Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 26, 2012 03:09AM

Anyone have a copy of the Back to Godhead magazine with the article written about or by Siddhaswarupananda Goswami (Chris Butler) about joining ISKCON? Does anyone know the date/year when he left the Honolulu temple and hid out on Kauai and started his own group? It was before Watergate, before June of 1972. Siddha already had his little temple on Kauai for a while with its sign "Krishna, Beyond Mystic Liquid" (or was that a holdover from Sai days?) So he didn't last long under the authority of the then Honolulu ISKCON temple President (Goursundar das?) and didn't get along with the other devotees there. Gaursundar remained friends for a while. He even gave a joint lecture with him. He had a strong intellect and scholarly bent that Siddha lacked. They eventually had a falling out.

I know that within a year or two of Sai sending his former followers around the world to ISKCON temples that many returned to Hawaii. Some leaving their husbands and wives to be with him again. The pattern remains the same. Tusta ran his own ISKCON temple in New Zealand but remained faithful to Sai till his death.

Butler did take a trip to Los Angeles sometime in 1971 to see ACB and some of his old followers. He also went to San Francisco and other parts of California to invite and collect new and old followers to Hawaii. One of my sources met him and joined him on this trip. A lot of his former disciples did not like ISKCON at all. The noise and smog of the cities and the high sugar and white flour/ white rice diet did not appeal. People in ISKCON were nasty to each other and fanatical. You could get yelled at for not rolling out a perfectly circular chapatti or other trivial things. No one liked to go out in the streets and airports soliciting. No more surfing. They longed to return to Paradise and their leader.

It did not take long for Sai to un-surrender and have old loyalists like Katyayani, Tusta, Phenop and Kamala spread the rumors of his being a humble, pure devotee and tales of his mystical powers (but he of course "renounced" them...LOL) to his new converts.... but now he was returning on the back of the parampara. He had ACB in his pocket...or rather let ACB's hands in his pocket full of money. The old guy knew a good business opportunity! Give the kid legitimacy in exchange for some cold, hard cash.

Life was easier and felt more spiritual on the Islands. It was easy to believe that Siddha was the real deal because he lived like a sadhu in a simple hut with no electricity. He would give intimate talks, was accessible, joked around, surfed, ate, and chanted with everyone regularly. It was uncool to put down another person for not practicing Bhakti yoga correctly and no one counted how many rounds of japa you did a day.

Even though the seeds of narcissism and a megalomaniacal personality had been sprouting all along, it became more visible as Butler started businesses. But by then it was too late for the followers to see the truth. He had enough minions to blindly and zealously support any of his projects without question, and for free. He bought the first health food store on Kauai. Then he opened one on Maui with a gas station and a gift store. Later on he also opened Down to Earth in Honolulu.

He cut an album, which failed, trashing his rock star ambitions. As time went by he withdrew more and more, rarely appearing before his faithful. He started to record lectures and write books instead of mingling with the multitudes. Feeding them tapes and myths, he delegated leadership to his faithful lieutenants to maintain control. He became more and more critical and punitive. He would periodically disappear when his followers would get too familiar. His threatening to “leave the planet” if they didn’t please him was another way of exerting control. I wonder if he did this at KYC?

And then he got the idea to start a newspaper and get into politics… He went from simple living to luxury condos with a staff of cooks and housekeepers and gofers. He assumed full King of the World status after ACB died including wife and pretty much anything else he damn well pleased….
Just putting the pieces of the puzzle together.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: November 26, 2012 04:19AM

Drinking foot bath water and eating toenail clippings.
Well, here I am again to shed some light on the Truth. Some people have taken offence when foot bath water and toenail clippings are mentioned in association with Science of Identity founder, Chris Butler.
It would be a huge embarrassment to admit to falling for such utter nonsense and a truly disgusting ritual, so it’s no surprise that the truth is hard to find. I have confirmed that the foot bath water drinking was practiced by the founder of the modern-day Hare Krishna movement. Since Chris Butler might have drunk from his Guru’s bath water, it makes sense that he would demand the same devotion from his owner followers – especially when CB is the self-appointed successor to His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

I am now convinced that Chris Butler’s own foot bath water was, and probably still is, consumed by his followers. My research is typed below and the ritual is proven by the preponderance of the evidence, in case anyone wishes to sue the Science of Identity Foundation.
Regarding the eating of Jagad Guru’s toenails, there is an unlikely possibility that the reports are mere myth. Using the principle of Occam’s razor, I conclude that toenail eating is more likely true than not true.
Read my research and decide for yourselves…


Vera City wrote in 2008

Here is a rare picture of a follower washing Chris Butler's feet. I do not know what they did with the foot water at the time.....
I do remember CB being particularly annoyed with this fawning follower. He said about him, "First to cry, first to dry." because he would cry at kirtans.
I do not know if he remained in the cult, but he did leave shortly after this photo was taken. And no, that is not a cup of Starbucks coffee to CB's left!






