Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 25, 2012 02:27AM

In light of the history of this forum, I found the following article a good reminder....


How trolls operate on Facebook and internet forums.
These tactics have been repeatedly used in many activist groups. The tactics highlighted below are a common blue print, that government agents also use in all campaigns that they have been assigned to, usually because whatever the campaigns objectives are, they may in some way be damaging to the establishment.
Psy-ops = Psychological operations: the label is self explanatory.This is the technique they employ to “head game” their victim, and also confuse other genuine group members. Listed below are various techniques that we here at CPUK have both been victim to and observed on here on Facebook.

1. Character Assassination
They identify who is potentially the biggest threat, they then set about getting that person removed from the group, they have various means of doing this, and most entail discrediting that person in one way or another. Whispering is their most common method, ie, private messaging other members of the group, and telling lies about their victim. They then pick off the members of the group one at a time, until the only players left in the game are the other government "shills".
When they have pinpointed who they deem to be the biggest threat to their agenda, they set about the most despicable character assassination. If you comment on forums, they will twist things you say, they will at all times be working towards having other group members think they are good and moral, and you are bad and immoral. They will take totally innocuous things which you have said, and try and twist them so as you appear hypocritical, a liar, insensitive… goes on and on!

They will stoop as low as they see fit. Then they will proceed to post their findings all over Facebook.

2. Whispering
The whispering can be telling other group members that their chosen victim has been either ridiculing them, or doing/saying something that could be damaging to the campaign. To ensure that the person they are messaging does not go straight to you and report the correspondence, they may suggest that you are a dangerous or very vindictive person, and that they are afraid of you.

Having personally been the victim of whispering campaigns, we can tell you from first hand experience, that it is very difficult to defend yourself from the unknown, people just distance themselves from you, leaving you in the dark often with no clue as to why.

3. Dummy Friend
One of their number will befriend you, confide their secrets, and embark on a bonding process, this is one of their most deadly weapons, it is designed so that you will then confide things to them, and they can then form a “psychological profile chart” on you, they then use this against you, as they will know your weak spots. Your new “Dummy Friend”, will try at all costs to establish a bond with you and gain your trust. They will gently try and influence your opinions, often telling you lies, and trying to distance you from other genuine campaigners.
Your new Dummy Friend will invent dramas, claiming someone has been very nasty to them, the someone could be a genuine campaigner, or one of the psych-ops team. The invented drama will be reported in such a way as to warrant a reaction of some sort from you, this could result in them dragging you into a public slagging match, or you contacting the “nasty person” with accusations. Either way, you come out of it looking bad, while dummy friend smells of roses.

Dummy friend may pretend to have an illness or disability of some sort to make you feel protective of them. Dummy friend can be very clever, and will play you like a fiddle! Dummy friend will present you with "evidence" about other genuine campaigners, which will suggest that they are in fact an infiltrator, and cannot be trusted. When you have been presented with this fabricated evidence, if you react in any way, and make any kind of comment about the person, that comment will then be passed onto them. Be aware, Dummy Friend will at all times be passing all your messages onto the other members of the psy-ops team.

It will also be Dummy Friends job to plant the seeds of paranoia, always passing on tittle-tattle about this one or the other one gossiping about you. When you eventually cop on that dummy friend has betrayed you, this is when dummy friend becomes their most lethal, they know they have been exposed and they will then publicly use all the information they have on you in public forums, at this stage they can say what they want as they know you don’t trust them any more, so they don’t need to worry about protecting that bond.

Dummy friend at this stage attempt to protect their identity amongst the rest of the group, will make out you are paranoid, crazy, a nut job if you try and reveal to the rest of the group what they have been up to. Dummy friend is by far the most lethal member of the psy-ops team.

4.Rows rows rows!
They also instigate rows within the group, two agents will be in charge of the two warring factions, innocent members of the group take sides, and get drawn into their manufactured saga.

