Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 21, 2021 01:36AM

My friend run forest run, I have great respect for you calling these bastards out.
You see that SoI cesspool with 20/20 vision and I agree that the time has come for it to stop.
Yes they better avoid this forum because it is like the kind of light that turns vampires into ashes.
They are better off hiding behind the excuse that demons are trying to destory the mission of their lord and masters.
They feel invincible and think that absolutely every single crap will pass in Krishna’s service.
I have gratefulness in my heart for the goodness, friendships and advancement I have made personally in my years with them.
They have also put up with my craziness and high maintainance with as much tolerance thatImhave put up with their non sense.
But no room for sentimentalities when we enter a just battle against false prophets.
If I do not aknowledge the positive, then I am not the person I aspire to be.
However they have earned everything that has been said in here.
Noone deserves the emotional and physical abuses that has been imposed upon them by this sick man.
I think that any religion can be followed in the spirit of love and non fanaticism.
Many people are not ready to be independent of religions and the gods of religions.
Imagine if K consciousness consisted of offering food, chanting on beads, kirtan,loving a blue or black boy, study of scripture alone.
None of the BS politics and the forced labor. Under the care of a TRUE sane leader
It would not be that bad.
If that brings some solace and peace to them, then be it. As I said it before, not all souls are on the same level of evolution.
I can assure you that I did not choose to be thrown into the supernatural and experience the science fiction of this reality.
I was thinking today that there is a huge focus on love in all scriptures. Love is the nectar that most people want to swim in. And yes love can move mountains.
However Jesus (fiction or reality) said:
“And the Truth shall set you free”. A verse bulter used in all his early lectures.
Truth is the greatest in my opinion. Because truth is the force that erradicates all the BS.
As my life has become one devoid of external love, I am learning to stand on the side of truth. And it is in this truth that I am finding my freedom.
The fact that some people still act so nasty on this path, is because it is a bandaid solution.
Not only people are not given space to heal their trauma and issues, but they are encouraged to supress them.
On top of that they are faced with new spiritual trauma and abuse that they must accept as mercy and going down like straws.
This is why they keep saying we are in a mental hospital. Because they truly are.
Deep healing is a messy business and it takes time and many methods to overcome.
I knew a young woman who was sexually abused by her father and she was an absolute nightmare to all of us.
It is because she obviously needed therapy to feal with such heavy past. Not just serving and chanting 24/7.
They are very ignorant of the human psyche.
All that count is to inject the happiness serum into your veins like some kind of transcendental heroin.
Butler is expert at mind control but the poor dude has no control over his own mind.
The greatest ennemy of man is FEAR. And the greatest achievement is to overcome that fear.
Crap happens wether we have the so called protection of Allah, Jesus, Krishna...
Even the mafia can give us protection.
The greatest state is to be so free of fear that we do not feel as though we need protection.
My life has been nothing short of the movie the Adjustment Bureau since I left the SoI. They wanted to change the course of my life by sending me back to that prison.
And like in the Truman show, nothing they threw at me could make me cease looking for the truth.
Butler and his group reminds me of these lines from Cristof in the Truman show:
“Listen to me, Truman. There's no more truth out there than there is in the world I created for you. Same lies. The same deceit. But in my world, you have nothing to fear. I know you better than you know yourself”.
Lol! They want to keep you in that fake construct where they constantly talk about a false sense of security.
Guess what?
NOBODY is secure in your lying, abusive, narcissistic, Germaphobic hypochondriac hands.
Thosw poor souls have been trapped in a bliss and factory fear.
And they call this made in china wailana factory spiritual life.
If you really want to know what goes on in the butler cult, here is a very short video that explains it:
I hope you will have the eyes to see it for what it is:

[m.youtube.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 21, 2021 03:08AM

