[forum.culteducation.com]

No citations at all, other than your quotes.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> XKRISHNA
>
> I don't.
>
> There are 837 pages of testimony, documents,
> recordings, posts, links, and so on on this forum.
> I suppose you could start from page one to find
> the many citations of Butler's attitude towards
> his followers and closest disciples.

Now, FOREST, I am not trying to give you a hard time by any means. You quote somebody, I ask for a citation. That's the grown-up way. Naturally, I want to know the context in which he said that which you quote. So far, I am able to find no proof that he did. Just sayin'.

Like I said, I don't have a citation. Like I said it's for the reasons mentioned above. Hopefully, for those coming to this forum, the 800 plus Pages here of various testimony, both mine and literally hundreds of others, is enough to convince them to leave this cult.

That is my true and only hope for those who are still in it or who are considering to get into it.

Well, I'll tell you what we can cite, FOREST.

Prabhupada said that one becomes guru by virtue of their qualification, and also on the order of their own guru: "Regular guru, that's all."

BUT, when somebody asked Prabhupada who ordered HIM to be a guru, Prabhupada basically replies, "Don't you worry about that."

So it begs the question: who specifically ordered Chris Butler to be anybody's guru, after Butler joined ISKCON in 1970? Not Prabhupada. Ostensibly, all o of his disciples became Prabhupada's disciples. So how can Butler claim to be a legitimate guru, coming in disciplic succession from Prabhupada?

Brahmananda: "He's asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Krsna consciousness?"
Srila Prabhupada: "When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru-parampara."
Indian man (1): "Did he just..."
Srila Prabhupada: "Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he's ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru." [...]
Indian man (1): "When did he tell you to...?"
Srila Prabhupada: "What is the business, when did he tell me? And why shall I disclose to you? It is so very insignificant thing that I have to explain to you?"
Indian man (1): "No, I am just curious to know when."
Srila Prabhupada: "You should be curious within your limit. You should know that one can become guru when he is ordered by his guru. This much."
(Conversation, 28/10/75)

[vanisource.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2023 04:18AM by XKRISHNA.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said, I don't have a citation. Like I said
> it's for the reasons mentioned above.

Well, again: I am not trying to give you a hard time by any means, but it's accepted by professionals and grownups that if it cannot be cited, then it's not factual.

Dude, I am a serious researcher. Proper citation is everything.

Not even searching Google or Metacrawler attributes to Chris Butler the quote "my disciples are all idiots." See for yourself. It's not there; it's nowhere on the internet. At least, not in the United States it's not.

[www.metacrawler.com]

[www.google.com]


If you're going to quote somebody, then anybody with half a brain will ask for a citation. If it cannot be cited, then it pretty much is not, you know, a real quote. Just sayin'.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2023 05:51AM by XKRISHNA.

PS: I am on your side, FOREST. Please do not misunderstand my intentions in being here.

I hear ya. and so here it is:


"All of my disciples are idiots and making me sick!!!"

—Parama Vaishnava His Divine Disgrace Jagad Guru Siddhswarupananda Paramahamsa Srila Prabhupada (AKA Chris Burler the Great)

(jagardguruchrisbutlercansuckmyballs.com)

Now it exists. And trust me. It happened. There is tons of shit that is not documents in this world. Like Bhaktisiddhanta telling the swami to become a guru and start a western cult where a bunch of people shave their heads and send their kids to cult schools. Not documented that the order was given. Not in a letter, or an audio clip or even a reputable book. Yet, it according tot he swami, it happened. But you don't question the swami. Because whatever you think of him or his cult, he somehow "touched you". There's no arguing with fanaticism and certainly no one can argue or prove mystical experience as so-called proof.

The above vani quote of the swamo sounds like the arrogant, question-avoiding old man I know of. It about sums it up.

What a convenient response for a man who is already being put on an unquestionable pedestal. The fact is no one ever asked swami g to become a guru. The general instruction in most texts is that anyone can become a guru if they have xyz qualifications. That they can take on disciples if they are meeting xyz standards etc. AND, the instructions are so vague and the goal post always moving and if you ask too much or want to know more or verify anything it all fls apart. Yet, I need a citation for butler's infamous dealings with his followers...

The fact is that every other word out of this cults mouth is totally unsubstantiated BS. The claims of it being over 5000 years old, the unbroken lineage from some sungod who pulls the sun around in his chariot. The worship of a radha goddess not mentioned in the Gita and Bhagavatam—two major vaishnava texts. Their excuse? That the narrator of these texts would fall into a transcendental swoon and be unable to complete the texts (written with the broken tusk of elephant man ganesh) if he utetred the newly invented goddesses name. Where is this supposed reason mentioned in any scripture? Nowhere. It was made up. Because Radha was a later erotic addition to Vaishnavite literature.