They will publicly attack the people and groups they see as their biggest threat. They will malign and discredit them in the most despicable manner. They just love fighting, and at all times will be planting seeds all over the place to start rows. The most effective way to damage a campaign is to have continuous in-fighting. Dummy friend will play a big part in this, because if they have said something slanderous about you somewhere, and you did not see it, dummy friend will see it and pass it onto you. Even when you know their tactics, and you know that they are just trying to drag you into a public slagging match, it is very difficult not to react, and to just let the posse slander you on forums/groups/pages etc. In the manufacturing of these rows, they will either just straight out lie about you, or take things you have said, and report them totally out of context.
Psy-ops agents are Masters at manipulation, coming off as truthful, knowledgeable, and witty. Many of these tactics leave people feeling confused about what to believe, the whole while having fallen into their traps of paranoia, discontent, and criticism.

The whole thing ends in chaos “divide and conquer” the oldest trick in the book!

The constant rows often mean that genuine campaigners leave, either after being attacked, or because the constant fighting is wearing them out. Then the whole campaign either falls apart, or their order becomes the order of the group. If they are in control of the group, they will steer the group in a direction which will hinder not enhance the overall campaign.

5. Time wasting
The psy–ops team will at all times be devising ways to waste your time. Time wasted is time not spent on the campaign. An example of this would be to publicly accuse you of some kind of wrong doing, it is human nature that when wrongly accused you will want to clear your name. Clearing your name may entail trawling through emails and messages from two years ago to back up your innocence in the slanderous claims.
Another method they use is to get “dummy friend” to send you links which they say is evidence of wrong doing of another team member, trawling through these links will take up an inordinate amount of your time and energy.

Dummy Friend is the most dangerous member of the psy-ops team, and will at all times be working behind your back to destroy you. Dummy friend will also send you links to obscure forums all over the net, where the other psy-ops team will be ridiculing and slandering you, remember, this is a full time paid job for these people, so don’t be surprised at the vast amount of time they use setting these stings up.

6. Multi-characters
One of the psy-ops team, may in fact be 4 members of the group, they will often have numerous identities, and often even start rows with themselves to try and drag other group members into taking sides and getting involved in the manufactured drama. Divide and conquer.

7. Victimisation
While you are their victim, and they are at all times working towards discrediting you and victimising you, they will make attempts to make others think it is in fact the other way round. There are many ways they can do this.

When it then becomes very obvious what they are up to, and you block them, they will spend the next two or more days going to other forums all over the place to discredit you further for blocking them, they will accuse you of being a liar, a hypocrite etc etc. All the time making out that they have been a victim to you! Should you attempt to defend your actions on these forums, you will then be pounced on by the other psy-ops team, and a full scale slagging match ensues. I now ignore all such attempts to embroil me in their dramas.
8. Exposure:This is their greatest fear, and when exposed they will join forces and attack like the nest of vipers that they are, when there has been full exposure, it means that they have to create new identities and go through the entire process again of gaining trust and influence in the group, they have done this in the past, but they prefer to avoid this, and retain the positions they already hold. They will go to great lengths to have people think that they are the victims, and the person doing the exposing is in fact the infiltrator.

They will point out the great amount of time that they have devoted to the cause, which is often more than the genuine campaigners, as they are full time employees so to speak, and getting paid for all they do! On the face of it they may appear to have been great supporters, but when you scratch the surface just a little and examine what they have been doing in the shadows, and not the light, a very different picture emerges of their actual contribution.

Make no mistake, these people are often masters at what they do, they have been trained in mind manipulation, and know every trick in the book, as to how to influence group actions and behaviour.

It is their ultimate goal to close down the entire group, genuine supporters when faced with this level of Machiavellian tactics give up and leave the campaign. Others continue to support, but from the side lines, and do not get involved in the group activities, and I really don’t blame them!

