I might have mentioned that I was told that I should post the link to that blog here and because I believe in free speech (unlike most webhosting providers) I did. Those who write to me and have written to me for a few months now would know that I have no interest in talking about their personal information or anything that they do not specifically say I can write about, and I make 100% sure with them that it is ok.

I don't know who the author is, although I have my suspicions of who it could be it really could be any of them as far as my experience of good little devotees go.

As an interest there are comments being added on this blog : [xeniux.blogdrive.com] (if I could work out how to post on this site I would - maybe some of you reading would like to have your say there and if you can work out how to leave comments please let me know)

It is years old and is just the Tusta biography of Siddha. Last I looked someone calling themselves Jagad Guru das was mouthing off about RR and saying devotees cant post here. That is wishful thinking on their behalf since there have been plenty of admitted and obvious devotees on this thread and other related threads. If they wanted to talk they could have posted comments on my blog but they never did and I have never received any contradictory emails or PMs from SOI members. Even RKd got in here and posted before getting banned by the forum rules. There are apologists and detractors and debates with two sides all over RR so to say that they cannot post here is just a self serving lie. If they break the rules that is another story but they can still get their say and they get warnings. RR is more open than Ninjai forums which claim to host spiritual discussions but ban anyone who mentions SOI or Siddha, the same as Planet Veggie which shut down their forums because someone mentioned SOI.

Once again the hypocrisy is obvious, but do not blame Rick Ross for your cowardice and inability to refute unflattering information. As a researcher and a thinking person I am sure that RR would like to see the SOI side as much as everyone else.

Zelig has made many excellent points, and I am sure that this blog if it continues will prove to be interesting reading. I feel very sorry for this girl (quite ironically as I am sure that she feels sorry for all of us) because I am sure that she thinks that everything she is writing is the truth and that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with it.

"Answers for Scientology Kids" is in my opinion a very good article that I would like to re-write for Krishna kids. If anyone would like to offer any input into this (there are several people that I hope will) I think it would be worthwhile. I notice many parallels in the existing article for kids raised in SOI (pretty much if you substitute Demons for Thetans you can almost hear Siddha talking at times)

[www.xenu.net]

Quote
zelig
Schooling divided by gender is not necessarily bad, but to characterize women as “cannot help being sexual, it is our nature to want to be pleasing to a man” raises a red flag!!! Are these girls being sexualized at a young age now? (Parallels between the cult “Children of God”?) What about the young men’s hormones? There is another similarity to radical Islamic teachings. In the Koran it states that every inch of a woman’s body is a sexual organ. This is the reasoning behind the burkahs and misogynist practices in Islam.

As a woman and recent escapee I would say that I noticed a lot of sympathy for Muslims among SOI members (despite Siddha's endorsement of the war against Muslims :? )

In Australia in recent years there have been several high profile gang rape cases where Muslim youth have offerred the defence that they did not know that what they were doing was illegal and that the women "asked for it" by dressing like "sluts". I have heard men in SOI say that women should wear burkahs and that it would make for a better society if they did (How about a bird flu mask? Is that enough of a turn off for ya?) There was talk about these cases and the opinion voiced (in front of women, none of whom protested or even appeared shocked) that if the women who were raped had been devotee women it would not have happened, and that the boys had a "good point"

Slut is a very ready insult among devotees that I knew. Also to say that women who wear revealing clothes or bikinis (you get a lot of women walking around in bikinis here being the beach and even just the tops with a little skirt or jeans because it is so hot) "know what they are doing" and that "if they were to get raped they were asking for it"

This is coming from men who get their pious attitudes from putting their faith in a guru that preaches one must control the senses and that women are inferior to men! Yet it would seem in this area that women have all the control and the poor boys just cant help themselves. :roll: Seriously how do you expect to preach to other people about how they should live their lives or achieve control of your mind through all this "meditation" if you can't even accept you are in control your own you know what? Women in bhurkas still get raped. Check out www.amnesty.org for one reference if you find this hard to believe.

When devotee women and girls act in a romantically or sexually forward way, such as asking men if they are married or looking for a wife (or a new wife) wearing very revealing clothing or rubbing up against men at kirtan (yes, I have seen this, I have been pushed out of the way by women wanting to get closer to Bren) nothing is seen as wrong with the behaviour. They refer to it as shakti which I think means sexual energy. It is very much girls will be girls as much as they have the boys will be boys reasoning. The most that would be done would be that a girl would be told to put on a jumper or a shirt to be a bit more modest about her cleavage, and only then so she does not distract the boys from their chanting.

