Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: May 17, 2007 12:25AM
Quote
cultreporterQuote
A congressional report has revealed that a significant and increasing number of people are having recurrent sexual relationship with animals - particularly dogs and pigs. There is even a specialised, exclusive company in Los Angeles that breeds dogs for the sale to women as sexual partners. The report also features photos of such beastiality, including a woman licking the sex organ of a male pig.
Re-incarnation Explained Page 50 published 1984
Maybe that could explain the hair on my chest and back!!!
Maybe my biological father was a dog!!!
Sid also said that there was a restaurant in New York
that was serving aborted fetus babies
as a specialty dish...
(Thus fulfilling the prophecy that people
would eat their own babies in the Kali Yuga!)
I do not know if these things are true
but it goes to show how Sid
would focus on the negative things in life...
[b:77926e1e3b]To a great degree.[/b:77926e1e3b]
Instead of focusing on the positive
and accentuating the positive
like "going back to Godhead"
chanting, deity worship, etc...
and the "chant and be happy" philosophy,
the group has put the chanting in a distant fourth place
behind politics, making money, and serving himself...
to the point that here is a fanatical group of people
who will threaten to shoot anyone who
says anything against them...
just like a group of gangsters...
At least ACB's group,
when dealing with firearms, drug dealing, and child molestation
would look ridiculous when they looked in the mirror,
i.e. wearing religious robes...
Sid's group can easily blend in with a group of gangsters
dressed in blue jeans...
I believe that this focusing on the negative
has led a lot of people to leave the group
and seek spiritual indoctrination elsewhere...
:?:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 17, 2007 03:43AM
The issue now that we are having is that towards the start of this thread two members say that the school that Mike ran was in Samoa - including one who person who claims to have attended this school which was later moved to the Philippines. On Mike's professional history he claims the school was in Wahaiwa HI.
Was this School in Hawaii or Samoa or did he have a school in both locations?
[www.capitol.hawaii.gov]
He claims to have been in samoa up until 83 and it seems unusual that the cult would allow two new members to teach their children.
The claims that he was a professional tennis player previously never turned up anything and after it was mentioned on this forum we checked into it and the only mention on the internet are those that Gabbard himself seems to make which is that he was a tennis coach. This was in '77 in Hawaii at an Oahu resort and previously in Samoa.
In speculation he may have become aquainted with Siddha during this year having worked on his guru's home island and then started the school in Samoa. Although we haven't even received an approximate year he became a member of SoI.
Much of Gabbard's history is at present unverifiable and his opponent Ed Case had difficulty in asking Gabbard to provide dates and places. He claims that the degree he received in Oregon was for a course not offered at that university.
There is no evidence that the Seminary he attended in Michigan exists or if it closed down but it does seem to have existed the years he attended in the early 60s.
During the early six years of ISKCON's beginings Gabbard's history is still blank.
We still don't know of any disciples that didn't follow the first letter system of initiation outside of those letters which are not vaisnava names.
With Wai Lana, Bhaktivedanta also had no 'W' disciples or 'X' so the previous letter is 'V' for Vaisnava dasi.
Gayatri dasi on the Gold Coast is named Fiona but since there are no F names on ACBs database the next letter is G on Chris's system.
Mike or Gerald Gabbard and Carol both have names (G or M, C) that have vaisnava names that suit the letter of their legal name.
So as far we do not have an example of a disciple of Butler that doesn't follow this system outside of those who were initiated by ACB.
[www.prabhupada.com]
------------------------------
Here is another quote from Who Are You? 1983 page 235-236
All of this theorising is designed to instill fear of even a slight deviation from Chris Butler declares to be the right way to live. The followers live in selective association and isolation and are repeatedly told to avoid the media or discussing current affairs while according to Chris the outside world becomes increasingly perverted and repellant. How could one even consider leaving the cult to join a world full of people interested in child molesting, eating fetuses and stool and having sex with animals who are interested in snuff movies and cannibalism as described in his books?
Was this School in Hawaii or Samoa or did he have a school in both locations?