Bhaktiyoga - practical III. (Tulsi Gabbard has publicly stated that she practices Bhakti Yoga)


Caranamrta is obtained in the morning while the Lord is being washed before dressing. Scented with perfumes and flowers, the water comes gliding down through His lotus feet and is collected and mixed with yogurt. In this way this caranamrta not only becomes very tastefully flavored, but also has tremendous spiritual value. As described in Padma Purana, even a person who has never been able to give in charity, who has never been able to perform a great sacrifice, who has never been able to study the Vedas, who has never been able to worship the Lord - or, in other words, even one who has never done any pious activities - will become eligible to enter into the kingdom of God if he simply drinks the caranamrta which is kept in the temple.

In the temple it is the custom that caranamrta be kept in a big pot. The devotees who come to visit and offer respects to the Deity take three drops of caranamrta very submissively and feel themselves happy in transcendental bliss. (The Nectar of Devotion, chapter 9)

Caranamrta should not be taken together with prasadam (as it is not a food); ideally it is served by pujari in the temple.



maui wrote in 2006
Ahh, the toenail thing. In the Vaishnava and in any hindu tradition nails and hair after they have left the body are considered to be muci (moochee) i.e. dirty and impure. The idea that something like nails is prasadam which should be eaten would be considered very non-traditional and gross and disgusting by the traditionalists. Nail clippings are considered to be on the level of stool (poop). So thinking that you will be "purified" by eating nails is ridiculous.


Zelig replied to Maui

Good to know. I was not aware that these things are also considered impure in the Hindu/Vaishnava traditions. As stated in my previous post, it is also the case in Middle Eastern, semitic, and Juadaic traditions as well.

One should consider the mind of someone who would conceive of such a practice. The level of revulsion and disgust Siddha must have for his followers to encourage this must be incredibly high --- like an abusive husband!


Dharmabum said in 2009

Maha Toenails. Yuck! Totally gross. Is that picture real? Hey Rama, I hope all the later generation in Haribol at least be half of you. The parents? I guess they all are hopeless. I just can't understand religious cult leaders. It's not enough for them to con people and shrink their brains with their religious nonsense, they will push the envelope even further. So sadistic! How further evil could these cult leaders get? Toenail chips and footwater drink? What's next? Laced Kool-Aid?

This Chris Butler, he's a bad man. Wake up, wake up!


Zelig said in 2007 (this open letter to Chris Butler is written in an honest, but scathing style)

“The level of cynicism and hatred towards humanity must have become so deep for you to offer your followers the most disgusting and dirty of things, full of darkness and impurity, while claiming it to be holy--- your toenail clippings and foot bath water. That you claim it to be maha prasadam is the height of arrogance and disrespect for other spirit souls.”

Does anyone have any information of a women named Shannon? She lived in Hawaii for a while, and then New Zealand. Was supposedly arround when CB was asked to leave, she had a journal the police found which talked about eating CB toe nails. CB basically told everyone not to associate with her. I am wandering if she is involved again or not?, and where she might be, she would have lots of pertinent information related to abuse by this group.


Just-Googling said in 2012

Well, well, well ... using black magic practices disguised as religion ... too weird.

Bravo, Dabcult, for finding this quote from Aleister Crowley, who was famous as a black magician in England and who was dubbed by some people as the most evil man in the world.

It is my impression that it was Wai Lana who started this practice of eating the nail clippings... Fortunately I did not have too many dealings with this Chinese woman, but when I did see her close up, I got nothing but spooky vibrations from her ~ an extremely PUFFED UP royalty vibration who considered other people to be mere peasants. No wonder Butler chose her as a partner - they are on the same level as far as lack of humility.


There is no mention in their Vedic scriptures of anybody eating the nail clippings of a holy man to purify themselves as far as I can recollect ... There is mention of the dust of the lotus feet of Krishna ... but toe nails? This quote from Crowley might just wake up a few more people as to what is going here.


Vera City says in 2010

It was ENOUGH that he had followers put bags on their heads to humiliate and shame them…

It was ENOUGH that he served up his vile toe nails and foot water as something holy...

It was ENOUGH that he has his followers pray for his protection after a member committed suicide… rather than look at the groups dynamics or how he could have helped, he is fearful of the suicides spirit soul…

It was ENOUGH that he claims to be G0d’s best friend, but lives in mortal fear of germs and ghosts…


