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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 14, 2022 12:22AM

From an older post - a discussion of how the original Chaitanya bhakti yoga devotion to Krishna was not anti sexual, not misogynist, not homophobic and how this material was later perverted into an authoritarian body hating cult:

[forum.culteducation.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: October 14, 2022 03:34AM

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one knows a word you are talking about
> Culthusiast. I think anyone visiting here would be
> hard-pressed to make heads or tales of a word you
> have "contributed" here about this hare krishna
> cult.

the truth is, i'm wacko. after all, I was in this cult. I came as an idiot and it got even worse ...

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.independent.co.uk]


Quote

Butler gave a rare interview for the same New Yorker article in 2017, saying that he did have disciples, but rejecting claims he was an authoritarian.

Butler, who also goes by the name Jagad Guru, or teacher of the world, said he preferred to think of himself as a follower or student, rather than a teacher or leader.

He described his relationship with his devotees as one of love.

Sure...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: October 15, 2022 12:37AM

Culthusiast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> [www.independent.co.uk]
>
>
>
Quote

Butler gave a rare interview for the same
> New Yorker article in 2017, saying that he did
> have disciples, but rejecting claims he was an
> authoritarian.
>
> Butler, who also goes by the name Jagad Guru, or
> teacher of the world, said he preferred to think
> of himself as a follower or student, rather than a
> teacher or leader.
>
> He described his relationship with his devotees as
> one of love.
>
> Sure...

Some famous quotes - to remind:

[forum.culteducation.com]

“ You are all demons, you are just like f###king ISCON, Your all condemned!!!”

“I am not condemning you, you are condemning yourself.”

“My Godbrothers in Iskcon are clumps of dog stool.”

(aren't they spirit souls but under illusion - still children of God?)

“ If I don’t want to answer you, you are at fault not me.”

“If you don’t know you are not supposed to know.”

“As soon as you realize you have nothing to offer me and you don’t know anything maybe then I can teach you something.”

“It is your fault, the guru is faultless.”

“You would think with 25 kitchen servants and 35 preparations a day, spending over a hundred dollars a meal, you a##holes could make something good to eat. Instead I have to go to a Chinese restaurant to get a bite to eat. A-holes!!!”

“Damn it keep your gun in your bead bag. That’s what it is for idiot!! You probably thought you were supposed to keep beads in that bag. Fool!!! I have to teach you guys everything!!!”

“WTF is a##hole doing here, tell him to get the f##k out of here.”

“Tell J--- I don’t want to see his face, but because I have to talk to him and deal with him, he can wear a bag over his head, then I don’t have to see his face.”

“I am more humble than anyone, even my own guru.”

“My disciples are all f###king neophytes.”

“Everyone has guruitis but me and VD.”

“Insulting VD is worse than insulting me you idiot.”

“Are those a-holes still running that store in Lahaina, why don’t they give it to DTE, a-holes--- and they call themselves my disciples make all kinds of money while their kids skate and surf, a-holes, they should give it to me.”

“WTF!!!!.. you guys have been working on getting this house together for 6 weeks now. You expect me to live here after you shit all over it??? You missed a space there dumb shit, cover it with tin foil so I can live here in peace. Straighten out your germ mask idiot.”

“Tell Wayne and Krishna das, WTF, I let them get into politics and now they act just like politicians!!!! They became politicians those buttheads!!”

That's examples of non authoritarian love relations guru - disciples...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2022 12:39AM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 16, 2022 09:57PM

