From the book Windows to the Spiritual World about artist Puskar, born Matthew Goldman, on January 1 and 1947.

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Puskar met a Young American spiritual teacher named “Sai” who had developed quite a following ON the islands and began living with them in an ashram. “In those surroundings my life became regulated and peaceful. Each of us would get up very early and bathe and then together chant and read. In front of the house was an organic garden. In the back were avocados, papayas and the like. We'd go down the road and fetch wild mangoes for breakfast.”

“While at the ashram in Maui, I saw paintings from the First Volume of Krsna and A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada's summary study of Krsna's pastimes as found in the Tenth Canto of the Bhagavat Purana and also known as Srimad Bhagavatam. These early paintings struck me with their unique liveliness. Around this time a local branch of ISKCON and the International Society for Krishna Consciousness opened ON the islands.

[b:a3e92d1228]Sai's teachings were really those of Srila Prabhupada's, and Sai was not explaining this to his followers [/b:a3e92d1228]nor was he initiated himself and which is necessary to act as a spiritual master. Being sincere, [b:a3e92d1228]Sai requested his followers to take “diksa” or spiritual initiation from Bhaktivedanta Swami and in groups of ten persons and sent them around the world to various branches of ISKCON[/b:a3e92d1228]. Puskar was sent to Los Angeles and Sai also become initiated.

[tinyurl.com]

Another recollection of Sid, this one was published in 1997 by the Bhatktivedanta Book Trust and showed up on Japanese Amazon (yeah we do get into everything)

As I know I have mentioned before it is very curious how the joining up of ISKCON took place. The sum of information to date is Sai wrote to ACB seeking initiation [b:a3e92d1228][u:a3e92d1228]with[/u:a3e92d1228][/b:a3e92d1228] the offer of $28 800, followers and property, all copies of Sai Speaks were ordered burnt, Sai's followers were ordered to shave their heads, wear dhoti and adopt standards that had not mattered before (or after), including to conceal the drug taking then they were split up into groups and sent to specific locations.

Now consider that within two years from Sai and his followers initiations in 1971 Tusta was already leading a break away group in New Zealand and as we have confirmed just recently both the New Zealand and Hawaii temples were sold - NZ by Tusta who is Sai's closest friend, loyal disciple and chief henchman, and Hawaii by Sid. There are letters and two very detailed biographies of former ACB disciples, particularly the Transcendental Diaries of Hari Sauri which document (to say the least) that Sid was always about doing his own thing which directly included disobeying numerous fundamental instructions of Krishna Consciouness as directed by ACB. Science of Identity was registered six months prior to ACB's death just as his health started to go down hill.

If this was not a planned infiltration with a specific goal already in mind then it certainly does a very good impression of one.

Just as the Branch Davidians that broke away from the established traditions of the Seventh Day Adventists Science of Identity is not only a destructive cult bt obviously thelogically deceptive and flawed. The necessity of following the disciplic succession as according to the scripture does not allow or anyone to believe that Chris Butler is qualified. The issue here is not even a question of faith but abject stupidity and willful ignorance. There is not a single redeeming quality in Science of Identity. The followers will never come forward and Chris Butler will never come down from his hill because the truth is competely unambiguous and devoid of contradiction. That battle would have been won a lot sooner if I had not been wishing so much for some sign of decency or something to regenerate the faith that I once had, but nevermind. At least I finally took some time to recover and reflect and remember how happy I am to be where I am right now.

:?: Does anyone know about an organisation Mantra Meditation Hawaii being founded in the early seventies? It later became Mantra Meditation International.


I've edited your link. Please use TinyURL if you are posting one this long. It really messes up the whole thread. --Moderator[/color:a3e92d1228]

The whole affair with SoI trying to bribe me has officially reached hilarious proportions with me getting an email this morning from the Brendoid this morning reminding me that he still has his restraining order (the piece of paper that says a big brave devotee of the Ninjai tribe is scared of a small woman who he doesn't even lie to say has threatened him or even gone near him.)