Dharmabum says in 2010
I was watching the Jim Jones Documentary the other night. I didn't know that before the mass suicide, I mean murder, the drinking of the Kool Aid were more like an exercise. I just didn't get how regular they were. And Jim Jones was actually a cool dude. He was into multiracialism, eco-friendliness, counter culture and of course anti-establishment too. It just brought chill to my bones when that reminded me of the same practice Haribols do when they drink the foot wash and partake the cut toe nails of Chris Butler. I mean compare Kool Aid to foot wash and toe nails? It's like Chris Butler not wanting to be outdone. I would kill myself first, if forced to ingest those. I can say it now, but I sort of witnessed that when I was still there. During a puja the disciples were having a commotion over a metal bowl of water I heard was a foot wash that just came from the room of the guru. I was too junior to gain access. In fact I remember getting sprinkled. Yuck! In fact anything that came in contact with the guru were considered MAJA, a sort of pure, cleansing power that benefits the soul big time. Speaking of exploitative mambo-jumbo. For people to drink what they were told to be poisoned Kool Aid is the same psychology as when you eat the toe nails and drink the foot wash; that requires 110% obedience. It's not funny anymore, especially when you still have loved ones in there. This guy Butler must be really, really sick. Feeding your subjects foot wash and toe nails could be the most disgusting and sickest trick you could test your servants' loyalty by. WHAT'S NEXT THEN? Isn't this serious enough for the authority to investigate or perhaps to step in? Weren't there postings from Australia before about one guy admitting that he had done that? Man, this is pretty serious, and just for the record that before the worst could happen, that this subject were brought up. I feel like throwing up.


Dharmabum said in 2008
Dassi, I left in early 80s... I witnessed the maha foot wash. Some drank; some just wet their hair with it. It was passed to me, I did not inhale. The left-over’s; yes, that's true. I never witnessed the toe nails though, but heard a lot about it. It was common knowledge…

Angelover said in 2005:
Toe nail eaters. I know this happened. It is actually promoted to worship the feet of a holy person, so there for there is a practice of worshiping shoes that have been on Siddha. Sneakers! Its kind of funny looking.
Ok, so I can understand the concept of worshiping, and even seeing a holy persons feet as holy. But, what I dont understand is EATING the toe nail of Chris B. Its a noble act of faith? Ok I can see some beauty in that.

Does this make sense to any of you?

Are any of you people that have eaten the toe nails yourself out here in cyber space?


Henry (Dabcult) said in 2012

Today I had an hour phone conversation
with the son of a long time devotee of BUTLER that that use to smoke HASH with SAI when he was 16 or 17 years old.
That young man as ask me not to reveal his name because one of his parents still worship "Jagad GURU " and 50% of his brothers and sisters
still gravitate around the cult.

That man now in his early 30 ies was in the school of MIKE GABBARD ( a strict diciplinarian and a DICK ) he told me
He went to school with the Gabbards childrens and knew them all ...and withness first hand how Mike treated his famaly ....discipline to the max .
He told me that Bhakti Gabbard ...became the most disfonctional child of the GABBARD and was heavely involve for a time in drugs ....and MALE PROSTITUTION (thats his words )He witness many times BUTLER antihomosexual tirades from the horse mouth himself....and he told me that it took many years of psychotherapy to get some deprogrammation...from BUTLER antihomosexual hatred ...and the need to have BUTLER as his guru as recomended by his parents ..who also have sent lots of money for the HAWAII political campaigns.
He confirm that as a child he was told that BUTLER ....TOES and finger nails where often mix in the soups so as to everyone get a bit of the nectar.


Zelig says in 2006

Radha Krishna das (a then-current follower of CB)
“Toenails are maha prashadam - purifying. I have had the glory of eating them myself. That anyone could find that disgusting when they consume the dead flesh of an animal or the menstrual cycle of a chicken is beyond me.”

This is a ridiculous argument because most of the people here are vegetarians! I’m trying hard not to laugh. “I have had the glory of eating them…” In many spiritual traditions it is acknowledged that what you put in your mouth affects your consciousness, (e.g,. eating vegetarian vs eating meat). I find this practice (toenail eating) particularly interesting because according to Jewish mysticism (also in Islamic and oriental cultures) the feet are considered to be spiritually unclean. In Middle Eastern cultures, being touched by someone’s shoe is the greatest insult indicating that you are the lowest of the low. In many countries from Hawaii, Japan to Afghanistan shoes are kept outside of the home on the door step.

I am not religious and do not belong to any congregation. CB cured me of that. But, I have friends of many spiritual persuasions and enjoy the company of learned people who do not try to hook or hoodwink me. One is a Hassidic Rabbi. I told him the toenail eating story. He shared with me that observant Jews (as well as Rabbis) bury or burn nail clippings because they are considered to contain the darkest and densest energies or “klipot” (literally translated as “husks” that cover one’s higher consciousness). An old wives tale speaks of pregnant women who walk over nail clippings will miscarry. What to speak of eating the nails! The Rabbi felt that the person encouraging others to eat these things does not have a good intention. Not only is this practice of toenail eating horrifying from a hygienic stand point, but also from a spiritual one. If you eat the toenails of a person, you will be affected not only by the bacteria and fungus, but also by a darkness that will affect your consciousness. Besides, you can no longer call yourself a vegetarian, but a cannibal.

CB followers will of course argue that he has pure “lotus feet”. They choose to believe this in spite of evidence to the contrary, either by brainwashing or an investment in their position of power. CB’s socks and underwear smell just as bad as everyone else’s. Anyone who has ever been in his personal service (as I have) will attest.

