Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: January 22, 2009 09:21AM
I don't know why Bastian is asking for advice. It's obvious that Desteni is self-delusion on the part of those who run it.
Desteni videos and postings are all over YouTube, various web forums and social networking sites. Members of Desteni have been accused of spamming forums. They lack netiquette. Some of these forums, such as "Noble Realms" have ended up banning all posts about Desteni.
[forum.noblerealms.org]
But in all fairness, I don't see any evidence that they are doing the hard sell or persuading people to cough up the dough for classes, seminars or merchandise. It's more about trying to promote their YouTube videos, getting people to engage with the Desteni forum so that they can get more people to take part in "the process".
When members claim they have visited the Desteni Cult Farm and not been asked for money etc, I don't see any reason not to believe them. They seem to be in some quandary about money and are looking at alternative modes of currency... [www.desteni-money.net] [desteni.co.za]
In contrast, many "channelers" on YouTube are far more commercially-oriented than Desteni. For example, Lee Harris and Story Waters, whose videos are basically adverts for slickly produced DVDs and workshops: [uk.youtube.com] Mind you, I'm not saying they're running a cult, as such. Yet.
Darryl Thomas of Desteni claims in this thread that the real leader and true voice of Desteni (as opposed to Sunette, the young woman in the videos), Bernard Poolman, works out of sight, behind the scenes because he does not want to become a popstar guru like Deepak Chopra or Eckhart Tolle.
That idea is absurd, because Poolman is nowhere near as sophisticated as Tolle or Chopra. Bernard Poolman has been described as a Svengali figure, and has placed his protege, Sunette, in that very role of popstar YouTube guru.
Whoever runs "Esoteric Fraud Files" reckons "no cult we have come across comes even close to the evil this woman encourages and applauds". They claim they are going to report Desteni to "the authorities" for publishing offensive content:
[esotericfraudfiles.blogspot.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2009 09:28AM by Sandman.
Desteni videos and postings are all over YouTube, various web forums and social networking sites. Members of Desteni have been accused of spamming forums. They lack netiquette. Some of these forums, such as "Noble Realms" have ended up banning all posts about Desteni.
[forum.noblerealms.org]
But in all fairness, I don't see any evidence that they are doing the hard sell or persuading people to cough up the dough for classes, seminars or merchandise. It's more about trying to promote their YouTube videos, getting people to engage with the Desteni forum so that they can get more people to take part in "the process".
When members claim they have visited the Desteni Cult Farm and not been asked for money etc, I don't see any reason not to believe them. They seem to be in some quandary about money and are looking at alternative modes of currency... [www.desteni-money.net] [desteni.co.za]
In contrast, many "channelers" on YouTube are far more commercially-oriented than Desteni. For example, Lee Harris and Story Waters, whose videos are basically adverts for slickly produced DVDs and workshops: [uk.youtube.com] Mind you, I'm not saying they're running a cult, as such. Yet.
Darryl Thomas of Desteni claims in this thread that the real leader and true voice of Desteni (as opposed to Sunette, the young woman in the videos), Bernard Poolman, works out of sight, behind the scenes because he does not want to become a popstar guru like Deepak Chopra or Eckhart Tolle.
That idea is absurd, because Poolman is nowhere near as sophisticated as Tolle or Chopra. Bernard Poolman has been described as a Svengali figure, and has placed his protege, Sunette, in that very role of popstar YouTube guru.
Whoever runs "Esoteric Fraud Files" reckons "no cult we have come across comes even close to the evil this woman encourages and applauds". They claim they are going to report Desteni to "the authorities" for publishing offensive content:
[esotericfraudfiles.blogspot.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2009 09:28AM by Sandman.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Vladimir
()
Date: January 04, 2010 03:51AM
Quote
Sunny1
I never knew about this specific cult, but for everyone's information there seem to be many UFO believers in conspiracies who believe that people from the government are “reptile” aliens. It really sounds weird I do not know where this ideology originated from. This website tries to further the government conspiracies theories that 9/11 was planned by saying reptile aliens are in control of our government. A lot of the information on the site is hard to find, and very damaging to a youngsters mind and belief system. It is really a lot of bad stuff.
Check out this UFO website to understand the who's who behind these weird claims: www.burlingtonnews.net/interviews.html
Sunny 1 and anyone else....
I wanted to add my two cents.
I've had some odd experiences in my life that moved me to take a deeper look into the whole E.T. phenomenon. I've done my reserch objectively , with an open mind without forming any new belief system I've come accross some details that repeat themselves from various sources which are unconected to each other.
What I've found out so far is that there's several factions of E.T.'s that are observing or assisting this earth. A small number of those factions used to be the puppet masters for what we term as the shady government or Illuminati or whatever you want to call them.
One of these small ET factions appear to have been Reptillians.
I know it sounds ridiculous but if you would check some material such as the ancient Book of Enoch, compare the ancient history of all ancient cultures,Sumeria, and I can go on...Now objectively look at what the current channelers are saying. I realise that many of those channelers that are simply charlattans and just like to hear themselves talk. While others are channeling for real but not necessarily channeling someone with the best interest for us. I scrutinize all of them and consider all of them but don't believe in any.
AS far as Desteni goes....I've considered her and looked into her and not only do I think it's a cult in the making but I actually think it's a potentially dangerous one.
Their philosophy sounds something like convoluded Buddhism with many elements missing.
There's nothing new about her philosophy...you can find similar ideas explained much better in older books of mysticism.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
ThomDarc
()
Date: February 27, 2010 11:51PM
Hi, I'm new here. I just wanted to add in about what I've found about Desteni.
