Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: February 17, 2007 12:51PM
Most of what is going on goes on off the board. That link I posted a little while ago [xeniux.blogdrive.com] has gone off - real bs overload - and there are a lot of impersonators there. Some were presenting themselves demanding debate and communication with me, Rama and Zelig by name.
I made two posts that have my name on them, the second one said that I will not post there again because there is no unique sign in. From that point then there were a few Cara's popping up. A little slow there guys :roll:
There was a lot of noise being made about engaging in debate and not being able to post there. Someone has actually started up a forum now
that is claiming to have both sides although it looks to be owned by devotees. I was personally invited to join it.
[scienceofidentity.myfastforum.org]
As we all know I do not care I am kamikaze but I would like to let anyone here know who has been a vocal critic who would like to wade in to be aware of the possibility of being traced. I do not think that it is easy to do but it is completely avoidable.
[www.whatismyipaddress.com]
In most cases all that can be easily determined is who the person's ISP is and possibly the state and city the reside in.
ISP = Internet Service Provider the company
[www.whatismyipaddress.com]
I can look up cities and countries of ppl that contact me, that is done on completewhois.com Of course if you go to a cafe or a friends computer or follow the second link for ISP blocking etc. then there is no way to know who is who. I would post for you just copy and paste whatever you like under your handle if you like, no problem. I could care less if they know anything about me.
I trust this guy he is one of the biggest critics of Scientology. They Hate him. If you google his name you get hate sites.
[b:10c4a26b4f]How to email and post anonymously[/color:10c4a26b4f][/b:10c4a26b4f]
[www.xenu.net]
I made two posts that have my name on them, the second one said that I will not post there again because there is no unique sign in. From that point then there were a few Cara's popping up. A little slow there guys :roll:
There was a lot of noise being made about engaging in debate and not being able to post there. Someone has actually started up a forum now
that is claiming to have both sides although it looks to be owned by devotees. I was personally invited to join it.
[scienceofidentity.myfastforum.org]
As we all know I do not care I am kamikaze but I would like to let anyone here know who has been a vocal critic who would like to wade in to be aware of the possibility of being traced. I do not think that it is easy to do but it is completely avoidable.
[www.whatismyipaddress.com]
In most cases all that can be easily determined is who the person's ISP is and possibly the state and city the reside in.
ISP = Internet Service Provider the company
[www.whatismyipaddress.com]
I can look up cities and countries of ppl that contact me, that is done on completewhois.com Of course if you go to a cafe or a friends computer or follow the second link for ISP blocking etc. then there is no way to know who is who. I would post for you just copy and paste whatever you like under your handle if you like, no problem. I could care less if they know anything about me.
I trust this guy he is one of the biggest critics of Scientology. They Hate him. If you google his name you get hate sites.
[b:10c4a26b4f]How to email and post anonymously[/color:10c4a26b4f][/b:10c4a26b4f]
[www.xenu.net]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
emntk
()
Date: February 17, 2007 01:09PM
Zelig, you're acting as an authority on SOI is a little doubtful. You were there a whole 20 years and you finally figured there is enough evidence that it's damaging - strong word too. How bout illegal activities? In all that time you saw not a single law being broken? That is the truth?
JG was in Australia for an entire year with a number of international visitors, when I joined, just a few short years after you left and even with my limited student experience I noticed a culture of disregard for the law just like many other cults. Also I pointed out a few examples in my previous post.
Back in '73, as your version goes, even when a few householders, some being Bhaktivendanta disciples, were living so simply and following ACB to the T, Siddha-svarupa had just illegally sold ACB's temple in Hawaii. Also 13 months later ACB was in Hawaii questioning Siddha on why he and his followers weren't following his requests for disciples and why Siddha's followers didn't want to offer him their respects or visit him and why they prefered to offer garlands to Siddha rather than the diety of ACB (Then again two years later the same thing happened). So that was a rather short period where the desire to follow to a T was lost wouldn't you think? Also since Siddha had no stores or possesions at that time he still managed to offer ACB $10 000 (which is a lot of money to just give away) on his visit to pacify him that he was an obedient disciple. He did seem to have a constant flow of money to offer ACB thousands of dollars on his visits. The only example you gave of following ACB was having deities in a shed and not eating sugar and that was not even a requirement as ACB himself ate sugar and he desired nice temples. Your authoritative personal story does not make sense.
Cara and I go to an awful lot of trouble to provide information that has been thoroughly researched so your claim of being a friend while you are attempting to discredit us is very unbelievable.
Try not to be too concerned about litigation and warn us about violence as SOI doesn't know where I am and as Dharam says they also know little about me. SOI will expose themselves through taking any legal action or otherwise so you know that would be an unlikely choice for them to make. You don't like accusing people of things you have no evidence for but you think that SOI certain members of SOI have a potential for violence. Is that a fact you have evidence of or an accusation?