I truly hope that there will be an afterlife reward for the iskcon and SoI devotees.
Asides from the Elites of any of these groups or those who have it good, the others have experienced a slice of hell in these institutions.
Even those who have an instagram life in the cult of butler are lost. Lost because they have surrendered and accepted a disordered person as a pure and perfect entity.
It is only the power of illusion that can keep most people functioning.
Yes this is some kind of love. It is a toxic unconditional love.
The followers are also full of imperfections that the guru must put up with.
As they say it themselves, it is a mental hospital. And noone can truly get well at a mental hopsital.
Seems as though some of us will have to spend many yesrs healing from that mental hopsital.
The spiritual society is the same as the material one. The survival of the fittest. I guess at SoI that means who your daddy is, how pretty pr handsome you are, how rich or talented you are.
Those who have these priviledges, will do better.
What betrays us in life is us being so naive as to think we can be safe amonsgt “godly” people.
Thet is no safety in this jungle in general.
The path of bhakti takes away any layers of protection a soul carries and then you become vulnerable.
The kind of vulnerability that comes with being lower than the straw on the street, requires a setting that is similar to the hallmark movies.
You need to be amongst very spiritually advanced souls as well as emotionally stable.
Unfortunately many of us are not that sane and we just get more screwed in cults.
No matter how well adjusted some devotees are, including tulsi, they have been sold a huge lie and immitation spirituality.
But everybody is blinded by bliss and the promise of getting off the wheel of birth and death.
I have realized that we do not need others or a guru to point out our faults. We all can learn to be in tune with the inner guidance.
Noone knows us better than we know ourselves. And it is BS that the guru knows your heart and mind.
He does not even know his own mind.
Religions want to turn humans into a cookie cutter format. There is no true originality or individuality allowed.
I remember meeting a very organic, funny, simple, genuine young man. After 2 years or so, he started acting very serious and “constipated”.
We all gradually adapted to what was more appropriate to fit into a cult.
Our center made big brother look like a joke. Even the way you danced or clapped was under the microscope.
Everybody wants us to be what they want us to be. But in cults it is much more accentuated.
How absolutely fortunate we are that our minds are no longer under control.
Even if we carry scars that may stay with us for the rest of the lives of these bodies, having escaped such a messed up setting, is truly a blessing.
I know that you (run forest run)and I, had many arguments.
But know that I have respect for how much you hate the lies and injustices.
You have succeeded in your material life, but still fight to expose the lies. Not caring if it will help only one person.
You are the perfect individual to carry out that mission and show that there is life after the cult.
As I said it before, the cult is pretty much out of my system.
But after watching a few tulsi videos, I had a bit of a sense of disgust.
It suddenly reminded me of all the methods that are used to lure people.
Yoga and meditation classes, mini yoga retreats, how they never tell people wailana is the wife, we are not hare krishnas…
The lack of transparency is now reaching the non cult members via tulsi. She is not so much a victim.
We all have the choice to refuse to lie. But she chooses to lie for guru and krishna.
After that, I realized that I just HATE lies. It is not even that I hate butler or his cult.
I hate it when people get scammed. And I hate scammers. It is never a lucky day for them when they dial my number go try and scam me.
The TRUTH is more powerful than any worship hungry deity of religions.
So after all the craziness, I thank you run forest run for all your efforts and for caring about the next person who will fall into a trap.
It is not about winning or losing a battle against the cult. It is all about holding ourselves and others accoutable for our/their actions.
We cannot say that bulter ever hid who he is. Others accepted him for who he is. And they enabled him.
This is the art of the narcissist manipulators. They are like the snake in the book of the jungle.
Once you wake up from the trance, your life, your psyche, your physical health are all ruined. And you wonder how the heck did I allow this to happen?
I guess you were right to get angry at my passivity.
Whoever stands on the side of turth has my outmost respect.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: October 16, 2022 11:05PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> of butler are lost. Lost because they have
> surrendered and accepted a disordered person as a
> pure and perfect entity.

A former cult member says the "guru" received psychiatric treatment. But I did not see any formal evidence.

There are, however, known cases of "public healers" whose sessions helped but in turn induced schizophrenia in some situations. What in the context of the teachings of yoga psychology can be commented that if one or another rigor is incomplete or not adjusted to individual conditions (vata, pita, kapha), personality, environment, etc., helping in one will harm the other. Psychologically, life wisdoms like these remarks by Mr. Midgett that people today have all the facilities for sense gratification - an inhabitant of paradise islands - when people live a month - families for $ 150.

> As they say it themselves, it is a mental
> hospital. And noone can truly get well at a mental
> hopsital.

Hopsital. A very good name. Hop-sit-all!

> The spiritual society is the same as the material
> one. The survival of the fittest. I guess at SoI
> that means who your daddy is, how pretty pr
> handsome you are, how rich or talented you are.

Ironic. But sometimes different. A leader fully committed to teaching, deprived of material qualifications, then tends to "promote", support the initiation ("recommend") of a person also deprived of qualification, defined as "two left hands", and express public wishes for financial support. Solidarity. Party. We promote our servants and helpers.

> The path of bhakti takes away any layers of
> protection a soul carries and then you become
> vulnerable.

Black elephant, gray elephant and white one.

> The kind of vulnerability that comes with being
> lower than the straw on the street, requires a
> setting that is similar to the hallmark movies.
> You need to be amongst very spiritually advanced
> souls as well as emotionally stable.