A little while ago I bumped into Desteni Productions on youtube. I watched one of their videos which was more annoying than not. However, I decided to look at a few more and boy was I in for a surprise. After chatting with several members of Desteni on some of the youtube comments page, I was banned. I was really curious as to why they seriously held so many strange beliefs to be true. Also, I didn’t completely understand what in the heck they were talking about. So, I did as one of their members suggested and started going through their website. Needless to say, the Desteni forum is not well organized. The members seem to want you to read through all the material and watch all the mind numbing videos just to get a rudimentary understanding of their teachings. What I’m presenting here is an overview of the Desteni New Religious Movement for those who wish to find out more about them without becoming terribly confused. I will begin with their belief system. It should be noted that members of Desteni maintain that they have no beliefs. They will even go to the point of calling someone else’s beliefs “beLIEfs” as to them all beliefs except their own are in fact lies.
Their Belief System (or Common Sense System)
1) Demons are actually ghosts who died from traumatic deaths
High Priest Darryl Thomas states the following:
2) God and his angels are evil (The Annunaki)
To Desteni, God is known as Anu who belongs to an ancient race of beings known as the Annunaki. Anu and his ilk crafted and created most of the misery now present in the world. Even though, Desteni claims not to blame the creator, it still pictures God as the architect of suffering. God denied humanity freedom through installing preprogrammed behaviors which create and perpetuate suffering. Many of the ideas concerning these beings come from Zachariah Sitchen and Amitakh Stanford (which has been noted earlier in the thread). The Desteni cosmology is more detailed and vast than this, but a more detailed description will not be given here. Regardless, in this context, the passive acceptance of such a cosmology defies reason.
Another idea of God which Desteni states along with other new age groups is that God is one and one with the universe. Therefore, everything within the universe is God. As far as Desteni is concerned, once humanity as a whole reaches a certain level of awareness, all as one will transcend and realize our place as equal to God. However, Desteni does not account for how the universe came into existence and rejects any idea of an external God. In some ways this mirrors Sethian Gnosticism where the Logos (Universe) is either good or disinterested. And Ialdabaoth or Demiurge (Anu) made humanity. Desteni also mirrors Gnosticism in that earth is like a hell or prison.
3) The girl named Sunette is or was an Interdimensional Portal through which spirits may communicate
The girl who appears on most of the videos was at one time a portal through which demons could take control of the girl’s body in order to relay information about cosmology, history, and the true state of the world. Others have used the word channeling, while followers of Desteni claim that a portal is where the entity has total control whereas in channeling the channeler maintains control. Regardless, I've been unable to find anything about portaling seperate from Desteni or prior to 2007. It seems like Desteni just made the word up. Spirits who communicated through the portal include Jesus, Hitler, some guy named Jack, Aliens, a turkey, and a vibrator (apparently inanimate objects have spirits too). Soon after manifesting or acquiring this ability, Sunette conveniently ceased being able to use or manifest this power on Sept. 1st 2008. Then, in December of the same year, the portal reopened for some strange reason. But whatever, portal interviews trickled out less and less after that.
4) The Present Condition of the World is Abusive
The Followers of Desteni state that the current state of the world where war, rape, poverty, etc. is caused through programmed human behavior. To Desteni, this current state is unacceptable. Desteni states that all the old systems (religion, governments, etc.) have failed. If humanity as a whole applied the Desteni Program true freedom could be attained and the abusive conditions would supposedly cease.
5) The Desteni Process: Self Forgiveness, Self Honesty, and Self Responsibility
This is where I think many who encounter Desteni members have trouble understanding what exactly they are saying. The Desteni Process is where one, over at least seven years, releases the chains of thought and emotion. The program has some similarities with the Auditing process in Scientology. However, the Desteni Process more closely resembles Zen Buddhism’s state of mindfulness. It is where one pays close attention to the endless ramblings of the mind and ceases the mind’s wanting to insert judgments or preconceptions onto things or actions.
Desteni Self Forgiveness: The process whereby an initiate acknowledges unwanted thoughts (including beliefs) or thoughts which lead to emotions.
Desteni Self Honesty: The process whereby an initiate unlearns or disbelieves all previous held conceptions and world beliefs. It is tied closely with the idea of Polarity and Common Sense.
Desteni Self Responsibility: The process whereby an initiate ceases or interrupts thoughts and emotions as they begin. Sometimes, followers of Desteni write the term as “Self Response-ability” as it denotes an ability to respond to or cancel thoughts upon their inception.
6) Humans are Programmed from Birth
According to Desteni, human behavior is predetermined from birth. A new born baby is downloaded with consciousness software which will dictate how the person feels and thinks for the entirety of life. The modern conception of free will is an illusion. Therefore, when Desteni says that a man who raped a child has no free will, his preprogrammed thoughts and feelings drove him to commit the act. The only salvation from thought slavery is through the Desteni Program.
7) Equality and Oneness for All
Desteni states that beneath all the illusions and feelings of separation, all of humanity and everything in the universe is in fact one and equal. By one, I think they mean one like God as God is one with the universe and everything in it. By equal, I think they mean that we really have no differences. The differences which we appear to have are based upon the illusions which the world has pulled over our eyes. In this way, someone who is a great basketball player is only great because we have deceived ourselves into thinking we could never be as great. Desteni seems to reject the idea that some people have more talents or abilities than others. Also, I don’t think that they mean equality in the metaphysical sense of the word. When Desteni members say that “We stand up within ourselves as One and Equal,” they mean that all of humanity is the same underneath all the beliefs, thoughts, and emotions. Therefore, if two or more people strip away their preconceptions, they would realize that they are not separate beings but one and equal.
8) The Current Money System and Social Constructs are Harmful
According to Desteni, the world’s current monetary system causes or adds to suffering through poverty. A harmful money system in this context would mean any money system which allows one person to make or receive more money than another. Therefore, everyone on the planet should receive the same wage no matter what. If a doctor is making x amount of money for his or her services, then a janitor should make x amount as well. Additionally, laws and customs are seen as harmful since they add to the deceit or illusion of separation and polarity. A law or custom is an external construct that imposes or reinforces programmed behavior. If all would see themselves as Equal and One, then the need for laws and customs would disappear.
