I am not sure I mentioned this before. I stayed at an Ashram ages ago. The program was very full on. We also had to do Arotik at 5 AM.
The leader of the center was quite nice and non fanatical. The atmosphere was friendly except of course the few difficult personalies and the here and there clashes.
There was this young attractive woman in her mid 20’s. Very calm within, surrendered, serious, the right hand and pet of the leader of the center.
Shortly after I left, I heard she developed an eating diosrder and her psyche split. She ran away and her family, the police... were looking for her for days. She left the group for good and went back home.
She seemed so together but I guess she was given more than she could handle.
Another person I know stayed onsite for a few years. She was a superstar contributor. Literally busy 24/7 SERVING. Lived in rather austere situations.
When she returned and decided not to go back, she would still come around for a little while. She was fo sure dealing with a severe eating disorder. She was skin and bones. She also left SoI.
I think she is one of the most solid people I have ever seen in my life. And yet that lifestyle broke her. Of course these strong people always want t save face and never admit something or someone broke them.

> They are using Krishna and the Parampara the same
> way gangsters use a corrupt system to carry out
> their mission.
> We are lying for Krishna, dealing Hash for
> Krishna, laundering money for Krishna... No
> worries brothers and sisters. It is all used in
> service. No KARMA!

Well, in bhakti yoga process we have:

sraddha
sadhu-sanga
bhajana-kriya
anartha-nivritti
nistha
ruci
asakti
bhava
prema

Anarthas which are different from aparadha.

Oh, ok, yoga-nidra as some transformation of astanga? Well:

Yama : Universal morality
Niyama : Personal observances
Asanas : Body postures
Pranayama : Breathing exercises, and control of prana
Pratyahara : Control of the senses
Dharana : Concentration and cultivating inner perceptual awareness
Dhyana : Devotion, Meditation on the Divine
Samadhi : Union with the Divine

That would be...yama!

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not sure I mentioned this before. I stayed at
> an Ashram ages ago. The program was very full on.
> We also had to do Arotik at 5 AM.
> The leader of the center was quite nice and non
> fanatical. The atmosphere was friendly except of
> course the few difficult personalies and the here
> and there clashes.

Of course there were many good times and a good atmosphere. Madhava dasi perfectly organized the center in Cracow. Temple in the attic, nice atmosphere, little Gaudiya style. Discipline, altar, arati. People were very serious. Reading the scriptures regularly. Bhagavatam. It was good. She was exaggerating discipline outside of the curriculum, it's a fact - criticize for the sake of principle. But the good was of great value, and it is remembered for.

Of course - no calls from the Site.In those centers i visited. Never ever.

Or Warsaw, Tulsi Manjari dasi. Nice, enthusiastic, attractive. For public lectures - 100 or 200 people came. She spoke with such faith about reincarnation that people opened their mouths in amazement. Such strength and conviction that in a moment she would reincarnate herself in front of the audience ... Kirtans in the estate. Many blocks and the sound reached a nearby store. Then, unfortunately, negative letters came from the Site and something bad started coming in.

> There was this young attractive woman in her mid
> 20’s. Very calm within, surrendered, serious, the
> right hand and pet of the leader of the center.
> Shortly after I left, I heard she developed an
> eating diosrder and her psyche split. She ran away
> and her family, the police... were looking for her
> for days. She left the group for good and went
> back home.

There have been and are similar cases in Poland. Single devotees who have been painfully busy are the special victims. They chose loneliness, because they would not have sex, etc. However, it was more like redirecting passion into overwork than getting rid of the passion itself. As quoted here, the effect was bewildering. When a few of them lived together, they often quarreled. All nice, but together it's an explosive mixture. There was a funny story described here, when one of them - the owner of the apartment - was uncomfortable, so the others made a commission which decided that she should leave the apartment. There are also several cases of other women - uninitiated - lost their health in the hard service.

Fall and loss of consciousness in the bathroom, suicide, etc. I remember the beauty that, according to legend, the would-be lover was supposed to drive up in a Mercedes near meditation center, but she chose poverty and service to God. Nice soul.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2021 05:44AM by DaWatcher.

Dawatcher, I must say that there are also many things that are too comical. Last summer a friend of mine (ex butler follower) was telling me stories aboit her service as a laundry girl onsite The ridiculous stuff they had to do... I laughed so hard that I almost fell off the Sofa. She was laughing too.
Also the Giardia incident where all devotees had to be tested in Hawaii because one little boy got it.
How in Eastern Europe those who cook look like they are ready to enter the operating room.
How there is a separate table for offerings for the people who have hepatitis.
When and if you get a Tattoo you cannot be around butler for a few years.
But the story that wins the price for me is really far out. A girl was havimg some issues with a ghost (long story).
She went to another center to get away from the situation. They quarantined her for 2 weeks in case she had brought the ghost with her. Lol!
Talk about fearless devotees.
I know a surgeon and that person was so impressed when I washed my hands for 30 seconds, between the fingers... used the papertowel to close the faucet handle...
Never seen a non surgeon wash their hands with such expertise.
How can you possibly explain you learned this in your spiritual community?
We sure have many interesting stories. I cannot imagine landing in a different cult.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dawatcher, I must say that there are also many
> things that are too comical.

