Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: September 05, 2022 01:46AM

I did not make some peaceful posts in order to create a Tsunami. I just shared how I have been feeling lately about the cult and how the emotions were destroying me and my heart.
Run Forest Run, I often come here with a spirit of defeat? I guess I have earned another label.
And I should leave and let those who fight the good fight do their job?
Let us not feel too much like some marvel super heroes because we are digital warriors.
And I sound like an abuse victim that say the guy had beautiful eyes?
And let people with rational thoughts speak. I can assure you that you do not always sound as rational as you think.
Time for an ego check. I know you hate my guts and have openly expressed it here quite often. This is your problem not mine.
It is aboslutely not your place to tell me to leave. Kindly mind your own business.
I know very well that I have been quite a despicable, unstable character in here. It still does not give any of you permission to get so bossy with me as though you own this forum and my presence bothers you.
Aren’t we getting a bit cultic now? Telling people what to do and chastize them.
I appreciate that you have suffered much. I have absolute compassion for the hurt.
I do not underestimate the emotional pain you have endured.
You should however refrain from getting so direct toward others who are also going through their trauma.
You and that frozen nick think you have me figured out psychologically.
I can assure you that you have no clue who I am and I have no clue who you are.
I spent 2 full years on this forum at the cost of ruining my health thinking over and over again about what this cult has done to me.
Disclosing the deepst hurt and feelings.
I have written separate very destructive posts about butler. Posts that can easily make me their worse ennemy.
You have no clue what I told them directly and the names I have called them.
Unlike many who hide here under fake names, I faced all of them personally.
I do not have the luxury to have a family of my own. I have noone. I lost some of the best and kindest friends I had.
People I could count on. So do not tell me that my attitude is one of a coward or defeatist.
We have all paid different prices to expose the truth and try and help others.
So don’t you dare minimizing my efforts. I will not minimize your efforts to debunk vaishnavism with a passion.
Your experience with krishna consc is yours. And yours alone.
I have an utterly different journey with the path and noone should be shamed for having gained something from bhakti yoga.
If I had gained the same things from abrahamic religions, I would for sure share it. Seems as though you are unconsciously trying to brainwash me into thinking am nuts for seeing the good aspect of the path.
Stop seeing the devotee and bhakti world through your lenses. You do have the intelligence to debate. Use your intelligence to understand that the bhakti yoga world is much more than my or your experiences.
Not 2 people have the same relation with any path. Be it Islam, christianity, Judaism…
Every single soul is unique in every aspect.
I have benefited from my years in the group and I have also been damaged. Why should I focus only on the damage? Masochism?
Noone has brainwashed me into thinking that SoI is the best krishna group fit for me.
I am a god damn adult and I can decide where I fit best.
I don’t want to be the ex disgrunted cult member who will carry this tumor for the rest of my life.
In all my years of being with them, they just got a bit more paranoid about showing the booklets and his videos in public.
We were just told that curiosity killed the cat and never google butler’s name.
Those who call them out, are seen as demons and nothing more.
This forum does not make it so that they are not able to sleep at night.
Same way as Iskcon is still standing with all the open pedo and murder crimes.
All the books writen about them. All the documentaries.
It possibly gives them more fuel to feel godly because demons are always trying to destroy the devotees, messengers, prophets…
It comes with the territory right? They are always well situated beause they worship Krishna.
Not carrying hate, anger, resentment, revenge… in my heart is something I do for my own spiritual well being.
It is not because I feel sorry for any of them. They have put their heads way too deep in the sand to see what is up.
Every single person is responsible for their own decisions. If some stay and get treated like dogs, it is not my job to jump in like the vigilante in duty and be their bodyguards.
We are trying to make the cult pay for hurting people who worship them. I mean can’t you see the irony?
Go to the person who has gotten schizophrenia and tell them it is because of abuse in the cult.
They will first ban you and tell you they are grateful to be paying off Karma via mental illness.
I know that I have been very irrational and erratic at times on this forum. It is never pleasant to go through such a painful exorcism.
Imagine how much some of you guys are ruining your psyche over this cult that you come back with different accounts on this forum to continue to bash them.
And I am the one who is being called irrational. Lol! Ok!
This forum serves a great purpose in the healing of ex members. And I will always be grateful.
I have played my puppet role as an ex cult member who speaks out against them.
Like in any movie, roles come to an end.
Because at the end of the day we are nothing but actors who perrish at 120 years old max.
It is my choice not to let SoI and butler’s mental parasites become the focus of an already crappy life.
I got afraid when the hurt this cult caused me was truly turning me into a monster. I still kept trashing an abuser who left this world due to an illness. I felt almost zero sadness in my heart.
And I could not even see all the positive, good things they had done for me.
This is where I had to draw the line and stop this BS.
I first let them destroy my faith and now I let them turn me into an abominable entity?
It is easy to only see the demons and parasites that have infested a person.
But what about their good sides, their sacrifices…? Is everything balck and white?
I take ownership for all the craziness I have displayed on this forum. I had lost complete control of my emotions.
As I said it before, this is not who I am or aspire to be.
The greatest battle is within and not without. But we are often fooled and pushed to foucs on external ones.
Keep attacking me and trashing me if it pleases you or make you feel superior.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: September 05, 2022 07:28AM