9) The Veneration of Life
Followers of Desteni will claim that they worship nothing but life. In fact, to Desteni, life is religion. The veneration of life takes place when one realizes that everything has awareness. Everything is sacred because everything is one and equal. One might notice that Desteni seems to make a lot of noise concerning social injustices in the world such as poverty, cruelty, and war. On the other hand, one might notice that they don’t seem to be too concerned about raising donations or helping charities for such social injustices. It seems that those who follow Desteni believe that under going the Desteni Process by itself will end such injustices. Therefore, if everyone converted to Desteni and undertook the Process, all would realize or see the illusion of separation for what it is and naturally cease creating suffering.
The Modus Operandi
Desteni exists, for the time being, as a small new religious movement based in South Africa (near Durban) from the Desteni Farm. Its driving goal seems to be conversion of as many as possible to its indoctrination and belief system via the internet. The target age group is mainly young adults (around the age of 20). Those who become followers of Desteni may go to the farm to receive education and mind control exercises. After this education period, these individuals may return to their homes. From there, these individuals will try to spread the message to others through relationships or the internet. Unlike some new religious movements (or cults), Desteni seems more organic in that it doesn’t require isolation of its members from outsiders. In fact each follower of Desteni seems to become their own living system of isolation. While Desteni has gained some following since its inception in around 2008, it seems to have slowed down a bit. The most likely reason for this is due to the lack of an inspiring and believable charismatic leader. While the girl known as Sunette acts in this respect, she seems to presently lack the dominating presence or inspiration of a charismatic leader. However, this does not mean that the movement will cease to grow. In my view, Desteni has several things going for it. Firstly, it is non-exclusive which means that it easily accessible to the common folk regardless of wealth or status. Its organic nature allows it to flourish outside of Desteni controlled zones. It appears liberating in that it shows a way for people to release themselves from anxiety and other social issues. Lastly, Desteni gives purpose and solidarity through its goals to dismantle the current state of the world and set up its own system in its place.
A few more things: Polarity and Common Sense
Desteni Polarity: In Desteni, polarity is anything which has an opposite: good/evil, happy/sad, love/hate. It is pretty much anything which makes an individual think of the world in good and bad terms. Sometimes the word duality will be used. Desteni considers polarity to be another deception. While things may not be good or bad in and of themselves, Desteni's use of the term is an oversimplification.
Desteni Common Sense: This seems to mean thinking or accepting things without judgments, interpretations, beliefs, or definitions. For example, if one sees a swastika, one will not automatically think evil. In some ways it seemingly seeks to reduce humans to the mental level of children or perhaps even animals. Regardless, the followers of Desteni seem to apply their common sense to everything except Desteni beliefs. Or rather, Desteni beliefs are Common Sense.
This is all I have for now. I keep a personal online journal where I'm writing my findings. Anything new which I think will add to the information, I'll post it here.
A little while ago I bumped into Desteni Productions on youtube. I watched one of their videos which was more annoying than not. However, I decided to look at a few more and boy was I in for a surprise. After chatting with several members of Desteni on some of the youtube comments page, I was banned. I was really curious as to why they seriously held so many strange beliefs to be true. Also, I didn’t completely understand what in the heck they were talking about. So, I did as one of their members suggested and started going through their website. Needless to say, the Desteni forum is not well organized. The members seem to want you to read through all the material and watch all the mind numbing videos just to get a rudimentary understanding of their teachings. What I’m presenting here is an overview of the Desteni New Religious Movement for those who wish to find out more about them without becoming terribly confused. I will begin with their belief system. It should be noted that members of Desteni maintain that they have no beliefs. They will even go to the point of calling someone else’s beliefs “beLIEfs” as to them all beliefs except their own are in fact lies.
Their Belief System (or Common Sense System)
1) Demons are actually ghosts who died from traumatic deaths
High Priest Darryl Thomas states the following:
Quote
Demons have been greatly misunderstood in human history, and many beliefs about them have made erroneously attached to them. Demons in every case turned out to be human beings who died in extremely traumatic conditions, and were trapped within the emotional energetics symbolized by their deaths. A great number of these demons were children. And all demons were trapped on what was called 'the demon dimension' which was superimposed on earth. It was later discovered Heaven's attitude towards these trapped humans was singular: a total and complete disregard to those beings. Since no one on Earth had ever witnessed the goings-on regarding Heaven, nobody had any idea what the true nature of demons were. It was only within the process of assisting demons was this discovered.
2) God and his angels are evil (The Annunaki)
To Desteni, God is known as Anu who belongs to an ancient race of beings known as the Annunaki. Anu and his ilk crafted and created most of the misery now present in the world. Even though, Desteni claims not to blame the creator, it still pictures God as the architect of suffering. God denied humanity freedom through installing preprogrammed behaviors which create and perpetuate suffering. Many of the ideas concerning these beings come from Zachariah Sitchen and Amitakh Stanford (which has been noted earlier in the thread). The Desteni cosmology is more detailed and vast than this, but a more detailed description will not be given here. Regardless, in this context, the passive acceptance of such a cosmology defies reason.
Another idea of God which Desteni states along with other new age groups is that God is one and one with the universe. Therefore, everything within the universe is God. As far as Desteni is concerned, once humanity as a whole reaches a certain level of awareness, all as one will transcend and realize our place as equal to God. However, Desteni does not account for how the universe came into existence and rejects any idea of an external God. In some ways this mirrors Sethian Gnosticism where the Logos (Universe) is either good or disinterested. And Ialdabaoth or Demiurge (Anu) made humanity. Desteni also mirrors Gnosticism in that earth is like a hell or prison.