The main point is not to be the straw, but to consider "bhakti" as a gift. Not a fruit of sadhana. That's the teaching. With 16 rounds as "encouragement".

> But everybody is blinded by bliss and the promise
> of getting off the wheel of birth and death.

Mukti motivation?

> I have realized that we do not need others or a
> guru to point out our faults. We all can learn to
> be in tune with the inner guidance.

One of the sanyasis said that it is the ability to see one's own faults, to recognize them, that is grace.

> Noone knows us better than we know ourselves. And
> it is BS that the guru knows your heart and mind.
> He does not even know his own mind.

In this temporal dimension, it is true. But what about the superphysical dimension. Vedas is a proposition. Buddhists have theirs. Descriptions of bardo states, the process of dying. People have clairvoyance etc.

> Religions want to turn humans into a cookie cutter
> format. There is no true originality or
> individuality allowed.

Cults are organizations. They are imperceptibly looking for momentum. They need real estate when they grow up. The rent comes out. A lecture in another city requires a car. Cars break down. The dynamics of reality distort the amount of revenues. And the moment of verification comes - whether the leaders will come to terms with this fact or whether the "shortages" will be thrown on the sheep, which instead of doing rounds, for example, will work more. Rajas. Passion. Etc. I watched these mechanisms - not alone - others in the cult also quietly investigated it. And my conclusion was that 85% of the members became slaves to these motorisms, automatisms.

> I know that you (run forest run)and I, had many
> arguments.
> But know that I have respect for how much you hate
> the lies and injustices.
> You have succeeded in your material life, but
> still fight to expose the lies. Not caring if it
> will help only one person.
People are warning. For example, Mr. Midgett's meditation demonstration. Papa Smurf. Mantra.pl. Mr. Midgett Balakhiyla das showed him meditating, he became sleepy, it looked like it was taking away his energy. As if he was dying. His right hand was trembling like Parkinsonism. When he broke off, his energy returned to him. People saw it. In the next webinar, your hand is partially covered. This shows the danger - this practice has a negative effect on neurokinetics. Suppression and then some auto-narcotic bonus. People must be warned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2022 11:08PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: October 20, 2022 01:40AM

Here we go again—Tulsi Gabbard playing her wishy-washy game-changing hats as it supports her campaign and rhetoric. Everyone sees right through it now. They know that she is entirely manipulated by and controlled by her guru and his whims. She sounds like a total nut job in nearly every tweet and article about her, which is a fact. She grew up in a religious cult, worshipping a narcissistic freak germaphobe guru and hoe plastic-ono-band wife.

https://www.insider.com/tulsi-gabbard-science-of-identity-controversial-religious-sect-2022-10

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/tulsi-gabbard-cult-putin-democrat-science-of-identity-b2058196.html

As always they will cry "hindu-phobe" and bigot" without answering a single question about their guru in a truthful, realistic and rotational way.

My favorite is still this article form 2019 showing her and her whole family, in 2019, worshipping a picture of Butler from the 70s like some sort of lunatics. Grown adults bowing, singing and getting emotional about a picture fo their dictator, narcissistic, hateful guru: [iowainformer.com]

Butlers influence has resulted in at least a few deaths, criminal activities for him executed by his followers, bullying, unlawful schools for indoctrinating his follower's kids into his service and worship and numerous scams. That is not including the many secret things that only a few of us know about related to his extravagant lifestyle and hateful, vile and vulgar language towards other religious faiths, other krishna groups and his own followers and sensitive issues like sexuality.

Butler lives in expensive beach homes most of his life floated by his follower's businesses set up for his gain and now with Tusli Gabbard flopping political parties so that she can "tap into a new money stream" no doubt.

With Butler's quasi-Christian favorable flavor of the month, she will fit right in with gun-totting, god-fearing wackos who like to keep women in their place, roll back humanity by banning abortion rights, and considering systemic racism against blacks and other people of color as fiction, maybe even as anti-white sentiment. Her words:

"I can no longer remain in today’s Democratic Party. It’s now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue and stoking anti-white racism, who actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms enshrined in our Constitution."

Let the lunatic bells ring loud from the church of Butler.

Not much progress has been made in this cult since the days of Bhaktivedanta. Now a legion of their disciples is randomly switching to being Republicans. For no other reason than Butler says so and Tulsi switched "sides". The party spirit is high with the hare krishnas as usual.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: October 20, 2022 05:57PM

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Butlers influence has resulted in at least a few
> deaths, criminal activities for him executed by
> his followers, bullying, unlawful schools for
> indoctrinating his follower's kids into his
> service and worship and numerous scams.

