exist.
The family of a deceased cannot know if they are even still in there.

Its very strange how even some supporters of cryonics who are not in the direct payroll of the cryonics companies, seem to have bought into the non-regulation of cryonics.
Regulation is to protect them.

These organizations can go corrupt very easily.
There were even some cemetaries which went corrupt, and were digging up old graves, to make more room to make more money.
So people need to be protected from the incompetence, greed, and corruption that creeps into these organizations.
This recent book has shown what goes on in there. One would think that "cryonics believers" would be the first who would want to clean things up.

Hopefully, concerning Ted Williams, since there were so many problems with the equipment used, the authorities will verify that he is still there with a DNA test.
His relatives certainly have a right to know what happened.
Maybe some baseball players would fund the fight to get Ted Williams case reviewed?

Frankly, if the entire group of frozen people were analyzed with DNA tests, matched to their "records", the results would probably be far more shocking that anything said so far.
If a full investigation was done of this cryonics company, all the signs point to a travesty of incompetence and gross dishonesty.

In Alcor's case, their "patients" are in effect scientific donations. Once they are given the bodies, Alcor has no obligation to anyone but themselves; the bodies are their property to do with as they see fit. Families have no right to know the status of their relatives.

If they wanted to take the money and run they could open up the dewars, toss the heads and bodies in the dumpster and walk away. (well, body parts in the dumpster would bring some heat)

The practitioners of cryonics are for the most part self-taught wannabe "doctors". Since the companies, people and procedures have little support from the mainstream medical or scientific community (Alcor claims they do on their website, but no professionals work on their preservations except an occasional retired surgeon used for head removal) their methodology is self-developed and self-endorsed.

They claim to be processing people to be brought back to life at some future date, and believe their patients to be not dead at all, in fact, still living.

If that is the case, why would the standards of care be any less than a living person would expect; i.e., trained medical professionals with standards and a code of conduct? When medical people perform badly, there are review boards and consequences.

Why would the standards of care for cryonics patients be any less than those placed on morticians? Morticians are trained and certified, and when they perform badly there are review boards and consequences. And they're processing bodies to go in the ground to rot, not to be brought back to life some day!

The unregulated status of Alcor has allowed them to perform badly with no supervision or consequences believing only in their need for self preservation.

I'm afraid true change, if any, will have to come from cryonics members; but they're too taken with immortality and future revival to accept what's going on in their behalf today.

Well well, thanks to Johnson’s book it looks like Alcor and its followers are starting to implode. Ahhhhh, the smell of sweet success. The following two links says it all.


[www.network54.com]


[www.network54.com]...

Below is a great cover story written by a true crime writer about the Alcorian Cult, Cryonics and the guy who exposed them. I wonder how long this group can continue their questionable actions while under the gun like this?

This article should probably be added to the Alcor Archive.

[www.timespublications.com]

Thanks for the update.
These groups like Alcor can be difficult to stop, because over the years, they accumulate a lot of assets and resources, which is all controlled by the core group, who control the board of directors. So they can hang on and literally sometimes spend millions trying to maintain control as long as possible.

But once a governmental agency goes after an organization for violations, sometimes things seem to happen quite quickly.

________QUOTE______________________
FROSTBITTEN by Shanna Hogan

"After gaining access to Alcor’s inner circle, Larry Johnson has now gone public with several shocking allegations in his book, Frozen: My Journey into the World of Cryonics, Deception and Death."
"During his first few months at Alcor, Johnson says he witnessed senseless animal experiments, the dumping of toxic chemicals in the public sewage system and three gruesome cyro-suspension procedures. As he was thrust deeper into the peculiar world of cryonics, and promoted to one of Alcor’s top posts, he says he became aware of disturbing rumors claiming Alcor’s former president had injected a terminally ill AIDS patient with a paralytic drug to hasten his death.

Motivated by these horrific discoveries, Johnson began taking pictures, copying documents and even wearing a wire while on the job, all in an effort to hold Alcor accountable for what he claims were numerous transgressions."

Alcor Employee: “It was to kill them… to put them down and make sure they stayed that way.”

ttp://www.timespublications.com/dec09-feature1.asp

To the person who knows someone who knows someone who knows Larry Johnson. Please email me. I accidently deleted your email address and I have more questions for you. If what you are saying is true, Alcor is in for a lot of trouble. Make sure those people contact Johnson.

Thanks!

Got some interesting news that I will post here within the next few days. Just want to get my facts in before I post. Looks like more national news about Alcor and its leaders from Johnson is on the horizon. Mr Ross, you're going to like this one.

Anon1

Anon1, you big tease, you! Can't wait to see what you are digging up!