3) The girl named Sunette is or was an Interdimensional Portal through which spirits may communicate
The girl who appears on most of the videos was at one time a portal through which demons could take control of the girl’s body in order to relay information about cosmology, history, and the true state of the world. Others have used the word channeling, while followers of Desteni claim that a portal is where the entity has total control whereas in channeling the channeler maintains control. Regardless, I've been unable to find anything about portaling seperate from Desteni or prior to 2007. It seems like Desteni just made the word up. Spirits who communicated through the portal include Jesus, Hitler, some guy named Jack, Aliens, a turkey, and a vibrator (apparently inanimate objects have spirits too). Soon after manifesting or acquiring this ability, Sunette conveniently ceased being able to use or manifest this power on Sept. 1st 2008. Then, in December of the same year, the portal reopened for some strange reason. But whatever, portal interviews trickled out less and less after that.
4) The Present Condition of the World is Abusive
The Followers of Desteni state that the current state of the world where war, rape, poverty, etc. is caused through programmed human behavior. To Desteni, this current state is unacceptable. Desteni states that all the old systems (religion, governments, etc.) have failed. If humanity as a whole applied the Desteni Program true freedom could be attained and the abusive conditions would supposedly cease.
5) The Desteni Process: Self Forgiveness, Self Honesty, and Self Responsibility
This is where I think many who encounter Desteni members have trouble understanding what exactly they are saying. The Desteni Process is where one, over at least seven years, releases the chains of thought and emotion. The program has some similarities with the Auditing process in Scientology. However, the Desteni Process more closely resembles Zen Buddhism’s state of mindfulness. It is where one pays close attention to the endless ramblings of the mind and ceases the mind’s wanting to insert judgments or preconceptions onto things or actions.
Desteni Self Forgiveness: The process whereby an initiate acknowledges unwanted thoughts (including beliefs) or thoughts which lead to emotions.
Desteni Self Honesty: The process whereby an initiate unlearns or disbelieves all previous held conceptions and world beliefs. It is tied closely with the idea of Polarity and Common Sense.
Desteni Self Responsibility: The process whereby an initiate ceases or interrupts thoughts and emotions as they begin. Sometimes, followers of Desteni write the term as “Self Response-ability” as it denotes an ability to respond to or cancel thoughts upon their inception.
6) Humans are Programmed from Birth
According to Desteni, human behavior is predetermined from birth. A new born baby is downloaded with consciousness software which will dictate how the person feels and thinks for the entirety of life. The modern conception of free will is an illusion. Therefore, when Desteni says that a man who raped a child has no free will, his preprogrammed thoughts and feelings drove him to commit the act. The only salvation from thought slavery is through the Desteni Program.
7) Equality and Oneness for All
Desteni states that beneath all the illusions and feelings of separation, all of humanity and everything in the universe is in fact one and equal. By one, I think they mean one like God as God is one with the universe and everything in it. By equal, I think they mean that we really have no differences. The differences which we appear to have are based upon the illusions which the world has pulled over our eyes. In this way, someone who is a great basketball player is only great because we have deceived ourselves into thinking we could never be as great. Desteni seems to reject the idea that some people have more talents or abilities than others. Also, I don’t think that they mean equality in the metaphysical sense of the word. When Desteni members say that “We stand up within ourselves as One and Equal,” they mean that all of humanity is the same underneath all the beliefs, thoughts, and emotions. Therefore, if two or more people strip away their preconceptions, they would realize that they are not separate beings but one and equal.
8) The Current Money System and Social Constructs are Harmful
According to Desteni, the world’s current monetary system causes or adds to suffering through poverty. A harmful money system in this context would mean any money system which allows one person to make or receive more money than another. Therefore, everyone on the planet should receive the same wage no matter what. If a doctor is making x amount of money for his or her services, then a janitor should make x amount as well. Additionally, laws and customs are seen as harmful since they add to the deceit or illusion of separation and polarity. A law or custom is an external construct that imposes or reinforces programmed behavior. If all would see themselves as Equal and One, then the need for laws and customs would disappear.
9) The Veneration of Life
Followers of Desteni will claim that they worship nothing but life. In fact, to Desteni, life is religion. The veneration of life takes place when one realizes that everything has awareness. Everything is sacred because everything is one and equal. One might notice that Desteni seems to make a lot of noise concerning social injustices in the world such as poverty, cruelty, and war. On the other hand, one might notice that they don’t seem to be too concerned about raising donations or helping charities for such social injustices. It seems that those who follow Desteni believe that under going the Desteni Process by itself will end such injustices. Therefore, if everyone converted to Desteni and undertook the Process, all would realize or see the illusion of separation for what it is and naturally cease creating suffering.
The Modus Operandi
Desteni exists, for the time being, as a small new religious movement based in South Africa (near Durban) from the Desteni Farm. Its driving goal seems to be conversion of as many as possible to its indoctrination and belief system via the internet. The target age group is mainly young adults (around the age of 20). Those who become followers of Desteni may go to the farm to receive education and mind control exercises. After this education period, these individuals may return to their homes. From there, these individuals will try to spread the message to others through relationships or the internet. Unlike some new religious movements (or cults), Desteni seems more organic in that it doesn’t require isolation of its members from outsiders. In fact each follower of Desteni seems to become their own living system of isolation. While Desteni has gained some following since its inception in around 2008, it seems to have slowed down a bit. The most likely reason for this is due to the lack of an inspiring and believable charismatic leader. While the girl known as Sunette acts in this respect, she seems to presently lack the dominating presence or inspiration of a charismatic leader. However, this does not mean that the movement will cease to grow. In my view, Desteni has several things going for it. Firstly, it is non-exclusive which means that it easily accessible to the common folk regardless of wealth or status. Its organic nature allows it to flourish outside of Desteni controlled zones. It appears liberating in that it shows a way for people to release themselves from anxiety and other social issues. Lastly, Desteni gives purpose and solidarity through its goals to dismantle the current state of the world and set up its own system in its place.