The drugs is a theory and we have had tip offs of involvement in different countries and we are developing a number of leads on that issue. We have reason to believe that it is a highly worthwhile line of investigation and will let people know more about it as we learn more. When Cara mentioned the Iskcon connection as a theory you actually stated that it was appropriate.
We don't lay all our cards on the table as few others do on this forum. It is easy to say what we should have done but it's highly irrelevant now. The light has been turned on so what can we do about that? Exposing of SOI is more important than keeping all the information to ourselves for personal gain such as writing a book. So I think we have chosen the best path and there is still much information that is available that the roaches cannot hide.
I have spoken to you very respectfully in public and private correspondence and your personal provocation directly and indirectly in your post is suggestive that you have an unknown issue with me. I was curious about your behavior on this thread for a while now and a number of dubious characters on this thread have also seemed to criticise Siddha whilst defending him so that is no proof that you are not minimising the situation. But the only other conclusion that I can come up with on your desire to minimise the cults corruption is that you wouldn't want anyone to believe you were so foolish to be led by a complete con-artist and it suits your supposedly high standards to suggest that the cult was more pure than it really was. Most people on this forum are open enough to state that they were stupid to be led into their respective cults and don't try to change words like destructive to damaging as a personal saving face. You're anonymous though right? There is no face to save. So it is very confusing.
I don't think that naming people in the cult is unethical. We need to make as much information available as possible which hopefully may bring others forward. Are you concerned that your name will become available on the net zelig? We don't name children and most honest organisations have lists of responsible adult members. Putting a list out there is a great way of getting people who are not interested in being associated with an organisation such as this to want to leave. We are not uncompassionate people who may have their children used against them and anybody can contact us about this. Most of the names used on the names list were publically available on the net from sources such as newspapers, advertisements and websites. If people wish to have their names taken down they can come to Cara and tell her their predicament and she would consider removing their names from the list when it get's put up. Otherwise people can take the personal responsibility of publically stating that they have no connection to SOI. Cara and I cannot be held responsible for the actions and decisions of any members of the Science of Identity.
People can try to discredit Cara all they like. It is much easier to attack a person's character than to address what they are saying. It's just more evidence that those behind it are liars basically.
JG was in Australia for an entire year with a number of international visitors, when I joined, just a few short years after you left and even with my limited student experience I noticed a culture of disregard for the law just like many other cults. Also I pointed out a few examples in my previous post.
Back in '73, as your version goes, even when a few householders, some being Bhaktivendanta disciples, were living so simply and following ACB to the T, Siddha-svarupa had just illegally sold ACB's temple in Hawaii. Also 13 months later ACB was in Hawaii questioning Siddha on why he and his followers weren't following his requests for disciples and why Siddha's followers didn't want to offer him their respects or visit him and why they prefered to offer garlands to Siddha rather than the diety of ACB (Then again two years later the same thing happened). So that was a rather short period where the desire to follow to a T was lost wouldn't you think? Also since Siddha had no stores or possesions at that time he still managed to offer ACB $10 000 (which is a lot of money to just give away) on his visit to pacify him that he was an obedient disciple. He did seem to have a constant flow of money to offer ACB thousands of dollars on his visits. The only example you gave of following ACB was having deities in a shed and not eating sugar and that was not even a requirement as ACB himself ate sugar and he desired nice temples. Your authoritative personal story does not make sense.
Cara and I go to an awful lot of trouble to provide information that has been thoroughly researched so your claim of being a friend while you are attempting to discredit us is very unbelievable.
Try not to be too concerned about litigation and warn us about violence as SOI doesn't know where I am and as Dharam says they also know little about me. SOI will expose themselves through taking any legal action or otherwise so you know that would be an unlikely choice for them to make. You don't like accusing people of things you have no evidence for but you think that SOI certain members of SOI have a potential for violence. Is that a fact you have evidence of or an accusation?
The drugs is a theory and we have had tip offs of involvement in different countries and we are developing a number of leads on that issue. We have reason to believe that it is a highly worthwhile line of investigation and will let people know more about it as we learn more. When Cara mentioned the Iskcon connection as a theory you actually stated that it was appropriate.
We don't lay all our cards on the table as few others do on this forum. It is easy to say what we should have done but it's highly irrelevant now. The light has been turned on so what can we do about that? Exposing of SOI is more important than keeping all the information to ourselves for personal gain such as writing a book. So I think we have chosen the best path and there is still much information that is available that the roaches cannot hide.