[www.capitol.hawaii.gov]
He claims to have been in samoa up until 83 and it seems unusual that the cult would allow two new members to teach their children.
The claims that he was a professional tennis player previously never turned up anything and after it was mentioned on this forum we checked into it and the only mention on the internet are those that Gabbard himself seems to make which is that he was a tennis coach. This was in '77 in Hawaii at an Oahu resort and previously in Samoa.
In speculation he may have become aquainted with Siddha during this year having worked on his guru's home island and then started the school in Samoa. Although we haven't even received an approximate year he became a member of SoI.
Much of Gabbard's history is at present unverifiable and his opponent Ed Case had difficulty in asking Gabbard to provide dates and places. He claims that the degree he received in Oregon was for a course not offered at that university.
There is no evidence that the Seminary he attended in Michigan exists or if it closed down but it does seem to have existed the years he attended in the early 60s.
During the early six years of ISKCON's beginings Gabbard's history is still blank.
We still don't know of any disciples that didn't follow the first letter system of initiation outside of those letters which are not vaisnava names.
With Wai Lana, Bhaktivedanta also had no 'W' disciples or 'X' so the previous letter is 'V' for Vaisnava dasi.
Gayatri dasi on the Gold Coast is named Fiona but since there are no F names on ACBs database the next letter is G on Chris's system.
Mike or Gerald Gabbard and Carol both have names (G or M, C) that have vaisnava names that suit the letter of their legal name.
So as far we do not have an example of a disciple of Butler that doesn't follow this system outside of those who were initiated by ACB.
[www.prabhupada.com]
------------------------------
Here is another quote from Who Are You? 1983 page 235-236
Quote
Questioner #2: So bisexuals are saying that if I overcome my hangup against having sex with those of my own gender, that I'll have achieved perfection?
Chris Butler: Yes, but then there are other hedonists who are even more "advanced" who will challenge them. Even if you are bisexual, you may still have other hangups that you haven't overcome yet. For example, you may still have a hangup about having sex with children - or with older folks, such as your parents or grandparents. In other words, you may have overcome your "gender hangups" but you still have and "age hangup." Even if you're bisexual, you may still be limited in your choice of partners because you keep considering people's age. When you walk down the street, many of the males and females are off-limits to you because they are either too young or too old. But if you transcend the "age hangup," you won't have that problem anymore. You'll see everyone, from the youngest to the oldest, from the newborn baby to the gray-haired grandmother, as potential objects of sexual exploitation.
Of Course, even if you've overcome the "gender hangups," you still aren't completely free yet. You may still have a "specific hangup." An increasing number of women in the United States keep dogs for sexual reasons. There are eve kennels that specialize in the breeding of such dogs - big ones like German Shepherds are evidenty the most popular. If you say, "I just couldn't get into that animal stuff," it means you've got a "species hangup." I mean, why should only humans be considered fit recipients of your sexual favors? Why not expand your sexual license to all species of life?
The fact is, there is no final "hangup" to overcome. In competition between hedonists, there's always someone who's a little less hung up than the rest of us. He then teases, challenges, and dares us to become as "liberated" as he is. It's a never-ending search.
All of this theorising is designed to instill fear of even a slight deviation from Chris Butler declares to be the right way to live. The followers live in selective association and isolation and are repeatedly told to avoid the media or discussing current affairs while according to Chris the outside world becomes increasingly perverted and repellant. How could one even consider leaving the cult to join a world full of people interested in child molesting, eating fetuses and stool and having sex with animals who are interested in snuff movies and cannibalism as described in his books?
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
MeanReds
()
Date: May 17, 2007 10:45PM
Zelig was a member on this thread previously with the handle "Initiate" under which he argued with RR that members of cults are to be held responsible despite mind control and he recalls that brainwashing doesn't occur in Science of Identity.