A few more things: Polarity and Common Sense
Desteni Polarity: In Desteni, polarity is anything which has an opposite: good/evil, happy/sad, love/hate. It is pretty much anything which makes an individual think of the world in good and bad terms. Sometimes the word duality will be used. Desteni considers polarity to be another deception. While things may not be good or bad in and of themselves, Desteni's use of the term is an oversimplification.
Desteni Common Sense: This seems to mean thinking or accepting things without judgments, interpretations, beliefs, or definitions. For example, if one sees a swastika, one will not automatically think evil. In some ways it seemingly seeks to reduce humans to the mental level of children or perhaps even animals. Regardless, the followers of Desteni seem to apply their common sense to everything except Desteni beliefs. Or rather, Desteni beliefs are Common Sense.
This is all I have for now. I keep a personal online journal where I'm writing my findings. Anything new which I think will add to the information, I'll post it here.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: March 04, 2010 01:34AM
ThomDarc: Thanks for your informative post.
I'd like to draw attention to this point: "While Desteni has gained some following since its inception in around 2008, it seems to have slowed down a bit. The most likely reason for this is due to the lack of an inspiring and believable charismatic leader. While the girl known as Sunette acts in this respect, she seems to presently lack the dominating presence or inspiration of a charismatic leader."
Sunette as a so-called "portal" helped to establish the presence of Desteni on the internet. As we can see she is no longer featured in that capacity. However, it is clear that Sunette as "portal" was only ever due to the influence of one man: Bernard Poolman. Desteni is quite obviously his invention. Yet while many Desteni members appear in videos promoting the cause, Poolman is only ever heard on audio on Youtube with subtitles flashed on the screen. Why?
[www.youtube.com]
Earlier in this thread, when asked the question, Daryll Thomas of Desteni replied that if Poolman was visually represented in Desteni videos it would risk ...
"Making the messenger more important than the message. Bernard is far too charismatic for his own good and would have people fall all over him and make him some pop star guru like Tolle and Chopra."
This in turn implies that if he was shown, then it would readily be assumed by any outside viewer that Poolman is the leader of Desteni, because he is "far too charismatic for his own good".
When Poolman can rely on spokespersons for his philosophy such as Sunette or Daryll Thomas then it is unnecessary for him to be clearly identified as their leader. This helps to promote the desired public image. By declining to have his face in the videos, Bernard Poolman can present his organisation as a spontaneous, grass-roots movement of free individuals.
The evidence suggests that the founding of Desteni is a very conscious and deliberate attempt by Bernard Poolman to operate a typical cult, albeit one that does not appear at least on the surface to have a leader. One of his key strategies from the beginning has been to get other people to represent the group publicly instead of him so it seems to outsiders that he is one of many rather than the central figure.
I'd like to draw attention to this point: "While Desteni has gained some following since its inception in around 2008, it seems to have slowed down a bit. The most likely reason for this is due to the lack of an inspiring and believable charismatic leader. While the girl known as Sunette acts in this respect, she seems to presently lack the dominating presence or inspiration of a charismatic leader."
Sunette as a so-called "portal" helped to establish the presence of Desteni on the internet. As we can see she is no longer featured in that capacity. However, it is clear that Sunette as "portal" was only ever due to the influence of one man: Bernard Poolman. Desteni is quite obviously his invention. Yet while many Desteni members appear in videos promoting the cause, Poolman is only ever heard on audio on Youtube with subtitles flashed on the screen. Why?
[www.youtube.com]
Earlier in this thread, when asked the question, Daryll Thomas of Desteni replied that if Poolman was visually represented in Desteni videos it would risk ...
"Making the messenger more important than the message. Bernard is far too charismatic for his own good and would have people fall all over him and make him some pop star guru like Tolle and Chopra."
This in turn implies that if he was shown, then it would readily be assumed by any outside viewer that Poolman is the leader of Desteni, because he is "far too charismatic for his own good".
When Poolman can rely on spokespersons for his philosophy such as Sunette or Daryll Thomas then it is unnecessary for him to be clearly identified as their leader. This helps to promote the desired public image. By declining to have his face in the videos, Bernard Poolman can present his organisation as a spontaneous, grass-roots movement of free individuals.
The evidence suggests that the founding of Desteni is a very conscious and deliberate attempt by Bernard Poolman to operate a typical cult, albeit one that does not appear at least on the surface to have a leader. One of his key strategies from the beginning has been to get other people to represent the group publicly instead of him so it seems to outsiders that he is one of many rather than the central figure.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:20PM
Continuing on from my previous post, it seems it's becoming fairly clear now that Desteni is a cult led by Bernard Poolman.
Here's a post quoted from
[www.godlikeproductions.com]
which pretty much sums up the situation (except it's not teenagers involved but young people):
"The girl in the video is Sunette Spies. The more important question is WHO IS THE MAN BEHIND THE CAMERA? His name is Bernard Pooleman.
If you sample the videos from earliest to latest, it's very easy to figure out what is going on here.
To create your own cult:
STEP ONE: find a lost and impressionable soul, maybe in search of a father figure, and dislocate that person from their previous identity, in such a way that it's impossible to go back).
(We witness a teenage girl, propped in front of a camera for the world to see, speaking about masturbation, assuming the identity of TOILET PAPER, A DOLLAR BILL, A VIBRATOR, RICHARD PRYOR, A PSYCHO-KILLER, A WHALE).
STEP TWO: remake a new identity for that person, an identity which reinforces a separation and suspicion of society at large, and which is dependent on YOU for reinforcement. Mix in a lot of confusion, mysticism, and drugs.
(She's a "portal", goes by new names, shaves her head, learns "self-forgiveness, speaks of reptillian mind control, aliens, salvia (the most potent hallucinogen on earth), lives with Bernard on the farm)
STEP THREE: if this person has some charisma, use her to bring other lost souls into the fold
(step up internet web sites, use youtube, get the message out, and drop enough references to "life on the farm" around. encourage young people to come and check it out).
STEP FOUR: run these new recruits through bizarre and disorienting excercises (see any testimonial regarding life on the farm posted on the net... note the casual references to sex between group members).