I would think, although I don't have kids, that a caring and loving parent wanting to raise a daughter with self esteem and capability to make a value judgement about who a good husband rather than worrying about the boys would think to tell their daughter that one does not have to flaunt themselves like an object and court lust to have worth as a woman, and that any man who is attracted to that is extremely unlikely to make a good or faithful husband.

Quote
zelig
She wrote this in response to a rude email she recieved. She lacks a solid science education and thinks "anger pheremones" :lol: are why people get angry. I guess she imagines that by chanting and eating vegetarian food a person never gets upset....

SOI in Australia now by my experience and going back always from my sources have not now or ever had any teachers so what the kids here would learn would be extroadinarily limited. As for science and the rule of no useless information I guess it would extend to the world revolves around Siddha because the sun shines out of his butt and how not to burn the sweet rice that you are cooking for husband.

From what I have heard all they do is chant and hear about Krishna all day, all day being maybe 4 hours every second or third day or as their parents feel like taking them. Children I knew can sing Narasingha prayers (which are the most complicated and seem to take most people time to learn) and guru-puja (altar worship) but they cannot even read or write their own name. Most of the parents now were raised in the cult - so what education will they be able to pass onto their children?

In Australia home schooling is not illegal but it is regulated. SOI devotees are kidding themselves if they think what they are doing is legal. They need permission from the Dept of Education for a start and to ensure the rights of the child are protected and they receive an education there are standards that have to be adhered to. There are lots of independent schools, but SOI is not one of them. Is there any reason as a responsible person who knows that children are being denied an education that I should not approach the relveant authorities with this? Who is looking out for these kids and where are their rights?

Quote

He would yell and scream and condemn people's spiritual life over a peice of tofu! [/color:8d4695823e]

I am sure there is no shortage of people going to hell over Siddha's tofu.

I have a few questions out of curiosity :
What does the man eat?
What is this kitchen like?
Why does he have to be served food so many times a day? (I know it can't be because he thinks he is Jagganatha who likes to be served many different types of food because he is always smiling)
What does Wai Lana call him?
Does anyone ever call him Chris to his face? because I was told that this is an extreme offence

Quote
zelig
So why is it that Chris Butler would get very angry if his vegetarian food was not cooked to his liking? He would yell and scream and condemn people's spiritual life over a peice of tofu! ...

:lol: [b:05c6638840]Yes, this is true![/b:05c6638840] But I suppose they may try to justify this by saying that Chris gets his anger directly from Big K in order to purify us, or some other such [b:05c6638840]nonsense[/b:05c6638840].

There is a story in the 10th Canto, is there not?, about a pious Vaisya (farmer) who donated ten thousand cows to the brahmanas (Priest) and these cows were all decorated with gold, and it was a very opulent offering... (even by today's standards, would be worth millions!)...

However, one of the 10,000 cows accidentally managed to walk back out of the arena and back to the farmer's remaining herd. The Brahmana became very upset and [b:05c6638840]ANGERED[/b:05c6638840] by this, even though the farmer apologized for the mistake and offered to placate him by giving him even more...

HOWEVER, the Brahmana, [b:05c6638840]IN A FIT OF ANGER[/b:05c6638840], cursed the farmer to take birth as a lizard. :x :o

This story seems somewhat similar to old Chris condemning his servants to go to hell. [/color:05c6638840]

I wonder where this brahmana got his "anger pheronomes" from? :?

:?

This kind of anger appears to the common man to be

[b:d58c465763]RIDICULOUS,

CHILDISH,

SELFISH,

IRRATIONAL[/b:d58c465763]

and uncalled-for, as does the anger fits displayed by Chris Butler.

Any comments?

:?:

Quote
just-googling
This kind of anger appears to the common man to be [b:ee15f20dbd]RIDICULOUS, CHILDISH, SELFISH, IRRATIONAL[/b:ee15f20dbd] and uncalled-for, as does the anger fits displayed by Chris Butler. Any comments? :?:

I am sure that everyone here that has had any involvement with Chris Butler and his thoroughly sectarian following has heard over and over how the spiritual master chastises his disciples and students "out of kindness".

Even his own followers cannot help but notice though that he is over the top and cruel in these 'chastisements' I have heard about CB with women that made food to offer him making them cry by telling them that it tasted like crap in front of everyone and upsetting children that have been brought to see him.

I always think about being told "If he knows you - the closer you are to him the more that he chastises you - if you don't know him at all you haven't been a follower for that long then he hardly says anything to you"

Translation :[/color:ee15f20dbd] Once you have taken up the idea that CB is the bonafide spiritual master of disciplic succession, pure devotee, great guru, and you [u:ee15f20dbd]need[/u:ee15f20dbd] a guru to have a spiritual life and he is THE ONE Chris Butler takes you for granted and craps all over you[/color:ee15f20dbd]

It is a typical abuse cycle which ultimately is a way of maintaining control over someone who you do not care about because if you did you would have basic compassion, emapthy and respect - qualities that a perfect spiritual master would have.

