Quote
emntk
If SOI wanted to clear their reputation and state that anything said on this forum is untrue they are perfectly capable of that. If there was no attempting to convert followers and someone signed up to state that the organisation which has a multitude of businesses, whose reputation would be affected by such publically available information, is innocent of any wrong doing such as neglecting their children that would be perfectly acceptable with the rules of the forum. ....
So I think we should let the organisation whose representatives are in the best position to provide evidence or information regarding the validity of this thread. But I think their silence and history of secretive behaviors and not being transparent inside the many branches of the Science of Identity is the best evidence of all.
Quote
zelig
Heh, heh :lol:
Really got me going there.... I am now doubting the veracity and authenticity of this Living Force blog. When they repeated obvious 'blasphemy' --- something a SOI person wouldn't do --- unless really young... The reason I asked if her parents knew is because they would discourage engaging in debate. Who knows....? If it is not a real blog, then at least it seems to represent SOI philosophy.
Quote
cultreporter
You doubt the authenticity and veracity of everything and ultimately your contributions to this forum are the reason why so many of the people that actually want to see Science of Identity exposed decide to leave and don't post here anymore or got banned.
You are incorrect. I have been straight forward from the beginning. All I offer are my words, experiences, and opinions. An opinion is just holding a different perspective on the same issue. I respect your opinions, but don’t always agree with them. I have always been clear that from my perspective, from experiences gleaned 20 years ago, that I did not personally have any knowledge of many of the things you have suggested (e.g., drug dealing, ISKcon connection, et al). That is my testimony. I won’t lie, make up stories or stretch the truth to make the case greater or to please anyone. That said, it doesn't mean that your theories are not true, only that I had no experience of them during my tenure in the group. And it is true that much could be hidden from the followers. But, as I have said before, even without a huge conspiracy theory and toe nail consumption, there was enough, there IS enough evidence for me and others to know that it is a damaging cult.Quote
cultreporter
The best trolls are the ones where you don't know they are. You can go back over this thread and before the digging really started going you were saying there was nothing to find. Then you try to minimise everything that is found and brand everyone as trolls and information as false and run interference through the PM system.
And your point is what? You are the only three on this or any other forum I have been on that use their real names. That’s your choice. It makes no difference in this context, in the context of this forum which is to discuss the ‘Krishna Group in Hawaii’. There are plenty of good reasons why people want to maintain their privacy and it is not always nefarious. You don’t respect this, fine.Quote
cultreporter
Ash, Rama and myself are the only ones that have been here with our real names
Quote
just-googlingQuote
zelig
A few questions to ask ‘Living Force’ [www.xanga.com]
and all SOI CHILDREN:
19- Did he not name himself Jagad Guru?
20- Do you know what the word ‘narcissism’ is?
For those SOI children without a formal education:
[b:2ff94a3e39]NARCISSISM[/b:2ff94a3e39]:[/size:2ff94a3e39] Tendency to self-worship, absorption in one's own personal perfections.
After reading his bio and seeing his full-page picture on just about every other page of his book "WHO ARE YOU?", I think this word definitely describes Chris Butler.
:x
Quote
Rick Ross is the one that banned people, not me, and for good reasons.
Quote
Yes, I am guided by a personal ethic that questions everything.
Quote
I also don’t believe in hurting innocent people still in the cult. I don’t believe in the credo, “by any means necessary” to attack the cult.
Quote
I think that there are ethical and judicious ways to expose a cult without being suicidal about it.
Quote
Rick Ross exposes cults and is able to do this with minimal
personal loss.
And your point is what? You are the only three on this or any other forum I have been on that use their real names.Quote
cultreporter
Ash, Rama and myself are the only ones that have been here with our real names
Quote
zelig
I found this in another area on the RR Forum. I couldn't help but see many parallels between SOI and the Rajneeshies. They had their Sheela and SOI has their Shreela! And she's running free too....
Rise and fall of rajneesh video
[youtube.com]
Quote
just-googling
:D Now I will know what kind of flower to offer :D
Maybe a new name change is in the works:
Siddhanarcissinanda Paramahamsa :?:
:D
Quote
zelig
The word narcissism comes from the Greek god Narcissis who fell in love with his own reflection. According to Greek mythology, Narcissis was the son of the river god Kephissos. He was a vain youth, who spent most of his time languishing by the waters, staring at his own reflection in abject self-adoration.
Quote
DharamRakshak
Me thinks that it is going to get awfully lonely up there on your pedestal Zelig….. An alias which by the way is from a Woody Allen movie.
The title character, Leonard Zelig (played by Woody Allen), is a man who has the ability to change his appearance to that of the people he is surrounded by.
Quote
I think that there are ethical and judicious ways to expose a cult without being suicidal about it.
Again, you are really stretching things out of proportion. That was no CB reference! If she is announcing her every move and location, it puts her at a distinct disadvantage and danger! That is simply a suicidal tactic. If you are going to war, learn the art of war and rules of engagement! The fact that you guys don’t get this is astounding! And if she gets dragged through the court system she will be of no use to herself or the cause! Evidently while you were languishing in the cult, you must not have learned how the real world works, especially for those with lots of resources! You guys are so naïve or possibly paranoid to interpret my comments as inimical! I don’t know how to be any more clear.Quote
DharamRakshak
Again references to Siddhaswarupananda's instructions and "suicidal" the favourite reference of those who leave as in committing spiritual suicide.
Quote
I also don’t believe in hurting innocent people still in the cult. I don’t believe in the credo, “by any means necessary” to attack the cult.