As for WHY a middle aged man would want to surround himself with confused teenage girls who hang on his every pronouncement... we can only speculate.
The US had a very public version of this type of thing... it was made up of lost and drug-scrambled girls, a con-man, and a lot of ego-nullifying end of the world mystical clap-trap.
Read Destini's ten point Statement of process for Heaven on Earth... and think Squeeky Fromme."
Here's a post quoted from
[www.godlikeproductions.com]
which pretty much sums up the situation (except it's not teenagers involved but young people):
"The girl in the video is Sunette Spies. The more important question is WHO IS THE MAN BEHIND THE CAMERA? His name is Bernard Pooleman.
If you sample the videos from earliest to latest, it's very easy to figure out what is going on here.
To create your own cult:
STEP ONE: find a lost and impressionable soul, maybe in search of a father figure, and dislocate that person from their previous identity, in such a way that it's impossible to go back).
(We witness a teenage girl, propped in front of a camera for the world to see, speaking about masturbation, assuming the identity of TOILET PAPER, A DOLLAR BILL, A VIBRATOR, RICHARD PRYOR, A PSYCHO-KILLER, A WHALE).
STEP TWO: remake a new identity for that person, an identity which reinforces a separation and suspicion of society at large, and which is dependent on YOU for reinforcement. Mix in a lot of confusion, mysticism, and drugs.
(She's a "portal", goes by new names, shaves her head, learns "self-forgiveness, speaks of reptillian mind control, aliens, salvia (the most potent hallucinogen on earth), lives with Bernard on the farm)
STEP THREE: if this person has some charisma, use her to bring other lost souls into the fold
(step up internet web sites, use youtube, get the message out, and drop enough references to "life on the farm" around. encourage young people to come and check it out).
STEP FOUR: run these new recruits through bizarre and disorienting excercises (see any testimonial regarding life on the farm posted on the net... note the casual references to sex between group members).
As for WHY a middle aged man would want to surround himself with confused teenage girls who hang on his every pronouncement... we can only speculate.
The US had a very public version of this type of thing... it was made up of lost and drug-scrambled girls, a con-man, and a lot of ego-nullifying end of the world mystical clap-trap.
Read Destini's ten point Statement of process for Heaven on Earth... and think Squeeky Fromme."
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
ThomDarc
()
Date: March 09, 2010 05:40AM
Quote
Sandman
STEP FOUR: run these new recruits through bizarre and disorienting excercises (see any testimonial regarding life on the farm posted on the net... note the casual references to sex between group members).
As for WHY a middle aged man would want to surround himself with confused teenage girls who hang on his every pronouncement... we can only speculate.
The US had a very public version of this type of thing... it was made up of lost and drug-scrambled girls, a con-man, and a lot of ego-nullifying end of the world mystical clap-trap.
Read Destini's ten point Statement of process for Heaven on Earth... and think Squeeky Fromme."
I agree that Mr. Poolman's involvement is very indicative of Desteni's functions. His presence is minimalized while he is still able to enjoy the fruits of Desteni. Many of the Desteni videos are concerned heavily with sex and how it should be enjoyed equally between all members. In their view, the only reason you wouldn't want to have sex with some other person is because of programming. Another dangerous precedent which Desteni sets is the equality of children. Desteni treats children as beings that need to be given leeway and freedom to explore and experience things on a level similar to adults. They are not to be taught that things are bad or good, but to make up their own minds along with helpful advice concerning Equality and Oneness. Also, note that Desteni makes a big stink about children being raped against their will. However, nothing is said concerning how children should be treated with regards to sex in non-forced situations. Most pedophiles don't go out of their way to force a child into sex but rather get the child used to or accepting of the idea.
Here is a lovely brochure like testimony written supposedly by a "Mother" to get people to feel safe about bringing their kids to Desteni Farm: Click Here
I don't know how South Africa legally views issues like child molestation, But in my view the South African government should keep a careful eye on Desteni.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: March 18, 2010 03:39AM
Bernard Poolman claims in 'Heaven on Earth Predicted through EqualMoney2020' (at [www.youtube.com]) that
'Within the next few years Desteni will go mainstream politics worldwide with a single mission statement, a single agenda of bringing about the social economic change that will support all life -- that would include animals and plant-life equally and in that way thus establish what everybody has dreamed about practically called "heaven on earth"'.
A major part of Poolman's plan in establishing heaven on earth is the implementation of the Desteni 'New Equal Money System' which he claims will have an 'Economic Effect on the Corpus of the Economic Structure of the World'. His goal is
'to get at least 100 million people to shave off their hair as a statement of Standing up in no longer participation in the hair industry - as an example of how one single point can affect everything and how one single point is creating abuse and suffering in this world that is immense compared to the gain of this "personal choice" and "individual style" that our hair represents.'
He encourages members of Desteni to post pictures of themselves with shaven heads on the web. Amongst some of these pictures can be found rare images of Bernard Poolman himself.
At [www.faceworldfaceoff.com] shaving one's hair off is making a 'stand for a World of Oneness and Equality'.
Bernard Poolman is of course not the first cult leader to suffer from the delusion that his cult is a world-wide mass movement bound to have a major social, political and economic impact upon the course of world events. And he probably won't be the last.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2010 03:41AM by Sandman.
'Within the next few years Desteni will go mainstream politics worldwide with a single mission statement, a single agenda of bringing about the social economic change that will support all life -- that would include animals and plant-life equally and in that way thus establish what everybody has dreamed about practically called "heaven on earth"'.
A major part of Poolman's plan in establishing heaven on earth is the implementation of the Desteni 'New Equal Money System' which he claims will have an 'Economic Effect on the Corpus of the Economic Structure of the World'. His goal is
'to get at least 100 million people to shave off their hair as a statement of Standing up in no longer participation in the hair industry - as an example of how one single point can affect everything and how one single point is creating abuse and suffering in this world that is immense compared to the gain of this "personal choice" and "individual style" that our hair represents.'
