Quote
Blackhat
Let's not persue those who are trying other avenues than a cult, and let them be in their search for meaning. I'm actually sure Danny will be ok, and I won't be surprised to see him making his mark in 5 years or so....

Oh you're sure are you?

Just the same as you were sure our investigation into paedophilia within the JCs cult was nothing more than a ''witch hunt''?

Quote
Blackhat
He certainly has a better and more educated life than thousands of kids his age in British Housing Estates...so go report them first before you report the Gianstefanis.

I beg your pardon?

Dan is entitled to exactly the same education as these thousands of kids his age in ''British Housing Estates''.

Who said anything about reporting?

You have a massive chip on your shoulder Blackhat. You have offered nothing to this cause for months now. You only seem to appear when you're having a go at me. Why are you even here?

If anyone was going to report the Gianstefanis it would be due to information they may have regarding paedophilia within the JCs cult....

Quote
hello
Then there was the tale of how one of their members sexually assaulted a young boy. They didn't report it to the police because the parents understood.....the member they had taken in had learning difficulties...they taught him how to wash...and more importantly he responded well to the teachings..( I'll never forget when she said that)...they had a meeting amongst themselves - I believe it's called a ' grievance metting'- as within the JC's, everyone is accountable...went the song.
The decided to end all association with the member and he was banished from the group...".it's not about whether or not you re- offend...but PLEASE, PLEASE don't bring negative publicity to the JC's."

They're the innocent victims in all this..........
It's taken me far too long to speak out about some of the things I saw...yesterday was such clarity for me.
Just because Dave and Sue choose not to recognise abuse...it doesn't mean the rest of us should share their delusions.
ANY CHILD THAT YOUR EX- MEMBER GOES ONTO ASSAULT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILTY, SUE.

But, hey- don't think about it....just keep singing your song..........

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2011 10:14PM by Apollo.

Quote
Apollo
You have a massive chip on your shoulder Blackhat. You have offered nothing to this cause for months now. You only seem to appear when you're having a go at me. Why are you even here?

First of all, this is a personal attack upon a poster, and I ask Rick Ross to deal with this according to the rules.

Secondly, I have been here for over three years. The reason is in my history, if you care to read it.

I leave it to the moderator to deal with this personal attack, as per the rules.

Blackhat:

You seem to consider disagreement with you and/or critical questions and comments concerning your posts a "personal attack."

Sorry, but this is not a violation of the rules.

Quote
cait

Quote
Apollo
Thanks Stoic,

It can't be healthy going from one ''community'' to the next in such a short space of time.

perhaps it can be. I expect that some communities might be so toxic that they poison one to even the most positive community alternative, which would be a pretty unhealthy situation, however if you were to emerge from your community experience with some regard for the remaining community members, if not for the teachings they follow or the discipline they subject themselves to, you could certainly then benefit from entering a healthy community environment.

I think a number of ex-JCs have followed that pattern, with a healthy community alternative providing them with the breathing space and environment in which to re-build an independant approach to life with the support and familiarity of a (different) community structure. If you've successfully subjected yourself to stringent community rules and unreasonable demands on your time, energy and other assets for a prolonged period of time, then as with nicotine, removing the crutch brings the danger of severe physical collapse/damage.

Quote
Apollo
It's clearly a more reputable group than the JCs (which wouldn't be hard to be fair). They don't have to answer to a psychotic cult leader for a start.

quite.

Quote
Apollo
Perhaps they do do some positive work but they also appear very bitter towards society and that can't be a healthy environment for a 16 year old lad who really should be concentrating on his education rather than trying to ''save the world'', and no doubt getting himself a criminal record in the process.

Well, I know it's good not to argue about religion, politics or sex, and I don't plan to mention sex at all just now, but must say, while it can be easy to confuse activism with bitterness toward society, most activists do have society's best interests at heart: like a parent knows what is in their childrens' best interests better than the children do themselves.

If activism doesn't work with education, then God help all the uni students, because they seem to make up the core demographic of activists world-wide. Don't underestimate Dann's thirst for education either, or his parents' wishes for him to access it. And at the same time, don't forget the Gianstefanis have been an almost independant micro-community of sorts, within the JCs, going back a while now.

Did they not part ways with the JCs over disagreements on child-rearing? Do you think Dave was pushing for them to allow Dann more freedom of education? I imagine that more likely they took a stand in the face of his attempts to micro-manage their family and limit Dann's academic choices, and if that is so, I say bravo Sue, Rols and Dann!

These students are gaining an education at the same time and that's the difference. They're not devoting their whole life to the community which appears to be the case with the Gianstefanis. There's evidence to suggest Dan may have been dragged out of school to work full-time with the Catholic workers and that saddens me.

'They're not devoting their whole life to the community which appears to be the case with the Gianstefanis.'