9. Fear Mongers
These are people who will see a story online, take it and twist it to high levels, just to spread disinfo and discredit what is really going on. Most groups have a ton of these people in their group. Once one gets in they add as many of their fear monger friends as possible. If you point out that a "fear monger" is spreading disinfo to a person and that person still keeps that person as a friend, or doesn't even bother checking it out, or will read that information and not even check into it, then...... A fear monger usually will take a disinfo story and post it to many groups, when confronted about it, they attack. Be careful of these people, they are dangerous, for whatever reason, they either get their kicks from doing this, or they are doing it for a reason. "Fear Mongers" usually attach themselves to religious, conspiracy or weather groups online. There is a reason they do this, to them, they can reach the masses that way.

This has been written, firstly: to outline our own position at not defending ourselves from troll attacks because interactions with them are futile, and only serve to damage and distract from the issue with in-fighting; secondly, to let other supporters be aware of the tactics they use, awareness will save you a great deal of time and annoyance.
If you see arguments that appear to be among supporters, stay well clear, do not join in, and do not be swayed by the lies they tell, question their motives in trying so hard to discredit honourable people and/or create hysteria, distrust, fighting, and an unhealthy environment which is something not wanted in any group! IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, REPORT IT TO AN ADMINSTRATOR.

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Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 25, 2012 04:58AM

Vera City
As per request I am posting the forbidden book SAI SPEAKS.


I don’t know how much longer these scans will be accessible at the current location online. All you have to do is to right click on image and select “save image as” and put in a folder on your computer or paste into a WORD document. I did not include all of the photos as they have already been posted.

Sorry, page 18 (color) is out of sequence.

There is so much that has not changed in the cult! Right now I don't have the time to comment on all the obvious hypocrisies.
Others will have to pull it out and comment.

A few things glared out at me:
1) admitted drug past (page 4-5)
2) mentions friend from Laguna Beach (possible reference to drug dealer who travels to India - Hawaii - Laguna Beach...great route for hashish which was popular.)
3) the list of talents he values for his recruitment into his Krishna Yoga Community (including WEALTH for Krishna..erm... Mr. Young) (page 44)
Note similarity between KYC and "Yoga Lifestyle"!?
4) his quoting of Tukaram which seems to justify his independent status from mainstream Hinduism or anything he damn well pleases for that matter... (need some research here dabcult. Are you familiar with this follower of Chaitanya?)
5) Psychic Sleep meditations (pages 12 -15)
6)reference to starting a Krishna School (pg 46)
7) Typical cult disdain for family (page 9)
8) baloney humility "I'm not a bonafide teacher...I'm not a very "heavy" or great yogi" but...(on pg 55) the book claims, "Sai, KRISHNA'S pure devotee..." So pure devotee claim pre-dates entrance into ISKCON.
Quite a history of mastering the art of self-promotion!
Remember the photo in the Haribol Special where he had placed himself in the disciplic line (the larger photo)!
9) Butler's hilarious penchant for self promotion also expresses itself on the cover of Sai Speaks which shows a golden yellow young Butler like the incarnated god Chaitanya! Not so subtle clue to his "divinity" for those who are awake.
10) Statements meant to relinquish critical thinking skills (no time to pick out quotes).
11) Kundalini burning myth also started back in his Sai days (referenced in book).

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: alapuhsihs ()
Date: November 25, 2012 06:32AM

Timothy Leary and Sai Young together at the Hut

First I want to say something about hinduism in America because it is important to know how it fits into the scheme of things and how the image of the hare krishnas has changed as time goes by.

Back in the late 60s and up to the middle 70s the hindu religion was not popular in the west. Back then there were NO hindu temples anywhere in America. The only temples that resembled hinduism were the hare krishna temples.


The hare krishnas denied in the past that they are hindus for obvious reasons. There are countless quotes by hare krishna leaders denouncing hinduism. But now it is politically incorrect to criticize hinduism as a religion and politically correct to call it a bonafide religion so it is a plus to call themselves hindus. Smart politics.