Initiate was a member during the times Zelig was in the 70s and 80s, they both had jewish fathers and brothers who ridiculed them for being a member, they tell the same story of calling Chris's father for a script and the reaction to that conversation was the same. Zelig and Initiate both have the same viewpoints and grammar and they both lived on the same residence as Siddha. Other stories and attitudes match competely.
Shortly after the debate RR stated that members had been removed for questionable motives. Zelig then arrived stating he was glad to have found this thread and laid low.
He has been dulling down the behavior of this cult for a while now. Zelig (and others 'authorised' by Zelig) describe "The Warehouse" where people lived in the attic and hollowed out floors on boxes, which is also the location where they worked and armed gaurds used metal detectors to scan anybody entering or leaving. This clearly describes somewhat of a compound which was under a facade of a legitimate business. Fire laws were not followed, illegal construction occured and people hid there as illegal immigrants and were extremely poor as they were engaged in free labor for Siddha. People went through false marriages to engage in politics and Siddha lived in luxurious homes (yes plural!!) in Hawaii, Arizona and Malibu, California while his chef labored out of a cheap motel running herself into the ground.
But of course there was no brainwashing. According to zelig this was all completely legitimate and everyone "decided" to search through the garbage for food and worked under armed surveilance for Siddha. There was no attempt to keep followers from leaving.
His assessment of this cult being dangerous at around 2 out of 10 and at times on this thread he feels that Science of Identity is a dangerous cult under an arrogant leader although his position here seems only to be to deny that anything which might result in litigation against Sceince of Identity ever occured.
If Zelig leaves this thread there will be another coming to state they have all the "information" (if you just ask!) when infact they deny much of the danger that this cult puts people in and the lives that they ruin.
Zelig has less than honorable motives.
Initiate was a member during the times Zelig was in the 70s and 80s, they both had jewish fathers and brothers who ridiculed them for being a member, they tell the same story of calling Chris's father for a script and the reaction to that conversation was the same. Zelig and Initiate both have the same viewpoints and grammar and they both lived on the same residence as Siddha. Other stories and attitudes match competely.
Shortly after the debate RR stated that members had been removed for questionable motives. Zelig then arrived stating he was glad to have found this thread and laid low.
He has been dulling down the behavior of this cult for a while now. Zelig (and others 'authorised' by Zelig) describe "The Warehouse" where people lived in the attic and hollowed out floors on boxes, which is also the location where they worked and armed gaurds used metal detectors to scan anybody entering or leaving. This clearly describes somewhat of a compound which was under a facade of a legitimate business. Fire laws were not followed, illegal construction occured and people hid there as illegal immigrants and were extremely poor as they were engaged in free labor for Siddha. People went through false marriages to engage in politics and Siddha lived in luxurious homes (yes plural!!) in Hawaii, Arizona and Malibu, California while his chef labored out of a cheap motel running herself into the ground.
But of course there was no brainwashing. According to zelig this was all completely legitimate and everyone "decided" to search through the garbage for food and worked under armed surveilance for Siddha. There was no attempt to keep followers from leaving.
His assessment of this cult being dangerous at around 2 out of 10 and at times on this thread he feels that Science of Identity is a dangerous cult under an arrogant leader although his position here seems only to be to deny that anything which might result in litigation against Sceince of Identity ever occured.
If Zelig leaves this thread there will be another coming to state they have all the "information" (if you just ask!) when infact they deny much of the danger that this cult puts people in and the lives that they ruin.
Zelig has less than honorable motives.
Quote
Zelig wrote:
Like bars of iron we desire to be magnetized by our spiritual master. Our personalities begin to be reshaped into imitations of him. Curiously, a young man from Brooklyn can develop an Indian or Hawaiian accent, depending on the origin of the guru. We begin to dress, walk and talk and phrase our sentences like him. Our families laugh at or silently tolerate our new names and mannerisms. And like iron, which seems so strong, it is a metal malleable when heated, brittle and easily broken when cold. We allow ourselves to be beaten into the image that our guru desires. In the end, it never satisfies because we did not do the spiritual work ourselves and it is not who we ever were intended to be.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 17, 2007 11:09PM
Yes. Zelig does seem suspicious.
