Drinking foot bath water and eating toenail clippings.
Well, here I am again to shed some light on the Truth. Some people have taken offence when foot bath water and toenail clippings are mentioned in association with Science of Identity founder, Chris Butler.
It would be a huge embarrassment to admit to falling for such utter nonsense and a truly disgusting ritual, so it’s no surprise that the truth is hard to find. I have confirmed that the foot bath water drinking
was practiced by the founder of the modern-day Hare Krishna movement. Since Chris Butler might have drunk from his Guru’s bath water, it makes sense that he would demand the same devotion from his owner followers – especially when CB is the self-appointed successor to His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.I am now convinced that Chris Butler’s own foot bath water was, and probably still is, consumed by his followers.
My research is typed below and the ritual is proven by the preponderance of the evidence, in case anyone wishes to sue the Science of Identity Foundation.
Regarding the eating of Jagad Guru’s toenails, there is an unlikely possibility that the reports are mere myth. Using the principle of Occam’s razor, I conclude that toenail eating is more likely true than not true
Read my research and decide for yourselves…
Vera City wrote in 2008
Here is a rare picture of a follower washing Chris Butler's feet. I do not know what they did with the foot water at the time.....
I do remember CB being particularly annoyed with this fawning follower. He said about him, "First to cry, first to dry." because he would cry at kirtans.
I do not know if he remained in the cult, but he did leave shortly after this photo was taken. And no, that is not a cup of Starbucks coffee to CB's left!
]Bhaktiyoga - practical III. (Tulsi Gabbard has publicly stated that she practices Bhakti Yoga)
Caranamrta is obtained in the morning while the Lord is being washed before dressing. Scented with perfumes and flowers, the water comes gliding down through His lotus feet and is collected and mixed with yogurt
. In this way this caranamrta not only becomes very tastefully flavored, but also has tremendous spiritual value
. As described in Padma Purana, even a person who has never been able to give in charity, who has never been able to perform a great sacrifice, who has never been able to study the Vedas, who has never been able to worship the Lord - or, in other words, even one who has never done any pious activities - will become eligible to enter into the kingdom of God if he simply drinks the caranamrta which is kept in the temple.
In the temple it is the custom that caranamrta be kept in a big pot. The devotees who come to visit and offer respects to the Deity take three drops of caranamrta very submissively and feel themselves happy in transcendental bliss. (The Nectar of Devotion, chapter 9)
Caranamrta should not be taken together with prasadam (as it is not a food); ideally it is served by pujari in the temple.
maui wrote in 2006
Ahh, the toenail thing. In the Vaishnava and in any hindu tradition nails and hair after they have left the body are considered to be muci (moochee) i.e. dirty and impure. The idea that something like nails is prasadam which should be eaten would be considered very non-traditional and gross and disgusting by the traditionalists. Nail clippings are considered to be on the level of stool (poop). So thinking that you will be "purified" by eating nails is ridiculous.
Zelig replied to Maui
Good to know. I was not aware that these things are also considered impure in the Hindu/Vaishnava traditions. As stated in my previous post, it is also the case in Middle Eastern, semitic, and Juadaic traditions as well.
One should consider the mind of someone who would conceive of such a practice. The level of revulsion and disgust Siddha must have for his followers to encourage this must be incredibly high --- like an abusive husband!
Dharmabum said in 2009
Maha Toenails. Yuck! Totally gross. Is that picture real? Hey Rama, I hope all the later generation in Haribol at least be half of you. The parents? I guess they all are hopeless. I just can't understand religious cult leaders. It's not enough for them to con people and shrink their brains with their religious nonsense, they will push the envelope even further. So sadistic! How further evil could these cult leaders get? Toenail chips and footwater drink? What's next? Laced Kool-Aid?
This Chris Butler, he's a bad man. Wake up, wake up!
Zelig said in 2007 (this open letter to Chris Butler is written in an honest, but scathing style)
“The level of cynicism and hatred towards humanity must have become so deep for you to offer your followers the most disgusting and dirty of things, full of darkness and impurity, while claiming it to be holy--- your toenail clippings and foot bath water. That you claim it to be maha prasadam is the height of arrogance and disrespect for other spirit souls.”
Does anyone have any information of a women named Shannon? She lived in Hawaii for a while, and then New Zealand. Was supposedly arround when CB was asked to leave, she had a journal the police found which talked about eating CB toe nails. CB basically told everyone not to associate with her. I am wandering if she is involved again or not?, and where she might be, she would have lots of pertinent information related to abuse by this group.