That's what makes me feel uneasy about the swift transfer of total allegiance from Davejc to another group--whatever that group is.
It is indicative less of a considered decision to support something worthwhile and more of a deep need to be a martyr to a cause, any cause that allows me to feel morally and intellectually superior to the bog-standard working person, who being a systemite, is naturally a 'sheep in need of saving'.

The Gianstefanis have moved on from saving the world in order to put it to work flogging Davejc's comics to saving the world from its natural desires to protect itself when attacked.
Notwithstanding my agreement over the Wikileaks questions, I take issue with the Gianstefanis assumption that they, so lately completely obssessed puppets of Davejc, are in a position to offer leadership to anyone regarding such fraught issues as the defence of the realm.

They self-identify as an Australian family who pay no British taxes at all but are happy to avail themselves of the benefits offered by Britain, the healthcare on demand, the much reviled state education that taught me a love of learning, (only possible because it countered the religious fanaticism I had earlier suffered as 'education') the entire social infrastructure on which they depend for continued existence.

In return they join a group that advocates peace by condoning the destruction of state defence property and being proud of being imprisoned for that destruction. (Note, they were not required to repay the £75,000 damages--a bill picked up by the British working man systemites they so despise)


These are people who have no understanding of hunger, poverty or hardship at all. They believe that the world owes them a living on their own terms, a phase that most adolescents go through and grow out of.

I sincerely hope that they can find some way past the idiocy of Davejc's teachings in the company of the Catholic Workers, but right now they are using the same street mission, publicity seeking tactics for yet another confused and ill-thought out cause.
The attraction is obviously an existing group into which they can seamlessly fit without making any real changes, not any principles that group was formed to support.

A few months working on the Catholic Worker farm or anonymously working a soup kitchen run would do more to show a break from Davejc's influence than dressing up as Guantanamo inmates and mugging for the camera.

Davejc's influence is alive and well--just wave a camera lens in their direction and they'll perform on cue, last week the gospel according to Davejc, this week the anarcho-christian-freegan-communist road to peace through destruction of the state---but who are the sheep in this situation?

As a British working systemite, I feel quite deeply offended by the presumption of these Gianstefanis. They have no stake at all in this country and are proud of that--who do they think they are to stand on our pavements and lecture us on anything, let alone to pretend to a moral and spiritual superiority?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2011 12:36AM by Stoic.

Yes, it is we the taxpayer who fund this lifestyle. A lifestyle which as you highlight encourages damaging state defence property which of course we the taxpapyer have to pay for. It appears they have also caused destruction to state defence property in the United States with one of their members serving jail time for the offence. This is most definitely not a positive community in my opinion. Thank you ever so much for your observations Stoic!

To think there are millions of people worldwide living in poverty who would absolutely love the opportunity to contribute to British society and yet we have spongers like the Gianstefanis who offer absolutely nothing yet preach to us at the same time.

It may be an idea to create a new thread for the London Catholic Workers?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2011 12:49AM by Apollo.

The Gianstefani's make me sick with their cult shopping and media whoring. Now they have dragged their child into their travesty. His childhood is gone and that can't be reclaimed. What a miserable and rotten life they have inflicted on Danny. Sue, with her aggressive, argumentative, brash nature and Roland, with his robotic, cold personality and his lack of feelings must have made for total misery for Danny. I know from seeing Wife Swap that Roland and Sue so willingly took part in, that Danny was ashamed of them and of how they lived and he longed to be like other children his own age who had homes and normal parents.

I fully agree with everything Apollo, Stoic and Malcom Wrest is saying here. TOTAL agreement.

I say the Gianstefani's are neglectful and horrible parents who are using their son now to get themselves some more media attention which seems to be what they thrive on. Pick a cause, any cause and they will get themselves in front of the camera to get the chance to play victims and martyrs when in reality they are just wanting limelight on themselves.

As for their ability to suck the system dry, Sue and Roland made it plain in Wife Swap that felt fully entitled to bleed the beast in anyway they could. FREE health care, dental care, collecting the dole, using everything funded by those of us who do pay taxes while contributing absolutely NOTHING to society, in fact they do worse, they are a danger to society leading young people astray. I blame Sue and Roland for Bobby Kelly and I wonder how many others there have been that these two suckered into the arms of the cult. Now it is just going to be some other group and sadly their biggest victim is their own son who has been totally robbed of a childhood and who is being pushed forward to bring more attention to the Gianstefani's.

I believe Roland and Sue should be reported for child neglect. I believe there should be some investigation into Danny's life to see that he is free and has all that he needs. Eating from dumpsters might be alright for the adults but I object to a child being forced to eat this food or have nothing.