Seriously if I gave a shit he'd be the first one I'd give it to. I haven't spoken to him for a month which was the last time he called me. The comedy is that it is obvious that he is copping it from the disciples and they are well aware of who the original exposer of SoI really is and realising they may eat his toenails and hand over their money to him and all that - but that is really only to save themselves and out of fear of Chris Butler. The devotees have fear down to a fine art, but when it comes to love or devotion he cant even inspire one student to stop being a complete arse (an arse contrary to the teachings he claims to give his life to no less) to act to save him from public humiliation. He cant inspire one follower at all to come to his defence. That is so sad as to be pathetic. I hope it is true that Chris Butler is just a power hungry meglomaniacal materialist because if he set out to get people to love him as they should love Krishna he has given his life to achieving absolutely nothing.

I was in Laguna Beach at the time Jagad Guru gave the instruction that Sai Speaks should all be burned. I think it was around 1972. Here’s what happened. At the time, Siddhaswarup was giving lectures in the Laguna area. There were still a lot of hippies and former hippies in the area, and some of those who were with him in the Krishna Yoga Community proposed that instead of letting all the Sai Speaks books (which had some good information in them, as well as pictures of Gopala) go to waste, they could be given away for free to people who came to lectures or people in the area. A handful of the books were therefore distributed by some of his former students. Siddhaswarup did not feel comfortable with that, however, and brought the issue up with Srila Prabhupad, who was in LA at the time. At that time, Srila Prabhupad instructed Siddhaswarup that it would not be very good to be distributing those books, that it would be better not to do it. After receiving this instruction from his spiritual master, Siddhaswarup ordered that all the books be destroyed. (To my recollection there were around 10,000 copies). A number of people expressed their opinion that it would be a waste to destroy them and felt they should be distributed. Siddhaswarup’s conclusion, however, was that the most pleasing thing to his spiritual master was if he had them destroyed.

It's great to see three new people joinng the discussion :D doesnt seem like it will end anytime soon.

That is very interesting Crass. This is the letter which is under Sai Speaks on www.cultofbutler.com - at least all those devotees who wanted it preserved got their wish :wink:

Los Angeles

15th June, 1972

Laguna Beach


My Dear Siddha Svarupananda,

Please accept my blessings. Just now I am in receipt of some pamphlets and one booklet entitled ``Sai Speaks'', so I see so many discrepancies from our line of action in devotional service. I do not know if you are again acting upon your old principles on the guise of becoming a Sannyasi from our disciplic succession. This cannot be allowed. If you are sincere to our line of action, please come here to Los Angeles and live with me for some time. If not, then you can disclose your mind frankly what you want to do. I cannot allow you to do all these things which are completely detrimental to our line of disciplic succession.

I shall be glad if you come here to stay with me, so I shall expect your reply one way or the other. Meanwhile hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
ACBS/sda

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GARDENING,RV,RIVER,LANDSCAPING,PONDS,FALL,GOAT,ACRE,FAL
L,DAIRY,ORGANIC
THE MEDITATION RETREAT CENTER in Sacramento is five minutes from the American River and trails. It has two wooded acres of organic vegetable gardens, waterfalls and koi ponds, Gardening, landscaping, maintenance, dairy goat care, cheese and soap making, yoga and meditation programs, t’ai chi and chi kung classes. People interested in self-realization and spiritual life will enjoy the atmosphere here. Room and vegetarian meals and free classes in all of the above provided in exchange for your volunteer service. Please XXXXXXX Uddhava Harvey

[www.caretaker.org]

Here is a blog about the Sacremento Centre - Lotus Gardens run by Linda Harvey (Uddhava dasi) a big family in the cult involved with son Michael Harvey very involved in the scam that is healing Noni farming and Harvey names appearing on key business registration documents for SoI

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Here, the communal kitchen means there's always an assortment of quick and tasty stuff for lunch. It also means the bread is gone by the morning. I check both refrigerators, the freezer and a row of lower cupboards, hoping to find some baked breakfast goodness. Nothing. Except that foil covered pie plate in the corner of the counter. Across the top is written…

“This is not for you.
It’s for Krishna.
No peaking. Please.”