The warfare in my own life is very real. My leaving the cult was very costly and still is.
I am not sure why I am so important to the forces behind this path, that they must put so much effort into playing these games.
Love and devotion cannot be forcefully taken by giving me a bliss crack pipe.
Then torture me on the side by putting me into the care of the nazi butler disciples. No sir! That toxic relation is for the stockholm syndrome patients.
In my own research, I have realized that everything in here is designed to stop us from uncovering our true potential.
The gods of religion mix love, fear, guilt, compassion... sake it all and serve it to us like a confusing cocktail.
Best imagine that there is an organic loving source on top of all these rules and regulations gods.
As above so below.
We have the upper and lower governments:
Govermenment: Govern the mind.
Those poor people have given the keys to their psyche to butler. He has entered and rearanged all the furniture and stolen some valuable items on his way out.
RIP followers. May your bliss make up for being remote controlled by a loving slave master.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 21, 2021 08:05AM

P.S just wanted to clarify that the video I linked from the clash of the titans is to explain how I see the SoI:
A love, fear, pain, bliss... emotion factory. All mixed together.
People are just emotions. The minds are only used in service. It is the right path imbalance.
Imagine if love, fear were a currency. They would make billions.
This clip kind of spoke to me in this way. In case it does not make sense.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 22, 2021 03:05AM

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I sent you the DM link to the kitchen list from
> hell.

Thank You. A subject for study.

> That a Sanyasi/guru apologizes is simply their
> humanity. The scriptures certainly do not dictate
> that they are ever flawed or wrong. Read the
> sastra. Nowhere is it stipulated that a guru is to
> admit fault for anything. If anything the fault
> always lays with the disciples. Even the ancients
> knew about image/branding/marketing. Once you
> admit flaw/mistake/fault—the bubble/illusion
> bursts.

I heard it. Sanyasi went to visit his student, who, as it turned out, broke the rules a bit because his wife likes onions, and if there is no onion at home, there will be no sex. He talked to him but finally said that he was really to blame for letting this student become a sex slave.

> There is no avoidance of three-fold suffering.

They use it as recruitment argument, and moment later offer perfect peacefull life with meditation. Perfect it is not, neither peacefull - looking on a very nervous woman devotee without initiation which has served faithfully for 25-30 years.

> Texts like Harinam Chintamani are mostly showing
> simple babaji life and promoting siddha pranali
> (grown men living together and whispering to each
> other which gopi they are).

Rather, when I read Harinama Cintamani, I was convinced for the first time that a mantra can give visions, can give insight into pastimes. Whispering was not of interest. Basically, I saw it as a separate nature anyway. Consciousness in material realities is one thing, in spiritual realities another. Separate identities. This could be an argument for progressive schizophrenia if someone experiences split vision. In any case, it was not shared everywhere. This is the secret of a relationship with God.


> As soon as one reads
> such text it is very apparent that we are either
> sorely mistaken that the holy name is powerful at
> face value and unequivocally admitting that there
> is WAY more to it all than just sitting around
> strumming guitars in kirtan to the tune of
> Brothers In Arms by Dire Straights. My tendency is
> to be even more forward and realistic and say it
> is mostly wishful thinking going on. But to each
> their own.

Generally, at first it is nice to sing with Dire Straits or Janis Joplin, but step by step it turns out that somehow this mood does not suit Asta kaliya lila etc .. Why does it not suit me and others do? Who knows.

> Regardless of your attempt to prove vimanas
> existed (they did not, 100%)

I am not proving that vimanas existed. There is very vague information that they were able to fly thanks to this or that. A mention, a dose but with full conviction. So it is some kind of inspiration, a field to look for. As it turns out, many phenomena are not explored. Worth of attention because they mension about flying machines many hypothetically hundreds, if not thousands, of years before the Wright brothers.


>
> backward and not helpful in any way. Modern
> Inidan's eating cow shit and piss because
> Danvatari said it cures headaches is what is the
> problem in our world. I once heard a devotee claim
> that if you bury ghee in the ground for 50 years
> it can cure AIDS. Eating 50-year-old ghee is more
> likely to give you AIDS than cure anything. You
> know what they say. It's your best thinking that
> got you here...

> If in the vast books of the veda it is still not
> clear how to make a fucking airplane or cure
> cancer it is a useless body of "knowledge" to
> modern man.

Ayurveda is worth of analysis. My friends they got a cancer diagnosis and a 2-year prospect. Today they live after 19 years with the help of an ayurvedist. Which, admittedly, is no longer alive.