This too, look at body language, hand movement. I marked the moments. Compare:

[youtu.be]

and this:

[youtu.be]

"hug the plug"

And "where is heaven"

[youtu.be]

with this:

[youtu.be]

vision about island in the middle of the ocean somehow brings smile...

Johny is not good. Good enough. Not that good. Not magnificent.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2021 04:23PM by DaWatcher.

Hi Ian and everybody else. I am sorry if I have caused any chaos by joining the thread. My whole body and heart was charged with so much hate and anger for the way my life turned out to be after I left the cult. The Tsunami waves that
I have been braving for 12 years.
I have never felt as crazy as I did this past year in lockdown Loka.
I see now that I must focus on my own absolutley nightmarish life instead of throwing punches in the void.
Nothing we can do or say will ever change the dynamics of a 40 years old cult and its rotten sides. They will either go on or auto destruct.
I chose to not give a damn about them anymore. The hell with butler and his group. My heart aches for those who lost their lives to suicide. I have myself struggled with this for the past years.
The rest of them can keep drinking the Koolaid. I chose to save the tiny amount of energy left in me and let go of this stupid battle.
They have hurt me enough and now I keep hurting myself by thinking about those brainwashed souls.
I will make a conscious effort to forget them as much as possible.
Sorry again if I have taken the converstion into the wrong direction. My psyche is in overload mode. I should have never come on here in such a poor state.

Truth wins Wrote:

> Nothing we can do or say will ever change the
> dynamics of a 40 years old cult and its rotten
> sides. They will either go on or auto destruct.

After Butler and his wife both die, SoI will fizzle out in not much time. Once the head dies, then the body will also. This is my prediction.

Though, there will always be the diehards, the true believers who will try keep things going in Butler's name.

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth wins Wrote:
>
> > Nothing we can do or say will ever change the
> > dynamics of a 40 years old cult and its rotten
> > sides. They will either go on or auto destruct.
>
> After Butler and his wife both die, SoI will
> fizzle out in not much time. Once the head dies,
> then the body will also. This is my prediction.
>
> Though, there will always be the diehards, the
> true believers who will try keep things going in
> Butler's name.

Therefore, in a group where the official narrative says that the Guru is self-effulgent and not chosen, the practice shows otherwise. The guru is Chris Butler but Balakhilya das teaches. Transparent medium for transparent medium? Guru is self effulgent but they must, as Balakhilya das wishes, prepare the children for teaching. Hmm ... If none of them shine, then maybe let them shine with artificial glow ...

And, of course, the leader is missing. Siddha Bellord. A great candidate for a new leader, Guru. Succession of fathers and sons. Or maybe on the political side. Holy Tulsi of Hawaii. Holy Renewed Virgin of Hawaii.

Nobody made reference to the material about stress by Balakhiya das, so I will touch on the next aspects.

This time what religion, what perception of God, role and relationship.

Moment:

[youtu.be]


At this point, Balakhilya das speaks of a loving relationship with God pointing to the heart. The gesture is rather borrowed from Christianity, but it points to the heart with a closed hand. It's a bit of a confession. But the heart - feelings, or relationship with God with feeling - "madhurya".

But as the woman raises the subject of death, Balakhilya das raises his head and eyes to the sky. This time, God is in heaven. God has higher position in the heaven. He is the Supreme Judge. "Aiswarya". Not to mention that in Bible states that Godfather gave power of judging to His Son.

Another aspect - navigating the path. Balakhilya das takes a rather central position most of the time. At this point, he clearly turns towards the woman, even makes her movement difficult, which is uncomfortable for her:

[youtu.be]

Of course, there are more...



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2021 04:42AM by DaWatcher.

Next aspect: theory and reality. This is a lecture on stress. The material editor finally blankes the image. But too late. In the end, the stress theorist shakes the bottle stopper - this time nervously - but again:

[youtu.be]

The woman also seems to be uncomfortable during the interview. She hides her hands, doesn't know what to do with them. As if she was afraid that by any gesture she would offend the teacher, "a refuge of love and tolerance". At one point, she is scared. At the end, her face is gloomy. It is not serene. Why? She naturally withdraws, goes backwards. The situation was discomforting for her.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2021 02:30PM by DaWatcher.

Returning to Tulsi Gabbard. The cult stared at the pro-abortion democratically Tulsi was happy she spoke to the Prime Minister of India. I noticed that she made a gesture that was not very neat diplomatically and politically - she gave a copy of the Bhagavad Gita as a gift. First, Gita is the legacy of India, second, she is a woman. Funny was that she herself knew it badly. So it's a subtle display of arrogance. Then the question is whether this - arrogant attitude towards India - is confirmed anywhere.

This is a translation of the opinion of one of the experts on the US approach to India:

Quote

The aggressive policy of the USA did not help either, which, while officially looking for allies against China in the negotiations, shows that they expect vassals and cannot think flexibly.

Tulsi is just a puppet.

No longer contemplating and proving whether those activities are in the category of svarupa-siddha-bhakti, sangha-siddha-bhakti, aropa-siddha-bhakti, sakama-bhakti or saguna-bhakti. Or a karmic action mixed up with anartha / aparadha.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2021 06:45PM by DaWatcher.