I have spoken to you very respectfully in public and private correspondence and your personal provocation directly and indirectly in your post is suggestive that you have an unknown issue with me. I was curious about your behavior on this thread for a while now and a number of dubious characters on this thread have also seemed to criticise Siddha whilst defending him so that is no proof that you are not minimising the situation. But the only other conclusion that I can come up with on your desire to minimise the cults corruption is that you wouldn't want anyone to believe you were so foolish to be led by a complete con-artist and it suits your supposedly high standards to suggest that the cult was more pure than it really was. Most people on this forum are open enough to state that they were stupid to be led into their respective cults and don't try to change words like destructive to damaging as a personal saving face. You're anonymous though right? There is no face to save. So it is very confusing.
I don't think that naming people in the cult is unethical. We need to make as much information available as possible which hopefully may bring others forward. Are you concerned that your name will become available on the net zelig? We don't name children and most honest organisations have lists of responsible adult members. Putting a list out there is a great way of getting people who are not interested in being associated with an organisation such as this to want to leave. We are not uncompassionate people who may have their children used against them and anybody can contact us about this. Most of the names used on the names list were publically available on the net from sources such as newspapers, advertisements and websites. If people wish to have their names taken down they can come to Cara and tell her their predicament and she would consider removing their names from the list when it get's put up. Otherwise people can take the personal responsibility of publically stating that they have no connection to SOI. Cara and I cannot be held responsible for the actions and decisions of any members of the Science of Identity.
People can try to discredit Cara all they like. It is much easier to attack a person's character than to address what they are saying. It's just more evidence that those behind it are liars basically.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: February 17, 2007 01:10PM
This site is more often on-line than not [xeniux.blogdrive.com]
There are real devotees there they have emailed me.
As for advertising everything I do not everything. Yes they know where I am. They have tried very hard to get to me too. I was recently approached by someone who was fool enough to send me text messages after the fact saying that he was acting on behalf of the "Haribols" (I don't know about in other places, but that is recognisable slang for them here and they hate it) He specifically named Nirmal das and Brendon. So there you go. I have the messages and the police reports. I am ok and still not scared.
I welcome litigation - get this stuff out in the open. Anyone who denies their guru or does not want to be associated with him is a personal and spiritual coward.
Under the law it is only defamation if it is not true. Bring it on Chris, everything I say unless I state that it is speculation is true.
Everyone has their own choices and I respect that but someone has to put their foot down on this cult and eventhough I only have a little foot I have made my choice.
Zelig you have been a friend to me that is true. We do not agree on most things regarding SOI though. I think that I have been flamed a lot more and had my credibility attacked here and elsewhere a lot more. It happens on most internet forums by my experience.
If anyone could see the contents of my inbox (which they won't due to confidentiality promised and kept) you would see the constant barrage I have had from devotees of various gurukulis (most of them admittedly ex-Siddha followers who it is apparent maintain some attatchment to him) Just part of my job.
What you have told me Z referring to the "and more" you mentioned and there is some hot stuff there for sure multiply it by 50. Rama said to me once that he figured that this was a cause worth dying for and while I doubt it would come to that I agree. I have said that before. That really is the worst that can happen. Suing someone who owns nothing is certainly no threat. Check out the book McLibel for some real heroes. Secrets are what protects cults.
The so called innocent people run kirtans at their homes and trade advice on some heavy stuff I have been there. Sure they look innocent, but I know they are far from it. You wouldn't want to know that cops are members of this cult and act on their behalf? That is far more immoral and dangerous than what I do in my opinion, it can certainly hurt a lot of people.
Science of Identity is Tomorrow's Waco Today make no mistake about this. It is not just an idle game.
There are real devotees there they have emailed me.
As for advertising everything I do not everything. Yes they know where I am. They have tried very hard to get to me too. I was recently approached by someone who was fool enough to send me text messages after the fact saying that he was acting on behalf of the "Haribols" (I don't know about in other places, but that is recognisable slang for them here and they hate it) He specifically named Nirmal das and Brendon. So there you go. I have the messages and the police reports. I am ok and still not scared.
I welcome litigation - get this stuff out in the open. Anyone who denies their guru or does not want to be associated with him is a personal and spiritual coward.
Under the law it is only defamation if it is not true. Bring it on Chris, everything I say unless I state that it is speculation is true.
Everyone has their own choices and I respect that but someone has to put their foot down on this cult and eventhough I only have a little foot I have made my choice.
Zelig you have been a friend to me that is true. We do not agree on most things regarding SOI though. I think that I have been flamed a lot more and had my credibility attacked here and elsewhere a lot more. It happens on most internet forums by my experience.
If anyone could see the contents of my inbox (which they won't due to confidentiality promised and kept) you would see the constant barrage I have had from devotees of various gurukulis (most of them admittedly ex-Siddha followers who it is apparent maintain some attatchment to him) Just part of my job.