He encourages members of Desteni to post pictures of themselves with shaven heads on the web. Amongst some of these pictures can be found rare images of Bernard Poolman himself.
At [www.faceworldfaceoff.com] shaving one's hair off is making a 'stand for a World of Oneness and Equality'.
Bernard Poolman is of course not the first cult leader to suffer from the delusion that his cult is a world-wide mass movement bound to have a major social, political and economic impact upon the course of world events. And he probably won't be the last.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2010 03:41AM by Sandman.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Darryl Thomas
()
Date: April 05, 2010 05:16PM
I supposed personal attacks are allowed if one is being criticized and accused of leading a "new religious movement."
Want to mention one thing here: While "ThomDarc" and "Sandman" are allowed to snipe and take potshots from behind anonymous screen names, I prefer to make my statements under the authority of my own legal name. I also gently suggest to consider the sources of "GodlikeProductions" with a grain of conspiracy-theory hoo-hah salt.
Thus I only have to say that being called a "High Priest" of Desteni is something I find mildly amusing. "ThomDarc," despite his obvious axe-grinding did a pretty good job delineating the Desteni message, though containing several factual and interpretative errors (but too many for me to correct at this time).
"However, Desteni does not account for how the universe came into existence and rejects any idea of an external God. In some ways this mirrors Sethian Gnosticism where the Logos (Universe) is either good or disinterested. And Ialdabaoth or Demiurge (Anu) made humanity. Desteni also mirrors Gnosticism in that earth is like a hell or prison."
We reject ALL beliefs for the simple reason that they only exist to stand in the place of verifiable facts, facts which the belief systems of all religions have never been able to provide. A belief is thus an opinion one "makes true" or "would like to be true" for self. Desteni stays with what can be verified: namely, the physical world, unlike the Gnostics, who like the Christians, Hindus and Greeks who considered physical matter "evil" and sought to escape it at all costs. I suppose could say that we consider the physical "God" (or maybe DNA) because it creates life. While we do not "worship" life, our idea of equality comes from our understanding that this Life is equality manifested in all things.
Want to mention one thing here: While "ThomDarc" and "Sandman" are allowed to snipe and take potshots from behind anonymous screen names, I prefer to make my statements under the authority of my own legal name. I also gently suggest to consider the sources of "GodlikeProductions" with a grain of conspiracy-theory hoo-hah salt.
Thus I only have to say that being called a "High Priest" of Desteni is something I find mildly amusing. "ThomDarc," despite his obvious axe-grinding did a pretty good job delineating the Desteni message, though containing several factual and interpretative errors (but too many for me to correct at this time).
"However, Desteni does not account for how the universe came into existence and rejects any idea of an external God. In some ways this mirrors Sethian Gnosticism where the Logos (Universe) is either good or disinterested. And Ialdabaoth or Demiurge (Anu) made humanity. Desteni also mirrors Gnosticism in that earth is like a hell or prison."
We reject ALL beliefs for the simple reason that they only exist to stand in the place of verifiable facts, facts which the belief systems of all religions have never been able to provide. A belief is thus an opinion one "makes true" or "would like to be true" for self. Desteni stays with what can be verified: namely, the physical world, unlike the Gnostics, who like the Christians, Hindus and Greeks who considered physical matter "evil" and sought to escape it at all costs. I suppose could say that we consider the physical "God" (or maybe DNA) because it creates life. While we do not "worship" life, our idea of equality comes from our understanding that this Life is equality manifested in all things.
WARNING Desteni, cult Jargon, Bernard Poolman Applied Kinesiology scam
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 06, 2010 02:54AM
This is a response to another distraction thread started about the Desteni group/sect.
Its usually better to keep the responses about a group to one single thread, as otherwise good information gets buried. Some sects use that as a technique, to flood a message board posting good critical information with testimonials and multiple threads to confuse the issue.
In that vein, here is a cross-post of some of that response.
Desteni is throwing up MASSIVE RED FLAGS and serious warning signs even at first glance. The people who are running Desteni are quite clever.
There is another very disturbing report here about Desteni, where they have "courses" lasting YEARS and costing a fortune.
[forum.culteducation.com]
(cross-post)
[forum.culteducation.com]
Sandman:
Excellent point, that is very valuable information.
Any sect/group that has such intense higher abstraction re-languaging patterns, (Jargon), using so many words of that nature, is actually extremely dangerous. That is mental quicksand, a mind-trap.
Once an untrained person in these areas gets lured into a SYSTEM like that, using dozens of jargon-laden mental-concepts, they can get lost in that forest for YEARS. It can completely colonize a person's mind and mental concepts, as is its intent.
Even from just a quick initial look, its clear that Bernard Poolman and Desteni are no dummies. They know if they can take control of people's mental CONCEPTS at that higher level of abstraction, then the rest is gravy.
And the Desteni 'muscle communication' Applied Kinesiology, that is a self-delusion and a scam, and has been proven to be as such in double-blind tests. [www.skepdic.com]
The words coming about Desteni seem to be coming from a Desteni apologist or employee posing as a client. Just sayin...it ain't that convincing.
And in this forum, it was shown how James Arthur Ray, now charged with manslaughter, used Applied Kinesiology to literally TAKE CONTROL of people's responses. This is why so many cultic groups are now using AK Applied Kinesiology muscle-communication-testing.
The person who is applying it to the patient/victim, literally CONTROLS THE RESPONSES. That gives them incredible power over the person, as they can determine their answers, either unconsciously or deliberately.
This was used by James Arthur Ray, and many others as a part of their system of taking control of people's responses to them.
[forum.culteducation.com]
But it all makes sense now, why James Ray promotes Applied Kinesiology.
