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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: August 25, 2022 10:21AM

The most dangerous things in the world are immense accumulations of human beings who are manipulated by only a few heads.

Carl Jung

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: August 26, 2022 02:09AM

Leaving this here for those Butler followers with a brain.

[answeraggregator.quora.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: August 26, 2022 02:26AM

Siddhaswarupanandas's political career ends on fox news. Very telling...

[www.barrettsportsmedia.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: August 27, 2022 08:37PM

Culthusiast. Let it go.
The guru in that process will always be seen as perfect and pure. Nobody will ever have the courage to see the “dark” side of SoI.
Those who do, are no longer there obviously.
Devotees are absolutely blinded by bliss and the power of illusion. So RIP. They are happy in their service and hope of getting of the will.
They will never recognize spiritual abuse because abuse is seen as mercy.
There are no victims because it is our karma. And it is the fault of false ego we were not able to handle the abuse better.
If X and Y returned after years of getting kicked out with their tail between their legs, so can we. Lower than the dog crap on the street is the way to heaven and this is the place god loves to embrace you.
You hit someone with a boat. It was their karma. Nothing anybody can do about it.
You dealt drugs. No worries. The money is purified in krishna’s service. And offer the cannabis so that it is parasadam. Lol!
You get my point. There will always be an excuse and a quote in scripture that justifies that behavior.
Cutting all emotional, psychological, memories, ties… with them is the wisest thing one can do.
We all know that most people who are in the group are satisfied with their situation. And even if they are not, they are still safer there than in the material world.
Let the purgatory factory function. Souls need to get purified one way or another.
Even if it is going to kill you from exhaustion and autoimmune disorders.
I can assure you 1000 percent that butler is not in full control of who he is. If he was, he would not torture himself with his disorders.
And no soul who suffers from such debilating fears and disorders can be considered liberated and happy.
One can also blame the process for making us believe that a human can be infallible and perfect. This is absolute BS in this age and day.
I keep my energy for things that matter more than exposing some blissheads who are 1000 times better off than me.
Do whatever you want, but try and keep emotionally distant from it.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: August 28, 2022 12:11AM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Culthusiast. Let it go.

Noooo, that is their karma i'm nasty...

> The guru in that process will always be seen as
> perfect and pure. Nobody will ever have the
> courage to see the “dark” side of SoI.

In practice, the scriptures say a bit differently. Let's take Bhagavatam Canto 6 Chapter 7 Verse 35:

Quote

Sri Visvarupa said: O demigods, although the acceptance of priesthood is decried as causing the loss of previously acquired brahminical power....(....)

The guru took a wife (his disciple), broke sanyasa rules, took earlier priesthood. One must accept he lost a lot...

> You hit someone with a boat. It was their karma.
> Nothing anybody can do about it.
> You dealt drugs. No worries. The money is purified
> in krishna’s service. And offer the cannabis so
> that it is parasadam. Lol!

but what about anarthas....This is a very disturbing concept mentioned in the developmental stages of bhakti-yoga ....

> You get my point. There will always be an excuse
> and a quote in scripture that justifies that
> behavior.

Twisted excuses.

> I can assure you 1000 percent that butler is not
> in full control of who he is. If he was, he would
> not torture himself with his disorders.

On video-material "butler-aids" looks like mad or crazy.

> Do whatever you want, but try and keep emotionally
> distant from it.

But i am their bad karma...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2022 12:12AM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: August 29, 2022 03:33AM

On page 550 of this forum - link below - Mrs. Lobaczewska, who was sued by the cult (IWoT, Instytut Wiedzy o Tozsamosci "Misja Czaitanii"). 1996. In fact, the judge while reading the statement of reasons for the judgment, he drew the public's attention to the fact that the court's assessment was not unequivocal.

There was an interesting scene connected with the case that took place "in the back". During retreat. Lalita Syam dasi was then responsible for the cult's public relations. Regardless of the facts and feelings of mentioned mother of a cult member - Mrs. Lobaczewska - the case had a political and worldview dimension. Where left-wing groups were anti-church and cheered on the Cult. Placing Mrs. Lobaczewska on the Catholic Church's side.