And even the core bengali texts like Charitamrita barely even mention a full verse with the so-called all-powerful (mentioned in like one questionable purana text with known interpolations) "maha mantra" (there are hundreds of "maha-mantras in all sorts of puranic texts).

And Bhaktivedanta can't even muster up an episode that any of his godbrothers or a letter or anything can verify that he was somehow ordained to "spread krishna toxicness" all over the world, one bald, gullible hippe at a time??? Give me a fucking break.

There are many quotes where Bhaktivedanta appears to be "ordaining" or "ordering" all his followers to become gurus. Many did. With horrid repercussions.

The mark of a good leader and powerful person is that they know how to listen. Bhaktivedanta won't even let the poor guy above get a word in edgewise.

I grew up hearing it all the time (Butler's harsh critiques of his followers/our parents). It made us all petrified we were not pleasing our guru and our parents were displeasing God and we would never go back to God because butler thought his followers were incompetent fools.

This cult has climbed mountains to delete all evidence of their guru's words and misdoings. They even tried suing this forum.

Swami prabhupada, his guru, the epileptic Bengali chaitanya are all deluded frauds. They made up a religious cult based on literally no citations. Just out of thin air. Radha is not mentioned in bhagavad gita, bhagavatam and definitely no pre-puranic texts. The hare krishna mantra mentioned in questionable heavily interpolated texts. Hell even the chaitanya charitamrita barely mentioned it.

Some proof of how Butler thought of his followers as idiots is exemplified in his belief that they could not cook his tinfoiled ass (do you need a citation that he lines his home walls with tinfoil???) a piece of toast without referring to a 10-page kitchen rules list? The few pieces of letters or audio and video that showcase this man's insanity was kept by a handful of petrified excult members who feared for their lives handing it off to others. The rest was destroyed, taken down, and literally hundreds of decoy websites were put up by his followers. This site with all its flaws remains a place for his disillusioned ex-followers to come and find a safe place to vent grievances, state facts and tell it how it was. Not sure how it is now, but if they are still in his cult, they are complicit and doing damage to their kids' minds allowing them to bow to his pictures and listen to his BS.

Of course, everyone can worship a blue-balled God and his mistress aunty side-fuck. Everyone can venerate their guruvarga who are a bunch of grown old men fantasizing about becoming 12-year-old manjaris. Religious freedom adds some color to the world. And trauma. and a placid melted brain too.

Some sit in front of a teacher and hear and apply some usable info, keep to themselves, try their best to not create more havoc and misery. Others listen to a guru and are waiting for their moment to pounce on any indication that the guru is giving them a license to become a guru. some, like Bhaktisiddhanta, don't even wait for that. They just stand in front of a mirror, give themselves sanyas and start smashing everyone around them as false and fake. There is little to no proof that Bhaktisiddhanta took diksha from the babji gorikashoor. Bhaktivedanta left his wife cause she drank tea while he was a life-long tabcco snuff user making lame excuses about it "helping his sinuses". No verifiable medical use of tobacco snuff as a breathing aid. He was an addict.

The list goes on.

RUN.

I'm not down with ISKCON anymore, same as you're not down with SOIF anymore, dude.

But unlike yourself, I'm also not an atheist today. You are an atheist, and good for you. And I am not here to preach my theism to you (nor anybody else, for that matter), so I'd be grateful if you'd not preach your atheism to me. I am not here to argue with people.

And thank you for the citation above. I'll start reading up now.

Wait a minute: jagardguruchrisbutlercansuckmyballs.com is a dead link. It links to nothing. Can you please post a live link to that quote that you posted, so that those of us who are interested can research the matter? I'd sincerely like to learn more.

Without proper citation, FOREST, you are doing exactly what the corrupt-assed GBC did, and does: presenting things without presenting substantial evidence for them, and just expecting us to take your word for it. And I am hardly calling you liar; please do not get me wrong. I believe you.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2023 07:30AM by XKRISHNA.

If you say you believe me, then believe me. He stated and thought of his his followers ase idiots. And I could not agree more with that sentiment. Anyone in this day and age who still follows this guy, gives him money and has not seen through his BS is an unfortunate fool.

Anyone who believes, or believed this guy and served and worshipped him is a sad misguided person.

If anyone comes here and feels that their time in this group has affected their sanity, robbed them of critical thinking, and resulted in trauma, you are not alone. You have been conned. This man and the cult he operates as well as many other Hare Krishna cults out there are feeding you an unsubstantiated lie. No citations going back to the sun god himself. Just unfiltered mumbo-jumbo of the highest order that you should have glanced at, laughed, and run away from. So if you had unfortunately been born into it or spent time in it—hopefully not too long—then I urge you...

RUN.

Signed,
The corrupt-ass GBC