[www.allaboutlifechallenges.org]

Or Stockholm Syndrome

Quote

“They weren’t bad people. They let me eat, they let me sleep, they gave me my life”

— A hostage from Flight 847

[www.sniggle.net]

How many times have the followers and former followers here heard devotees and themselves saying "Where would I be without Srila Prabhupad? Srila Prabhuapd is soo ind to accept a piece of garbage like me - I am soo fortunate to have Srila Prabhupad come into my life"

It is ridiculous selfish irrational and childish. That is how people like Chris Butler are and that is why they surround themselves with people that feed that because there is very little else to them besides their ego.

Maybe this forum has run it's course and maybe not. A lot of people have left to move on down their own path, others I know of have been banned for various reasons.

I have plenty of writing to do and so much more information. In my blog just before it got deleted there was a list of names and photos of members of SOI. Many of them were meditation teachers who represent themselves as being non-sectarian and engage in the practices of brain washing and recruiting. Most were politicians, business identities and close disciples of Siddhaswarupananda. Some of them were just followers which I knew personally and yes quite nice people as far as I know.

It may well seem that this is crossing a line. When I first had my blog and Brendon contacted me to try and sweet talk me into changing my mind about it and take it down he implored me not to hurt the innocent people.

As far as I am concerned there are no innocent people in SOI. They are part of an organisation that is destroying life. Anyone who raises a child there is about to destroy a life. Everytime one of them befriends someone and gives them a favourable impression of Chris Butler they are destroying a life.

If you are ashamed of who your guru is or was then don't follow him.[/color:8df67a8dac]

I have no sympathy for the people that left years ago and I do not aim to take orders from them, although I have been expected to many times over. If these people wanted to speak out they had their chance to do so. They have a right to their choice not to do so as do I. If someone had spoken out then my life would be a hell of a lot different. My best friends life would be a hell of a lot different, Brendon's life would be a hell of a lot different, Rama's, people wouldnt have lost their children. The only consequences of my actions now is a few people may get a bit embarrassed that they belong to a crazy cult and see pictures (which I got from public access internet in the first place) of themselves and maybe be provoked to re-evaluate their place in life.

Ultimately all I have to say is Fuck Science of Identity Fuck Chris Butler and [u:8df67a8dac]Anyone[/u:8df67a8dac] who thinks that he is worth anywhere near the thousands of lives he has destroyed. SOI went to war with me and I will keep it going until my last breath - there is nothing I wont do and no dark corner that I wont venture into to see them done damage. No further cajoling will be entered into. Either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem.

Since SOI doesnt permit for me to have a blog anyone that would like to be informed about SOI, share my research (including : documents being obtained under freedom of information, FBI and criminal investigations, product boycotts, access lectures and publications by Siddhaswarupananda, product boycotts, politics.... ) keep up with the controversy and be notified of my publications and website releases please follow the link to subscribe to my newsletter (think of it as a tamper free blog :wink: ) :

[krishnafriends.com]

Hey everyone, posters and lurkers (since I have become more of the latter)

I am just posting this because it concerns some stuff you may see at the livingforce xanga site.

I made my own page just to document ALL the exchanges I had with him/her/it.

I do not represent anyone else, especially not anyone here with my words and actions.

I am fine with it, and I understand that many would find it deplorable.

I urge everyone to not feel obligated to even visit the site I made at xanga over this, and warn that it is filled with foul language and very offensive terminology.
On the same note, I did want to make the info available in light of what livingforce just posted.
I prefer all the cards to be on the table.

To find my page, you just need to know my username, which is ramayomama.

it is at xanga.com/(my user name)

or from the main page just search ramayomama under PROFILES.
for some reason that is the only way it came up.

I did not want to leave a straight link because it need not be attached to this site which is very respectable, very usefull and very straight forward.

All of you keep on, you all do very well.

In my personal and vocational life I have had the opportunity to meet many ultra-religious and orthodox people of several religions. Some live peaceful lives bothering no one, while others in their zeal seek to destroy everyone that have different views with destructive and prejudicial teachings to physical violence. What differentiates a cult from a healthy religion (if such a thing can exist) is not the age of the religion, the origins, nor the teachers and teachings, but rather the mercurial impulse to meld and create an undifferentiated unity and conformity for the purpose of exploitation. It is not a unity of freedom of expression or free will bound under the umbrella of ‘Do not do to others what you would not want done to yourself’, but a unity of absolute control by a few over the many. A cult can never honor G0d-given intellect, freedom of choice, dissent, nor individual spiritual achievement or insights.