Since 1965 hindu immigrants have flooded this country and have become very wealthy. Although a small minority their numbers are growing. And although a small minority most are well to do.The hare krishnas can tap into all that wealth now by admitting they are hindus and the hindus welcome them in as bona-fide hindus. Isn’t that correct? Hindu immigrants and second generation hindus have become the main source of income for many hare krishna temples in America today. And now they hold festivals not just for the blue god but for other gods like Siva the hindu festival of Diwali and many others. Without the hindu population the hare krishna movement would be dead in America. At least that the word in my state of.... All the krishna temples are listed as hindu all over the internet and no one is denying it anymore or distancing themselves from hinduism.


The cult of Sai followed many hindu teachings like reincarnation, a man could become a god and make his own universe, the fallacy of karma and so many other things. Idol worship and chanting mantras at the top of their practices.

But like the main hare krishna cult Sai said we were not hindus. One thing he raved about was the fact that in almost every hindu sect in India non-Indians cannot become priests. He also denounced the caste system. By the caste system he could not be a guru. But he said at once the caste system did work but became degraded. So he did not totally disagree with the degraded inhuman practice of the caste system.

dabcult lets not argue over meat-eating. I eat cows, I don’t worship them. I sell meat for a living and love Cowboying. Nuff said.. I admire your exposing the different cults. The one on the different avatars in hinduism and the one who claims to be a god called Kalki was very educational. . If he is a god kalki his wife must be the horse he rides. You are giving me a good education. I was in the cult of Sai for a relatively short time and never joined the main hare krishna cult. When Sai went to the main cult I jumped ship. When he came out of the main cult I came back around but things were not the same anymore and
I had been hanging out with some Christian folks who helped me see things a bit more cleary. I left Hawaii before 1980 and never looked back or missed anything about my time there. Much of it is just a haze now. Something until now I had wanted to forget. So what you are doing is very important. The connection between Sai and the hare krishna cult is important so exposing everything you know is good. Dedicating you life to exposing dangerous cults is commendable.

I was at the hut when Timothy Leary came. Sai did not like him very much. Sai never liked any competition and at that time Timothy Leary was another big guru. Sai was coming up in the guru world. He was ‘the cool’ hare krishna guru. The young master. Everyone was so high on drugs and so gullible that anyone with a little charisma or double talk could get a cult going.
People thought we were having drug orgies and multiple sex partners but nothing could be further from the truth. Leary was expecting some big ho down wing ding in paradise. But all he found was a bunch of undernourished long haired hare krishna like hippies and sickly surfers. We were strickly following hare krsna ways except we rejected the look and dress. Nobody was getting us in pink robes or a shaved head. We were not going to hassle people at the airport. Thats the real honest truth just look at the Sai Speaks pictures, they tell it all. I think Leary was disappointed, he was expecting to whoop it up in Hawaii with Sai.

Corboy you may be right now that I think of it. Vera if they were eating at Mcdonalds and drinking egg drinks it only stands to reason they may have not completely given up drugs. We were told to give up our hippie ways. Yes I was a hippie, not proud of that part of my life but I was. Should have been protecting this great country but I fell into the wrong crowd. . From there I was led into the cult of Sai. Stumbled in, in a drug daze you might say. Anyways it may have been Sai was still taking LSD while telling his slaves to give it up. They were all saying his energy was coming from the blue god but probably it was coming from LSD. As I recall that LSD gave you all kinds of seemingly supernatural energy. Maybe thats how he did the fast. Cannot imagine any normal person living 60 days on just coconut water. He must have been cheating.
Him and Leary did talk privately, who knows maybe they took some LSD. Leary called LSD a sacrament and a Holy Communion. He was expecting to turn us on but everyone was turned on by Sai and depravation of the body instead so we rejected his sacrament.
Leary was chain smoking cigarettes and Sai hated fags. I’m talking about cigs here not those homosexual people. His dislike for them must have come later. I think there was one or two of them in the crowd but they were in the closet and not practicing so they were welcome. Anyone was welcome who was willing to completely submit to Sai and follow the rigid rules. I guess I was in the closet too for being a meat eater at heart.