What you have told me Z referring to the "and more" you mentioned and there is some hot stuff there for sure multiply it by 50. Rama said to me once that he figured that this was a cause worth dying for and while I doubt it would come to that I agree. I have said that before. That really is the worst that can happen. Suing someone who owns nothing is certainly no threat. Check out the book McLibel for some real heroes. Secrets are what protects cults.
The so called innocent people run kirtans at their homes and trade advice on some heavy stuff I have been there. Sure they look innocent, but I know they are far from it. You wouldn't want to know that cops are members of this cult and act on their behalf? That is far more immoral and dangerous than what I do in my opinion, it can certainly hurt a lot of people.
Science of Identity is Tomorrow's Waco Today make no mistake about this. It is not just an idle game.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: February 17, 2007 11:04PM
Evidently SOI are interested in what is said - very interested. Something must be bothering them.
For all of them out there then...
No I do not write the living force blog - duh! you all had my isp banned and whoever it is can hardly spell. Based on what she said to Rama which is on his xanga site my leading bet is that it is Sita Doyle who fancies herself a writer. Haven't you noticed if I have something to say that I don't mind saying it?
No I do not post on xeniux because as I said the two times I did post there there is no unique sign in. I will [b:a56c12370a][u:a56c12370a]never[/u:a56c12370a][/b:a56c12370a] post a comment there.
Yes I do worship Narasingha but I do not call Him "my lion" if you have issue with Narasingha please address it to Him. No I am not an atheist and I am gurukuli non-affiliated.
Yes I am a member of the new devotee owned forum and Yes I will post there if I am asked any questions.
No I do not accept that disagreement with Zelig or anyone else damages mine or anyone else's credibility.
Yes I answer all emails, even the abusive ones.
Yes I am Attahasa on Krishna Friends. [krishnafriends.com]
Yes I think Rama is fantastic and he makes me laugh.
Yes I am in Tweed Heads and No I am not hiding.
Yes I came here initially as a last resort and yes I was very hurt by being kicked out of SOI when you criticise me remember that was not my decision. I wanted to be a student of Siddha but the Doyle family put a stop to that for their own reasons.
Yes as Zelig said to me if I was still with Brendon then I would most likely still be there, that is true.
Yes I would like to be wrong about a lot of things, but the lack of response and the games and stand over tactics devotees engage in have ensured that any hope of this has steadily eroded.
Yes I will talk to SOI or ASM. Brendon is the only one I trust not to be violent though so take it or leave it. The way he has acted you hardly have that card to play anymore. You've got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run... :wink:
I am more open to communication than Siddha followers are - so in your criticism you are only revealing your own lack of credibility. Who do you want to bet people are going to listen to? The person with the paperwork and the details that not only invites but answers questions or the so-called devotees that say who? what? we just practice meditation (eventhough there are pictures of Siddha and his name on everything) or scream at them for being offensive?
How about I start talking to gay people and getting them to go to the centres? You want to deny that you're homophobic - cool, I can arrange that.
How about I start teaching classes - there is no organisation to join remember - so I could still be a student right? I've got some lectures, I've read the books. Of course one is the nothing matters one but you don't mind right? Siddha is sooo perfect there is no need to censor his perfect words is there? People are right into the hippie lifestyle around here, I am sure they would love the opportunity.
Of course you wouldn't mind people coming out to the farm on Sunday would you? More the merrier right, more souls for Krishna.
You've been in your own world so long you are seriously out of touch with reality. Keep pissing me off and see how far it gets you. Wow you had a blog deleted, whoopee. Took you a month to do it though. If it didn't get to you you wouldn't have even bothered.
No one here cares about your petty little insults. You are all turning on each other too scared to even post on a forum. Reminds me of the first ever lecture I heard when Siddha was mocking people post Sept 11 "You're can't even open a letter" talking about anthrax and how lack of faith in Krishna causes one to live in fear.
Love to everyone (no names, but you know who you are) I would love to meet you when I get to America Rick - you do great work.
For all of them out there then...
No I do not write the living force blog - duh! you all had my isp banned and whoever it is can hardly spell. Based on what she said to Rama which is on his xanga site my leading bet is that it is Sita Doyle who fancies herself a writer. Haven't you noticed if I have something to say that I don't mind saying it?
No I do not post on xeniux because as I said the two times I did post there there is no unique sign in. I will [b:a56c12370a][u:a56c12370a]never[/u:a56c12370a][/b:a56c12370a] post a comment there.
Yes I do worship Narasingha but I do not call Him "my lion" if you have issue with Narasingha please address it to Him. No I am not an atheist and I am gurukuli non-affiliated.