Just-Googling said in 2012
Well, well, well ... using black magic practices disguised as religion ... too weird.
Bravo, Dabcult, for finding this quote from Aleister Crowley, who was famous as a black magician in England and who was dubbed by some people as the most evil man in the world.
It is my impression that it was Wai Lana who started this practice of eating the nail clippings... Fortunately I did not have too many dealings with this Chinese woman, but when I did see her close up, I got nothing but spooky vibrations from her ~ an extremely PUFFED UP royalty vibration who considered other people to be mere peasants. No wonder Butler chose her as a partner - they are on the same level as far as lack of humility.
BLACK MAGICIANS WILL ALSO MAKE THEIR TARGET VICTIM EAT THEIR OWN NAIL CLIPPING ... TO GAIN CONTROL OF THEIR MINDS AND SPIRITS
There is no mention in their Vedic scriptures of anybody eating the nail clippings of a holy man to purify themselves as far as I can recollect ... There is mention of the dust of the lotus feet of Krishna ... but toe nails? This quote from Crowley might just wake up a few more people as to what is going here.
Vera City says in 2010
It was ENOUGH that he had followers put bags on their heads to humiliate and shame them…
It was ENOUGH that he served up his vile toe nails and foot water as something holy...
It was ENOUGH that he has his followers pray for his protection after a member committed suicide… rather than look at the groups dynamics or how he could have helped, he is fearful of the suicides spirit soul…
It was ENOUGH that he claims to be G0d’s best friend, but lives in mortal fear of germs and ghosts…
Dharmabum says in 2010
I was watching the Jim Jones Documentary the other night. I didn't know that before the mass suicide, I mean murder, the drinking of the Kool Aid were more like an exercise. I just didn't get how regular they were. And Jim Jones was actually a cool dude. He was into multiracialism, eco-friendliness, counter culture and of course anti-establishment too. It just brought chill to my bones when that reminded me of the same practice Haribols do when they drink the foot wash and partake the cut toe nails of Chris Butler. I mean compare Kool Aid to foot wash and toe nails? It's like Chris Butler not wanting to be outdone. I would kill myself first, if forced to ingest those. I can say it now, but I sort of witnessed that when I was still there. During a puja the disciples were having a commotion over a metal bowl of water I heard was a foot wash that just came from the room of the guru. I was too junior to gain access. In fact I remember getting sprinkled. Yuck! In fact anything that came in contact with the guru were considered MAJA, a sort of pure, cleansing power that benefits the soul big time. Speaking of exploitative mambo-jumbo. For people to drink what they were told to be poisoned Kool Aid is the same psychology as when you eat the toe nails and drink the foot wash; that requires 110% obedience. It's not funny anymore, especially when you still have loved ones in there. This guy Butler must be really, really sick. Feeding your subjects foot wash and toe nails could be the most disgusting and sickest trick you could test your servants' loyalty by. WHAT'S NEXT THEN? Isn't this serious enough for the authority to investigate or perhaps to step in? Weren't there postings from Australia before about one guy admitting that he had done that? Man, this is pretty serious, and just for the record that before the worst could happen, that this subject were brought up. I feel like throwing up.
Dharmabum said in 2008
Dassi, I left in early 80s... I witnessed the maha foot wash. Some drank; some just wet their hair with it. It was passed to me, I did not inhale. The left-over’s; yes, that's true. I never witnessed the toe nails though, but heard a lot about it. It was common knowledge…
Angelover said in 2005:
Toe nail eaters. I know this happened. It is actually promoted to worship the feet of a holy person, so there for there is a practice of worshiping shoes that have been on Siddha. Sneakers! Its kind of funny looking.
Ok, so I can understand the concept of worshiping, and even seeing a holy persons feet as holy. But, what I dont understand is EATING the toe nail of Chris B. Its a noble act of faith? Ok I can see some beauty in that.
Does this make sense to any of you?
Are any of you people that have eaten the toe nails yourself out here in cyber space?
Henry (Dabcult) said in 2012
Today I had an hour phone conversation
with the son of a long time devotee of BUTLER ...one that that use to smoke HASH with SAI when he was 16 or 17 years old.
That young man as ask me not to reveal his name because one of his parents still worship "Jagad GURU " and 50% of his brothers and sisters
still gravitate around the cult.
That man now in his early 30 ies was in the school of MIKE GABBARD ( a strict diciplinarian and a DICK ) he told me
He went to school with the Gabbards childrens and knew them all ...and withness first hand how Mike treated his famaly ....discipline to the max .