In "Controversies" section, list of countries is quite long...

[en.wikipedia.org]

So what... So Hui Lang Zhang promotes "River of forgiveness"

[www.facebook.com]

Forgiveness? After deaths? No forgiveness. No mercy.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 22, 2022 04:30AM

Before the internet lies and scams could pass easier. Today you cannot so essily get away with it thanks to the Net.
I was thinking how I gave my money with so much happiness. Hard earned money swnt to SoI dor what damn project?
Rinsing butler’s dishes with Evian? I mean tbis goes beyond insanity.
The poor devotees are usually not earning much money. And the guru is supposed to live a simple life.
butler has truly built a kingdom on the back of some innocent souls who just wanted to get close to god.
I think that lying in the butler cult is as normal as chanting your rounds. You either have to lie or say it is a secret.
They feed you lies from the moment yo enter till the moment you leave.
It is sad actually that they cannot refer to their holy scripture, which states that truthfulness is a divine quality.
This guy is a narcissist himself and he has great insights.
This is about the holy narcissist. Pretty interesting.

[narcsite.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 22, 2022 06:06AM

A healthy dose of narcissism is almost needed to survive this jungle. And also to comfront those who want to play Alpha with us.
And most deal with psych, emotional issues. Some are much better at hiding it or ghey are so full of themselves they cannot see it.
The poor devotees have to give away all sense of self and become Betas so that a few alphas can dominate them.
They think they have advanced spiritually but they are still in the animalistic levels of who is alpha and who is not.
Full blown narcissists still prey upon you when they sense the boundaries are weak.
Noone should ever be stupid enough to think that another mortal is infallible or just good.
I have only met one human being that I trusted with all my heart.
I gave a much greater trust to butler and his minion and here we are.
The crime is to make people believe that any humans who can get polluted by their lower self, is pure.
When I was at SoI I made great progress and I thought that I was cured.
But few years ago when I went into a much deeper healing process, I unlocked the subconscious I guess or the stored abused and trauma.
And this was the result. Me losing it as all the pain from the past came unto the surface. And insanity took over.
Bhakti yoga may be great for those who do not carry much baggage. If you do, the supression can make it much worse.
And noone has the tools to truly help those who suffer from past trauma. Thye just tell you to chant more.
Yes, when you bliss out on the mantras and transcendental love, the past does not matter much. However the past is what has shaped us.
I am not saying I am a teacher snd guru. However I have descended into the hell of my own psyche and faced my inner demons. And unleasehd them onto others too unfortunately.
butler is not aware of his inner parasites so he is in no position to be a guru.
The day he is shown who he truly is, he would hide in shame and bow down to his follower in order to ask forgiveness.
In the past weeks I was shown so much about myself that I wanted to ask someone to shoot me. And I am rather sure I have not abused and used as many people as butler.
What protects most, is illusion and the lies they tell themselves.
Krishna cults are a bit like the social credit system that keeo you in check. Making sure you do not misuse your free will.
I think it is still a much better lifestyle than suffering from heavy addiction. But one must be ready to pay the price of giving away their will to another person.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: October 22, 2022 05:56PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that lying in the butler cult is as normal
> as chanting your rounds. You either have to lie or
> say it is a secret.

One topic is the lie that the "guru" uses the title "paramahamsa" according to the rules and that it was okay to give up sanyasa. As an example or a precedent, the marriage of Nityananda Prabhu. That he kind of gave up sanyasa. He couldn't give up sanyasa because he didn't have one, Nityananda Prabhu was an outcast, avadhuta. This was the reason for the initial refusal by the future father-in-law, Suryadasa (a brahman).

[www.thegaudiyatreasuresofbengal.com]

> It is sad actually that they cannot refer to their
> holy scripture, which states that truthfulness is
> a divine quality.

"stealing for Krishna is ok" - really? what about Bhagavad Gita and words:

"By performing their prescribed duties, King Janak and others attained perfection. You should also perform your duties to set an example for the good of the world. Whatever actions great persons perform, common people follow. Whatever standards they set, all the world pursues."

[www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org]

All would steal? What about production?

"BG 4.8: To protect the righteous, to annihilate the wicked, and to reestablish the principles of dharma I appear on this earth, age after age."

Narcisstic?

Somehow in the stories of his relationship with A.C. Bhaktivedanta, Swami forgot tot tell about selling the temple and sandal massage ...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2022 06:08PM by Culthusiast.

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