Sai was a liberal about everything but the important things like what to eat, sex and other normal enjoyments of life. The things God gave us to be happy. Like all the liberals he was against the war in Vietnam, the draft, income tax. He was against the establishment as it was called then. I am seeing now he is trying to make us believe he is more like a Republican when it comes to defending this country. He was a war protestor and hated people defending this county against those communists in Asia. He wants us to believe thru Tulsi that he has become an all out America lover? He hated this great country and how it came to be and the freedom it stands for. Always talking about how America was stolen from some one else and would be taken away in the future. The enemies of America would eventually win according to Sai. How the meat eaters were demons and spoiling everything. He had just given up meat himself!! So it was a little hard to swallow. How killing the cow was the cause of all the wars America gets into. Such bogus nonesense!! He said all wars all over the world were because of cow killing!! Just crazy talk!! Sai hated the ‘Gunsmoke’, ‘Raw Hide’ image of the beginning of this great nation. When Leary left Sai was bad-mouthing him saying he did not have any real enlightenment. He said he was worst than the boogi yogi. At least the boogi yogi practices yoga he said. Boogi yogis are what we called other yoga cults that were not the hare krishnas. A few were starry eyed over Leary and I think Sai may have been a little jealous. Remember many of us had just left that drug hippie movement and Leary was like a god to the hippies. And Leary was not very impressed with Sai either. Leary hated Jesus Christ and had been quoted as calling the Lord Jesus Christ a loser who only losers follow, and Sai was kind of acting like he was another Christ or even the original.
So Leary must have thought we were all losers. Sai couldn’t convince Leary his way and Leary could not convince Sai his way so the meeting was short lived and no real friendship was made between the two. Now looking back those two just look like two different sides of the same Godless coin.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: November 25, 2012 08:14AM

Bravo, Vera for posting the nearly complete “banned book”, Sai Speaks! There are some pages that you duplicated and perhaps a few are missing. But, I have saved copies of everything you just posted and will preserve it for future researchers. Chris Butler admits to using LSD and thereby discovering God. Mike and Carol Gabbard then devoted their lives to this false Guru and their poor daughter, Tulsi Gabbard, became Chris Butler’s puppet and won a seat in Congress. I agree with Dabcult and others here that this would make a great Movie someday. The best thing about Vera uploading Sai Speaks (besides the bravery), is that Chris Butler has wanted it hidden for 40 years. Well Chris, how do you like this dose of reality?

This is what Zelig had to say about “Sai Speaks” back in 2006:

… What follows is taken from a book that was supposed to be banned and burned in the 1970’s by Siddha followers. I had sent a copy to my mother years ago and when she passed away recently, I found it in her library. The book was called, “Sai Speaks: Pleasure is the Goal” The first chapter is called, “Who Is Sai?” …One day I will scan and post the whole thing on the internet. (he never got that chance)
"Sai (Phony name he took on after an acid trip - Sai claimed that Krishna himself appeared to him and gave him this name) was born on June 14, 1948. He spent the first twelve years of his life living on the simple secluded island of Molokai in the Hawaiian chain. As a student both in high school and college, Sai was deeply involved in humanitarian, karma yogi activities [yeah, like what?! Anyone ever check his academic record?]. He was also very familiar with mind expanding chemicals. [True. The beginning of delusional, misanthropic thinking.]
Zelig was later himself banned from this forum for violating the rule about never posting under a second user name. Maybe Zelig was set up by CB followers.