Quotes from CB himself in 2004 or earlier:

“ You spend a fuggen 100,000 dollars on this air machine and I still have to use an oxygen bottle, can’t you guys do anything right??”

“What you expect me to breath common air?? A-holes!!”

“What? Just because you come here and clean my floor and wash my dishes, eat my toenails and drink my footwater you think you have the right to talk to me, write me a letter a-hole.”


Meanreds writes in 2007

Senator Mike Gabbard (AKA Krishna Katha das) is a disciple of Chris Butler AKA Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa and eats his toenail clippings and drinks his foot water as spiritually purify food.

SoI Kills wrote in 2008:

Don't be bashful. If you don't know what they did with the water, the senior disciples drank it, and distributed it amongst the other followers openly or covertly.

It is highly auspicious within ISKCON to drink this water, as Bhaktivedanta wrote:


"The dust of the feet of a devotee, the water that has washed the feet of a devotee, and the remnants of food left by a devotee are three very powerful substances.

By rendering service to these three, one attains the supreme goal of ecstatic love for Krishna. In all the revealed scriptures this is loudly declared again and again.

Therefore, my dear devotees, please hear from me, for I insist again and again: please keep faith in these three and render service to them without hesitation.



By 'rendering service to' means 'consuming'. Wasn't it Z who said he was fighting over and stealing the food that was covered in Butler's spit. On this note Chris did not deviate from ISKCON.

This is extremely creepy:

"Prabhupada’s feet had been sinking into the sand, and when he held one foot out it was muddy. As he wriggled his toes, a devotee poured water on the foot, washing it clean. Prabhupada then bent over, put ocean water in his mouth, and spat it out. Only Guru-krpa Swami was quick enough to catch some of the water and drink it."

It is disgusting but common practice. They don't just throw that stuff away. The toenail thing is extremely wierd by anyone's standard.


This is a cast of Bhaktivedanta's feet for sale that a devotee can use to bathe his feet and "catch the water" for an unspecified purpose.

A life-size casting of the footprints of Srila Prabhuapda's lotus feet. Arranged so one can easily bathe the lotus feet of Srila Prabhuapda and capture the water.


frances88 wrote in 2009

I would also like to mention the drinking of foot bath water by devotees that are higher up in ranks. I have only heard this through the grapevine but I would not put it past Chris Butler to convince others that this is appropriate behaviour. Apparently it is considered a huge honour to be given the privilege of washing the feet of the Guru, which supposedly was historically done to Krishna? And doing this act instills the feeling of "service" to the master.


Dharmabum wrote in 2012

“The next day when I came in I was handed my pay and given my marching orders. I was young and this was my first lesson in learning to keep my mouth shut before understanding clearly who I was dealing with.”

What you witnessed wasn't meant to be seen by outsiders. It was just a glimpse to much more quacks that that are too weird to us but to them are considered holy. Hiring you as a cook could have been a mistake or an act of desperation. Whoever was responsible for that I won't be surprised could have been grilled or even fired. What you saw was mild. They drink the foot wash water of Chris Butler and mix his toe nail cuts with their food or eat them medium rare to raw. Anything from the guru they consider holy and will help purify the soul. I don't know what else body waste they partake, I don't wanna know, but won't surprise me either. Eww.

The rituals are so ideally romantic to read about until you practice them on a daily basis, and people do cheat. If you run a business like Down To Earth, it's almost impossible to let's say care for the deity; which they give bath to daily like a baby, with rose water and drink the wash water as well. Thus, the filth you saw, which I'm sure they would not want the guru to hear about. Everybody cuts corner, so do they. Despite their effort of looking mainstream from the outside they practice ancient rituals that are too weird for outsiders to know, let alone see. Well, thank your lucky star. If they think you're an invaluable cook, chances are you would have been among them, worst, kept you as private cook for that weird guru, whose enjoyment is to curse at his staff and all the people around him, except of course the Queen Bee. These people are the weirds of weird.


SoI Kills wrote in 2008

Mike Gabbard has given up his own will a long time ago - he has knelt down before an LSD tripping surfer bum and drank his foot water for salvation. He has arrange married his daughter to another big disciple family - how is that for family values?

Mike Gabbard is scum. Please become informed and don't be conned by this cult.


MeanReds wrote in 2007

A surfer bum on an island beginnings hypnotizing his fellow surfers to gain submissive worship is interesting. The way Siddha repeats his sentences using different phrasing over and over, and suggests that followers should listen to his lectures regularly certainly shows that he is expoiting those who come in contact with his cult searching for knowledge by indoctrinating them and turning people into his personal slaves. Curious people who are new to this religion are shown how attractive the philosophy is, then fed up with delicious foot-water cooked food, seranaded with nice music, taught relaxation techniques to have them feeling good before playing a mind control tape which turns them into robots.


zombiefied wrote in 2012

I have not shared my experience with many and I feel I am ready now.I actually have 9 chapters of my book so far on what it was like being in this cult.As I share here i will refere to chris as cb and his zombies cbers..
With that said I was a cber for 10 years.I left for good a year and a half ago.I was worried about sharing anything because i felt the fool for being douped for so long and also because i was so sad.I considered the cb women to be longtime sisters and that part was hard,however I was also and still am angry with this narcisstic man who claims to be as good as God...Yep I drank the foot water(yuck)They didnt even tell me thats what it was,they offered me "maha"i thought it was offered to cb,i had no idea(omg)


Lots of rage about Chris Butler at the above web page.