I did not have the intention of posting here again but did not feel like playing
Jesus and turn the left cheek.
So there was no need to invite me to leave the forum so arrogantly.
My last posts were nothing but filled with good intentions. But even though I came from a place of balance and kindness, I still was met with the dragon’s fire.
I know what it feels like to hold that spirit of revenge in my heart.
And I have the humility to admit I have been a lunatic ass on this forum because I was going through a major trauma processing.
No. I will not be that person who only sees the crap side of Vaishnavism as well as SoI.
I will not pretend that I only suffered there to please others.
I let my anger, abuse… corrupt my heart.
Not only am I not going to feel bad for abandoning this war, I thank myself for letting go of the immense hellish baggage of the past.
Be it material and spiritual.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 05, 2022 04:15PM

Truth wins Wrote:
> And I sound like an abuse victim that say the guy
> had beautiful eyes?
> And let people with rational thoughts speak. I can
> assure you that you do not always sound as
> rational as you think.

Being an androgynous extrovert who denied own interpreted homosexuality and liked crowds, he easily seduced women with lesbian tendencies???

> Aren’t we getting a bit cultic now? Telling people
> what to do and chastize them.

Jehovah's Witnesses speak to the departing, as Midgett wrote in a similar vein, after all, we are social animals and must be in some sect ...

> I can assure you that you have no clue who I am
> and I have no clue who you are.

Amazing, isn't it..We all read "Who are you" .... Most of us .. :)

> I spent 2 full years on this forum at the cost of
> ruining my health thinking over and over again
> about what this cult has done to me.

Good job.

By the way I was observing the tendency of my own mind to come back under the control of the Cult mechanisms. This is probably the most dangerous. After cutting off the factors of Cult, the whole narrative, set of concepts or training like a pet turns out to be stuck somewhere, and e.g. in illness when the mind weakens, these meanders can return. You have to use the aparratus to release them again.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2022 04:17PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: September 05, 2022 11:56PM

Please be courteous and avoid endless arguing.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: September 06, 2022 01:00AM

Yes. The endless arguing about how people see krishna consciousness must come to an end on this forum.
And also psychoanalizing and attacking those who process deep trauma should also be taken in consideration.
A respect for every individual to share their experiences is key. If we do not get these experiences, move on. No need to make someone feel bad about them.
Anyway Thanks Rick for offering us the opportunity to purge the pain and for creating this space. I could have never done it without this space.
I appologized a few times and I appologize again for my own aggressive behavior and lunacy. I truly cannot recognize my true self in many of these posts.
I did not start the argument this time but I cannot let anyone on this forum get so personal with me and stay quite.
When you were in a cult where you had to get abused and shut up (or else be banned) it is hard to take the punches silently.
I take ownership for having been a royal pain most times.
Anyway. Sorry and thanks again to everybody in here for putting up with my absolute craziness.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 07, 2022 06:27PM

Truth wins Wrote:
> Yes. The endless arguing about how people see
> krishna consciousness must come to an end on this
> forum.
> And also psychoanalizing and attacking those who
> process deep trauma should also be taken in
> consideration.

