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rrmoderator
Valontin:

Ole seems to have his critics and he has become a somewhat controversial figure.

Do you think that some of that criticism is valid and warranted?

If so, what do you feel is wrong with his approach and behavior?

Please be very specific.

I think there are some students of Ole who did no like his style. And they are moving to another teacher. Sometimes I was present when people asked Ole if they can move to Nyingma lineage or to another teacher. Ole always says yes. And I like that. Buddhist teachings are great, no matter you are student of one teacher or another. Of course there probably are some fake teachers, that`s why the student should always check the teacher, not to blindly follow him or her.

By my opinion the most of the critics to Ole are result of the split in the lineage. (Personally for me there is no split. Dharma is dharma, but that is another question) Also some people did not like his warning about Islam. He is always saying that his opinion about Islam is not Buddhist point of view, but he is saying that as member of society. He is not asking anybody to share this view.

Ole`s approach and behavior is prefect for the type of people that became his students, the same way as Tilopa`s behavior or Drukpa Kunley`s or Dalai Lama`s or Karmapa`s behavior are perfect for their students. The atmosphere in diamond way centers is very relaxed and everybody is completely free to choose another teacher, lineage, became Christian or leave Buddhism at all.

valontin:

So what you are saying then is that whatever criticism exists about Ole is invalid and you can't think of anything he does that is wrong or even that questionable. And anyone that leaves his group has no meaningful basis for criticism either, it's just about "the lineage" or something else, which is their problem.

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rrmoderator
valontin:

So what you are saying then is that whatever criticism exists about Ole is invalid and you can't think of anything he does that is wrong or even that questionable. And anyone that leaves his group has no meaningful basis for criticism either, it's just about "the lineage" or something else, which is their problem.

No. I did not say that. I am just showing my point of view.
People who criticize Lama Ole are probably right for themselves. The same way there are people who did not like Dalai Lama and probably every other lama (and criticize them). This kind of people are right for themselves. There were even people who did not like the Buddha and even tried to kill him.

Following the teacher in Buddhism should be a result of careful check. If the teacher say and do the same, if he knows the teachings, if he have the permit to teach from his own teacher and very important - if the teacher has true compassion, if he/she really takes care for others and what are results of his/shes advices in peoples life. The trust in the teacher should be a result of personal check. To have trust in the Lama should not depend on formal statements by anybody, but by one own's test and communication with the teacher. As far as one rely on the approvement of somebody else one finally cannot develop full trust onerself. I have done the tests for myself and I am continuing to check the teacher. That is common sense.

In Buddhism one Lama could be perfect teacher, but it is possible that there is no good student/teacher connection. In such situation the best is to find another teacher. On vajrayana level of Buddhist teachings the teacher is very important, that`s why it is very important to check him/her and to have trust. That`s also apply to the teachings - critical trust, not just blind faith. The Buddha himself said: "You should not believe a single word of my teachings, just because a Buddha said it. Please check everything for yourself. Be your own guiding light"

Actually most of the people who leave the group are not criticizing Lama Ole. Most of them are grateful to him, because he was their first teacher, and made the contact with enlightening teachings for them. Most of the people who leave are practicing in another Buddhist groups - and that is fine.

If Lama Ole do something which is against true compassion, or if he consciously harm anybody - he will lose most of his students (including me).

valontin:

You speak in circles.

I asked you specifically if you could see anything wrong with Ole?

Is any of the criticism directed against him valid?

That is, what in your opinion does he do wrong?

You still have not answered these questions, but instead have offered various rationalizations to dismiss anything that might appear negative related to Ole.

Please answer the questions directly.

BTW--first you say that a "personal check" made by "one's own test and communication" is the crucial issue, but then you attempt to speak for the people that have left the group by expressing their supposed gratitude.

It seems to me that you can only speak to your own personal opinion, check, test and gratitude, not that of others.

The most obvious explanation for their rejection of Ole, is that he didn't pass their check or test.

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rrmoderator
valontin:
I asked you specifically if you could see anything wrong with Ole?

Me personally - No.
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Is any of the criticism directed against him valid?

From my point of view - No.
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That is, what in your opinion does he do wrong?

In my opinion - Nothing.
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You still have not answered these questions, but instead have offered various rationalizations to dismiss anything that might appear negative related to Ole.

No I did not do that. On relative level our view is dualistic, thus limited. Good for one is not so good for another one. Our view is colored by our likes and dislikes, our expectations and fears, our constantly changing "disturbing" emotions.
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BTW--first you say that a "personal check" made by "one's own test and communication" is the crucial issue, but then you attempt to speak for the people that have left the group by expressing their supposed gratitude.

No. Everything in my posts here is just my personal opinion.
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It seems to me that you can only speak to your own personal opinion, check, test and gratitude, not that of others.

Yes I am trying to do that.

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The most obvious explanation for their rejection of Ole, is that he didn't pass their check or test.

That is just another point of view - yours. I express my personal observation and opinion in my previous post.

By the way, you can say that Lama Ole did not pass their check and test. The same way some students of other Buddhist Lamas are changing their teachers with another one. That is not a sign for failure of the teacher, that is a sign for missing teacher/student connection. That happens also in old Tibet.

Valontin:

Frankly you are beginning to post comments more and more like a "cult" member.

You are only here to defend your leader, dismiss any criticism and not engage in meaningful dialog.

Based upon your comments it would seem that you think Ole is somehow a perfect leader, which no one is in any group.

All leaders have their faults, and Ole is no exception. He surely does things wrong too, but you have decided to ignore that.

You really are not contributing much meaningful to this thread--just the same sing-song of apology and praise over and over again.

IMO--you offer some evidence that Ole's followers don't think critically, behave in a cult-like manner and that the group is personality-drive.

rrmoderator,

Everyone has freedom of opinion. I respect yours.

Best wishes and much love to all.

Bye

Haha! Nice one Rick!
I rest my case. Diamond Way is a cult, and Ole Nydahl is a fraud. :)

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Valontin

"There is no obligatory annual membership. There are many people who are coming to the centers - for years without giving any money. Also it is not necessary to buy any books, because usually they are available in the library of the local center - free for rent. Also it is not necessary to buy any photographs, I am such example."

Unfortunately I have not seen this to be the case, annual membership is paid in the center local to me, it is made very clear that it must be paid. Each time a lecture is given by anyone other than the local center members payment must be made. Requests for donations to causes such as the Europe Center to name but one are frequent.

Valontin also talks about a 2 week Ngondro course in his home country, that would have cost as does every DW retreat or course, just go to the web site to see the starting price.

Perhaps Valontin feels ok at the benefit of others who are funding DW, its self proclaimed leader and holy beneficiaries.

On the point of stances against Islam, writing off Africa and homophobia, Ole is a leader of a group and he is followed by his students in these views, I know, I've heard them from Students who are adamant the Ole is right and Islam is Evil and Africa has no hope. This must mean somthing, how can you just gloss it over as only Ole's views.

Diamond Way is a cult and one that should be watched