3) SIDDHASWAUPA Swami (Chris Butler)

[PADA: Here we go again. Another bogus guru is apparently "going mad."
Again! Over the years we heard rumors that: Siddhaswarupa's team was
shipping samples of his bath water from Hawaii to New Zealand for people to
drink as "maha-water"; rumors of his a private airplane; rumors many of his
followers were using and / or selling pot and other drugs; rumors he ran
off with the wife of a follower and forced her husband to divorce her;
rumors of countless business scams; rumors he kicks people out after they
collected thousands of dollars for "the guru"; rumors he swears and curses
at people; rumors he wants to breathe from an oxgen tank since "regular
air" is too contaminated for the pure devotee; rumors he said the bird flu
was going to wipe out the world as a means of terrifying his followers;
rumors he spends elaborately for his own self and not very much for "the
mission," and so on and so forth. All this is either smoke, or maybe there
is a fire? And is this not what happens to most of the bogus GBC's

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: privateye ()
Date: November 26, 2012 05:07AM

This may be of help.


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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: November 26, 2012 05:28AM

This may be of help.


Yes indeed! Thanks so very much.

A few gems:


Letter to Siddha Svarupananda -- Los Angeles 15 June, 1972

Laguna Beach

My Dear Siddha Svarupananda, (Chris Butler)

Please accept my blessings. Just now I am in receipt of some pamphlets and one booklet entitled "Sai Speaks, so I see so many discrepancies from our line of action in devotional service. I do not know if you are again acting upon your old principles on the guise of becoming a Sannyasi from our disciplic succession. This cannot be allowed. If you are sincere to our line of action, please come here to Los Angeles and live with me for some time. If not, then you can disclose your mind frankly what you want to do. I cannot allow you to do all these things which are completely detrimental to our line of disciplic succession.

I shall be glad if you come here to stay with me, so I shall expect your reply one way or the other. Meanwhile hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami


The $28,000 plus $800 contributed by Sai may not be touched for any other purpose until you hear from me. Dai Nippon's debt regarding BTG should be liquidated by the Department of BTG. Why the debt should be cleared with a contribution which Krsna has sent for another purpose? I can understand that from London the payment is not regularly coming from the very beginning, so in order to counteract this anomaly I shall be sending someone out of the four important members to check out the condition of London. Most probably Hamsaduta will very soon go there. (The source of the $28,800 cash delivered by CB has never been discovered and was a huge sum in 1970)


That Gaurasundara and Siddha-svarupa have sold the Temple in Hawaii and abandoned the beautiful Tulasi plants there is a great fall down on their parts. They did not ask my permission. If they wanted to go away they could have, but they had no right to sell the Temple. It is actually a criminal act on their part. Anyone who follows them will also fall down without a doubt.

(CB accused of a criminal act by his own religious leader)

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: November 26, 2012 07:54AM

So much informations posted just in the last week ........ Bravo and thanks to ll

Memories of my time then become more clear when i now understand the context

I remember Butler telling me that he went to San Francisco temple to surrender .........and he was put for a few days chanting in the streets
of the city .......sometimes he told me he was chanting for no one in front of a wall in he streets he told me that why he decided to come back to Maui ...I must have arrived just after he came back from his effort to "SURRENDER "
The man in charge of the temple at the time San Francisco and Los angeles where the brothers KARANDAR and KESHAVA
they where ex con and ex heroin addict ....that had taken over those Hare Krishna temples
Butler told me that he was extremaly "AFRAID of them "....and its probably why he came back to HAWAII.
As I said before ...Chris was not a very manly my opinion .......he had a lot of feminine energies .....and slightly hysterical .

That Gaurasundara .was quite upset at me that I dare to go visit Butler without his permission as he was the official leader of ISKCON Hawaii
he was a double agent ........on one side writhing (letters that I have read ) to Bhaktivedanta ..."That Siddha did not understand the philosophy
and was mixing the HARE KRISHNA stuff with the RAMA KRISHNA stuff and Shivananda stuff ........
but at the same times he was encouraging Siddha to do the PSYCHIC SLEEP in the Krishna temple of MAUI
and when it came time to cash in$$$ .............he split the money with Siddha and went to the BIG island to buy properties .....where he maintain is own hip very simple temple ( I was there many times in 1980 ies ) then he dissapear with his various concubines.(they where living in poor trailers..... Then I learned that one of them got legally adopted by a cigarett heiress in Hawaii DORIS DUKE...a TV movie was made about that swindle of CHANDI GAIL HEFFNER...that net her 65 million dollars .........(she convince DORIS DUKE ...that they where related in past lives )
Richard Chamberlain...... was rt of the cast ....might be online

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: November 26, 2012 09:36AM


I met Chandi a dozen times when she was one of the pennyless 2 concubines of Gaursundar on the BIG island
what Chandi as to do with Butler ...i do not know ....but she I know she was around when the selling of Hare Krishna proprety was going on.