I also would support throwing these leaching Gianstefani's out of the country or making them get a job and pay taxes like anyone else or being charged for the all the services that they use that they do not pay for. Of course, this won't happen but I see no reason for anyone to defend them when they are almost as bad as McKay and in fact worse in some ways as they have an underage child that it seems they felt fine about exposing to paedophiles. Something tells me Danny will rebel at some point and we will see Danny on the Jeremy Kyle show exposing his tragic childhood within a cult and as a "prisoner" for all intents and purposes since his parents valued the strokes of McKay and were willing to sacrifice Danny for their own selfish need to be in the media and to be seen as such dutiful servants to McKay and now to some other cause.

It's like the Falun Gong business. The Jesus Christians didn't give a darn about the Falun Gong. It was a photo op for them.

I think that the Jesus Christians still should be held fully accountable for the abuses suffered to anyone who was abused by any person that McKay welcomed into the group and sheltered, knowing the perverted past of the paedophile and the opportunity to reoffend was handed on a platter to the criminal, by allowing him unrestricted access to children and even giving him the "sweeties" in the form of comic books to entice children to trust him.

McKay and the Jesus Christians have a lot to answer for and there is nothing heroic in McKay finally doing some pale effort by coming forward to that group who seems to care far more for the criminal than the victims. I don't give a darn about the paedophiles "feelings" or his treatment. I care about the victims and I'd like to see the perverts in jail with the key thrown away. I'd like to see the McKays, both of them since Cherry felt so loving as to write an article telling people to embrace perverts, locked in the cell next door to these perverts or better yet, in the same cell as a few of them and then let's see how gracious they feel towards perverts.

Blackhat, I don't understand how you term anything as a witch hunt and I don't see how you can defend the Gianstefani's in their upbringing of their son. Do you really feel Danny has had a fair chance? Do you think Danny will be equipt to face the real world and to get along with others or will be only know how to be an angry rebel without a cause or really, a rebel for any cause? Do you think Danny will have the necessary social skills required to make friends and to hold a job or will be be the same contrary and cold quarrelsome personalities we see in his parents? I expect he is going to require a great deal of therapy and again that will be funded by, you guess it. TAXPAYERS! I believe Roland is just bone idle and doesn't want to work period as we saw on Wife Swap. I believe he spent 1/2 a day at the job he was supposed to do and he just simply stated he didn't like it and he was not going back. Lazy git but happy to bleed the system. Next to the McKay's, I hold the Gianstefani's in the greatest contempt. There is just something so unpleasant about them, from Sue's disgusting laughter at cult victims on the Jeremy Kyle show to Rolands bully act he pulled for Dave McKay. Sue's completely combative miserable attitude to a little girl who could not eat the disgusting old mush and yet Sue berated the child to tears without any heart of a mother at all.

I'm all for doing anything to have the Gianstefani's investigated to see if Danny is alright.

Quote
AbundantLifeNow
Blackhat, I don't understand how you term anything as a witch hunt and I don't see how you can defend the Gianstefani's in their upbringing of their son. Do you really feel Danny has had a fair chance? Do you think Danny will be equipt to face the real world and to get along with others or will be only know how to be an angry rebel without a cause or really, a rebel for any cause

?


I reckon Danny knows how to spell "equipped".....

A number of wonderfully thoughtful preceding posts

I absolutely agree with Stoic,...that they haven't "recovered" from McKay if they are still primarily interested in garnering "media attention" for themselves(what McKay, the media whore, utterly lived for!).....the "paradigms" would be the same....some selfless community work (for a number of years) QUIETLY engaged in....would be more the "therapy" they need.....

Possibly, Roland (not the brightest "spark" in the world, but forever vainly imagining to himself that he was, when I knew him) will never be anything other than "McKay-lite"....he may not have it within himself, to even be honest enough, to admit to himself, that he is living out a prostitution of the "Gospel".....

You raise a number of important point ALN....in relation to the education of Danny.....Hello has made some comments about the quality of education available under "home schooling" programs, and I would agree with Blackhat, that many individuals have risen to some success with such an educational background.... Apollo's observation though, that the "commitment" to the (attention that can be derived from an association with the) Catholic Workers, may be depriving Danny of his education would be a serious indictment against the Gianstefani's....

Many home school children use the curriculum developed by the educational authorities in their respective countries, which are then made available to parents who select to educate their own children.....Have the Gianstefanis' even accessed this material? I do not know. (A simple meeting with Danny would quickly alert anyone responsible, though to any lack of exposure to say literacy or mathematics, in Daniel...)

I agree with you ALN, that for Danny to simply become a "rebel without a cause" (as his parents literally are now) would be a complete waste of his life.......I suspect (I admit that I don't know) that time in the "Catholic Workers" will actually expose McKay to be the shallow fraud that he always was, and will cause Danny to question his own parents devotion to the man.....