Quote
DharamRakshak
As Cara already stated there are no innocent people. … There are ignorant people - but ignorance is not an excuse. To stay in Science of Identity (and I indcit myself here) one has to be prepared to turn a blind eye to a lot of things. These people that you allude to as being victimised are the ones that will take up arms for Sri Guru so to speak that will attack and aim to discredit those who are trying to expose the evil of Sciene of Identity. The most valuable weapon that Siddhaswarupananda has is these faceless masses that are all too ready to do his bidding. As was said the most that anyone who is truely innocent will suffer is a bit of embarrassment and may wake up to themselves.
QuoteQuote
zelig
Heh, heh :lol:
Really got me going there.... I am now doubting the veracity and authenticity of this Living Force blog. When they repeated obvious 'blasphemy' --- something a SOI person wouldn't do --- unless really young... The reason I asked if her parents knew is because they would discourage engaging in debate. Who knows....? If it is not a real blog, then at least it seems to represent SOI philosophy.Quote
cultreporter
You doubt the authenticity and veracity of everything and ultimately your contributions to this forum are the reason why so many of the people that actually want to see Science of Identity exposed decide to leave and don't post here anymore or got banned.
Ouch! I find these comments very odd, because [b:636180f9c0]I have been a major critic of SOI and a cheif supporter of your efforts![/b:636180f9c0] Rick Ross is the one that banned people, not me, and for good reasons. Yes, I am guided by a personal ethic that questions everything. A question is not an opposition, only a request for proof or clarification. I also hold a high level when it comes to the burden of proof. I don’t believe in falsely accusing people, even if it is an enemy, without evidence. I also don’t believe in hurting innocent people still in the cult. I don’t believe in the credo, “by any means necessary” to attack the cult. I think that there are ethical and judicious ways to expose a cult without being suicidal about it. Rick Ross exposes cults and is able to do this with minimal personal loss. He maintains a robust and well monitored forum and wins in court. He maintains his credibility. It’s a good model to follow. That’s my opinion. If people leave the forum over one man’s opinion, then it is their choice. I refuse to be disingenuous.You are incorrect. I have been straight forward from the beginning. All I offer are my words, experiences, and opinions. An opinion is just holding a different perspective on the same issue. I respect your opinions, but don’t always agree with them. I have always been clear that from my perspective, from experiences gleaned 20 years ago, that I did not personally have any knowledge of many of the things you have suggested (e.g., drug dealing, ISKcon connection, et al). That is my testimony. I won’t lie, make up stories or stretch the truth to make the case greater or to please anyone. That said, it doesn't mean that your theories are not true, only that I had no experience of them during my tenure in the group. And it is true that much could be hidden from the followers. But, as I have said before, even without a huge conspiracy theory and toe nail consumption, there was enough, there IS enough evidence for me and others to know that it is a damaging cult.Quote
cultreporter
The best trolls are the ones where you don't know they are. You can go back over this thread and before the digging really started going you were saying there was nothing to find. Then you try to minimise everything that is found and brand everyone as trolls and information as false and run interference through the PM system.
Because I have questioned or could not confirm some of your theories and advised caution, I have been accused privately and publicly of being a troll, saboteur, of still being brainwashed, and worse. Rather than taking my questioning in the spirit it was given; [b:636180f9c0]to encourage you to prove your hypothesis with more research, to gather more evidence[/b:636180f9c0], you have instead attacked a friend.
[b:636180f9c0]I have neither minimized nor do I have the power to run interference on anyone’s efforts to expose SOI and Chris Butler. My whole concern was for your safety and longevity. I was sad to see your blogs go away[/b:636180f9c0] --- twice. Advertising your every move and location seems unwise. If you want to catch a cockroach you don’t turn the light on and watch them scatter into the cracks out of reach! I do believe that certain members of SOI have a potential for violence. I can say that I witnessed one of CB’s body guards carry a gun in his bead bag. Several guys were armed and fanatical enough to do any crazy thing. [b:636180f9c0] I have only advised that you take care of your health, get a lawyer, and work in stealth. I also advised you to guard your credibility and be cautious of information being given by ‘the enemy of my enemy”.[/b:636180f9c0]
[b:636180f9c0]You and Ash have provided quite a lot of formidable evidence against SOI and followed a lot of their paper trails. I’m looking forward to more fruits of your labors.[/b:636180f9c0] But, I don’t have to agree with you about everything you believe, either religiously or tactically. We do part ways on the issue of not respecting the privacy of non-public cult members. (You have even asked me to keep certain things about your life private, which [b:636180f9c0]I have respected.[/b:636180f9c0]) It is not just for their right to privacy, but also [b:636180f9c0]for your own protection.[/b:636180f9c0] But if you want to invite litigation, then so be it.
I see this forum as a place for people still in the cult to examine the experiences of others and give them good reasons to reassess their membership. Attacking and exposing non-public cult members will just make them cling more tenaciously to the group. If your arguments against the group come off as unreasoned, exaggerated, or underhanded, you help no one leave the cult. And people will be less likely to come forward to give you information. Focus on the head of the snake. Stick to the facts. Again, that is my opinion.And your point is what? You are the only three on this or any other forum I have been on that use their real names. That’s your choice. It makes no difference in this context, in the context of this forum which is to discuss the ‘Krishna Group in Hawaii’. There are plenty of good reasons why people want to maintain their privacy and it is not always nefarious. You don’t respect this, fine.Quote
cultreporter
Ash, Rama and myself are the only ones that have been here with our real names
[b:636180f9c0]I wish you well in your endeavors to expose Chris Butler and SOI, by definition, a dangerous cult. Anyone can take the time to see where I have encouraged and promoted your research throughout this forum. To think otherwise is beyond belief. It is counter productive to flame someone who has been so supportive of your efforts.[/b:636180f9c0]