I haven't even got to ACB saying ten to twelve year old girls should be married off and you're all already making defenses for them.
Your comparisons to an old fictional manuscript and the catholic church are neither helpful nor relevant. Your minimizations of Butler and his cult makes it difficult to explain this cult to others. So tone it down and get with the program. Capiche?
The only person here who doesn't "capiche" is you. No one here has ever defended girls getting married off at age 12! You also missed the point about morality tales. The comparisons in NO WAY minimized the cult of Butler, but rather compared his cult to backwards, medieval ideas --- the dark ages!
If you knew the history, you would have seen that. Maybe too subtle... So before you start waving your "irrelevant!" flag again, make sure you understand the post.
Apparently you have no familiarity with Dante's Inferno (not the video game, kids) so did not see the similarities between that and the gauche propaganda paintings of ISKCON and SIF publications. The garish ISKCON images you posted are also like modern day Hieronymus Bosch paintings --- also made to scare the masses into submission. Hieronymus Bosch's Hell
It is also a common cult tactic (the use of imagery) and making this comparison in no way minimizes Butler's cult! When employed by cult leaders who raise children outside of mainstream society --- it is a form of mind control. In fact, it makes the cult look even worse, absolutely medievel, and backwards!!!!
At the time of Dante's Inferno and Hieronymus Bosch, the masses of people did not have an understanding of modern science, astronomy, psychology, anatomy, physiology. For example, they believed that illness was caused by sins and that the earth was flat. People either believed in the churches' teachings or risked things like "Autos de Fe" (being burnt at the stake for heresy) Spanish Inquisition
This cult also has erroneous ideas about science which has been brought up on this forum before.Check out the Circles of Hell
Virgil guides Dante through the nine circles of Hell. The circles are concentric, representing a gradual increase in wickedness, and culminating at the center of the earth, where Satan is held in bondage. Each circle's sinners are punished in a fashion fitting their crimes: each sinner is afflicted for all of eternity by the chief sin he committed.
See Dore's depictions of Dante's Inferno, in which the sins of avarice, greed and lust are depicted in medieval terms. Compare with ISKCON/SIF's gawdy imitations:Check out Canto's 13,14,19,21,24Now here is the point - These type of fear tactics and use of imagery is medieval - a euphemism for ignorant, archaic, backwards, perverted, against truth and knowledge!
The Catholic Church has made some changes in their doctrines over time (although many will argue a need for more improvements). The Butler cult, on the other hand, because it is a cult, can not change. Butler discourages any education outside of what skills are needed to run his little empire and fraud. Butler, with Messianic delusions, makes up his own philosophy as it serves his narcissistic needs. He knows that with a little education, with an understanding of history and science, that his followers will develop critical thinking skills and realize that their fearless leader has clay feet.
So Jason, before you start again with your habitual flaming of everyone as being less relevant and less useful than you, make sure you understand what they are saying and respect their points of views, even if they differ from yours! This forum is for people to discuss the Butler group and how and why it is a dangerous cult. Everyone is coming from different angles and experiences. The forum is not here for you to be the relevancy police.You have a lot to offer this forum and have made some good points, but so have others. Please refrain from attacking people on this forum and play nice.
Just to clarify more --- I wrote:
Anyone here ever read Dante's "Inferno" describing the circles of hell? Same stuff really -- with the protagonist going on to follow the right path in life, to live righteous, universal values. Same theme in Dicken's novel "A Christmas Carol" and even "Pinnochio". Human beings seem to love fairy stories and are motivated by morality tales. So cult leaders use the same fear tactics on followers as with children.
My friend, who was in the cult, shared with me that those images did have a visceral (subliminal) effect on him. They were disturbing, not because the depictions of lust and avarice elicited a fear of Yamadutas, but because these are the very images used to control cult members into thinking that if you leave the service of Butler that you will become like this! Children are raised to believe this. They also think that all the people on this forum speaking out against Butler will have this horrible fate. They are pumped up to fear "outsiders". Posting those images and quotes could also be easily construed as warnings from SIF to members and ex-members viewing this forum. Mind control triggers. As terrenaut pointed out, it is so much in Butler's history to operate and play games like this! SIF members will also answer you, "yes it is a cult". So posts should be very clear as to meaning and intent. Hopefully, this forum will not degenerate again into nasty, paranoid, and aggressive attacks on other anti-cult members whose opinions may differ!!!
An additional point missed was that these images are used as mind control tools as much as cult sayings and trigger phrases are used to shut down critical thinking! My friend was validating the power of imagery in cults upon its adherents
. Was that not your same point? That the images are used as propaganda! You, yourself compared one image to a WWII propaganda poster that demonizes the enemy. Are you minimizing the cult with this comparison? No more than I did with Dante. Using the same/ similar fear tactics that worked in the dark ages, still works today if you keep followers in fear of education --- the very education that would develop critical thinking skills and get them to question the belief system set up to keep Butler in control and his slave ship rowing! If your purpose here is to disrupt the thread, then you will fail to see the validity of these points.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2009 02:53AM by Vera City.