Talk about brainwashing story .......Chandi went from being a new friend of Doris Duke .....and then made herself adopted legally by Mrs Duke as a dauther ......claiming a relationship going back in past lives with MRS Duke ...(and Doris Duke bought it )......and she walk away with with a cool 65 millions dollars at the death of DORIS DUKE millions more when Mrs Duke was alive ....Now that,s really good brainwashing .......Was she part of the PSYCHIC sleep circle .
There are many articles on line about Chandi ......some must mention the times of BUTLER ....i am just to busy for research.

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Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 26, 2012 09:39AM

Do you know what happened to Gaurasundar? Can anyone here get a hold of his pamphlet "The Ontological Primer"? So he left his wife for many women? Double agent with Butler? Anyone know Spielburg? LOL! Chris was effeminate?! This is hysterical in light of how many people he insulted as being "tillies" (Hawaiian slang for being a "girly man") You have to admit that some of the ISKCON thugs were scary.

Found the Back to Godhead issue about surrendering to ISKCON. Vintage photos to capture as well.

At the time no one really realized that he was always generating self-promotion from the start, even with this article. I'll bet he selected the photos as well.... Contrast his words with what we now know. I can't help think that the con man got conned and then learned from the bigger con....


Letters, Volume-01 Number-44, 1971 » « Krsna – The Supreme Personality of Godhead
I Offer My Respeciful Obeisances To His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
by Siddhara-svarupa Dasa

I offer my respectful obeisances to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, so dear to Krsna on this earth, having taken shelter at the Lord's lotus feet.

He is always engaged in worship of the Lord, he feels he is the lowest and most fallen of us all, he is not desirous of being worshiped. Therefore he is worshipable by me. He only accepts his position because his spiritual master has ordered him to do so. One should never take on disciples unless ordered to do so by the spiritual master. I have committed the greatest offense by taking disciples without the direct order of the bona fide spiritual master. Yet Prabhupada is so merciful that he has even forgiven me.

Disciples not abandoned-but saved. Placed securely at the feet of His Divine Grace and the disciplic succession.
Set our clocks to the eternal time scale, where example counts more than words; there a million disciples are but a drop in the ocean.

My message, spoken by my words and action, is specifically for those who (1) desire spiritual realization or (2) have achieved spiritual realization.

I've relinquished my position as spiritual master and offered myself, my disciples, and all our wealth at the feet of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Here is why:

In this age of confusion, souls seeking spiritual realization don't know which path really leads to God, and the spiritually advanced don't know how best to serve God. So everyone mentally speculates. The searchers for God go from one spiritual path to another, from one so-called spiritual master and theory to the next. The advanced soul spends his time speculating how he can help others.

Those who rely on mental speculation are bound to be misled and to mislead others because the mind is material; and that which is material is imperfect subject to making mistakes.

I've surrendered to Srila Prabhupada because he, being in the disciplic succession from Krsna Himself, is the way out of this maze of speculation. He is the bona fide representative of the Lord, and he is therefore infused with absolute knowledge and potency. He can easily take one to God; and for those who are beyond the illusion that happiness lies in the material world, he shows exactly what actions they should engage in. No longer are independent, mentally concocted attempts at "turning on others" necessary.

As the Kali age gets thicker and more confused, so will the phone book's yellow pages under Meditation Centers, Spiritual Master, etc. Up to this time, I've been a so-called spiritual master, thus adding to the confusion, making it harder for everyone to know which path is actually absolute.

Katha Upanisad: "In order to learn the transcendental science, one must approach the spiritual master in disciplic succession, fixed in the Absolute Truth."

To be a spiritual master, one must be in the line of disciplic succession to Krsna Himself and must be an acarya, a perfect example.

As an example to others, Lord Caitanya, who was God Himself, humbly submitted Himself at the feet of Isvara Puri, the contemporary spiritual master in disciplic succession. Yet I am such an arrogant fool that I, who am nothing more than a lowly maggot, believed that I did not need a spiritual master in disciplic succession.

The first time I received the association of Srila Prabhupada's devotees was at the very much celebrated Sunshine Music Festival held in Diamond Head crater, New Year's Day, 1969. I had flown over from our meditation center on Maui to help conduct the Festival's religious function and meditation classes.

Being inquisitive about them and their "Hare Krsna" chanting, I wandered over to their booth. The devotees were very kind to me. I sat and chanted with them for a while, and one of them showed me how to play the kartals (finger cymbals), although to this day I still haven't succeeded in learning to play them correctly. I also glanced through a Back to Godhead Magazine for the first time.