Zelig has posted from many, many different IP addresses.
There have also been what I would consider personal attacks against "Cara" that I have deleted.
Thank you MeanReds for bringing this to my attention.
Perhaps Zelig should be very specific about why he or she is here? What is the purpose in posting?
Zelig has posted from many, many different IP addresses.
There have also been what I would consider personal attacks against "Cara" that I have deleted.
Thank you MeanReds for bringing this to my attention.
Perhaps Zelig should be very specific about why he or she is here? What is the purpose in posting?
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 18, 2007 02:01PM
I have noticed recently there have been a few posts that have not made it through, I really would have liked to see them just out of curiosity about wtf goes on in these people's heads. It is worth noting that none of them contact me, so I will continue to assume that they have absolutely nothing of substance to say. The soldiers of Krishna in the end are scared of a small woman.
What is going to happen friends is Science of Identity will go out of their way to expose the shameful details about me to discredit me although all they have is the fact that I was an abused child. The reference to Sybil in Zeligs post is an indication of this, they are in the phase of intimidation wanting to give me the impression that I am in imminent danger if I continue to dig. I am not a criminal, I have no criminal record whatsoever. I am not at all promiscuous or sufferring from a paranoid or delusional mental illness as they have done their best to convince me that I must be. I have an anxiety disorder that is associated with Post Traumatic Stress - an anxiety disorder that I did not have any signs of for years until after my involvement with SoI. I do not, although I could be bias in this respect, believe that victis of child abuse are to blame for what happened to the or that they should be induced to live in shame through shameless attempts of blackmail that will be revealed that I am "damaged goods" etc. SoI makes similar allegations against gay men claiming that they are all sexually abused as children and therefore are child abusers theselves. It is a perverted and unfounded idea that does not have much currency in civilised or thinking society. It is reminiscent of the Scientology auditors using people's personal information gathered under the guise of therapy against them. I am not the one with anything to hide.
I have had word from SoI though one disciple as I have mentioned, and I have had recent contact from their most emminent Judas aka Brendon. I have seen the truth of what they will resort to when criticised and I have seen that they are infact afraid. It's a good thing. The absudity of making claims about me is that anyone can contact me and hundreds of people have done so. There was a picture of me on my last blog. My phone number has been well publicised on the site and if anyone would like it they need only ask and they can call up and talk to the real person that I am - just like the Gold Coast Bulletin did.
Anyway if this stupidity is not going to carry on I will be happy to let it die the death that the persona of zelig surely will now. SoI needs to replan and strategise some more and have one of their meetings.
Private Eye and anyone who wants to dig in the politics I have a present for you. Have a look about in the complaints which were made regarding Gabbard's capaign contributions, maybe have a look at his wife as well. I have seen references that there was a formal coplaint that money was being donated by people who had incomes which belied their generosity, the inference being that the cult was funneling money into the campaign, which they surely were. I dont really understand how American politics work in any practical way, it is a very different system here, so someone with a bit of savvy would be a big help. Look in particular at dates around 2000 and if you like at the process of complaints, maybe something can still be done. I have insider info from someone who worked on the campaign and I would be willing to detail and sign an affidavit to this effect. This is something that the hawaiian media may well be interested in so I will throw out the idea and hope that some of the very dedicated and genuine contributors here would like to help out on this. I could surely find a newspaper myself but I am open to any suggestions from those who know the local landscape or perhaps know anyone that would like an exclusive interview regarding Mike Gabbards involvement with SoI and how the campaign went down. Email or PM if you like.