I don't think that will happen. Unless the forum / thread is closed. From conversations with, for example, former, current or SIF Polska satellites, it appears that they are often somewhere in the middle of dealing with the cult past, its hypocrisy, etc. They are ready to confess their doubts, not being afraid of "offences" or telling about scandalous incidents but they are not ready yet publicly or semi-publicly - on the forum - to come and describe it. I know some of their stories and for the sake of their good - I will not quote. But there have been many more incidents - bad fruit - and there will probably be more testimonies at some point.

@Truth wins, your private Message List is full. Cannot write back. Good luck. Thanks.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2022 06:44PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: September 07, 2022 09:18PM

Now that I have snapped out of that very horrible zone, I feel quite embarrassed about my behavior on this forum.
However it is also an indication of what decades of abuse (adding the spiritual abuse) can do to a person.
I guess that the healing modality that I picked was more than I bargained for. And I could never imagine what kind of purge it would be.
When we have been abused and could not or did not stand up for ourselves, it truly creates havoc within.
I did not know the power of spiritual abuse until the wounds opened.
Everything is stored in our consciounsess and emotional body. We often supresss the feelings via addictions…
But when we truly go deep and open the wounds up, it gets extremely ugly.
Do whatever you have to do people, but please do not let abuse take over like a furious demon within as it did with me.
As long as we carry the anger, hurt, revenge… we are not fully healed.
Sometimes in life we will not get closure. There will be no justice. Noone is going to pay for what they did. Noone stood up for us…
And this is the case with cult abuse. We must come to terms that there will be no justice and noone will recognize the abuse.
So we must find a way to make peace with it.
I am truly sorry for everything that happened to all of you in here and your loved ones. It is unforgivable and unacceptable.
Hoepfully we can grow from it rather than being destroyed by it.
Victory over abuse is healing. And gaining back a healthy realation with whatever one thinks divinity is. A relation free of fear.
First we freed ourselves from the cult and then we free ourselves from the wounds that attach us to them.
Taking our power back from the abusers is not as easy as finding the courage to enter battle with them.
It is when we no longer let them destory our peace of mind and construct a much better version of ourselves.
It is up to us to decide how long we want to hold on to the pain and bad memories.
But for sure abusers must be held accountable and Henry as well as this forum are the reason I was able to rise from the gutter.
If anybody feels ambitious, I found this website to be a good exemple of something that can be buit for SoI.


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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: September 21, 2022 06:11AM

It's not about healing. That ship sailed for many of us. It was either lost years, wasted time or complete nonsense.

As I've said, to me this place is to open up the minds of those who are still in it and are not comfortable with many aspects but have a hard time being realistic about it, finding the confidence to question it and ultimately abandon something that has little to no value.

I am mostly speaking to the youth in this cult who are at an age where they are forming their own identity and ideas and have felt for a long time that this and other similar krishna groups are some sort of silly nightmare they have been stuck in and they want to get out.

for the old timers who are in this, that is their life and there is not much they will lend an ear to. They are brainwashed. Utterly and completely.

I pity those who come here and are scared to leave or feel that something "bad" will befall them for leaving these groups. I also hate when people come here claiming that some bad "karma" has manifested in their life on account of their critique of these groups or calling them on their total bullshit.

I have had nothing ill or bad happen to me on account of leaving krishna consciousness. In fact, I can firmly say my life has been better on all fronts.

My only regret is that I ever joined and how long it took me to leave. Again, wasted years, wasted time, wasted energy, wasted relationships.