[forum.culteducation.com]

The scene in the back of the retreat was supposed to be that the subject of the trial was discussed by Tusta Krishna das, Tapasya das and Lalita Syam dasi. During the conversation (perhaps Tusta left then) a journalist called Lalita Syam dasi on mobile phone and he expressed congratulations. At this point, Tapasya das was supposed to stick his tongue out of his mouth and manifest a gesture suggesting licking the woman's vagina - as an evaluation of the phone call and congratulations to Lalita Syam dasi. For a spiritual leader of the group who once i.e. criticized Tulasi Manjari dasi's too short shorts, it looked quite surprising and was an expression of hypocrisy. Plus the manifestation of consciousness.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: August 29, 2022 10:51PM

Yes this is the way I felt too.
I thought it is my job to deliver the karma or get revenge for the pain the had imposed upon me.
Whatever the hell karma is, trying to make other people pay because the so called divine forces don’t give a damn, has been costly.
I confronted a family member abuser. And I realized it is easier for me to suffer than to make a person pay for what they have done to me.
And I know that nothing will ever touch them or make them change their ways. So there is no use try and wake them up.
What devotee x and y do is their business. And if some enjoy stockholm syndrome and trauma bonding, it is their business.
Noone truly gives a F… about my suffering. Why do I care so much about the suffering of some blissed out individuals who are addicted to happiness.
Do as you wish. Forgetting about them is the best thing one can do for themselves.
You are not their bad katma because they could not care less about what is being said in this forum.
You are just poisoning your heart and consciousness.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: August 30, 2022 03:58AM

I beg to differ TruthWins. And I see you come here often and declare a mood of defeat. This forum exists to show how they abuse, what they abuse, what they stand for, and believe in and how this is all damaging and crippling to society at large. If your final word here is "the don't care about this forum", then leave. Please. Leave this space for those fighting the good fight with authenticity, rational thought and a verve for truth. Because I can assure you your approach fuels them in the end. They do care. They have fought vigorously to subvert this forum. But rest assured, as long as here, young butler kids will come here and realize quickly they have been fed this biggest line of bullshit in history about this cult they are a part of.

“The moment you say that any idea system is sacred, whether it's a religious belief system or a secular ideology, the moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible.”

—Salman Rushdie

"At the age of 12 his mother arranged his marriage with a five year old girl named Sayamani who was a resident of Ranaghat..."

Bhaktivinodes first wife died at childbirth. Aged 14. The most common cause of a mother dying at childbirth is her age. "The youngest mothers—those aged 14 and under—faced the greatest risks. Research from Bangladesh showed that the risk of maternal mortality may be five times higher for mothers aged 10 to 14 than for mothers aged 20 to 24."...

The great nitya parishad Lalita Sakhi, direct associate of the radha krishna gods apparently had no problem taking birth and just going along with barbaric hindu customs of the time?

While in the rest of the developing world this was called pedophilia and abhorrent, the "bhaktas" thought it was totally "normal" and acceptable. This is the culture this religion sprouted in. Over-sexed, rape-filled faith, with gods incarnating as penises and vaginas (shiva ling), all manner of blunt sexually deviant references in their scriptures and yet they delude themselves that it's "transcendental" and "pure" and "beyond the mind". Fucking delusional people. They then pretend that it's just about "chanting" some mantra that is literally not found anywhere but ONE fringe, questionable scripture.

These people have the balls to talk about "codes of conduct and ethics". They are delusional. They follow delusion, They preach delusion. They spread delusion. The worship of a blue smurf playboy god that should have been abandoned eons ago persists to this day by sheer force of idiocy. Nothing more.

Meanwhile, Tulsi Gabbard built her political career for Butler by aligning with their newfound "Hindu" garb and Modhi's India.

Jai Bharat Varsha Ki Jai! [www.nytimes.com]

Mark my words, in the name of a blue cowboy sex god these freaks will continue to abuse, take money, confuse and cripple the critical thinking skills of generations of people. If allowed and not fought against, we will have versions of India 2.0 everywhere. Fascist governments in ruin and social turmoil for no good reason other than mindless adherence to archaic scriptures and pure sentimental nonsense.

TruthWins:

"They all try to do their best and ultimately they are much kinder than the average person out there."

By what measure? Some of the biggest assholes I met in my life including Butler were hare Krishna devotees. I have met thousands of people nicer and more sane than most "average devotees". Being a hare krishna does not make one magically "nice".

"My years spent at SoI are not lost. And of all the krishna groups, it is still the one that fit me the best."

You sound like an abuse victim who says, "But he still had the most beautiful eyes of any man I ever met...:. Give me a fucking break. These assholes filled your brain with pure garbage nonsense that you can disprove and discredit in 3 words, and somehow you feel they are the best fit for you of Krishna groups. The only reason any brainwashed asshat would prefer Butler compared to other krishna groups is cause he doesn't have the "authentic" traditional approach to the whole nonsense package. Trust me, your years in SoI were LOST.

In India you see the real deal. Like in Gaudiya Math. Those guys are serious and the 'real" deal for all that it's worth (no less delusional, but they gobble it up hook line and sinker without modifying and bending their own rules to ft the whim of the time). Then you have ISKCON and its offshoots. And finally, you have the likes of Butler. The diluted dahl of the Gaudiya Vaishnava cult. If it was not for the fact that they literally worship the chaitanya saint, you'd be hard-pressed to even figure out what they really are about. Butler looks like some sort of Chinese zen master the way he dresses.