Ayurveda is worth attention, for example, as I wrote earlier, to look with the eye of control theory, regulation theory, and especially multivariate systems. Why? Well, a few equations, Furier transforms, one two graphs and it is clear why there is no such freedom ... Well, you need to have such education, and then meet those who explain, for example, wave equations or show from scratch why the Furier transform makes sense drikinig tea with you. Black tea. I ate and drank.

> And never mind all you support for Vimanas, they
> are described as being made of flowers and Swans,
> not alloys.

Actually there were more to these types of vimanas:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote

It may denote any car or vehicle, especially a bier or a ship as well as a palace of an emperor, especially with seven stories.[1] In some Indian languages like Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, and Hindi, vimana or vimanam means "aircraft", for example in the town name Vimanapura (a suburb of Bangalore) and Vimannagar, a town in Pune. In another context, Vimana is a feature in Hindu temple architecture.

> There is a funny story of a man who drank
> colloidal silver for 20 years every day and
> eventually turned blue. There is also a rare
> disorder that results in blueish skin. Trust me,
> it's a not a good color on skin.
> [www.youtube.com]

I trained myself for skin problems. Colloidal Silver. In fact, the skin darkens. Other measures did not help. After 2 years of testing multiple combinations, I have a kit that soothes cracking, bleeding, itching, and hardening, and it's a proprietary kit.

As for the reference to the Vedic knowledge of the aseptic nature of cow dung, I found it myself at the age of 5 or 6. I was swimming in a beautiful river with my friends in the beautiful south outside the city. Beautiful trees grew, the water and sand were golden, the sky was blue and it was divine. It stuck in my memory because later nature in this place was devastated thanks to capitalism. Anyway, when I left this place of entertainment for the 5-6 year old, I was walking across the field where the cows were grazing. First I stepped on the edge of an open can or a broken bottle and cut my foot lengthwise by 5-6 centimeters. Then, bleeding in panic, I ran on and stuck my foot in the cow poop. The next fragments of memory, when I lie on the operating table or board, the light shines in my eyes and doctor pull apart the cut skin with his fingers. Then the movie broke off. I had a tetanus immunization. I didn't get sick. To this day, I have leftover stitches. What worked here? It is not known. But I remember that the day was beautiful.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2021 03:14AM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 22, 2021 03:07AM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “Listen to me, Truman. There's no more truth out
> there than there is in the world I created for
> you. Same lies. The same deceit. But in my world,
> you have nothing to fear. I know you better than
> you know yourself”.

Good comparison...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: October 22, 2021 02:29PM

I ate mushrooms from cow poop and experienced a shift in consciousness. Temporary. More mind-blowing than any chanting or lectures. will I do it again? Of course not. These things are not functional experiences, at least not for everyone.

Same with Krishna consciousness. Harinam Chintamani is a fictional story. We can all write fictional stories about the shifting of consciousness and ambiguous states of divine love etc etc etc. That's the beauty and limit of language. We can describe to others some ideas. That's it.

Ayurveda has some use. Naturally. I should hope so. Why invest so much energy into systematizing. But it has nothing to do with the Krishna religion, and simply to do with human ingenuity. But naturally, there is much misinformation and utter nonsense in Ayurveda. In science and medicine, there is rigorous tests used to prove efficacy. If something has no curative value it is abandoned. Cancer is not a single disorder. There are literally thousands of cancers and each organism will respond to different treatments. Of which there are many and many do not work for one cancer versus another based on affected body system etc. So to say that Ayurveda helped your friend live 19 years longer is meaningless. And certainly, nothing related to Krishna consciousness.

There may be alternate multiverses/states of consciousness and so on. For our purposes, we can hopefully agree and admit that such states are usually the result of aberration in the brain/mental disorder/disruption etc. If one can continue to function in such a state and tend to the affairs of life, then such states are useful, but sadly that is not the case. Hence we call such people mad-men and do not attempt to promote thier flawed logic/ideas/actions. It is utterly useless and against nature to promote a religious doctrine that promotes losing all composure and control and living in a state removed from the reality at hand.