That may not be the case for everyone. Some have found a bond there and some "relief" or solace. I can't argue with that. But what I do argue against is that it has ANYTHING to do with krishna, the gurus, scriptures or ideology. It has to do with basic mechanisms that are at work in all satisfying group dynamics. In fact I often find that the so-called devotee communities and relationships that are more "liberal" and less dogmatic and strict tend to be the more rewarding ones. Those devotees tend to bond over fashion, music, or even sexuality, like in Tripurari maharaja's group where a slew of gay devotees bonded over their newfound and accepted devotee "gayness". In a similar way many devotee youth bond over their smoking of marijuana as a so-called herb of Shiva and enjoy Indian-style dress (fashion) and music, of which kirtan is an extension. Much like any number of groups bond over Christian music, punk music or dressing like a specific style. Are we to immediately say that Punk music or Christian music is "transcendental" because it makes people "happy"???? Are we to say that a woman's group that meets for years to do a reading circle is enjoying a "transcendental literature"????

Devotees are not exempt from any suffering. In fact often their very lifestyle increases it with mindless fasting days, restrictions in enjoying basic things and a general view of the world as an antagonistic place, not to mention their own body and mind.

So if a life of devotion to a blue cow-boy god does not afford one any exemptions from garden variety suffering, and many of its practices touted as "transcendental" are simply the result of normal group and sense-pleasure dynamics, what exact "good" and value does it really hold? In fact, it can mostly be said that the bad outweighs the good.

Generally, relationships in this cult are not honest, many people's emotional and mental wellbeing are dismissed, ignored or devalued. A huge portion of a persons thought process is wedged deep in delusional and imaginary thinking. Things like pretending that your guru or god is hearing your prayer, eating some food you made and are putting on little plates to "offer" to them, and imagining that you are some sort of ritual being destined to live on a cow planet with god and his girl-friend.

The philosophy is not much like many other philosophical systems or thoughts. It focuses on detachment, letting go of the things that are not in or control and accepting things we cannot change as either our "karma" or God's serious" plan for us. Basically a quasi blend of stoic realism and religious fanatical idealism.

And as with most religious groups, they hide. They abound in secrecy, distraction, diversion, and ultimately lies. There are things that are kept from the general public. There are things like yoga poses and vegetarian cooking and so-called meditation that masquerade for years in devotees lives as "krishna consciousness" when those things have nothing really to do with the ideology at all. Chaitanya did not do stretching yoga, the Pandavas were not vegetarian, and silent meditation or yoga nidra had zero to do with what the chaitanya saint taught. In fact little is known what the "scholar" actually taught and what he really said. Like christ, he left nothing of substance behind that can authentically be called a philosophical or religious system or any kind.

Anyway, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I hope people read what I have written here and not dwell too much on those who come here broken and confused and angry for the wrong reasons.

You should be angry because someone fed you shovels full of shit, not because you were criticized and made to do some service you disliked. You should be upset not because the blue god did not favor you in some way after giving your life to him, but rather that you even wasted a moment's time thinking some blue god was out there, period. You should be furious that you gave any attention to a man like butler and his total empire of hideous bullshit. Those born into this should be pretty pissed that their parents raised them in such a total lock-in cult dynamic, high-demand group. They should question EVERYTHING they were taught as "absolute truth". They should know the idiotic words of Bhakrivedanta, the pointless ritualism and re-installment of Brahmanism by Bhaktisiddhnata, the many many cases of abuse and crimes of SIF, ISKCON and Gaudiya Math. They should understand that both Bhaktivinode and his som mad claims of very critical important "Siddhanta" on nothing more than "dreams" they had. And finally, they should understand that the ultimate and final offering of this cult is to imagine and "realize" ones "eternal form" as a 12 year old farm girl who helps god and his girlfriend get off for eternity. And that they were simply told all of this stuff is "transcendental" with zero proof of any kind.

That is what I want for those people coming upon this forum.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 23, 2022 03:57PM

One can also be upset that did not have eyes and ears open to the achievements of the higher caste of the cult, patricians or praetorians. Let us take the example of nice Vishnu das, who in the old days, as different people say, was not very nice and his behavior was close to a crime story.