Yes I am a member of the new devotee owned forum and Yes I will post there if I am asked any questions.
No I do not accept that disagreement with Zelig or anyone else damages mine or anyone else's credibility.
Yes I answer all emails, even the abusive ones.
Yes I am Attahasa on Krishna Friends. [krishnafriends.com]
Yes I think Rama is fantastic and he makes me laugh.
Yes I am in Tweed Heads and No I am not hiding.
Yes I came here initially as a last resort and yes I was very hurt by being kicked out of SOI when you criticise me remember that was not my decision. I wanted to be a student of Siddha but the Doyle family put a stop to that for their own reasons.
Yes as Zelig said to me if I was still with Brendon then I would most likely still be there, that is true.
Yes I would like to be wrong about a lot of things, but the lack of response and the games and stand over tactics devotees engage in have ensured that any hope of this has steadily eroded.
Yes I will talk to SOI or ASM. Brendon is the only one I trust not to be violent though so take it or leave it. The way he has acted you hardly have that card to play anymore. You've got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run... :wink:
I am more open to communication than Siddha followers are - so in your criticism you are only revealing your own lack of credibility. Who do you want to bet people are going to listen to? The person with the paperwork and the details that not only invites but answers questions or the so-called devotees that say who? what? we just practice meditation (eventhough there are pictures of Siddha and his name on everything) or scream at them for being offensive?
How about I start talking to gay people and getting them to go to the centres? You want to deny that you're homophobic - cool, I can arrange that.
How about I start teaching classes - there is no organisation to join remember - so I could still be a student right? I've got some lectures, I've read the books. Of course one is the nothing matters one but you don't mind right? Siddha is sooo perfect there is no need to censor his perfect words is there? People are right into the hippie lifestyle around here, I am sure they would love the opportunity.
Of course you wouldn't mind people coming out to the farm on Sunday would you? More the merrier right, more souls for Krishna.
You've been in your own world so long you are seriously out of touch with reality. Keep pissing me off and see how far it gets you. Wow you had a blog deleted, whoopee. Took you a month to do it though. If it didn't get to you you wouldn't have even bothered.
No one here cares about your petty little insults. You are all turning on each other too scared to even post on a forum. Reminds me of the first ever lecture I heard when Siddha was mocking people post Sept 11 "You're can't even open a letter" talking about anthrax and how lack of faith in Krishna causes one to live in fear.
Love to everyone (no names, but you know who you are) I would love to meet you when I get to America Rick - you do great work.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
emntk
()
Date: February 18, 2007 03:41AM
In 1993 leader of the Branch Davidians David Koresh under suspicion of various crimes - including child molestation - refused to be arrested on a warrant for posession of weapons leading to a 51 day standoff during which followers barricaded themselves in the Waco compound and Koresh surrounded himself with children during the negotiations.
On April 19 the seige ended with 76 people, including 21 children and Koresh dead.
Few even attempted to flee the burning building.
One woman who did, only to be prevented from running straight back in, refused to tell where the children were so that they might be saved.
They all stayed by Koresh - the man who claimed to be God - until the very end.
On April 19 the seige ended with 76 people, including 21 children and Koresh dead.
Few even attempted to flee the burning building.
One woman who did, only to be prevented from running straight back in, refused to tell where the children were so that they might be saved.
They all stayed by Koresh - the man who claimed to be God - until the very end.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: February 18, 2007 04:59AM
Yes, I remember the Koresh episode very well - it was broadcast live on television, I think... I never could figure out how people could follow a person like that... Some older parents offered their very young daughters to Koresh to become "brides of Christ" (They believed Koresh was Jesus come back). There was a very good movie about the whole episode (I forget the name of the movie). The movie showed how Koresh was very mean to children - he locked one child in a dark cupboard for a long period. The child was severely traumatized.
There are some parallels with Chris Butler and his group, however I do NOT think that the devotees would shoot themselves and burn the children like what happened at Waco. (I think most of them had shot themselves before they burned the place down)
:?: :evil:
There are some parallels with Chris Butler and his group, however I do NOT think that the devotees would shoot themselves and burn the children like what happened at Waco. (I think most of them had shot themselves before they burned the place down)
:?: :evil:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
emntk
()
Date: February 18, 2007 02:15PM
You believe that specifically there would be no shooting or burning of children and adults.