With a few changes of terms and names the SOI CHILD could be from any cult or religion. She is defending her faith from her perspective. She has had a life with values and joys. She has been conditioned by years of positive reinforcement to parrot her parent’s philosophy. She has also been taught to fear things that would contradict her upbringing. Every myth and lie she has been told is being clearly laid out in her blog for all to see. Anyone who wants to really know how the children in SOI are being raised in this cult should take note here. [www.xanga.com]

Her world would absolutely fall apart if she would allow herself the possibility that we might be telling the truth about Chris Butler. Her complete identity would be devastated. She would lose her family and community connections. This is more than a person can handle. Most will live in illusion than risk that. The more she and her ideas are attacked, the more tenaciously she will hold on to her beliefs.

If you study many religions and spiritual paths throughout history, you will also see other common denominators. These Universal Principles are used and twisted by every cult and narcissistic cult leader. How can you criticize wanting to live a peaceful life without harming others as LF is expressing? But when you are raised without any critical thinking tools or to shut down your innate ‘bullshit meters’, it becomes very difficult to ever perceive the truth.

A true story from one of Sigmund Freud’s case histories:
A young lady was brought to him because she became blind after the death of her father. There was no physiological reason. It was termed ‘Hysterical Blindness’ in those days. Upon being interviewed, she described how some Doctors came to her door one night and brought her to the hospital where her father was a physician. He had collapsed and died from a heart attack. This was her recollection of the event. The fact of the matter was that it was not Doctors who had come to her door that night, but policeman. They drove her to a whore house where her father had died and needed her to identify his body. This was too much for this respectable and puritanical young woman. It was an extremely difficult reality to face, but she eventually regained her eyesight.

I wouldn’t write off this SOI child completely. Even though she is misguided, never underestimate the power of the mind and the soul. I do not belong to the camp that believes that brainwashing is permanent. I have seen the most severe behaviors change in apparently hopeless cases of children with severe disorders due to abuse and neglect. LF has some of the fighting Aussie spirit I have come to enjoy that flies off the handle like a boomerang! She also has the qualities of loyalty and idealism. Give her that at least. And give her TIME. Let the story that Cara and Ash are researching unfold. I would hope that one day she and other SOI children would do the research, check the facts, not blindly follow, and investigate the religion of their parents

A few questions to ask ‘Living Force’ [www.xanga.com]
and all SOI CHILDREN:

1- Why can there only be one Pure Devotee at a time?
2- Why doesn’t Chris Butler make more pure devotees?
3- If pure devotees never fall down, how is it that one year Katyayani and Sudama were
pure devotees and the next they were not?
4- Why does Chris Butler hide his teachings and himself?
5- How do you know what you have been taught is true?
6- Why do you believe what you believe?
7- What is a spiritual experience?
8- What would happen if you found out that what I am saying is true?
9- Why do you think the teachings of Chris Butler are so fragile that you can not allow
your self to look at other ideas, even within your spiritual tradition?
10- Have you ever even met Chris Butler?
11- How can you be so sure Chris Butler and Wai Lana are telling you the truth?
12- You say you are not qualified to teach spiritual life, yet your blog is all about preaching. How do you justify this contradiction?
13- How do you judge what is true or not?
14- How do you know the ‘Lord in the Heart’ is not just a sentimental ‘feeling’ with no basis in spiritual understanding?
15- Can you imagine the possibility that the reason you have been discouraged from getting a good education is so you will not find the truth out and are more easily manipulated?
16- Not only are you deprived a good secular education so you can learn to navigate the world, but you are also deprived of a full Vaishnava education that does not condone the eating of toe nails and many other deviations that Chris Butler teaches. How can you justify that?
17- How do you know that Chris Butler is ‘conversant in all aspects of spiritual understanding’ if you are not allowed to study anything outside of his prescribed teachings?
18- How do you know that Chris Butler ‘is a seasoned voyager and knower of the entire spiritual realm’? What does that even mean?
19- Did he not name himself Jagad Guru?
20- Do you know what the word ‘narcissism’ is?
21- Do you know what the word ‘paranoia’ means?
22- Do you know what a ‘delusion’ is?
23- How do you know the difference between a truth and a lie?
24- Why is the only biography of Chris Butler so brief and makes many unsubstantiated claims?
25- Can you understand how easy it would be for someone like Chris Butler to hide things that you would find objectionable from you and your family?
26- Why don’t you take the time and energy to test your guru out? Is G0d so unmerciful as to not allow sincere inquiry and the testing of the truth?
27- Do your parents even know about your blog?
28- If Chris Butler teaches the ‘absolute truth’, why have his teachings changed so many times over the years?
29- Do you know what a 'confidence man' is?