In public lectures, he gave an example of materialism in buying a house in a better neighborhood of the city. He did so too. He needed a wife to be happy. He got married. He began to show symptoms at some point that he was beginning to understand the Bhagavad Gita (after 1.5 or 2 decades of recruiting and leading a flock of sheep). In his stories he alludes to a journey into the spiritual world (when Gaudiya gurus say the soul is already there) but uses the atmosphere of Croatia to recruit and spends time in Norway. Beautiful pictures. He bathes in a cold stream. It is a beautiful contact with nature. They have no children. Something is missing here. The guru said at the video lecture "... buys a dog. Dog dies buys a cat. Cat dies". About the need for someone to love. This is what Vishnu das did and runs with his wife around Norway with a dog. There is a dog. Man! He bought a dog. To love. Noo. Don't make an offense. This dog is very lucky, for sure will go back to God, to Krishna....

Not like in the Polish comedy "Vabank", a woman getting out from the prison warden 'whether I came with or without a dog' .... His "siddhanta" can be toppled in 5 minutes. Symptoms of ignoring this Veda ...

But still Grand Vizier for those small sheep...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2022 03:58PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: September 23, 2022 08:52PM

I can see again that the post hints to what I have shared. I could have just let it slide, but as I am sitting here with chronic injuries, it is going to be a bit tough to stay humble.
And this is far feom being an argument or attack.
Try and understand the complexities of the relation people have with so called gods, gurus, spiritual paths…
Each so called human has a different blueprint. There is no way we can compare our journey and the way we look at life in general with another person.
It is totally fine that you or anybody hates the fact that after leaving the cult or speaking against them can be costly to some.
I have seen way too many people come back after 10 years because all they experienced was misery. Or that they were harrassed with inner voices that made them miss or regret leaving.
Not 2 people can experience the same thing in regards anything. What to speak of spirituality and relations to deities.
I understand that my personal experiences in general are way to fringe for most people. Nevertheless it is a reality that I experience.
I am truly glad that you were able to build a better life This is not the case for many.
The old me would have been too anti conflict to speak against them. It is only that state that felt like a possession that pushed me to do so.
I am now used to pass for crazy and as I have lost all my friends devotees and non devotees, life feels much lighter. So I thank the Tsunami that was brough upon me.
And the new me that has purged all that crap, could not care less about any of that non sense.
I do not encourage people to fear the consequences of leaving the Krishna groups. No matter how much suffering or guikt they experience.
Spiritual institutions are mental hospitals these days and gurus are themsleves in need of psych help more than the students.
Healinh is everything. As I have dumped and purged decades of material and spiritual abuse, nothing truly matters. I no longer want to look at my past.
The vigilante side of me was that wounded abused person noone stood up for.
And I wanted to be the Xman who defends others and all my life I have wqnted to wear the cross for others.
I guess that K consc was a perfect match for an alien soul who never wanted tombe on earth and missed home.
We can either look at those years as lost or a waste or as precious lessons in human psychology.
Let us try and not judge others and their journeys. Why they complain and howmthey cope with their lives.
I can assure you that healing is truly everything and there are way too many layers to shed.
I am truly sorry that my crazy phase made it so we never had a good relation in here.
I think that you have a very good heart for caring about others and wanting to help.
I can assure you that many youngsters do not suffer as much as you have. Many are quite happy in the cult.
Look at the Royal family. Harry makes it look like he lived in hell and other members seem quite happy and well adjusted.
I truly wish you all the best Forest. I know that my behavior in here was deserving of the criticism.
You are very fortunate that you were left to lead a good life. This has not been my journey as I have had my life sabotaged day after day as soon as I stepped out.
I absolutely had the right to share my personal and fringe experiences with the path and the cult.
And shate my side of the story instead of walking on eggshells not to pass for nuts. I have only shared my truth and my truth is way too schizo for the average person. However it is still unfortunately true.
Wven though my life is hell, not carrying the abuse on my shoulders anymore and energetically cutting the cords with the clown show feels like heaven.
I am finally free from the plague of SoI. The demons have been purged. Unfortunately bitker failed to purge his but imposed it upon others.

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