The members of Science of Identity belong to a doomsday cult who are taught to think instinctively that Chris Butler (an increasingly reclusive, paranoid, fanatical, tempremental, peurile, narcisistic and aging cult leader) is in direct communication with God and that his every word is the will of God. The Ninjai style warrior for Krishna devotees that Jagad Guru is pushing - where it is taught that violence in the name of following the will of Krishna is perfectly justified - (where many of the devotees are learning martial arts and Tulsi Gabbard going to war is glorified, along with his order for his disciple to keep his gun in his bead bag) - and Siddhaswarupa's requests that his followers amass weapons, which I saw an example of 8 years ago, along with the hatred and propaganda that he spreads publically and privately against people in the general community, particularly but not exclusively to homosexuals, means that we do not really know what they are capable of.
Even Bhaktivedanta had labelled all westerners 'crows eating stool' due to having multiple sex partners - so how much respect can people in this line of thinking have for the common person or their values and laws?
In SOI too it is taught that by mere association with imperfect, materialist demons (i.e. non SOI members) you can be influenced away from the path of devotion. So it is best to avoid this association. He criticises all other religious groups too despite the fact that mormons had paid $600 000 to Mike Gabbard's Save Traditional Marriages (STM) group Chris Butler goes around criticising Mormons. So the only person on the entire planet that knows the 'absolute truth' is Chris Butler.
Butler equates sending your children to a public shcool with murder as it will influence them into material life.
Watching a movie is the same as being brain f*****.
Your family is not really your family but just random souls you have come into contact with in this life.
All relationships such as family and friendships are based on a bodily and mental conception and therefore based on false ego.
Love is an illusion.
Illicit sex is compared to beastiality.
Santa Claus is taught to children to be Satan. Infact your own reflection in the mirror is satan.
Coca-Cola executives whilst not expecting people to eat their toenails are considered to be brainwashing people with their billboards even though I have never liked Coke. Coke will rot your stomach as an example. I'm not about to suggest that Coke is good for you but it certainly will not kill you.
People are taught to be highly germphobic and chemical-phobic. Aids can be caught off anything you touch. A babies cough and possible disease is irrelevant.
Any psychological issues a person may have should not be addressed through any other means than chanting Hare Krishna. All life's problems can be solved through chanting.
Any interests you have that do not include krishna and guru are taking you away from the path of devotion.
Any activities not approved by guru are not to be undertaken. One should not question the guru even if he is wrong.
Aids patients should be sent to concerntration camps. Death is something that is waiting at any moment.
Stealing is justifiable in the service of Krishna. Lying is justifiable in the service of Krishna. Killing in the service of Krishna is justified if it is his will.
They don't want homosexuals to be openly homosexual. By making homosexuality as illegal as possible i.e.Gabbard wants it so they cannot provide homosexual awareness through his stop promoting homosexuality international, he is against anti-discrimination of homosexuals and same-sex domestic partnership. If it is possible Gabbard will make it illegal for same-sex couples to hold hands in public. Anyone who murders should be murdered and homosexuals are considered to be killing people. He thinks that the government should be run by religious organisations as was the purpose of Independents for Godly Goverment.
Everything is taken to the very extremes with this highly fanatical group.
When I was there any media (tv, radio or newspapers) was to be avoided people were not supposed to use the internet. The internet is a public space and if Butler wants to claim that the internet is an outlet for criticism and that people will always be able to find fault in even the pure devotee which inturn causes blasphemy then he is highly paraniod. If it were true that he was a pure devotee then those faults would of course be minimal. People do attempt to defame and discredit others fraudulently but commonly those situations are shown to be lies. So this fanatical secrecy of SOI on the basis of avioding blasphemy is a lie in the guise of being self-righteously above the common man.
Their underhanded politics and the amount of lies they tell and attempts to defame others hiding their religious connections in business and going as far to sell prashadam secretively and using bullying tactics of other businesses in secret and then this golden earth site which is completely strange shows this idea to be hypocritical. Fraudulently using a non-profit status. Bullying other SOI members with and threats of stealing their children - no of course they do not want their faults being found out. So they go about sneakily in business, politics and religious practices claiming that to be saintly people.
This is the type of philosophy that Cara was confronted within the first six months of associating with it's members, particularly Brendon, who is largely brainwashed into thinking that these ideas are the only logic one should accept. I had the same perception given to me over a number of years. When asked outright if Brendon would die for Chris Butler - if he would kill his own son if Chris Butler said so he made NO denial. My brother can hardly speak anymore - he has all the classic symptoms of thought blocking of having been brainwashed. Months ago, before there was any forum or any blog he said to Cara that she was right about a lot of things, but that one cannot have a spiritual life without a spiritual master. There is no question in his mind that one MUST abide by Chris Butler or be nothing at all. He knows nothing of other spiritual teachings or spiritual masters except what he has heard from Chris Butler which is that none of them are true or valid and can only lead to damnation.
Butler is an extremist and this is one of the things that is destructive to people having to live such an extreme lifestyle and believe such extreme doctrines.
