I was only referring to Sue and Roland. We seen in the Wife Swap episode how they have neglected their child due to their group think mentality. Former members have also highlighted it. Dan deserves to live in a stable environment where all he has to worry about is getting up in time for school. I don't believe he has that at the moment.

What chance does the poor kid have in life with parents like Sue and Roland?

Sometimes war is a necessity. If my country didn't go to war then we'd all be speaking German today. I don't know too much about the Catholic workers but if they think a little protest is going to in any way effect a court case or a countries decision to go to war then they are sadly mistaken. From what I can gather most of them spend their time in an out of jail. They may have decent motives but they go about it the wrong way from what I can see. These people don't live in the real world. There are far better ways to contribute to our society in a positive way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2011 12:02AM by Apollo.

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Blackhat

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Malcolm
The Catholic Workers are a wonderful institution that I would heartily endorse.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I'm glad that the Gianstefanis have found a relevant movement to support, instead of Dave McKay's dubious teachings which have little or no social value.

Well done, Sue, Roland and Danny!

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Apollo
These tree huggers need to get up off their arse and get a job instead of sponging off the tax payer. It is we who fund this lifestyle.

On the contrary, if society didn't have people like this, we would all be under the influence of the mass media and international cartels. We actually do need people who are prepared to dedicate their lives to overturning injustice and war.

What we didn't need was a group of people enslaved to following the religious teachings of Dave McKay.

Hear hear. I have to echo the sentiments expressed on this matter by both Malcolm and Blackhat : well done Gianstefanis!

From all reports, the Catholic Workers do work, do work hard, and do a lot of work that others don't care to even consider, for which we tax-payers are all a lot better off. They are very community-minded, but practice Christian trust in their dealings with each other and the world, which makes them a far more open and accountable community than the JCs ever were. They achieve much if not all that most members of the JC community would aspire to, because they don't get constant interference from a dictatorial leadership, and they don't have to waste time flogging anyone's silly books.

Do something positive with your time Sue and Roland. You have a lot to offer and it's not too late!!!!

[www.redcross.org.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2011 10:01PM by Apollo.

Stoic,

What's your thought's on the London Catholic Workers?

Does the Catholic church support them financially?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2011 11:23PM by Apollo.

I don't think that the Catholic church is in the business of financially supporting anyone--it usually expects to be supported by the congregation.

I had a look at their site, they seem to be a loose ecumenical organisation doing hands-on good works and agitating for peace.

[www.londoncatholicworker.org]

I am happy that the Gianstefanis have found a better community than the one they left but the speed with which the UK JCs have become Catholic Workers doesn't indicate that they have given much thought to what they have been up to for the past 20 odd years with Davejc.

If the cult mindset is unquestioned then it is still in place--just waiting for the next charismatic gobshite to reel them in.
Not a happy thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2011 07:58AM by Stoic.

Thanks Stoic,

It can't be healthy going from one ''community'' to the next in such a short space of time. It's clearly a more reputable group than the JCs (which wouldn't be hard to be fair). They don't have to answer to a psychotic cult leader for a start. Perhaps they do do some positive work but they also appear very bitter towards society and that can't be a healthy environment for a 16 year old lad who really should be concentrating on his education rather than trying to ''save the world'', and no doubt getting himself a criminal record in the process.

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Malcolm
The "Christians" first encountered the "Catholic Workers" in Brisbane in the early 80's. I think that the organization(unintentionally!) serves as a "half way" house, for those trying to escape the indoctrination of McKay and seeking to "reconfigure" their world (McKay would be aware of this and probably makes little more, than one snide remark after another, privately, to his flock, in relation to the Catholic Workers, in his email correspondence)....after all, that's how Grace escaped!!

A "half way house" for the victims of Dave McKay is a valuable thing, and I think that from all I have read, it is the best outcome for the Gianstefanis. I suspect they have been moving away from Dave to this movement for a while now.....

Let's not persue those who are trying other avenues than a cult, and let them be in their search for meaning. I'm actually sure Danny will be ok, and I won't be surprised to see him making his mark in 5 years or so....

He certainly has a better and more educated life than thousands of kids his age in British Housing Estates...so go report them first before you report the Gianstefanis.

The JC's in England would not have "joined" the London Catholic Workers...there has been no overt "transfer of allegiance".....although the association is certainly one that would "threaten" McKays hold over them (..in McKay's mind...the Catholic Workers are still money worshipping "systemites", just as much as the multinationals behemoths they oppose, as the Catholic Workers ultimately, still lack the "correct theology" (i.e. devotion to McKay indicated by acknowledging his authority, handing over your lifesavings to him and spending your waking hours selling him)

The JC's and the Catholic Workers (at least those in Brisbane Aust.) became aware of one another some 30 years ago......the "speed" with which they became more closely associated indicates that the remaining JC's are to some extent "free" of McKay, and represents long standing familiarity, between the two organizations...

The topic here is Dave McKay and his JC group.

Please stay focused on the topic.

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Apollo
Thanks Stoic,

It can't be healthy going from one ''community'' to the next in such a short space of time.

perhaps it can be. I expect that some communities might be so toxic that they poison one to even the most positive community alternative, which would be a pretty unhealthy situation, however if you were to emerge from your community experience with some regard for the remaining community members, if not for the teachings they follow or the discipline they subject themselves to, you could certainly then benefit from entering a healthy community environment.

I think a number of ex-JCs have followed that pattern, with a healthy community alternative providing them with the breathing space and environment in which to re-build an independant approach to life with the support and familiarity of a (different) community structure. If you've successfully subjected yourself to stringent community rules and unreasonable demands on your time, energy and other assets for a prolonged period of time, then as with nicotine, removing the crutch brings the danger of severe physical collapse/damage.

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Apollo
It's clearly a more reputable group than the JCs (which wouldn't be hard to be fair). They don't have to answer to a psychotic cult leader for a start.

quite.

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Apollo
Perhaps they do do some positive work but they also appear very bitter towards society and that can't be a healthy environment for a 16 year old lad who really should be concentrating on his education rather than trying to ''save the world'', and no doubt getting himself a criminal record in the process.

Well, I know it's good not to argue about religion, politics or sex, and I don't plan to mention sex at all just now, but must say, while it can be easy to confuse activism with bitterness toward society, most activists do have society's best interests at heart: like a parent knows what is in their childrens' best interests better than the children do themselves.

If activism doesn't work with education, then God help all the uni students, because they seem to make up the core demographic of activists world-wide. Don't underestimate Dann's thirst for education either, or his parents' wishes for him to access it. And at the same time, don't forget the Gianstefanis have been an almost independant micro-community of sorts, within the JCs, going back a while now.

Did they not part ways with the JCs over disagreements on child-rearing? Do you think Dave was pushing for them to allow Dann more freedom of education? I imagine that more likely they took a stand in the face of his attempts to micro-manage their family and limit Dann's academic choices, and if that is so, I say bravo Sue, Rols and Dann!