He told me that Bhakti Gabbard ...became the most disfonctional child of the GABBARD and was heavely involve for a time in drugs ....and MALE PROSTITUTION (thats his words )He witness many times BUTLER antihomosexual tirades from the horse mouth himself....and he told me that it took many years of psychotherapy to get some deprogrammation...from BUTLER antihomosexual hatred ...and the need to have BUTLER as his guru as recomended by his parents ..who also have sent lots of money for the HAWAII political campaigns.
He confirm that as a child he was told that BUTLER ....TOES and finger nails where often mix in the soups so as to everyone get a bit of the nectar.
Zelig says in 2006
Radha Krishna das (a then-current follower of CB)
“Toenails are maha prashadam - purifying. I have had the glory of eating them myself. That anyone could find that disgusting when they consume the dead flesh of an animal or the menstrual cycle of a chicken is beyond me.”
This is a ridiculous argument because most of the people here are vegetarians! I’m trying hard not to laugh. “I have had the glory of eating them…” In many spiritual traditions it is acknowledged that what you put in your mouth affects your consciousness, (e.g,. eating vegetarian vs eating meat). I find this practice (toenail eating) particularly interesting because according to Jewish mysticism (also in Islamic and oriental cultures) the feet are considered to be spiritually unclean. In Middle Eastern cultures, being touched by someone’s shoe is the greatest insult indicating that you are the lowest of the low. In many countries from Hawaii, Japan to Afghanistan shoes are kept outside of the home on the door step.
I am not religious and do not belong to any congregation. CB cured me of that. But, I have friends of many spiritual persuasions and enjoy the company of learned people who do not try to hook or hoodwink me. One is a Hassidic Rabbi. I told him the toenail eating story. He shared with me that observant Jews (as well as Rabbis) bury or burn nail clippings because they are considered to contain the darkest and densest energies or “klipot” (literally translated as “husks” that cover one’s higher consciousness). An old wives tale speaks of pregnant women who walk over nail clippings will miscarry. What to speak of eating the nails! The Rabbi felt that the person encouraging others to eat these things does not have a good intention. Not only is this practice of toenail eating horrifying from a hygienic stand point, but also from a spiritual one. If you eat the toenails of a person, you will be affected not only by the bacteria and fungus, but also by a darkness that will affect your consciousness. Besides, you can no longer call yourself a vegetarian, but a cannibal.
CB followers will of course argue that he has pure “lotus feet”. They choose to believe this in spite of evidence to the contrary, either by brainwashing or an investment in their position of power. CB’s socks and underwear smell just as bad as everyone else’s. Anyone who has ever been in his personal service (as I have) will attest.
Quotes from CB himself in 2004 or earlier:
“ You spend a fuggen 100,000 dollars on this air machine and I still have to use an oxygen bottle, can’t you guys do anything right??”
“What you expect me to breath common air?? A-holes!!”
“What? Just because you come here and clean my floor and wash my dishes, eat my toenails and drink my footwater you think you have the right to talk to me, write me a letter a-hole.”
Meanreds writes in 2007
Senator Mike Gabbard (AKA Krishna Katha das) is a disciple of Chris Butler AKA Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa and eats his toenail clippings and drinks his foot water as spiritually purify food.
SoI Kills wrote in 2008:
Don't be bashful. If you don't know what they did with the water, the senior disciples drank it, and distributed it amongst the other followers openly or covertly.
It is highly auspicious within ISKCON to drink this water, as Bhaktivedanta wrote:
"The dust of the feet of a devotee, the water that has washed the feet of a devotee, and the remnants of food left by a devotee are three very powerful substances.
By rendering service to these three, one attains the supreme goal of ecstatic love for Krishna. In all the revealed scriptures this is loudly declared again and again.
Therefore, my dear devotees, please hear from me, for I insist again and again: please keep faith in these three and render service to them without hesitation.
By 'rendering service to' means 'consuming'. Wasn't it Z who said he was fighting over and stealing the food that was covered in Butler's spit. On this note Chris did not deviate from ISKCON.
This is extremely creepy:
"Prabhupada’s feet had been sinking into the sand, and when he held one foot out it was muddy. As he wriggled his toes, a devotee poured water on the foot, washing it clean. Prabhupada then bent over, put ocean water in his mouth, and spat it out. Only Guru-krpa Swami was quick enough to catch some of the water and drink it."
It is disgusting but common practice. They don't just throw that stuff away. The toenail thing is extremely wierd by anyone's standard.