Babjis living in the forest in an altered state of consciousness is not a goal in life. If it is, what purpose does it serve? Of what service are they to the average human, society, and this world? They live in an altered fantasy removed from the functions and realities of this world.

Anyway, what are we talking about? There is no such babajis. Have you met babajis in vrndaban? They all have cellphones. Any western babji is simply sitting on Facebook all day spewing political views and krishna memes. Lets be serious man. Harinam Chintamani captured my fancy as well, as did the Tattva Sandharbas and many other "esoteric" Vaishnava works. WHEN I WAS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THIS CULT.

That said, I understand and respect and can appreciate your continued attraction to the ideas promoted in these groups. They hold no water for me. Achman or otherwise.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 22, 2021 10:52PM

I seriously think that this whole thing is messed up as hell.
Those deities are not what they seem to be.
They watch a low life like butler ruin their reputation and make so many suffer.
For 40 god damn years and plus.
But they get on my back and try everything they can to turn me into ashes?
A person who has tried to be service to others and be righteous as much as possible.
I let you imagine the words that I have for them in my mouth.
Why not destroy butler? Why let that roach roam free and be treated like a demigod?
Because he is serving their agenda.
Free will? Lol! What a great lie.
Uncondotional love? Yes sure!
Time to wake up and point the finger at butler’s puppet masters.
No sir. I ain’t no JOB or any of those Stockholm syndrome devotees who crawl back to the thorn feet of butler.
So that he can throw them some prasadam or a flower.
A divine narcissistic and sadistic relatioship in exchange of some transcendental bliss?
I don’t think these deities ever loved me. They wanted me to be prisonner of the science of slavery so that I would never be able to decode their BS.
Bhaktivedanta said those who deny this path are killers of the soul.
Really? How many souls has butler killed spiritually?
Is spiritual life being a mindless, obedient, fearful, blissed out robot?
Ok in that case they have all reached perfection and the Vishnu airplane will take them home.
Imagine if your material dad told you that the only way back home is to go out there get used, abused, ridiculed, worked to death...
Imagine the that every single living entity here is a spirit soul. Even trees.
So who the heck did not mess up up there? Who did not get envious of the SUPREME?
Maybe only 2 people are left in krishna loka.
Seems as though we have all fallen one by one.
Mind blowing levels of brainwashinh. My hats off to team vedas!

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: October 23, 2021 03:45AM

For people already struggling with mental health issues or who have a history of trauma, such cults can be even more damaging, Which is really sad considering that it is such people who are most vulnerable and attracted to such groups. Inevitably they build their entire identity and life around the cult only to, naturally, have to face their shortcomings full head when they eventually arise, sooner or later.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: October 23, 2021 04:26AM

Anyone wanna go to a ayurveda course?: [www.ayurvedicliving.com]

[www.statecraft.co.in]

[skepticalinquirer.org]

Quote: Ayurveda originated in India and is still widely used there. In a list of longevity by country, India ranked 125th. That suggests that the “science of life” hasn’t done a very good job of keeping people alive. But if the Indians see it differently and want to rely on “ancient wisdom” instead of on modern science-based medicine, it’s their funeral (sometimes literally!). Deepak Chopra is the most prominent proponent of Ayurveda in the United States. He was trained in India; in my opinion, America would have been better off if he had stayed there...

[skepdic.com]

Quote: Meditation is also a significant therapy in Ayurveda. According to Kurt Butler (1992):

The beliefs and practices of Ayurvedic medicine fall into three categories: (1) some that are obvious, well established, and widely accepted by people who have never heard of Ayurveda [e.g., relax and don't overeat]; (2) a few that proper research may eventually prove valid and useful [herbal remedies may contain useful drugs, but their dangers and limitations often have not been scientifically investigated]; (3) absurd ideas, some of which are dangerous [e.g., that most disease and bad luck is due to demons, devils, and the influence of stars and planets; or that you should treat cataracts by brushing your teeth, scraping your tongue, spitting into a cup of water, and washing your eyes for a few minutes with this mixture]. (Wheeler)

[www.quickanddirtytips.com]