Listen guys, please don't ever feel bad for ever calling these clowns on their total charade bullshit shit show. There has never been, nor will there ever be, a "trustworthy" religious group. Let alone hare krishna groups. History shows it.

Do you honestly think Brahmanism and Vaishnavism throughout the history of India was some pretty picture? It was a caste-based system of misogynistic abuse. Prabhupada was abusive to his wife. Bhaktivinoda and all these other people were abusive to their wife and kids. If fucking a 14 year old was "kosher" by their social standards, trust me, hitting your 13 kids and emotionally abusing them was an everyday affair.

Since then into modern times the Hare Krishna cults have been riddled to this day with some level of abuses. The whole gabbard campaign revealed just how recent and persistent it was. ISKON is barely now putting out a "Code of Ethics", you know, cause it was high on their priority list.

What did you honestly learn in the krishna cults that all other religions do not basically promote? You are not your body, you are a soul? All religions state this. NEXT! God is a male. NEXT! Karma and Reincarnation... Taught in all eastern traditions to one extent or another. NEXT! Eat vegetarian. Countless religions promote this. NEXT! Singing of praise to the god/teachers/saints etc—all theistic faiths and even atheistic traditions have some element of sing-song meditation or style of worship. NEXT!

You can go down the list. The only unique thing is the Puranic gods and myths. Which, unless you fell on your head or are seriously delusional, you cannot take at face value in any way. You think Jayadevs Gita Govinda or any other so-called radha krishna stories are "Bonafide"???? How? The goddess radha is not even mentioned in the Bhagavtam. So any saint that wrote about this stuff was pulling it right out of their ass. They were not referring to scripture. They were writing stuff that pleased their mind.

The only reason most religions do not walk around on the street with megaphones and loud instruments is that they are considerate of the general public and do not want to IMPOSE their faith on others. It's called respect for others' faith. No one likes the guy standing on the corner with the megaphone telling everyone to surrender to Jesus!!! Even people who like Jesus don't like that guy.

Modern-day Krishna followers try to covertly hide the real gaudiya tradition of "Manjari bhava" as the top goal and offering of their tradition. In fact, many will go as far as saying it's so esoteric—you should not ever hear it or speak of it. Yet, somehow, the great "vaishnavas" had a hard time not spilling the beans. And needless to say we all know what radha and krishna are doing in the proverbial bushes. You think Narayan Maharaj got a bunch of disciples cause he was telling people they are not their body????

One can tout so-called transcendental and mystical experiences. It never holds up. It's never universally applicable, and it NEVER is truly "beyond the material world". Anything that you can conceive of happens because you have a material brain in your skull and senses to perceive stuff. Anything suggested beyond that is speculative, conjecture and bullshit till proven otherwise. And guess what? No one has proven it even an iota. No Indian tradition, no western, Chinese or Mayan traditions either. Thousands of years have passed. Demons worse than Hiranyakashipu have come and gone and yet no Narasigha dev is popping out of pillars to save the day.

What is unique and cool is cultures, how myths captivated us and how we continue to tell the human story with books, art, music and so on. Anyone practicing some garbage religion in this day and age is a lost cause. There is much amazing things to wonder and sort out in the universe, in our own head without resorting to the mumbo jumbo hare krishna crap. And that is what it is. Crap.

Culthusiest. I get it, Guna Theory is interesting, Karma, Yoga etc. These are all philosophical ideas practiced by both atheistic and theistic faiths. Samkhya, from which much of these ideas sprang from is to concerned with blue smurf gods and goddesses fooling around in a medieval indian cow amusement park for eternity. It rejects it.

Any later developments in Purnaic hinduism were directly correlated to bramanism and brahman superiority and caste social structures. Bhakt and other devotional movements arose mostly from socio-political and religious atmospheres that rejected Brahmanism as a superior faith. To not lose a foothold on the public and gain support in unifying a religious identity, they wrote books like Ramayana, Mahabharat and so on that continued to establish the so-called "vedic" and "revealed" nature of the moral and ethical systems that were traditionally present in Indian culture. Much of it as an affront on the dominion of Buddhism in India and abroad. Brahmins wanted to stay in power.