Another breakfast of rice and apple.

The contents of the pie plate aren’t the only secret here.

I can't tell you about using the back door to enter a European embassy in the Middle East. Or about crawling under a truck to hide and not openly offend Allah while drinking. I’m not sure if I can tell you about curing cancer with silica, guru "shopping" at age 18, teaching yoga at Folsom prison or working for TV Guide. Brad and I signed confidentiality agreements.

There is a lot more reading on the blog link.

Yet another SoI farm exploiting those who want to travel and volunteer in exchange for accomodation.

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This is not a farm, it is a religous retreat center loosely affiliated with the Hare Krishna teachings (they claim that it is not because Krishnas have become 'impure). They farm a tiny 1/8 acre garden plot, and have two goats. The work is easy to non-existant (mainly office work and dusting), and would be good for someone interested in the strict teachings of the Hare Krishna sect (seperation of the sexes, material world as a hell that you will escape in heaven if you live a pure life, etc). For me, it was a bit stifling and the religious gatherings were a bit frightening. I stayed less than a week.

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They practice a very specific style of mantra meditation, which seems more like prayer than meditation to me. You will be exposed to some dogma, but if you can get past it you will find a great community of fairly open-minded folk.

[www.organicvolunteers.com]

Since links have come up to the Dharma Farms blog which told of very negative experiences the WWOOF website has attracted a huge increase of reviews - all positive. Through the progression of this conversation, particularly the latest spam campaign centering on free classifieds websites and our own experiences in the cult we all know that SoI will resort to childish (and cheap) tactics in order to try to make themselves look good.

I can't seem to find the link for the centre at the moment although I am pretty sure that they have one.

Here is the blog link refered to in the my last post.

[owlhouseblog.blogspot.com]

Babhru prabhu and Mahaksa dasa discuss in more detail the early Iskcon and Sai Speaks from the KYC on Indiadivine.

The Ontological Primer was a small book by Gaurasundar which claimed to prove the existence of God which could possibly have inspired Siddha to write his books that discuss the existence of the soul and the reality of reincarnation under the guise of science.

Many of the other names mentioned here are discussed on this thread and others will possibly remember people of that era.

[www.indiadivine.org]

Some of these people still live on the Hawaiian Islands in ISKCON or other movements like Turiya das who opened his own ashram in Maui Chaitanya Vaishnava Sanga after Bhaktivedanta left and the GBC took over. He was also a founder of WVA.

Here Babhru's blog where recently he discusses how he came to join ISKCON. He spent quite a few years with Siddha in the early days.

Just last month he wrote "How Krishna Consciousness Came into My Life, Pt. 1"

[audaryabhavan.blogspot.com]

Mahaksa dasa also has a webpage on geocities. In the Dandavats and acknowledgements link he only names Bhaktivedanta swami and Siddhaswarupananda. He has published eighteen pearls of wisdom by Siddha.

In his '95 internet-novel song titled "Point Surf" dedicated to Siksa guru he says, "Jagat Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa teaches me daily, though I stay hidden away for 20 years, and I am overwhelmed at his kindness. "

[www.geocities.com]

Mahak's article on VNN defending Siddha:

[www.vnn.org]

Another important piece of information is a "To whom it ay concern letter" written by Bhaktivedanta a month or so before Sai/Siddha requested initiation from his guru and offered so much property and money in 1970:

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In the meantime I am enclosing one circular letter to whom it may concern and I authorize you to print them profusely and distribute to the public so that the misunderstandng created by Sai may be dissipated. Please keep me informed of your activities and I shall be glad to receive my maintainance charges regularly.