23 people in Waco were shot and (who shot them or started the fires is not completely known) the other 54 were burned alive clinging to their faith. I don't think that we should dull down the philosophy we are dealing with and the Waco situation is an example of what overzealous fanaticism can lead to. From what I have heard and seen do I think that they are walking an extremely fine line becoming a waco style cult if not already. Butler has stated that it is ok or those who are attached to the guru to commit suicide when he dies so that they may follow him People do need to be aware of what can happen.
The members of Science of Identity belong to a doomsday cult who are taught to think instinctively that Chris Butler (an increasingly reclusive, paranoid, fanatical, tempremental, peurile, narcisistic and aging cult leader) is in direct communication with God and that his every word is the will of God. The Ninjai style warrior for Krishna devotees that Jagad Guru is pushing - where it is taught that violence in the name of following the will of Krishna is perfectly justified - (where many of the devotees are learning martial arts and Tulsi Gabbard going to war is glorified, along with his order for his disciple to keep his gun in his bead bag) - and Siddhaswarupa's requests that his followers amass weapons, which I saw an example of 8 years ago, along with the hatred and propaganda that he spreads publically and privately against people in the general community, particularly but not exclusively to homosexuals, means that we do not really know what they are capable of.
Even Bhaktivedanta had labelled all westerners 'crows eating stool' due to having multiple sex partners - so how much respect can people in this line of thinking have for the common person or their values and laws?
In SOI too it is taught that by mere association with imperfect, materialist demons (i.e. non SOI members) you can be influenced away from the path of devotion. So it is best to avoid this association. He criticises all other religious groups too despite the fact that mormons had paid $600 000 to Mike Gabbard's Save Traditional Marriages (STM) group Chris Butler goes around criticising Mormons. So the only person on the entire planet that knows the 'absolute truth' is Chris Butler.
Butler equates sending your children to a public shcool with murder as it will influence them into material life.
Watching a movie is the same as being brain f*****.
Your family is not really your family but just random souls you have come into contact with in this life.
All relationships such as family and friendships are based on a bodily and mental conception and therefore based on false ego.
Love is an illusion.
Illicit sex is compared to beastiality.
Santa Claus is taught to children to be Satan. Infact your own reflection in the mirror is satan.
Coca-Cola executives whilst not expecting people to eat their toenails are considered to be brainwashing people with their billboards even though I have never liked Coke. Coke will rot your stomach as an example. I'm not about to suggest that Coke is good for you but it certainly will not kill you.
People are taught to be highly germphobic and chemical-phobic. Aids can be caught off anything you touch. A babies cough and possible disease is irrelevant.
Any psychological issues a person may have should not be addressed through any other means than chanting Hare Krishna. All life's problems can be solved through chanting.
Any interests you have that do not include krishna and guru are taking you away from the path of devotion.
Any activities not approved by guru are not to be undertaken. One should not question the guru even if he is wrong.
Aids patients should be sent to concerntration camps. Death is something that is waiting at any moment.
Stealing is justifiable in the service of Krishna. Lying is justifiable in the service of Krishna. Killing in the service of Krishna is justified if it is his will.
They don't want homosexuals to be openly homosexual. By making homosexuality as illegal as possible i.e.Gabbard wants it so they cannot provide homosexual awareness through his stop promoting homosexuality international, he is against anti-discrimination of homosexuals and same-sex domestic partnership. If it is possible Gabbard will make it illegal for same-sex couples to hold hands in public. Anyone who murders should be murdered and homosexuals are considered to be killing people. He thinks that the government should be run by religious organisations as was the purpose of Independents for Godly Goverment.
Everything is taken to the very extremes with this highly fanatical group.
When I was there any media (tv, radio or newspapers) was to be avoided people were not supposed to use the internet. The internet is a public space and if Butler wants to claim that the internet is an outlet for criticism and that people will always be able to find fault in even the pure devotee which inturn causes blasphemy then he is highly paraniod. If it were true that he was a pure devotee then those faults would of course be minimal. People do attempt to defame and discredit others fraudulently but commonly those situations are shown to be lies. So this fanatical secrecy of SOI on the basis of avioding blasphemy is a lie in the guise of being self-righteously above the common man.
Their underhanded politics and the amount of lies they tell and attempts to defame others hiding their religious connections in business and going as far to sell prashadam secretively and using bullying tactics of other businesses in secret and then this golden earth site which is completely strange shows this idea to be hypocritical. Fraudulently using a non-profit status. Bullying other SOI members with and threats of stealing their children - no of course they do not want their faults being found out. So they go about sneakily in business, politics and religious practices claiming that to be saintly people.