What is going to happen friends is Science of Identity will go out of their way to expose the shameful details about me to discredit me although all they have is the fact that I was an abused child. The reference to Sybil in Zeligs post is an indication of this, they are in the phase of intimidation wanting to give me the impression that I am in imminent danger if I continue to dig. I am not a criminal, I have no criminal record whatsoever. I am not at all promiscuous or sufferring from a paranoid or delusional mental illness as they have done their best to convince me that I must be. I have an anxiety disorder that is associated with Post Traumatic Stress - an anxiety disorder that I did not have any signs of for years until after my involvement with SoI. I do not, although I could be bias in this respect, believe that victis of child abuse are to blame for what happened to the or that they should be induced to live in shame through shameless attempts of blackmail that will be revealed that I am "damaged goods" etc. SoI makes similar allegations against gay men claiming that they are all sexually abused as children and therefore are child abusers theselves. It is a perverted and unfounded idea that does not have much currency in civilised or thinking society. It is reminiscent of the Scientology auditors using people's personal information gathered under the guise of therapy against them. I am not the one with anything to hide.
I have had word from SoI though one disciple as I have mentioned, and I have had recent contact from their most emminent Judas aka Brendon. I have seen the truth of what they will resort to when criticised and I have seen that they are infact afraid. It's a good thing. The absudity of making claims about me is that anyone can contact me and hundreds of people have done so. There was a picture of me on my last blog. My phone number has been well publicised on the site and if anyone would like it they need only ask and they can call up and talk to the real person that I am - just like the Gold Coast Bulletin did.
Anyway if this stupidity is not going to carry on I will be happy to let it die the death that the persona of zelig surely will now. SoI needs to replan and strategise some more and have one of their meetings.
Private Eye and anyone who wants to dig in the politics I have a present for you. Have a look about in the complaints which were made regarding Gabbard's capaign contributions, maybe have a look at his wife as well. I have seen references that there was a formal coplaint that money was being donated by people who had incomes which belied their generosity, the inference being that the cult was funneling money into the campaign, which they surely were. I dont really understand how American politics work in any practical way, it is a very different system here, so someone with a bit of savvy would be a big help. Look in particular at dates around 2000 and if you like at the process of complaints, maybe something can still be done. I have insider info from someone who worked on the campaign and I would be willing to detail and sign an affidavit to this effect. This is something that the hawaiian media may well be interested in so I will throw out the idea and hope that some of the very dedicated and genuine contributors here would like to help out on this. I could surely find a newspaper myself but I am open to any suggestions from those who know the local landscape or perhaps know anyone that would like an exclusive interview regarding Mike Gabbards involvement with SoI and how the campaign went down. Email or PM if you like.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 18, 2007 08:03PM
Please don't pursue personal attacks here.
The focus of this thread is the Chris Butler group.
Disagreements between former members should not become a subject to focus on here.
The focus of this thread is the Chris Butler group.
Disagreements between former members should not become a subject to focus on here.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: May 18, 2007 09:36PM
Quote
privateye
Thanks zelig and cult for the feedback. Thanks zelig for the save.
I have been busy but have a little time for research now. Although I am more interested in the political agenda of Chris Butler I will post whatever I come across. I found this today. Apparently the Science of Identity Foundation is famous as a deviant Hindu group even in India. The following quote is taken from an article recently posted at the hare krishna website, 'Sampradaya Sun'. It is by a Hindu activist who apparently knows about Chris Butler and his cult.
"Furthermore, the idea that Jesus is Brahma is a concoction that you have borrowed from a deviant Hindu group [Science of Identity Foundation] in Hawaii." Pradeep Sharma
[www.harekrsna.com]
full article^
Should I post the full article here?
Thanks, Private-eye.
I think they got this idea of Jesus being Brahma, because Brahma is the "creator" for the Hindus, and some Christians see Jesus also as the "creator" as well.
It's interesting to see the "real" Hindus call them a "deviant group" --
that is hilarious :lol:
No need to post the full article - we can click on the above link!
:D
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: May 18, 2007 09:42PM
Quote
martid
Where did this thing about disciples eating Chris Butler's toenails come from ??
umm, I have a hard time believing this ...
From my experience the group people I have met are quite clean and civilized people and they promote being clean & stuff.
Why would they eat this toenails anyway & why would he allow his toenails to be eaten?
Was it Bart Simpson who said "Eat my shorts" ?