This is a cast of Bhaktivedanta's feet for sale that a devotee can use to bathe his feet and "catch the water" for an unspecified purpose.
A life-size casting of the footprints of Srila Prabhuapda's lotus feet. Arranged so one can easily bathe the lotus feet of Srila Prabhuapda and capture the water.
frances88 wrote in 2009
I would also like to mention the drinking of foot bath water by devotees that are higher up in ranks. I have only heard this through the grapevine but I would not put it past Chris Butler to convince others that this is appropriate behaviour. Apparently it is considered a huge honour to be given the privilege of washing the feet of the Guru, which supposedly was historically done to Krishna? And doing this act instills the feeling of "service" to the master.
Dharmabum wrote in 2012
“The next day when I came in I was handed my pay and given my marching orders. I was young and this was my first lesson in learning to keep my mouth shut before understanding clearly who I was dealing with.”
What you witnessed wasn't meant to be seen by outsiders. It was just a glimpse to much more quacks that that are too weird to us but to them are considered holy. Hiring you as a cook could have been a mistake or an act of desperation. Whoever was responsible for that I won't be surprised could have been grilled or even fired. What you saw was mild. They drink the foot wash water of Chris Butler and mix his toe nail cuts with their food or eat them medium rare to raw. Anything from the guru they consider holy and will help purify the soul. I don't know what else body waste they partake, I don't wanna know, but won't surprise me either. Eww.
The rituals are so ideally romantic to read about until you practice them on a daily basis, and people do cheat. If you run a business like Down To Earth, it's almost impossible to let's say care for the deity; which they give bath to daily like a baby, with rose water and drink the wash water as well. Thus, the filth you saw, which I'm sure they would not want the guru to hear about. Everybody cuts corner, so do they. Despite their effort of looking mainstream from the outside they practice ancient rituals that are too weird for outsiders to know, let alone see. Well, thank your lucky star. If they think you're an invaluable cook, chances are you would have been among them, worst, kept you as private cook for that weird guru, whose enjoyment is to curse at his staff and all the people around him, except of course the Queen Bee. These people are the weirds of weird.
SoI Kills wrote in 2008
Mike Gabbard has given up his own will a long time ago - he has knelt down before an LSD tripping surfer bum and drank his foot water for salvation. He has arrange married his daughter to another big disciple family - how is that for family values?
Mike Gabbard is scum. Please become informed and don't be conned by this cult.
MeanReds wrote in 2007
A surfer bum on an island beginnings hypnotizing his fellow surfers to gain submissive worship is interesting. The way Siddha repeats his sentences using different phrasing over and over, and suggests that followers should listen to his lectures regularly certainly shows that he is expoiting those who come in contact with his cult searching for knowledge by indoctrinating them and turning people into his personal slaves. Curious people who are new to this religion are shown how attractive the philosophy is, then fed up with delicious foot-water cooked food, seranaded with nice music, taught relaxation techniques to have them feeling good before playing a mind control tape which turns them into robots.
zombiefied wrote in 2012
I have not shared my experience with many and I feel I am ready now.I actually have 9 chapters of my book so far on what it was like being in this cult.As I share here i will refere to chris as cb and his zombies cbers..
With that said I was a cber for 10 years.I left for good a year and a half ago.I was worried about sharing anything because i felt the fool for being douped for so long and also because i was so sad.I considered the cb women to be longtime sisters and that part was hard,however I was also and still am angry with this narcisstic man who claims to be as good as God...Yep I drank the foot water(yuck)They didnt even tell me thats what it was,they offered me "maha"i thought it was offered to cb,i had no idea(omg)
Lots of rage about Chris Butler at the above web page.
3) SIDDHASWAUPA Swami (Chris Butler)
[PADA: Here we go again. Another bogus guru is apparently "going mad."
Again! Over the years we heard rumors that: Siddhaswarupa's team was
shipping samples of his bath water from Hawaii to New Zealand for people to
drink as "maha-water"; rumors of his a private airplane; rumors many of his
followers were using and / or selling pot and other drugs; rumors he ran
off with the wife of a follower and forced her husband to divorce her;
rumors of countless business scams; rumors he kicks people out after they
collected thousands of dollars for "the guru"; rumors he swears and curses
at people; rumors he wants to breathe from an oxgen tank since "regular
air" is too contaminated for the pure devotee; rumors he said the bird flu
was going to wipe out the world as a means of terrifying his followers;
rumors he spends elaborately for his own self and not very much for "the
mission," and so on and so forth. All this is either smoke, or maybe there
is a fire? And is this not what happens to most of the bogus GBC's