This is the type of philosophy that Cara was confronted within the first six months of associating with it's members, particularly Brendon, who is largely brainwashed into thinking that these ideas are the only logic one should accept. I had the same perception given to me over a number of years. When asked outright if Brendon would die for Chris Butler - if he would kill his own son if Chris Butler said so he made NO denial. My brother can hardly speak anymore - he has all the classic symptoms of thought blocking of having been brainwashed. Months ago, before there was any forum or any blog he said to Cara that she was right about a lot of things, but that one cannot have a spiritual life without a spiritual master. There is no question in his mind that one MUST abide by Chris Butler or be nothing at all. He knows nothing of other spiritual teachings or spiritual masters except what he has heard from Chris Butler which is that none of them are true or valid and can only lead to damnation.
Butler is an extremist and this is one of the things that is destructive to people having to live such an extreme lifestyle and believe such extreme doctrines.
23 people in Waco were shot and (who shot them or started the fires is not completely known) the other 54 were burned alive clinging to their faith. I don't think that we should dull down the philosophy we are dealing with and the Waco situation is an example of what overzealous fanaticism can lead to. From what I have heard and seen do I think that they are walking an extremely fine line becoming a waco style cult if not already. Butler has stated that it is ok or those who are attached to the guru to commit suicide when he dies so that they may follow him People do need to be aware of what can happen.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
Rama Das (slave name)
()
Date: February 18, 2007 07:56PM
Kevin Booth, friend and producer to late comedian Bill Hicks, proprieter of domain name "sacredcow.com" (sacred cow productions) which you may remember SOI mention in their letter to vegsource.com, (although sacred cow is not a rock band) has collaborated with fellow Texan and nutjob/researcher (compliment) Alex Jones and they have a collection of videos on Waco.
[www.sacredcow.com]
The Branch Davidians were totally a cult, although they may not have done that to themselves.
[www.sacredcow.com]
The Branch Davidians were totally a cult, although they may not have done that to themselves.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: February 19, 2007 10:15PM
Quote
emntk
23 people in Waco were shot and (who shot them or started the fires is not completely known) the other 54 were burned alive clinging to their faith. I don't think that we should dull down the philosophy we are dealing with and the Waco situation is an example of what overzealous fanaticism can lead to. From what I have heard and seen do I think that they are walking an extremely fine line becoming a waco style cult if not already. Butler has stated that it is ok or those who are attached to the guru to commit suicide when he dies so that they may follow him People do need to be aware of what can happen.
Certainly when overzealous fanatics are stockpiling weapons, it could turn into a dangerous situation.
Do we have it on tape when Butler is asking his followers to commit suicide when he dies so that they may follow him? I'm sure this is not on any of the public lectures and probably on the "in-house" recordings that they are guarding the public from listening to. THIS SHOULD BE A HUGE RED FLAG FLYING HERE! [/color:69b32cffa0]
There is a tradition in Hindu society for the wife to throw herself in the fire after her husband dies, but there was no indication from ACB that the same thing should be done for a guru. Nor from any of the past acharyas for that matter. This again seems to be a concoction from Chris Butler himself, again making out that he is more important or greater than all the past gurus.
[b:69b32cffa0]WAKE UP PEOPLE! [/b:69b32cffa0] If another Waco type situation is brewing, it seems that Australia is a likely place for this to happen. Drop the fanaticism, folks! If there are three thousand hits on this blog every week, then surely we may be able to make some people understand the seriousness of this situation.
:!:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: February 19, 2007 10:24PM
I watched a movie last night called "EASY PREY." This is based on a true story of a 16-year-old girl who was kidnapped by a psychopathic killer. The police psychologist who was working on the case mentioned the [b:6e495b778b]STOCKHOLM SYNDROME[/b:6e495b778b], where a prisoner becomes like an obedient robot, and even when there is a chance to escape, they do not take it.
[b:6e495b778b]OBEDIENT ROBOTS[/b:6e495b778b] - this certainly could describe the followers who were engaging in Chris Butler's political campaigns. The idea seems to be that they sent in one of their own to pose as a prostitute (and with a hidden microphone) in order to discredit him. Certainly these people were brainwashed into thinking that this instruction was "devotional service" and therefore pleasing to God, because it was coming supposedly from the mouth of a pure devotee.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!~[/color:6e495b778b]
:?
[b:6e495b778b]OBEDIENT ROBOTS[/b:6e495b778b] - this certainly could describe the followers who were engaging in Chris Butler's political campaigns. The idea seems to be that they sent in one of their own to pose as a prostitute (and with a hidden microphone) in order to discredit him. Certainly these people were brainwashed into thinking that this instruction was "devotional service" and therefore pleasing to God, because it was coming supposedly from the mouth of a pure devotee.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!~[/color:6e495b778b]
:?
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