Today, Gaudiya groups and people like Bhaktisiddhanta did the EXACT same thing. The reinstated "brahman diksha" brahman threads and brahman superiority. They promote and adopt scriptures like Gita that actively promote the Caste system and structure and they chant the names of puranic/brahman neo-vedic gods. And hence India, under Modhi and the like, is still under the sewage of such ideologies. To this very day causing social issues beyond your wildest dreams. Like letting a bunch of Hindu rapists back on the streets. Men who raped Muslim women. And Dalits and other so-called "untouchables" are still living under the uneducated religious fanatical dogmas that hare Krishna devotees love pretending has nothing to do with them while they worship Rama and Krishna, the originators of such systems of oppressive ideology.

[www.jstor.org]

[indianhistorycollective.com]

Don't just gobble up Prabhupadas books. Study the actual scriptures if you are interested in how they evolved, the social climates they evolved in and how various myths, gods, and stories, saints and religious cults and groups arose as a direct reaction to an evolution of post vedic ideas (which if you have ever read, needed some elucidation to even be taken seriously at a certain point):

[www.exoticindiaart.com]

[www.researchgate.net]

So you know, put on some running shoes and...

RUN.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: August 30, 2022 05:56PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Noone truly gives a F… about my suffering. Why do
> I care so much about the suffering of some blissed
> out individuals who are addicted to happiness.
> Do as you wish. Forgetting about them is the best
> thing one can do for themselves.

People accept / assume that you are suffering and SIF has been the source of the suffering. For this reason, this forum thread exists. There are many people in Poland who suffer. In the cult and beyond the cult. For example, the effects of schizophrenia or treatment with neuroleptics (the old generation causes, for example, neuronal dysokinesis). There is one woman in Krakow who experiences suffering from all electromagnetic signals for years and has reported demonic attacks on herself and her child. Suicide compulsion. She was married to one of the members.

Besides, looking more broadly beyond modern science and the ideology of worship, some clairvoyants reported that the cult established connection of energy channels from members or recipients of mantras, or that for some women initiated in Poland their relationship with a guru is sexual - virtual but still sexual - energy of the lower chakras. Establishing the astral channel. Or establishing energy loops between the chakras or bonds at the level of specific organs. These are the accusations of an esoteric nature, but they have also been made.

> You are not their bad katma because they could not
> care less about what is being said in this forum.
> You are just poisoning your heart and
> consciousness.

To warn people.

And even because of the alleged moral superiority - if we move in the zone of sensitive, spiritual vegans and vegetarians. If the guru, who is brilliant in descriptions, sold the cows to a slaughterhouse or an ordinary farmer, risking their slaughter, then his power of love does not exist, the realization is a fiction. He's a scammer.Principal murder.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "At the age of 12 his mother arranged his marriage
> with a five year old girl named Sayamani who was a
> resident of Ranaghat..."
>
> Bhaktivinodes first wife died at childbirth. Aged
> 14. The most common cause of a mother dying at
> childbirth is her age. "The youngest mothers—those
> aged 14 and under—faced the greatest risks.
> Research from Bangladesh showed that the risk of
> maternal mortality may be five times higher for
> mothers aged 10 to 14 than for mothers aged 20 to
> 24."...

Yes, it is amazing especially when you remember that officially in the varnaasrama system the brahmacari period is supposed to be up to 25 years of age. So how do you explain the sex of a 14-year-old girl and her pregnancy ...

> Any later developments in Purnaic hinduism were
> directly correlated to bramanism and brahman
> superiority and caste social structures. Bhakt and
> other devotional movements arose mostly from
> socio-political and religious atmospheres that
> rejected Brahmanism as a superior faith. To not
> lose a foothold on the public and gain support in
> unifying a religious identity, they wrote books
> like Ramayana, Mahabharat and so on that continued
> to establish the so-called "vedic" and "revealed"
> nature of the moral and ethical systems that were
> traditionally present in Indian culture. Much of
> it as an affront on the dominion of Buddhism in
> India and abroad. Brahmins wanted to stay in
> power.

These are the symptoms. Ideology as a source of recognized superiority and a tool for gaining and maintaining power. Old game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2022 06:02PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: August 30, 2022 06:01PM

> Culthusiest. I get it, Guna Theory is interesting,
> Karma, Yoga etc. These are all philosophical ideas
> practiced by both atheistic and theistic faiths.
> Samkhya, from which much of these ideas sprang
> from is to concerned with blue smurf gods and
> goddesses fooling around in a medieval indian cow
> amusement park for eternity. It rejects it.

The scriptures can be inspiration, etc. On the human level, however, I accept these Hindu gurus or their students - as people - who are dominated by the search for the absolute, there is no partyism, and who have empathy and care in their behavior. They will entertain, welcome the wanderer, and feed him. With all respect for their beliefs and traditions. Whether science is coherent or not is another matter. But if they are good people - time is not wasted. On the other hand, activists with a recruiting motive, showing contempt for people and objective empirical science - who break their own principles that may be objectively good as related to universal moral values - stay away.

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