From 1971 - Gerald (Mike) Gabbard and his wife, Carol, were obviously already Hare Krishna’s in 1971 because they named their newborn son, Bhakti, a Krishna name. Their other four children were also given Krishna names. Mike Gabbard’s claim of being a practicing Catholic is not plausible given Carol’s position at the Science of Identity Foundation plus the anti-Christian dogma of Butler and all his followers. Personally, I could care less what religion the Gabbards practice. However, deceiving the voters of Hawaii is an outrage. I hope to post more information connecting the dots and linking all the Gabbards to megalomaniac, Chris Butler.
Gerald Michael Gabbard AKA Gerald Gabbard AKA Mike Gerald Gabbard AKA Michael Gabbard AKA Mike Gabbard AKA Krishna Katha Dasa AKA Krishna Katha das AKA Krishna Katha Prabhu

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 25, 2012 08:43AM

alaphusihs, Were you at the RAINBOW BRIDGE concert on Maui in 1970?

The Krishna Yoga Community was there. Hendrix also came to visit SAI and the young Butler did not like him either. The story goes that he said, "Hendrix is only into Hendrix." Funny coming from a man who was only into himself. I guess narcissists recognize and hate each other.

Hippies came to the love feasts for the free food, but few stayed due to the strict rules, especially against sex in the cult.

Hendrix at Rainbow Bridge

A bit of cultural history of Surfing, LSD, and Spirituality in Hawaii 1970's

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 25, 2012 08:58AM

None of the contents of the book Sai Speaks has been left out. I left out a couple of pictures of Krishna and the book itself had a numbering error on the pages, so you have the whole text.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 25, 2012 09:28AM

Also, another note. The back cover of SAI SPEAKS has OM and the Hare Krishna mantra on it. Both were very popular in the 1970's. The musical HAIR, as well as a George Harrison (from the Beatles) album had chanting on it. When this became unpopular, Butler changed the mantras of choice to new sway and deceive the public...and morph with the times. The pattern remains the same.

alapuhsihs - You bring up good points about Hinduism. The Hindu community also helped to get Tulsi Gabbard elected. There has been a shift in the Butler cult towards communing with the now Hinduized Hare Krishna movement through the World Vaishnava group. Ever the opportunist, Butler always had one foot in a boat to give him legitimacy and to promote his own ends. The pattern remains the same.
But why do you think the cult has become more secretive and isolated over time? Were you aware of drug dealers supporting the KYC? If you left in 1980, you must have been around for the political campaigns. Were you involved in door to door activities? Were you a witness to Butler micro-managing every move made by his candidates? And how did you leave the cult?

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: alapuhsihs ()
Date: November 25, 2012 10:59AM

You know its been a real long time and the memory is not what it used to be. Its difficult to remember dates too but I remember the Rainbow Bridge gathering was taking place but was on another Island. I vaguely remember Sai talking about
Jimi Hendrix and that he was going to hell for putting his face over the vishnu god.


Most of my association was at the hut, with a little time on Kauai and Maui. I never saw any drug sales and never heard they were going on but then I didn’t know about the orange julius or McDonalds runs either.
After Sai went into the mother cult of Iscon I was not much involved in his activities anymore. I was not one of the sheep following him in. I laid low for a couple of years. I was beginning to focus on other interests. I became involved in a fellowship with some Christians. That was the best path change of my life. I visited a few times after that but did not get involved and by then there were many new faces. And a lot of old faces were gone.
I knew about the political run of Nishiki. But by the mid 70s I was a fading face and no longer part of his fold. Around 79 I left Hawaii to visit my family on the mainland. Hooked up with my high school girlfriend and well that was it. We married a couple of years later. Been in my home town ever since. Became part of a real community with a loving family. Reading the posts here paints a picture of a different person than the one I knew. He was not much back then. Secrecy means you have something to hide. So he must have a lot to hide and thats why he is secretive. Thats my guess.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: November 25, 2012 12:18PM

Just so nice to have your intelligent energy on this forum

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 25, 2012 12:23PM

Thanks everyone. Use the info wisely.

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