—————————————————

The issue is not that there are not some good aspects or facts in Ayurveda/hatha yoga etc. Of course, there is. The issue is that there is often little to no real science behind it. No measurable verification beyond hearsay. That's not a rational method/system. In the end this often leads to misinformation or complete nonsense ideas. Bhaktivedanta wrote a letter to one of his disciples claiming that salt and milk cause leprosy. Butler forbid his followers to give asthma medication to their asthmatic kids. I had an ayurvedic doctor look at my irises in Vrindavan and claim I had smoked pot, which I had never done in my life. I had a "Vedic" Jyotish astrologer tell me all sorts of bullshit that never happened in my past and never happened in my future as I got older. Not even close. yet my guru at the time recommended I see him. In all cases, I spent money on these clowns. Meanwhile, I had a pre-cancerous lesion on my nose that I went to a dermatologist about and they gave me a steroid cream that killed the cellular aberration. Science comrades. God gave us brains, let's do the ultimate service and offer the utmost praise to the almighty and use that shit!

Haribol. Oh yeah, and RUN.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 23, 2021 05:01AM

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ayurveda has some use. Naturally. I should hope
> so. Why invest so much energy into systematizing.
> But it has nothing to do with the Krishna
> religion, and simply to do with human ingenuity.
> But naturally, there is much misinformation and
> utter nonsense in Ayurveda. In science and
> medicine, there is rigorous tests used to prove
> efficacy. If something has no curative value it is
> abandoned.

There are also many scammers in the domain of natural medicine enthusiasts, including Ayurveda. Which of course is very dangerous, at least for the wallet.

But in modern medicine, or rather healthcare, there are also many false promises. Most chemotherapy ends with death or destruction of the body. Some of the doctors in my family have been convinced by me not to give the last infusion to a sick person. The head of the clinic said that a possible herbalist from the nearby town would give 2 years of life. The person lived for another 12 years. There are such cases.

The pharmaceutical industry has its own rules. A dead patient doesn't pay. A healthy patient does not pay. A chronically ill patient pays regularly. And that governs many aspects of treatment.

For example, 1st generation neuroleptics such as haloperidol caused akathisia, facial nerve paralysis, defecation problems, drug addiction such as drug craving, problems with eye accommodation, etc. etc.

What I did in my illness was the use of modern and unconventional medicine, as well as the simple principles of Ayurveda. Plus the Ayurvedic doctor, great effort in rehabilitation. I didn't trust anyone. I researched the proposals. I chose the dose myself and so on and so on.


> Cancer is not a single disorder. There
> are literally thousands of cancers and each
> organism will respond to different treatments. Of
> which there are many and many do not work for one
> cancer versus another based on affected body
> system etc. So to say that Ayurveda helped your
> friend live 19 years longer is meaningless. And
> certainly, nothing related to Krishna
> consciousness.

For them means much. Also their kids. Even everything can say.

> Babjis living in the forest in an altered state of
> consciousness is not a goal in life. If it is,
> what purpose does it serve? Of what service are
> they to the average human, society, and this
> world? They live in an altered fantasy removed
> from the functions and realities of this world.

Human society is more like animal. Cruelty etc. The domination of coterie, oligarchs, corporations, parties, mafia systems, etc. Nothing great.


> Anyway, what are we talking about? There is no
> such babajis. Have you met babajis in vrndaban?
> They all have cellphones. Any western babji is
> simply sitting on Facebook all day spewing
> political views and krishna memes. Lets be serious
> man. Harinam Chintamani captured my fancy as well,
> as did the Tattva Sandharbas and many other
> "esoteric" Vaishnava works. WHEN I WAS UNDER THE
> INFLUENCE OF THIS CULT.


Basically, from the things I had the opportunity to learn, you can find absurd behaviors in the category of e.g. security (handling of equipment). It is also astonishing, for example, forcing offerings (since according to the Bhagavad Gita, even a small thing should be sacrificed with love). Well, but priests in Catholicism also force sacrifices. At the sacraments. Somewhere at some stage, the institution has its headquarters, infrastructure and, as you wrote, it needs money. And then the divine "Somewhere two gather in My Name, I am there among them" disappears - because the church that needs money for electricity, water and a roof is gathered. So these are strange behaviors that are repulsive and different.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2021 05:11AM by DaWatcher.

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