You can make a Applied Kinesiology home-test. Get a scale, and put it on a flat table, and zero it. Then push down 2 ways with one arm, once with the back of the hand, then with the palm. With the palm down you can easily press with 2x the force, as the muscles are stronger.
That is the scam of Applied Kinesiology.
The guy pushing your arm down is able to apply more than 2x the force, of you trying to push your arm up. Worse, when you push up in AK, you can't use your body weight, like when you push down, so the guy on top has perhaps 4x the force.
Even worse, if a male like James Ray is pushing down on a females arm, he easily would have much more than 4x the force, especially if done standing.
Some AK is done with the victim on their KNEES while the lazy AK is sitting, that must function as a special bonus for the AK guy, to have the client on her knees.
So Applied Kinesiology (AK) gives James Ray COMPLETE CONTROL of your responses to his questions.
They sell AK as a lie detetector, so James Ray can ask his inner circle female followers any question, then control the answer. Its being used by guys like Ray as another tool, to control what the victim thinks is "true".
Engineering consent, and actually taking control of what the person believes is "true".
Of course, there are many AK people who "believe" in what they are doing, and of course make money doing it. But James Ray is not one of those people, he sees how it works, its a tool of control.
If anyone asks to do AK, just reverse the arm position. Have them try to PUSH UP with the back of their hand, and you PUSH DOWN with your palm, and then you can control the process. Grunt a bit to make it seem you are pushing harder when you are not.
Its another outright scam that gives the person ON TOP total control, and in the hands of someone like James Ray, a powerful tool to take ABSOLUTE CONTROL on a personal level of his inner circle followers sense of what is "true", as they ask deep personal questions to be answered.
That is truly diabolical.
_______________________________________
Its usually better to keep the responses about a group to one single thread, as otherwise good information gets buried. Some sects use that as a technique, to flood a message board posting good critical information with testimonials and multiple threads to confuse the issue.
In that vein, here is a cross-post of some of that response.
Desteni is throwing up MASSIVE RED FLAGS and serious warning signs even at first glance. The people who are running Desteni are quite clever.
There is another very disturbing report here about Desteni, where they have "courses" lasting YEARS and costing a fortune.
[forum.culteducation.com]
(cross-post)
[forum.culteducation.com]
Sandman:
Excellent point, that is very valuable information.
Any sect/group that has such intense higher abstraction re-languaging patterns, (Jargon), using so many words of that nature, is actually extremely dangerous. That is mental quicksand, a mind-trap.
Once an untrained person in these areas gets lured into a SYSTEM like that, using dozens of jargon-laden mental-concepts, they can get lost in that forest for YEARS. It can completely colonize a person's mind and mental concepts, as is its intent.
Even from just a quick initial look, its clear that Bernard Poolman and Desteni are no dummies. They know if they can take control of people's mental CONCEPTS at that higher level of abstraction, then the rest is gravy.
And the Desteni 'muscle communication' Applied Kinesiology, that is a self-delusion and a scam, and has been proven to be as such in double-blind tests. [www.skepdic.com]
The words coming about Desteni seem to be coming from a Desteni apologist or employee posing as a client. Just sayin...it ain't that convincing.
And in this forum, it was shown how James Arthur Ray, now charged with manslaughter, used Applied Kinesiology to literally TAKE CONTROL of people's responses. This is why so many cultic groups are now using AK Applied Kinesiology muscle-communication-testing.
The person who is applying it to the patient/victim, literally CONTROLS THE RESPONSES. That gives them incredible power over the person, as they can determine their answers, either unconsciously or deliberately.
This was used by James Arthur Ray, and many others as a part of their system of taking control of people's responses to them.
[forum.culteducation.com]
But it all makes sense now, why James Ray promotes Applied Kinesiology.
You can make a Applied Kinesiology home-test. Get a scale, and put it on a flat table, and zero it. Then push down 2 ways with one arm, once with the back of the hand, then with the palm. With the palm down you can easily press with 2x the force, as the muscles are stronger.
That is the scam of Applied Kinesiology.
The guy pushing your arm down is able to apply more than 2x the force, of you trying to push your arm up. Worse, when you push up in AK, you can't use your body weight, like when you push down, so the guy on top has perhaps 4x the force.
Even worse, if a male like James Ray is pushing down on a females arm, he easily would have much more than 4x the force, especially if done standing.
Some AK is done with the victim on their KNEES while the lazy AK is sitting, that must function as a special bonus for the AK guy, to have the client on her knees.
So Applied Kinesiology (AK) gives James Ray COMPLETE CONTROL of your responses to his questions.
They sell AK as a lie detetector, so James Ray can ask his inner circle female followers any question, then control the answer. Its being used by guys like Ray as another tool, to control what the victim thinks is "true".
Engineering consent, and actually taking control of what the person believes is "true".
Of course, there are many AK people who "believe" in what they are doing, and of course make money doing it. But James Ray is not one of those people, he sees how it works, its a tool of control.
If anyone asks to do AK, just reverse the arm position. Have them try to PUSH UP with the back of their hand, and you PUSH DOWN with your palm, and then you can control the process. Grunt a bit to make it seem you are pushing harder when you are not.
Its another outright scam that gives the person ON TOP total control, and in the hands of someone like James Ray, a powerful tool to take ABSOLUTE CONTROL on a personal level of his inner circle followers sense of what is "true", as they ask deep personal questions to be answered.
That is truly diabolical.
_______________________________________
Quote
Sandman
The opening post in this thread seems to be a testimonial for Desteni, perhaps as an attempt to counter critcisms levelled at that group in previous dicussions on this forum at [forum.culteducation.com]
All of the following words and phrases have been invented or appropriated by Bernard Poolman of Desteni to describe the Desteni 'process':
'common sense', 'support', 'structural resonance alignment', 'points of suppression', 'mind consciousness system', 'assist', 'applying self forgiveness', 'self honesty', 'applying self forgiveness within self honesty', 'principle of equality'.
There are more, but these are the ones used in the post in question.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.