I am always thinking of returning to Hawaii again and staying there conveniently. It is a very nice place.

[krishnascience.com]

Although I am unaware of what public misunderstanding he could have created perhaps someone who was there at the time could explain.

SoI's campaign of spam may have backfired :

[tinyurl.com]

:lol:

Oh Cult-repo; that is hilarious. May the farce be with you!

To Clarify on my previous two posts regarding Mahaksada and Babhru prabhu (alias stonehearted) from Hawaii:

You will notice that Mahak in particular (who claims to have no involvement with SIF and his siksa guru is siddhaswarupa) has been defending Siddha promptly for at least the last six years on all the main vaishnava sites.

This is convenient for Siddha and his followers (who have no involvement on the internet due to fear of hearing offences) to have an indirect follower do the PR work. Siddha avoids rampant criticisms against him, he gains great advertising, he maintains his holier-than-thou position and never once does he or his followers need to ever defend their cult.

Pada claims that Mahaksadasa has argued with him that 'at least Siddha is not a child molester'. He points out the absurdity of making this the qualification of Guru.

The other benefit is that Mahaksadasa claims he does not wish to hear any criticisms while he criticises Pada completely. So his values are selective, much like Siddha's, where he can opt out of a discussion based on this principle while he doesn't feel he needs to maintain it himself.

Mahaksadasa also has the secrecy around Siddha's group which assists him to act as an authority on the group having been there 30 years ago.

On the following thread multiple posts are made by Siddha's followers stating how great he is. The only prominent defender of those against critical questions is Mahaksadasa. He blatantly lies when asked about Siddha claiming to be Jagad Guru as this is the name as the author on most of his books and the title of his cable tv lectures series aired internationally. None of Siddha's followers attempt to correct this lie.

[www.indiadivine.org]

The request for evidence that Nityananda was a Sanyassi and had fallen down is completely ignored and no answer is given regarding Siddha being a fallen Sanyassi.

Throughout the internet for many years Mahak appears to have acted as an agent for SIF. Babhru claims to irregularly attend SIF gatherings while the two are close friends.

On this thread valaya towards the end of the thread states (from the view point of a current follower in Toronto) the following:

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Sorry to say, but it isn't only ISKCON, although they're more obvious because of the many temples, feastivals, etc. Siddhaswarupananda's group is actually far worse in this regard, in Toronto anyway. At least if you keep to yourself, you're generally welcome in ISKCON and you can just merge into the crowd, although you have to be careful not to let anyone provoke or trick you into revealing your inner faith and true sentiments (like in your post above!). Someone may act interested or appear sympathetic, then run to the authorities hoping to score brownie points!

Just act like a complete neophyte and try to appear grateful when they `preach` to you. Above all be humble and tolerant at all times. On the other hand, Siddhaswarupananda's followers are closely monitored and forbidden to have anything to do with ISKCON. They're expected to act like only their group and guru exist. Of course, he is considered the ONLY authorized representative of God. Someone like me is actively put through the third degree and NO ONE is allowed to speak with the `guests` until they've been regularly coming for 6 months. I couldn't reveal my past even to other `devotees`, let alone share books with anyone. I was almost frisked at the door and kept under constant scrutiny. Not that I blame them since I do understand where they're coming from, but it's difficult not to be yourself, especially in a small intimate group. In fact, I found it impossible...

[www.indiadivine.org]

(*This thread has further discussion of Siddha in the early 70s on page one - worth a look*)

Babhru and Mahak discontinue defending Siddha as arguing with a current regular follower assumedly due to their involvement 30 years previously and admitted limited involement since. It's much easier to argue with those who haven't even the opportunity to see an SIF website.

This further adds to the fact that SIF is highly deceptive and cannot under any circumstances defend their cult and simply resorts to damage control as they have with this RR thread and the Chriskcon forum by using covert characters who anonymously attempt to assasinate Cara's character rather than address what she says.

I will post more Babhru and Mahaksadasa discussions.