I wonder if Vd's idea to eat his toenails has the same connotation.
Can this phenomenon really be considered
a way to get spiritual purification?
Or is it just one person's method of
lording it over other people?
Seems like this phenomenon belongs
in the realm of "black arts" or "black magic"
:?:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 19, 2007 01:37AM
Quote
American (HI) founded Science of Identity in 1977. Some Hare Krishna forms, though they (ISKCON) disavow him. Shifting orgs and sites – many many bloggy sites with just a page of quotes and comments, often just on one Upanishad, as if that's the only scripture he has read, though other masters also figure in citations – suggest one step ahead of the law, no firm home base. And "Jagadguru." Deeply suspect, with well-developed anti-site to testify.
[www.globalserve.net]
Conflicting reports have started appearing through Krishna forums - is Sudama Vipra alive or dead?
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 19, 2007 07:47AM
The Religion of Slavery[/color:e5b2f55d39]
The whole KC philosophy cultivates dependence and subservience to the ruling class which evolved into system of gurus and disciples. The reasons why and who advances through this are obvious. As far as what defines a cult is concerned KC has literally made being in a cult their religion.
The Bhagavad-Gita was originally written between 1st century BC and 2nd Century AD
Traditional Hinduism's strict, hierarchical caste system: Brahmins (ruling class of priests), ksatriyas (warriors); vaisyas (farmers, herders, merchants), sudras (servants and slaves), pariahs (outcasts, untouchables); membership in caste determined by birth; emphasis on obedience and performance of one's dharma (duty) within the caste of one's birth; belief in reincarnation and transmigration of souls from one kind of body to another (samsara)
Buddhism, religion which arose in India as a reaction against the inequalities and rigidities of Hinduism. Based on the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha), a sage who was active sometime between the 6th and the 4th c. BC.
Caste system undermined by egalitarian character of Buddhism; Buddhism emphasized the idea of karma (destiny determined by one's actions), the extinguishing of passion/desire, peaceful coexistence with all living things, and enlightenment
The Bhagavad Gita was crafted by members of the Brahmin caste in an effort to counteract the rising influence of Buddhism; new concepts: karma yoga ("discipline of action"), dutiful, disciplined action without personal desire, sacred duty; bhakti yoga ("discipline of devotion")
[fajardo-acosta.com]
Chapter 4, Text 34 As It Is Translation by ACB - The quote at the start of most episodes of Jagad Guru Speaks [asitis.com]
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.
Purport : One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige.
The whole KC philosophy cultivates dependence and subservience to the ruling class which evolved into system of gurus and disciples. The reasons why and who advances through this are obvious. As far as what defines a cult is concerned KC has literally made being in a cult their religion.
The Bhagavad-Gita was originally written between 1st century BC and 2nd Century AD
Traditional Hinduism's strict, hierarchical caste system: Brahmins (ruling class of priests), ksatriyas (warriors); vaisyas (farmers, herders, merchants), sudras (servants and slaves), pariahs (outcasts, untouchables); membership in caste determined by birth; emphasis on obedience and performance of one's dharma (duty) within the caste of one's birth; belief in reincarnation and transmigration of souls from one kind of body to another (samsara)
Buddhism, religion which arose in India as a reaction against the inequalities and rigidities of Hinduism. Based on the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha), a sage who was active sometime between the 6th and the 4th c. BC.
Caste system undermined by egalitarian character of Buddhism; Buddhism emphasized the idea of karma (destiny determined by one's actions), the extinguishing of passion/desire, peaceful coexistence with all living things, and enlightenment
The Bhagavad Gita was crafted by members of the Brahmin caste in an effort to counteract the rising influence of Buddhism; new concepts: karma yoga ("discipline of action"), dutiful, disciplined action without personal desire, sacred duty; bhakti yoga ("discipline of devotion")
[fajardo-acosta.com]
Chapter 4, Text 34 As It Is Translation by ACB - The quote at the start of most episodes of Jagad Guru Speaks [asitis.com]
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.
Purport : One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige.
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