Thus the seed of the perfect tree was planted. But because I knew nothing of the sweet fruit of that tree of devotional service, I took no effort to water it nicely. Besides, I was too busy trying to turn people on to the Lord's clear light energy and His all-pervasive feature.

One should understand my position at that time. There was no desire for "spiritual realization.'' I had some realization of the impersonal feature of God, and because the bliss derived from this was so much greater than any bliss possible in material life, I was moved to turn others on to it. I had no idea of God in His original personal feature. Much of my time and energy was spent trying to find or learn the easiest and quickest means of spiritual realization of God. Having sensed the spiritual power of the Hare Krsna mantra, I became interested in using it as a tool for impersonal realization. So I incorporated the chanting into our Maui asrama program.

The invisible potency of the maha-mantra soon began to have visible effects. Beautiful forms of Krsna supplanted pictures of impersonalist gurus and mystics. Bhagavad-gita had been our main textbook for a long time, but we had been using an edition by an impersonalist who, like myself, used the maha-mantra to gain the experience of merging with God. Now we began to use Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is, which has a much more devotional attitude. Yoga exercises, breathing, and silent meditation occupied a less and less important part of our program.

The sweet nectar of devotional service I had begun to taste by the causeless mercy of His Divine Grace. Impersonalist experiences now seemed dry and void with as little significance as children's toys. Chanting the holy name for moksa ended. A bigger fool could not exist than I, for I had been thinking of using Krsna to gain moksa. Only a fool would exchange a diamond for a one-dollar bill.

Although I was beginning to relish the sweetness of the name, I had no appreciation for Srila Prabhupada. Out of his mercy he handed me the gem of love for God, and in return I gave him only trouble and more trouble. Yet he has forgiven me. He has no merchant in his heart.

Since I already held the post of spiritual master, I retained it, but now I was teaching primarily devotional service though obviously not pure devotional service. I had no thoughts at this time of surrendering to Srila Prabhupada. I was simply taking from his teaching what I wanted and applying it. The more I engaged in what Srila Prabhupada said to engage in, the more I realized, within, the absoluteness of his words. The stronger my internal relationship with Krsna became, to that same degree the Lord let me know of the absoluteness of His representative, Srila Prabhupada. The more I began to act on this realization, the larger our group got. Thus the public in Hawaii got the unfortunate impression that I was the spiritual master of the Hare Krsna movement. This disturbed many members of ISKCON because I wasn't really the bona fide representative of Krsna. Yet still they were tolerant towards me. Along with mercifully chastising me for my "independent nonsense," they helped the community to become Krsna conscious by supplying us with books, musical instruments, mantras, instruction, etc.

Approximately seven months before my surrender to Srila Prabhupada, it became clear to me that such surrendering would take place. These seven months were a time of realizing more deeply the necessity for such surrender.

The more I accepted Srila Prabhupada's words as absolute and the more I simply repeated his words without adding or subtracting anything to my preaching and the more I surrendered to him in my heart as my spiritual master, the more people joined our community. They were treating me as their spiritual master, yet in my heart I knew that Srila Prabhupada was really their spiritual master. Also at this time the Lord provided us with greater facilities to spread the holy names. Both disciples and facilities came in proportion to the degree of surrender to Srila Prabhupada. While accepting disciples, it was now with full knowledge that I would be placing them, along with myself, at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada. In that sacred knowledge lay my only strength.

Unfathomable is Krsna's mercy for He has sent Srila Prabhupada to distribute absolute knowledge to us. Unfathomable is Srila Prabhupada's mercy for he is freely distributing absolute knowledge of Krsna to everyone.

I just recently learned of an incident where Srila Prabhupada and a disciple at the Honolulu ISKCON temple were talking about "that boy Sai and his rascal sankirtana party." The disciple was quite perturbed, but Srila Prabhupada was not. He simply said, ''If they continue to read my books and chant, they will become purified." He fully knew the absolute potency of the knowledge he was passing on. Thus the more I read, the more deeply did I realize that Srila Prabhupada's words were actually the words of the Absolute, with the potency of the Absolute, and the more I realized this, the more I took the words and instructions as my life and soul. The more I took his words as my life and soul, the clearer it became to me that I had to follow exactly what he was saying. That which I heard him say most often was, "Surrender to the bona fide spiritual master and learn the science of God from him."

The highest pleasure is in pleasing the Lord so that is my desire. To please the Lord I must please the spiritual master; to please the spiritual master I must follow his instructions, knowing full well that they are the instructions of the Lord.

I felt perfectly secure from this point on because no more speculation was needed in order to know how to please God. I knew from that point on that Krsna would be pleased simply by my pleasing Srila Prabhupada.

Lord Caitanya's attitude left a deep impression on me. I desired to be in the position of which He spoke: ''I am the servant of the servant of the servant one hundred times the servant of Krsna." By my serving the servant of Krsna, the Lord would be pleased with me. The Lord chooses those devotees who feel too impure to be with Krsna, and He hugs them as they futilely struggle to run from His arms.

I knew that Srila Prabhupada would be pleased if I stopped my independent nonsense and entered into ISKCON temples and learned submissively the science of love of God from his disciples. And so the specific plan of action was begun.

Because my followers were sincere and serious in their endeavor to serve and love God, there was little trouble in the change. The only devotees who were confused were the few who had been trying to impress upon others that I was Krsna. They were suffering from the same disease that Srila Prabhupada desires to free the world from: "I am God-ism." No one left the movement, however, for out of Srila Prabhupada's mercy they had already tasted the sweet nectar of devotional service. This can be seen by the fact that they had given up the carnival-like material life. They weren't like the pseudo yogis who "meditate" a few minutes or hours a day and then go and engage in all sorts of nonsense.

We had our fill of encounters with such "yogis" and "swamis." In fact, recent encounters with a few Indian "swamis" on their way from India to the USA mainland (to get disciples) freed many devotees of their idealistic illusion about these cheaters in the garb of "Indian holy men" and simultaneously let me see that I was lending authority to these yogis' independent rascaldom by my not surrendering to the bona fide representative of Krsna.

I didn't inform most of my followers of my plan of action until only two days before I took it. I explained at length my desire to please my spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, and said that if they would like to follow my example they were encouraged to do so. The talk was long, serious and confidential. Many were sad; they didn't know if they would be able to treat me as their spiritual master, and I said, "In small ways you won't be able to treat me as your spiritual master, but in the most important sense you can. You can please me by doing what I want you to, and I want you to learn the science of devotional service from Srila Prabhupada. So there's no problem, no conflict."

A deep feeling of relief filled the air, a feeling that was free from any doubts of the correctness of my action. Safe in the hands of Srila Prabhupada, at the feet of the disciplic succession, a feeling of soul security prevailed. And added to this was the excitement at gaining so many new Godbrothers and sisters. As one devotee joked, "Our community has not dissolved, it has expanded. We now have temples and Godbrothers all over the world!" Spontaneous chanting and dancing began, and no one wanted to stop. Shouts of, "All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Gauranga! Hari Bol!" burst forth, opening a whole new chapter in our lives. All sectarian feelings had disappeared. Surely the Lord was very pleased!

After prasadam and more chanting, the boys who wanted to follow my example began cutting their hair. To us the hair cutting meant surrender to Srila Prabhupada and the disciplic succession. For the next two days, organizing for the exodus to the different ISKCON temples took place. All our wealth was distributed to different temples, and our vehicles, property, etc., were handed over to Srila Prabhupada's bona fide representative in Hawaii, Gaursundar dasa Adhikari.

Nothing is or ever was mine. So I could not have given up anything at all. Materialists understand not the laws of the spiritual world; to move forward, one must move backwards. With each backstep, a step forward is gained. As water seeks always the lowest point, so should the devotee of the Lord. To move forward, then, is to surrender to the bona fide spiritual master. To be attached to serving and pleasing such a spiritual master is to be attached eternally to Krsna's feet. There, securely stationed at the lowest point, in bliss, he is never attracted by the mundane "glory" or "pleasure" offered by the material circus world.

I am certainly unworthy of giving anyone any advice, yet I would like to, at least, pass on to my innumerable brothers and sisters the wish of my most humble spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada. His wish is that you take to the chanting of Hare Krsna, regardless of your particular situation in life. You are all much more qualified than I to bathe in the nectarean ocean of Lord Caitanya's mercy; therefore you should not hesitate to chant, read Srila Prabhupada's books, and visit or join any ISKCON Temple at any time.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: November 26, 2012 09:40AM

We know more about what happen then ...a little more everyday

But can someone describe what is happening now ........

what about this germophobia ?

Is it truth that Butler as a circle of people that talk to him wearing masks

and others cannot talk to him ..if they have no masks ??

How does he lives now in is Ivory towers ?

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 26, 2012 09:54AM

We know more about what happen then ...a little more everyday

But can someone describe what is happening now ........

what about this germophobia ?

Is it truth that Butler as a circle of people that talk to him wearing masks

and others cannot talk to him ..if they have no masks ??

How does he lives now in is Ivory towers ?

A lot is coming out more rapidly because of the internet. Because his cult has become more secretive, it will take time. Look how many years it has taken for exers to come out! 30, 40 years! He is more guarded than ever, but people are starting to leak information out of his group. Truth does not just go away. There is a crack in the will not hold.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: November 26, 2012 10:19AM

.......Thanks Vera .....great find ........ I loves this part.....ITS WEIRD .... "The only devotees who were confused were the few who had been trying to impress upon others that I was Krsna." (did he not make it clear to his followers before that faithfull day that he was NOT GOD ? )
What a little LSD and a bit of psychic sleep can accomplish .....hey ?

Those where the deep brainwash ones .......TUSTA KRISHNA maybee

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